typical Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 *****SIGH***** Why dont men *fight* more? It seems to me that women are constantly fighting and struggling to make a relationship work...always.... I dont understand where all the the burning passion has gone, Why the ardent desire to be truly connected, the yearning need to righthere with someone has totally died out....Where did the brutality, the stark hunger go? The struggle, the heat to stay, the will to want her to stay, the will to fight and hang on and make her see exactly why she belongs in your heart of hearts..... Why is it replaced with lackluster men who are indecisive and listless and restless and dull? Where did the fight go????? ***sigh*** It is all so disapointing. Or maybe it is just me.... Link to post Share on other sites
KittenMoon Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Don't worry, it's not just you. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I am reading an interesting book called "Fighting for your marriage" right now. Apparently, men are physiologically less able to handle emotional stress than women are. I suppose because women are all communicative and from an early age, the gender differences in communication are very apparent. Girls tend to talk things out, and explore their options and brainstorm a lot more. Boys tend to be very aware of the "rules of the game" and when presented with a conflict in their peer groups, they will resort to either redefining or reiterating the rules, while girls tend to talk things out with their peer groups and try to understand why their peers chose to do whatever it was that caued the conflict. As adults we do the same thing. So women tend to be the persuers in arguements between couples, while men seem to be more emotionally reticent. The reality is that they both deal with conflict differently, and having clear rules to the game of conflict is very necessary for both parties. I think the bottom line is that you should have to always be struggling or fighting to be in a relationship, right? I think I would have mentioned the same thing as you are, though, when I was with my exH. I felt like he was passionless. No spark. He was petrified of conflict, that was the explanation. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Aside from all the apparent and obvious, men and women process things differently and so forth, aside from all of this.....Are they just missing that will to want so fiercely as we are?? I cant really explain what I mean too clearly, but its all inside....All of this turmoil and bliss is lying dormant inside, just a lush minefield waiting to be tapped into.....I think one of the things I mean to say is this: Where are all the men that wont let you give up? Where are all the men that sense that you are retreating from them even if you cant sense it yet and take the corrective measures?? Where the F is the hot, sweaty passionate fight??? Why arent they blowing our minds with their fierceness?? Where is the unmistakeable ebb of destiny and awareness?? Why the F are they ALWAYS so listless???? Men are so weak....WTF... Where are the men who think it is worth it?? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Aside from all the apparent and obvious, men and women process things differently and so forth, aside from all of this.....Are they just missing that will to want so fiercely as we are?? Oh, I think they do, but we perceive the way that they express this desire differently than they do. We tend to dismiss the way men express emotion to the point that we think they don't do it at all. Where are all the men that wont let you give up? Where are all the men that sense that you are retreating from them even if you cant sense it yet and take the corrective measures?? Where the F is the hot, sweaty passionate fight??? Why arent they blowing our minds with their fierceness?? Where is the unmistakeable ebb of destiny and awareness?? Why the F are they ALWAYS so listless???? Men are so weak....WTF... Where are the men who think it is worth it?? I believe they are all currently incarcerated for stalking. I have an exlover who thinks like that. He broke down my door and tried to kill a male friend of mine. He hasn't laid eyes on me in over a year and still calls me, from prison, proclaiming his love. After experiencing that, I realized that wasn't what I wanted after all. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 After experiencing that, I realized that wasn't what I wanted after all. I have had relationships like these, and it wasnt what I wanted either..... What I am searching for is that complete and total mind f*** that blows my mind.....WITHOUT the violence. That hot destiny that cannot be ignored or replaced..... Men give up too easily... When I see them giving up, it pisses me off, because I think "well, what the hell else do you have going on right now, you may as well get involved in a tragic relationship, damn, live a little...its worth it...I promise." Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 I think it comes back to the fact that men cannot physiologically handle stress as well as women can. So they avoid those types of relationships because that makes them feel uncomfortable. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Perhaps then, you are right Otter.... However, it is all so awfully disappointing... Besides which, I eventually find a way to worm out of relationships as well, because ..well...firstly because THEY LET ME.....if they cant see what I am doing then its not worth it, and point is lost, and if they can see what I am doing and just let me do it, then I dont want them anyway... Maybe I constantly push limits, test boundaries, just to see how far they are willing to actually go....because I will go there with them, my mind has the potential to go pretty dark....most give up before it has actually begun....and let me go the minute I start wriggling to break free....I ALWAYS have an escape plan laid out.......Maybe I am just twisted, I dont know, but I am looking for that man that wont let me "escape" (not literally) from me and him...I dont know why I do this... Link to post Share on other sites
Art_Critic Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Why is it replaced with lackluster men who are indecisive and listless and restless and dull? Where did the fight go????? funny I have said the same thing about women.. I have always been a fighter.. In my marriage I showed myself that I was capable of sticking around and working thru it all..Even thought the marriage was doomed to fail at least I tried.. Now my relationships that I have had since the divorce I have seen the same lack of commitment in those relationships as well.. but from the women I think it comes down to commitment.. most relationshjips have at least one person in them that has NO commitment to trying to make things work.. hence all the breakups Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 In my marriage I showed myself that I was capable of sticking around and working thru it all.. But were you just going through the motions??? Because I am keen to that one, the motions without emotions.... most relationshjips have at least one person in them that has NO commitment to trying to make things work.. But why the f*** not?? I mean, what do they really have to lose?? DAMN. Why wouldnt you want to be embroiled in a hot steamy relationship were NEITHER gives up, no matter what?? My quest is most likely fruitless, but it helps to share. Thanks to all of you that read me! Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Perhaps then, you are right Otter.... However, it is all so awfully disappointing... Besides which, I eventually find a way to worm out of relationships as well, because ..well...firstly because THEY LET ME.....if they cant see what I am doing then its not worth it, and point is lost, and if they can see what I am doing and just let me do it, then I dont want them anyway... Maybe I constantly push limits, test boundaries, just to see how far they are willing to actually go....because I will go there with them, my mind has the potential to go pretty dark....most give up before it has actually begun....and let me go the minute I start wriggling to break free....I ALWAYS have an escape plan laid out.......Maybe I am just twisted, I dont know, but I am looking for that man that wont let me "escape" (not literally) from me and him...I dont know why I do this... Can I ask a question? How does someone "let" someone else do something? Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 How does someone "let" someone else do something? As you wish...... Here is what I meant, re-worded: They turn a blind eye to what I am doing... Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 As you wish...... Here is what I meant, re-worded: They turn a blind eye to what I am doing... I am not trying to make you upset, typical. But this is flawed logic. I usually assume that people I'm involved with are mature enough to make decisions for themselves, and to clearly communicate a need rather than hinting or insinuating which increases the number of filters between the idea being communicated and the idea being processed by the listener. Like, are they supposed to perceive your actions, interpret them appropriately, and then force you to sit down and communicate your needs? Or force you to behave differently? I'm not trying to upset you, I'm just not really understanding what you want. A fight? Where things may escalate out of control? Communication? Where you talk it out and set clear goals and boundaries? Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Okay..... Everything I mentioned was meant to be rather non literal....by *fighting* I dont mean I want him to beat the breath out of me, I meant I want him to try just as hard, if not harder than I do to make it work. Doesnt he care? Isnt it worth it to him? Do they all have to be so lackluster?? The words I used was for the feeling I meant..its hard to explain. I am sure many of us has witnessed a child crying. Instinct tells us that it either wants its mother, to be held, to be fed, or changed. It would be wonderous if the "insinct" part could also be a part of telling them clearly and effectively what we want. Which I have done. But I can only tell them so much. Otherwise it is like I am in a relationship by myself....At some point, the instinct has got to kick in....damn... I just want a man that doesnt back down and doesnt allow me to back down either, because I am scared, nervous, and allowing my past to rule my future.....(which I have done subconciously, NEVER intentionally) Scared and nervous are instinctual emotions....They are easy to identify, even if they are masqueraded with anger. I just want a man to care enough and be raw enough to recognize the obvious...WTF is so hard about that???? Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 I'm not trying to upset you Oh, but arent you??? Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Scared and nervous are instinctual emotions....They are easy to identify, even if they are masqueraded with anger. I just want a man to care enough and be raw enough to recognize the obvious...WTF is so hard about that???? But people express those very differently. My Mom is scared and nervous about my Dad's surgery, and she is being a HUGE BITCH. I hate being around her and avoid her when she's like this. I guess in a way that is abandoning her in her time of need, but I cannot handle the bitchiness. When I get scared and nervous, I get quiet. Sometimes, I cry. But those could signal different mood states, too. I don't understand this part: I just want a man that doesnt back down and doesnt allow me to back down either, because I am scared, nervous, and allowing my past to rule my future.....( What would "not allowing you to back down" entail? I'm trying to not back down right now. I want you to clarify for yourself what it is you want, exactly. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 But people express those very differently. My Mom is scared and nervous about my Dad's surgery, and she is being a HUGE BITCH. I hate being around her and avoid her when she's like this But instinct told you that she is scared and nervous and is covering it up with bitchiness. Which you avoid. I'm trying to not back down right now. EXACTLY. That is what I meant. Dont run. Dont avoid. DONT ABANDON because you feel uncomfortable confronting those emotions......blow my mind, live through it with me, intoxicate me damn it.....that is what I mean, Otter. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Oh, but arent you??? No, I'm not. And I resent the fact that you think that. Why the f*** would I waste my time on a thread, asking questions, with genuine curiosity, unless I was interested and concerned? Especially since my Dad is in f***ing surgery today and might f***ing die. But hey, suit yourself. I will no longer contribute to this thread. I don't want to upset you and obviously, I am. Later. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 No, I'm not. And I resent the fact that you think that. Why the f*** would I waste my time on a thread, asking questions, with genuine curiosity, unless I was interested and concerned? Especially since my Dad is in f***ing surgery today and might f***ing die. But hey, suit yourself. I will no longer contribute to this thread. I don't want to upset you and obviously, I am. And there it is.....the raw beauty of emotion. But you left too soon. THis is the point I was trying to make......People leave too soon. Any little thing is liable to make them run.....A simple inquisition has led you to leave my thread.... Especially since my Dad is in f***ing surgery today and might f***ing die. Your scared and nervous. You are becoming hostile. If you will start a thread about your father and your fears, I will not abandon it. Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 And there it is.....the raw beauty of emotion. But you left too soon. THis is the point I was trying to make......People leave too soon. Any little thing is liable to make them run.....A simple inquisition has led you to leave my thread.... What you think of as a "little thing" is not a "little thing" to everyone. Different people have different values. They communicate differently and can handle different levels of emotional stress and that should be OK! Your scared and nervous. You are becoming hostile. If you will start a thread about your father and your fears, I will not abandon it. I already started a thread about 2 weeks ago that is still up and running, thanks. But what you said wasn't a simple inquisition. It was an accusation, "OH, but aren't you trying to piss me off, otter?" How is that neutral? f*** that s***, dude. If someone is trying to be nice and offer support and you turn around and say something accusatory, who WOULD stay around to take that? I don't hang out with my Mom when she gets bitchy because she's scared and nervous because she says horrible things like, "I"m writing you out of my will" or "I never wanted you to be born in the first place." Ok, Mother Theresa might be able to handle that, but IMO scared and nervous is not an excuse to accuse people who are trying to be supportive, of hurting you or whatever. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 What you think of as a "little thing" is not a "little thing" to everyone. Point taken. I do not think anyone should stay around and be a glutton for abuse.......but to try a little harder to get to the root of the matter instead of up and leaving...which is clearly the easiest way out. People naturally flucuate towards the easiest way out. Through talking to you about this matter, I have also figured out that I just want a man that doesnt take the easiest way out. Because I dont. Why waste my time with someone that isnt as fierce, which I understand can be exhausting but well worth it in the end......I dont make friends/lovers easily...but when I do, it is true, deep and FOREVER, a concept that I understand well... But what you said wasn't a simple inquisition. It was an accusation, "OH, but aren't you trying to piss me off, otter?" How is that neutral? It wasnt neutral. It was an attempt to evoke emotion, to gauge your reaction. In no way did I assume you didnt care since it is clear that you have been with this thread from the time it has opened. Otter, it is clear I have offended you...please disregard that comment. It was an attempt to see how close to the surface you were in life. You are a passionate one. Link to post Share on other sites
riobikini Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 Ok, Typical, I believe you are talking about that tall, good-looking guy, with the all the smooth words flowing from underneath his manicured moustache, who seemed to always dress appropriately to every situation (the armour for the big battle, the waistcoat for the duel, that really neat safari jacket for the hunt in Africa) -and turn up over and over again, in all the lead roles in film in the days when the silver screen was still quite -er- silver. He was the one who, when he was in love with a girl, went running down the busy street with oncoming traffic both ways, chasing after the taxi she was riding away in yelling after her to "Come back! I love you! I need you!" He was the one who also came to rescue her after she was captured by a little-known jungle tribe whose nearly-naked leader planned to either sacrifice her to the gods, or make her bear his children, -all 12 of them,...in time. He turned up again to woo and rescue her from an uncaring, rather abusive, cold, and aging (but verrrry wealthy) husband whom he somehow managed to kill in a duel to the death over a gentleman's agreement that went haywire, somewhere, somehow, in the deal. God, Typical, -I fell in love with that same guy when I was a very young girl, and tried to find him a time or two, but wound up with someone else (my second husband) who was so much better than that perfect guy with the moustache who had to kill people just to get to me. (Smile) However, I do understand your point about wanting to see a few die-hard romantics out there who can throw themselves right into the middle of peril, find it necessary to fight for their girl, and do almost anything for love, no matter how silly, humiliating, or dangerous. In reality, though, I wouldn't want them raising my children. So much for those wonderful romantic silver-screen heroes. (Smile) -Rio Link to post Share on other sites
blind_otter Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 You are a passionate one. Hell yeah I am. Can you imagein being involved with me? Exhausting. Link to post Share on other sites
Author typical Posted May 2, 2006 Author Share Posted May 2, 2006 Hell yeah I am. Can you imagein being involved with me? Exhausting. Exactly. As am I. Is there something so wrong about needing that same exact thing from the one I have desired?? Not quite the way riobikini has described because I said RAW and PASSIONATE and just below the surface, not pathetic and tacky....unless of course he looks like Clark Gable and then I could work with it/him... Maybe I think older than my 20 someodd years on this earth, but I want passion, revenge, lust, heat, hot, heavy, raw and fierce...not some cold, lifeless dull fish who asks me what size my chest is in a prepubescent cracked voice and smelling like urine and semen. I want my ardor DAMMIT... Link to post Share on other sites
riobikini Posted May 2, 2006 Share Posted May 2, 2006 re: " I said RAW and PASSIONATE and just below the surface, not pathetic and tacky...." Antonio Banderas? Works for me, too. And now I'm trying to think of others who might fit that mold. -Rio Link to post Share on other sites
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