It makes sense now!

[JadeStar]

I was thinking of posting this in the rants section but thought I might get more replies here. Guess i'm a little down today. So here it goes.

 

It makes sense now why my husband is unappreciative of the material things I have gotten him. Some of you probably have read my posts in the past about him taking all the sh*t back I have gotten him for b-days, Christmas etc. With alot of thought about the issues we have had in the past few years, makes sense that he has been/still unappreciative of the relationship in general as a whole.

 

So its not only that he is not greatful for the materail things that have been given to him, but he acts that way with our relationship. Its been like this for years, and why I never saw it before now I have no clue. I sometimes wonder if it stems from childhood? He has 2 older sisters and he was the only boy. He was given most of whatever he wanted. I was an only child and you wouldn't believe the people who always assume that because I was an only child that I was spoiled or got whatever I wanted. Thats so far from the truth. My parents taught me to work for or earn what we get in life.Especailly the material things. That life is not a hand out. I appreciate anything anyone has ever given me material wise or not. I aprreciate people in general.

 

The relationship between his parents wasn't good growing up. Kids learn what they see/hear. Its possible I guess he felt either his mother or father or maybe both didn't resepct or appreciatie the other, so maybe thats how he perceives relationships, not sure. This is a subject we have talked about before. So he knows how I feel, and he knows that hes not appreciative. He has told me befire he was a "sorry, forgetful, unappreciative, lazy a**h***!" Not sure if he said that as the truth or if he wanted a pity party from me and for me to say, "Oh but hunny thats not so." I never corrected him on it. I feel bad but at the same time, it is true.

 

I guess I wonder since he knows this, why it is he wont change his ways? Why is it some people know what they need/should do, but choose not too? Laziness? It doesn't mean that much to them? Grant it, he didn't have the best role models growing up, but I have often felt I was a good teacher, by telling him and showing him the things I felt needed to happen in the relationship. Even counselors have told him some suggestions, but to no avail, he doesn't do anything to change some things. Any thoughts?

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[Sami_D]

Just a quick thought on reading your post.

 

It made me think of this 'Love Languages' thing. I did a quick Google on it, and this was the first site I came up with. I'm not sure whether it's the only one out there on this:

 

http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/

 

1. Words of Affirmation

2. Receiving Gifts

3. Quality Time

4. Acts of Service

5. Physical Touch

 

Anyway, the essence is that not everyone values particular expressions of love in the same way. So learning about your and your SOs feelings and needs in this area might be beneficial..? Just a thought. Best of luck.

[JadeStar]

Just a quick thought on reading your post.

 

It made me think of this 'Love Languages' thing. I did a quick Google on it, and this was the first site I came up with. I'm not sure whether it's the only one out there on this:

 

http://www.fivelovelanguages.com/

 

1. Words of Affirmation

2. Receiving Gifts

3. Quality Time

4. Acts of Service

5. Physical Touch

 

Anyway, the essence is that not everyone values particular expressions of love in the same way. So learning about your and your SOs feelings and needs in this area might be beneficial..? Just a thought. Best of luck.

 

 

You know I'm glad you posted about that book. I have heard about that, and been meaning to pick that book up. I like to read, but doubt hubby will read it. But we shall see.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[lilmoma1973]

Yeah and there is another book that is good as well as the five love languages.. Love is a Decision by Gary Smalley and excellent book as well!! You should go on marriage builders.com excellent site for marriages. Did you say you went to counseling ? Those books help you understand what his needs are as well as your needs .. Hope this helps you.

[blind_otter]

Jade - change is terrifying, to the point that some people consciously choose not to do it.

 

You get into a groove that is comfortable only because it is familiar. TO change involves breaking down your whole worldview and the way you interact with yourself and others. That is a huge amount of work. You know that.

 

ANd ultimately, if the impulse doesn't come from him, he never will change. I had familiar members literally exhaust themselves trying to help me. Exlovers who gave so much of themselves to make me see what i was doing to them and to myself.

 

I had to recognize it myself before anything happened. You know this, I think.

[JadeStar]

Jade - change is terrifying, to the point that some people consciously choose not to do it.

 

You get into a groove that is comfortable only because it is familiar. TO change involves breaking down your whole worldview and the way you interact with yourself and others. That is a huge amount of work. You know that.

 

ANd ultimately, if the impulse doesn't come from him, he never will change. I had familiar members literally exhaust themselves trying to help me. Exlovers who gave so much of themselves to make me see what i was doing to them and to myself.

 

I had to recognize it myself before anything happened. You know this, I think.

 

 

 

This is so true blind. I have exhausted myself in trying to figure out why it is he WONT change some of the things he knows nees to be changed. You know, a friend used to say that its one thing if a person doesn't know or was never communicated to them what the problem is but when you have a person or spouse that has been showed, told, communicated in some way to the other whats going on, and the other person agrees that this needs to be done/tried/changed etc, and still doesn't thats a whole nother story. I never really understood why someone would know things that needed to be done but just wouldn't do it for whatever reason. I have heard people say, once someone sees what needs/should be done and has been shown, its not really because they don't know how, it becomes a choice, they either want to or they don't. I used to think we hubby it was becasue he didn't have that growing up, and after me telling him/showing him for years, I now think its possible its a choice, he chooses not to for whatever reason.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[TUDOR]

Jade I think there is a big factor in relationship habits that we inherit from our parents. Some people learn from them what to do and what is acceptable others learn what not to do and try to not to be like their parents. I have been working to undue many of the bad habits that my wife's parents led her to believe were acceptable. She has a big habit of ignoring issues and just not talking about them because in her family confrontation was a bad thing so they chose to not talk about a great many things. There were many taboo topics that were just not acceptable to talk about in her family.

 

Well I am not ok with that. I believe in talking about everything and keeping things out in front of you so that that they don't sneak up on you or boil up inside because they weren't dealt with. And yes laziness is a factor in it to because those that are not accustom to doing even the smallest things in a relationship can feel put out by feeling they have to do all this stuff their parents never did. Keep talking, keep working and try your best to be patient. Undoing one's habits is a time consuming task and will not happen over night. Reward him when you notice him going out his way to make a change even if it is just a thank you. Hang in there and keep working at it.

[JadeStar]

Thanks Tudor. Yes me and hubby come from different backgrounds as well. He came from a family where things weren't delt with. They were swept under the rug and people turned the other cheek. I come from a family where we did deal with things, maybe not always the right or proper way, and was a work in progress trying to learn to deal in a effective manner. I understand that childhood things can play a role in our adult relationships. I 'm not saying I'm giving up or anything but yes it can wear a body down sometimes. I just feel after 13 years, he might would want to do/try to at least try to change some things.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[TUDOR]

I just feel after 13 years, he might would want to do/try to at least try to change some things.

 

Jade

 

This is why your task of change will be even harder. For 13 years he was allowed not to change. To him it may appear you are asking for all these changes out of the blue and that for the last 13 years what he was doing was ok but now it suddenly isn't. I think you know he is aware that some things do requre some change but a 13 year old habit is not easy to undue. Just help him understand that you were never ok with with some of his habits but rather chose to give him the chance to change on his own. After 13 years you realize he won't do it on his own and now you are stepping in to help him for the sake of both your happiness and your marriage.

[Sami_D]

JadeStar... I don't know anything about your story or your situation. I'm just wondering - is your husband lazy and unappreciative of you in other ways..? Or is it just that you're focusing on this gift-giving thing as important because it's one of the ways you like to show love (and would therefore like to see the gifts appreciated), while at the same time your H doesn't attach much importance to gifts, and he wonders why you're making such a fuss..?

 

This is the point of the 'love languages' idea. I'm just going to snip and rearrange a few things from your OP that may (or may not!) illustrate what I mean. Apologies if I'm off the mark... I appreciate that there might be a WHOLE lot of other things you're concerned about.

 

my husband is unappreciative of the material things I have gotten him...he is not greatful for the material things that have been given to him.

 

The relationship between his parents wasn't good growing up. [but] He was given most of whatever he wanted [materially]

 

My parents taught me to work for or earn what we get in life. Especially the material things. That life is not a hand out. I appreciate anything anyone has ever given me material wise or not.

 

My thought here is that you appreciate and see material gifts as a symbol of love and caring (and value), and have been taught to appreciate them as such.

 

Your husband on the other hand has another view of material gifts. He was given so much in material terms while he was a child, and yet grew up with parents who were unhappy with eachother (and presumably he was unhappy as a result of that). He therefore does not share your view of material gifts.

 

He doesn't attach value to them. That doesn't (necessarily) mean he doesn't attach any value to you - or that he doesn't love you. It's just that he attaches more value to other demonstrations of love.

 

Does that make any sense..?

[Becoming]

Jade--It was about year 13 in our marriage when I went out one day, bought a mattress and set up a bed in another room. (You can do this relatively inexpensively). When I was cheerily making it up with linens I liked my husband came in perplexed and flummoxed. I kindly and gently told him that I no longer felt good about being married to him and was starting the process of moving away from him. I reminded him of all the things that I had been saying I needed from him, of him saying he would change only to make a half-hearted effort for about two weeks only to fall back in old neglectful habits, and that I was sorry I had lived accepting his behavior for so long that he thought this was OK. Things had to change because I no longer wanted to be close to him, so I needed my own space.

 

When things changed, I praised. I moved back into the bedroom. He likes me to sleep with him, not just have sex. (Sex continued during this time because I wanted it.) I had to physically make it clear that we weren't going to do this marriage on his terms/needs alone because he just didn't hear my words. When he lapsed and got lazy, I went to my own place and physically withdrew from him. It sounds pretty childish, but my husband is the master passive aggressive person. He says one thing, does another. He pouted and played power games with me that got to be rather funny. I stuck to my guns. He's finally figured out that if something's not good for me, it ain't gonna be good for him.

 

Take your power back and read up on dog training. Hate to say it, but the punishment/reward system is all some people understand.

[JadeStar]

"Is your husband lazy and unappreciative of you in other ways?"

 

 

Sami yes, that was really the whole point of my post. I was using the material things as an example. But hes like this with almost everything. The relationship in general and materail things.

 

As far as material things, he has taken back just about everything I have ever given him. Even things he wanted/asked for. Not once have I ever seen where he got something from another that he took back etc, just the things I get.

 

He has never really been appreciative of me in the relationship either not just with material things, and I was just thinking maybe this all ties in together.

 

 

 

Jade

[lilmoma1973]

Jade--It was about year 13 in our marriage when I went out one day, bought a mattress and set up a bed in another room. (You can do this relatively inexpensively). When I was cheerily making it up with linens I liked my husband came in perplexed and flummoxed. I kindly and gently told him that I no longer felt good about being married to him and was starting the process of moving away from him. I reminded him of all the things that I had been saying I needed from him, of him saying he would change only to make a half-hearted effort for about two weeks only to fall back in old neglectful habits, and that I was sorry I had lived accepting his behavior for so long that he thought this was OK. Things had to change because I no longer wanted to be close to him, so I needed my own space.

 

When things changed, I praised. I moved back into the bedroom. He likes me to sleep with him, not just have sex. (Sex continued during this time because I wanted it.) I had to physically make it clear that we weren't going to do this marriage on his terms/needs alone because he just didn't hear my words. When he lapsed and got lazy, I went to my own place and physically withdrew from him. It sounds pretty childish, but my husband is the master passive aggressive person. He says one thing, does another. He pouted and played power games with me that got to be rather funny. I stuck to my guns. He's finally figured out that if something's not good for me, it ain't gonna be good for him.

 

Take your power back and read up on dog training. Hate to say it, but the punishment/reward system is all some people understand.

 

 

Interesting Becoming never looked at it like that!! So i am to train my h like a dog ..Interesting concept and will keep it in mind. I notice that my h don't like me having the upper hand in an argument we have...

[JadeStar]

Jade--It was about year 13 in our marriage when I went out one day, bought a mattress and set up a bed in another room. (You can do this relatively inexpensively). When I was cheerily making it up with linens I liked my husband came in perplexed and flummoxed. I kindly and gently told him that I no longer felt good about being married to him and was starting the process of moving away from him. I reminded him of all the things that I had been saying I needed from him, of him saying he would change only to make a half-hearted effort for about two weeks only to fall back in old neglectful habits, and that I was sorry I had lived accepting his behavior for so long that he thought this was OK. Things had to change because I no longer wanted to be close to him, so I needed my own space.

 

When things changed, I praised. I moved back into the bedroom. He likes me to sleep with him, not just have sex. (Sex continued during this time because I wanted it.) I had to physically make it clear that we weren't going to do this marriage on his terms/needs alone because he just didn't hear my words. When he lapsed and got lazy, I went to my own place and physically withdrew from him. It sounds pretty childish, but my husband is the master passive aggressive person. He says one thing, does another. He pouted and played power games with me that got to be rather funny. I stuck to my guns. He's finally figured out that if something's not good for me, it ain't gonna be good for him.

 

Take your power back and read up on dog training. Hate to say it, but the punishment/reward system is all some people understand.

 

 

 

becoming, this sounds alot like my situation. Especailly the passive agressive part with my husband. Whenever anything happens like if I get upset and have had it and tell him what I think of feel about whats going on, he will resort to pouting and mopeing. I love him but sheesh that gets on my nerves so bad! He will walk around the house like a 3 year old child not a 35 year old man. I feel like for 13 years I have not been heard in anything I have said or tried to get him to see/do. Its like it falls on def ears.

 

 

 

 

Jade

[blind_otter]

I just don't think it's necessarily laziness.

 

I was accused of that, which made me that much angrier because it's like a herculian effort for me sometimes. When you don't learn how to express and accept love normally as a young child, it is extremely difficult as an adult.

 

But again, regardless of your effort, it's HIS that matters. The impulse to change CANNOT come from you. It must come from him.

[JadeStar]

I just don't think it's necessarily laziness.

 

I was accused of that, which made me that much angrier because it's like a herculian effort for me sometimes. When you don't learn how to express and accept love normally as a young child, it is extremely difficult as an adult.

 

But again, regardless of your effort, it's HIS that matters. The impulse to change CANNOT come from you. It must come from him.

 

 

True blind. He was the one that called himself lazy. I know him willing to change has to come from him, but after 13 years I think its still possible, but maybe not probable.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[Outcast]

I never really understood why someone would know things that needed to be done but just wouldn't do it for whatever reason

 

It happens all the time. Who exercises as much as they ought? Who only eats healthy foods? Habits become deeply ingrained and the ones learned in childhood are the hardest to break. It's so easy to see how easy it would be for someone else to change, but look at your own bad habits and see how easy it's been for you to change any of them. I'll bet there are a bunch you have been working on for years.

 

It's too bad that people marry people and then want to remake them. If you married an unappreciative guy, it was a mistake to think that would change and unfortunate that you're disappointed that it hasn't.

 

In the end, it's not about you. It's not that 'he doesn't care enough to change' and if you choose to believe that, you only make yourself unhappy. He's in a lifetime rut and, as otter said, it's hellish hard to change a lifetime's habits.

 

I bet if someone were to ask him if he appreciated you, his answer would be something like 'well of course I do - I support her, don't I?' or 'if I didn't appreciate her, I wouldn't be living there'. Much of love is about understanding where someone's 'coming from' and making allowances for that, IMHO.

[blind_otter]

True blind. He was the one that called himself lazy. I know him willing to change has to come from him, but after 13 years I think its still possible, but maybe not probable.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

Well, here's the thing -- how can someone resist something that is so essential to their marriage, their personal well-being and satisfaction with life itself -- just because they're lazy?!

 

That's like pathological laziness. I mean, really. Maybe he's depressed....

 

I was thinking that because, depression manifests itself differently in men, than it does in women. And if someone is so depressed that they don't get out of bed to eat or bathe or anything, is that called laziness? Can you yell at a lazy depressed person until they get better? Or beg or plead or coax them?

[JadeStar]

True Outcast and I never said I didn't have things/habits in such as well. I do, and have worked on them. We all have room for improvements within our selves and relationships. Its one thing though for a person to try and put forth the effort to change etc. and quite another when others don't, for whatever reason.

 

I remember my counselor telling me once before, after all has been tried, and theres still no change, there comes a time when either someone accepts it for whatever it is or maybe move on. And while I feel there are times I have accepted things, it can still be hard sometimes. Maybe I do need to rethink things. Thanks.

 

 

 

 

 

Jade

[alphamale]

I guess I wonder since he knows this, why it is he wont change his ways? Why is it some people know what they need/should do, but choose not too?

Once an individual's personality/habits are established it is quite hard to change or modify them.

[Becoming]

My husband will tell you he was flat-out lazy about marriage. Did nothing for the relationship. Never thought he had to. He was a "I married you, didn't I?" kind of guy. This is what kind of marriage his parents had, so this is what he thought was normal. He never thought about relationships; they just were. (Which means they were women's work he never saw.)

 

I, on the other hand, came from a toxic family and really wanted the love he showered on me when we were dating to continue to some extent. It quit altogether. And I was upset. Then he was upset that I was upset and made the bad marriage about me being upset, not about his marital laziness.

 

We spent years locked in a power struggle over whose view of what our marriage was going to look like would prevail. Since mine was egalitarian, his was one of calm nothingness, I wasn't giving up on mine. I couldn't. I simply didn't want his marriage.

 

So I told him he won: we could do the marriage his way, with peaceful non-intimacy, only sex. And I quit. I was simply biding my time until the children left home, focusing on myself and my career. We moved into a big house, and I basically moved into the guest room. I quit fighting, I quit caring. We were roommates with benefits.

 

When I was no longer available to do the marriage, he caught a clue that HE had to do something if he wanted the marriage to continue.

 

And he did. After 20 years, he finally started to really change, not in the sense that he compromised who he is, but in the sense that he became a flexible compromising human being in real relationship with another.

 

All of this is to say, that it takes some folks longer than others to get it and that change is always happening. But the change will probably have to come from you and how you're handling the situation because your actions are the only ones you can control. When you change your response, things do change.