Jump to content

How would you react if i told you that...to a certain degree I was afraid of women?


Recommended Posts

Not so much in terms of strength no no, I mean in terms of how much leeway society tends to give them. it's their word against mine and I'm convinced 9 times out of 10 society will believe the woman over me

 

Feminism as a concept is something i have no issue with. Women want equality, women want equal chances, women want the opportunity to prove that they are just as capable as their male counterparts. This i have no issue with as personally the only woman I would ever marry is one willing to watch my 6 in a fight, rather then one who sits back and waits to be rescued... BUT!

 

I fear that we are veering away from equality and more towards normalization. The notion that women are inherently NOT equal to men and the only way for them to be equal is for there to be special laws and regulations to even the playing field... which in my opinion isn't what feminism is about

 

This is why i feel #metoo is a double edged sword. Yes, women coming forth about what they been through is a good thing, and if the man is guilty of the crimes of which he is accused Lock him away.

 

But then there's the flip-side, the side where now we got men too afraid to interact with their female coworkers out of fear that they will say something wrong by accident and the female in question will overreact or take it out of context , or even worse blatantly lie just to get attention or spite the man in question, and honestly

 

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/12/me-too-american-men-scared-women-criminalize-fear

 

Maybe fear is exactly what a lot of women want....

 

My point is, I don't think it's healthy for either side to have to work in an environment where you need to constantly worry about what i feel are things so very trivial. Again if someone does sexually harass someone at work fine throw him in jail. But is it really a positive when someone can get in trouble for just SAYING the wrong thing to the wrong person?

 

I hate it....i hate thinking that the slightest slip of the tongue could ruin my life and get me arrested. I don't know who to talk to, who i can trust. Who will take things with stride and who will just overreact....I really don't know what to think anymore.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Strange.

 

What industry do you work in? Why are you so concerned that a conversation at work could be taken the wrong way?

 

While I realize that I am a woman, and my experience may not be the norm but… I have never experienced in appropriate behavior at work, and I have never been aware of anyone reprimanded at work for inappropriate behavior. I work in small law offices, so I am sure that plays a part of it but….

 

Are you aware of any men being reprimanded or fired at the place you work over sexual harassment? Do you share this mistrust of women when it comes to them as co-workers and doing their job? Do you think women are out to get you? Do you think women have something to gain by lying and falsely accusing you?

 

Do you have many private, non work related conversations with your female co-workers? Do you spend time one on one with female coworkers out of sight of fellow employees and cameras?

 

To me, this is almost akin to being scared to speak to women because you fear you will be accused of rape.

 

I think a good rule of thumb would be to not talk about sex, dating, “joke” about sex or dating etc with coworkers. Do not make comments about people’s appearance etc. Keep your hands to youself. Keep talk about work and I don’t think things could be misconstrued.

 

Hum, just saw your other posts. Sounds like you have A LOT of, mostly unfounded, anxiety when it comes to women - and this is more of your imagination at work (coupled with a lack of experience). I see this as a lot of outside looking in thought.

 

My challenge you to? Keep your eyes open about what actually happens around you in real life. Not news headlines, not Jerry Springer, not the TV. But the real world in which you are a part of - and how often does all of these things happen? Have men in your company been "arrested" for saying the wrong thing? Or is that your imagination at work?

Edited by RecentChange
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Strange.

 

What industry do you work in? Why are you so concerned that a conversation at work could be taken the wrong way?

 

While I realize that I am a woman, and my experience may not be the norm but… I have never experienced in appropriate behavior at work, and I have never been aware of anyone reprimanded at work for inappropriate behavior. I work in small law offices, so I am sure that plays a part of it but….

 

Are you aware of any men being reprimanded or fired at the place you work over sexual harassment? Do you share this mistrust of women when it comes to them as co-workers and doing their job? Do you think women are out to get you? Do you think women have something to gain by lying and falsely accusing you?

 

Do you have many private, non work related conversations with your female co-workers? Do you spend time one on one with female coworkers out of sight of fellow employees and cameras?

 

To me, this is almost akin to being scared to speak to women because you fear you will be accused of rape.

 

I think a good rule of thumb would be to not talk about sex, dating, “joke” about sex or dating etc with coworkers. Do not make comments about people’s appearance etc. Keep your hands to youself. Keep talk about work and I don’t think things could be misconstrued.

 

Well its more a very real possibility.

 

Here is a recent example, So i was working at my job at an amazon warehouse loading a car. When one of my female coworkers came up to help me, we talked chatted and all that. Then i made a snide comment about her age.

It was in jest, nothing really big just a light hearted joke. To the point where I didn't even know she was upset by it until one of my other female coworkers pointed it out to me.

Thankfully I went up apologized, and the whole thing was resolved rather quickly. But it was a situation that could have easily ended FAR worse for me, had she not been so understanding.

 

Though really I'm talking more in general, then specifically at work. It's not that i don't want to trust women....But i am afraid that due to how society seems to curry more towards this mindset.

 

I can be lured in, tossed aside when I've lost my usefulness or she just gets bored, and then get it turned around and have it seem like it's my fault she dumped me, cheated on me or anything else you can think of.

 

I don't want to be used, I don't want to be falsely accused of anything, I don't like knowing that with a few words and crocodile tears some random girl can completely ruin my life.

 

You can argue that's just me not liking women having power over men, and you might be partially right.

 

But should anyone have that kind of power over anyone?

 

Edit:Yeah it probably is anxiety, but i can't just tell it to stop..

Link to post
Share on other sites

Real sexual assault or discrimination is a problem.

 

 

A compliment is not actionable nor should something innocuous be used to dilute how serious a real assault is. Especially as a woman I get so upset when I see women misusing the system or failing to stick up for themselves. Women have voices & are allowed to use them to say "no."

 

 

There are certain things you don't talk about at work. Sarcasm is rarely well received & often misinterpreted. Don't use it work. Do not touch co-workers. Don't make questionable jokes. It's really not that complicated.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
somanymistakes

I think it's an understandable paranoia. I do think it's paranoid (you're not really in as much danger as you think you are) but it makes sense that you feel that way.

 

There's a couple of things to take into consideration.

 

First, people who have *actually done* really bad things will generally do their best to spin events in their favor when they get caught. Several of the people who've gotten in trouble in recent events, when the first accusations came out, they told totally believable stories of how it was just an innocent comment that was taken in the wrong way and they would never, ever do anything like that! ... And then more and more evidence came pouring out and it slowly became apparent that yeah, no, this guy was a sleazebag.

 

Now imagine that you only heard the first part of the story - you only heard the initial accusation, and the guy saying "It was just a tiny misunderstanding!". And you heard these over and over again. You would, quite reasonably, begin to believe that hundreds of men were being hauled out of their jobs based on teeny-tiny misunderstandings, and that your life could be ruined based on winking at someone at a Christmas party.

 

You wouldn't know what to do. You wouldn't know how to feel safe, because according to these stories you'd heard, ANYTHING could doom you.

 

But in general, that's not what's actually going on. While yes there are always exceptions, the people who are really getting blacklisted at this point DID NOT just bump into someone in the hall and accidentally brush against the wrong part of her body.

 

 

--

 

Second, while this is NOT A GOOD THING, the sad truth is that living in fear is exactly what most women have been doing for a long time.

 

Afraid to be alone with a man, because he might try to sexually assault her.

 

Afraid to smile at a man, because he will take it as evidence of a come-on.

 

Afraid to NOT smile at a man, because he may get angry and attack her (this is more strangers and less 'at work', obviously)

 

And again, some of that fear is ramped up by media reports. When you constantly hear news stories of men taking selfies of themselves sexually assaulting women who were in the process of dying of a drug overdose, it becomes difficult not to fear all men as potential monsters.

 

it's their word against mine and I'm convinced 9 times out of 10 society will believe the woman over me

 

I can't say what's happening right now with the #metoo stuff and whether the number has changed. However, statistics for the resolution of rape cases and sexual harassment cases in the past have shown that 95 times out of 100, people took the word of a man over the woman. She was probably asking for it. She probably just changed her mind afterwards.

 

---

 

Making society a battle of men against women benefits only one group: THE MEDIA. Who will feed off fear and outrage and clickbait.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Then i made a snide comment about her age.

It was in jest, nothing really big just a light hearted joke.

 

Best to avoid snide comments at work. You seem to have some social anxiety, difficulties with social skills - and I think this leads to you not understanding how you may be perceived by others.

 

I can be lured in, tossed aside when I've lost my usefulness or she just gets bored, and then get it turned around and have it seem like it's my fault she dumped me, cheated on me or anything else you can think of.

 

I am not sure what this has to do with your work environment, and again, I think this is your anxiety talking. You seem to spend a lot of time ruminating negative "what ifs".

 

I don't want to be used, I don't want to be falsely accused of anything, I don't like knowing that with a few words and crocodile tears some random girl can completely ruin my life.

 

More anxiety talking. Has this happened to you? A family member? A friend? Who are all of these women making up things to ruin your life? What would they get out of it? Why would someone want to randomly ruin your life?

 

Edit:Yeah it probably is anxiety, but i can't just tell it to stop..

 

Nope, you can't just tell it to stop. But you can get help for your anxiety so that you are equip with tools to tell this voice in your head to chill out. Projecting your anxiety on others, and assuming they are out to get you, is unfair to them, and won't do you any good.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Real sexual assault or discrimination is a problem.

 

 

A compliment is not actionable nor should something innocuous be used to dilute how serious a real assault is. Especially as a woman I get so upset when I see women misusing the system or failing to stick up for themselves. Women have voices & are allowed to use them to say "no."

 

 

There are certain things you don't talk about at work. Sarcasm is rarely well received & often misinterpreted. Don't use it work. Do not touch co-workers. Don't make questionable jokes. It's really not that complicated.

 

But...90% of my humor is sarcasm...

Link to post
Share on other sites
somanymistakes

So, what can you do about it?

 

The best thing you can do is try to have some empathy and extend it to others in your life. You're afraid. They're afraid too!

 

How can you act to try and put others at ease?

 

How can you act to try and protect yourself AND to let them protect themselves?

 

If you're worried that inviting a female coworker to a one-on-one evening meal to discuss things over wine might be misinterpreted as you making a pass at her, TRUST ME she is worried about that too. So maybe you can make the situation less date-looking! Maybe you can invite another person or people to the meeting? Maybe you can have your meeting at work?

 

 

Yes, it would be great if neither one of you had to be scared! But in the meantime, try to deal with people with honesty and kindness.

Link to post
Share on other sites
somanymistakes
But...90% of my humor is sarcasm...

 

Save the sarcastic humor for friends you know really well.

 

Your actual friends can tell you if you've crossed the line, or can get up and leave if they think you're being a jerk.

 

In a work environment other people may feel forced to pretend that their feelings aren't hurt, and that leads to resentment.

 

One of the classic examples of 'negative work environment' that sometimes comes up is that at some workplaces men used to have lots of pin-up girl pictures, or even porn, tacked up all over the office. They didn't realise how much this bothered their few female coworkers, because the women didn't feel like it was safe or appropriate to complain. They felt forced to keep their mouths shut. But feeling like you can't complain makes people angry. Even if the people posting porn had no intention of making people uncomfortable, it became a problem.

 

It's best to be neutral and bland in the workplace.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Save the sarcastic humor for friends you know really well.

 

Your actual friends can tell you if you've crossed the line, or can get up and leave if they think you're being a jerk.

 

In a work environment other people may feel forced to pretend that their feelings aren't hurt, and that leads to resentment.

 

One of the classic examples of 'negative work environment' that sometimes comes up is that at some workplaces men used to have lots of pin-up girl pictures, or even porn, tacked up all over the office. They didn't realise how much this bothered their few female coworkers, because the women didn't feel like it was safe or appropriate to complain. They felt forced to keep their mouths shut. But feeling like you can't complain makes people angry. Even if the people posting porn had no intention of making people uncomfortable, it became a problem.

 

It's best to be neutral and bland in the workplace.

 

So i gotta act boring....greeeeeeeeeat

Link to post
Share on other sites
So i gotta act boring....greeeeeeeeeat

 

No, you have to act professional. They call it WORK, not social hour for a reason.

 

The person I am in the office, is not the same person I am when hanging with friends.

 

So... either, act unprofessional, and have all this anxiety about being black mailed, or.... choose to act exceedingly professional, and have less to worry about.

 

Choice is yours. Do you want to staying doing the same job you are doing now, or do you have aspirations for a better career? The way you conduct yourself will have a large impact on that.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
No, you have to act professional. They call it WORK, not social hour for a reason.

 

The person I am in the office, is not the same person I am when hanging with friends.

 

So... either, act unprofessional, and have all this anxiety about being black mailed, or.... choose to act exceedingly professional, and have less to worry about.

 

Choice is yours. Do you want to staying doing the same job you are doing now, or do you have aspirations for a better career? The way you conduct yourself will have a large impact on that.

 

How is that any different from wearing a mask though?

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author

Honestly I Might just be better off keeping to myself in any work environment, even if i come off as anti-social. It's better then getting fired just because someone took something i said the wrong way.

Link to post
Share on other sites
How is that any different from wearing a mask though?

 

Its not wearing a mask. Has no one ever taught you this?

 

Are you the same person when joking with your buddies, as you would be giving a presentation at a class?

 

Same person in front of your grandmother, as you are with your best friend?

 

Would you the same language and tone if you were at a church, or a bar, or a funeral, or a party?

 

We tailor our language, our behavior, and our interactions to suit the social expectation.

 

I am not going to behave the same way in front of a judge, as I would out partying with my close friend.

 

A huge part of successful social skills are reading the situation and your audience and acting accordingly.

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Its not wearing a mask. Has no one ever taught you this?

 

Are you the same person when joking with your buddies, as you would be giving a presentation at a class?

 

Same person in front of your grandmother, as you are with your best friend?

 

Would you the same language and tone if you were at a church, or a bar, or a funeral, or a party?

 

We tailor our language, our behavior, and our interactions to suit the social expectation.

 

I am not going to behave the same way in front of a judge, as I would out partying with my close friend.

 

A huge part of successful social skills are reading the situation and your audience and acting accordingly.

 

Am i the same person among friends as i am giving a presentation? Yes. As a matter of fact i am. Cause i believe that no matter what you do it's important to be true to who you are as a person.

 

If i have to completely change my personality just to interact with different people then what's the point?

Link to post
Share on other sites
But...90% of my humor is sarcasm...

 

 

Then I suppose you best avoid humor at work. Most people don't get sarcasm so you are not paranoid -- you will get yourself in trouble if you try to be funny at work.

 

 

You don't have to change your personality. You simply have to be more polite and not try to be funny because it will backfire.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Then I suppose you best avoid humor at work. Most people don't get sarcasm so you are not paranoid -- you will get yourself in trouble if you try to be funny at work.

 

 

You don't have to change your personality. You simply have to be more polite and not try to be funny because it will backfire.

 

Unfortunately there is a very fine line between polite and fake. And I have yet to find a good balance with that.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Am i the same person among friends as i am giving a presentation? Yes. As a matter of fact i am. Cause i believe that no matter what you do it's important to be true to who you are as a person.

 

If i have to completely change my personality just to interact with different people then what's the point?

 

Unfortunately there is a very fine line between polite and fake. And I have yet to find a good balance with that.

 

 

You don't have to be fake. You do need to be more polished in the work place. You need a different set of presentation skills vs. social skills. Your presentation should be more formal with a more sophisticated, polished vocabulary while you can be casual with friends outside of work.

Link to post
Share on other sites

To be perfectly honest, most corporate policies are more stringent than what the current metoo-campaign discusses. There has been literally zero change in behavior at my place of work because of it.

 

For example, I'm supposed to perceive women from their neck up only, with the exception of their arms. (How this would be possible is yet another question, but the company can fall back on policy, if necessary.) For example, a co-worker showing me her shoes would be a violation.

 

Anybody remember the penguins from "Madagascar"? "Smile and wave boys, smile and wave."

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
You don't have to be fake. You do need to be more polished in the work place. You need a different set of presentation skills vs. social skills. Your presentation should be more formal with a more sophisticated, polished vocabulary while you can be casual with friends outside of work.

 

Well i already know I'm not cut out for customer service....hell i willingly quit a call center job because i knew i couldn't do it.

 

They kept hammering in how you have to be sickeningly disgustingly nice no matter what, even if the person you are talking to over the phone is particularly vitriolic.

 

It's like having 2 trained boxers in the ring, except one wears kitty gloves and the other wears brass knuckles.

 

But I'm guessing I will have to learn to deal with that no matter what right?

Link to post
Share on other sites
But I'm guessing I will have to learn to deal with that no matter what right?

 

 

Yes. It's called diplomacy.

 

 

However not everyone is cut out for Customer Service. Some people can defuse the screaming banshees; other people can't. My husband is a wonderful manager. He's horrible at Customer Service. His company knows that is not in his skill set so they keep him behind the scenes.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Author
Yes. It's called diplomacy.

 

 

However not everyone is cut out for Customer Service. Some people can defuse the screaming banshees; other people can't. My husband is a wonderful manager. He's horrible at Customer Service. His company knows that is not in his skill set so they keep him behind the scenes.

 

Yeah I'd probably be more comfy as a behind the scenes guy.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Am i the same person among friends as i am giving a presentation? Yes. As a matter of fact i am. Cause i believe that no matter what you do it's important to be true to who you are as a person.

If i have to completely change my personality just to interact with different people then what's the point?

 

No you do not change your personality, and you don't have to be "fake". For instance, among my friends I curse like a sailor. But I would never curse on a conference call with a customer.

 

With friends I use slang and causal language, at work, I make a point to speak properly.

 

With friends, I would poke one in the ribs and tell "hey lighten up!" - at work I will give someone a smile and a laugh.

 

Again, its kinda like behaving in school - did you ever have to do that?

 

But I'm guessing I will have to learn to deal with that no matter what right?

 

Yes, if you ever want to have more than a very basic "job".

 

Yeah I'd probably be more comfy as a behind the scenes guy.

 

Even then, you need to learn how to effectively work with teammates. There are very few jobs where social skills do not matter.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
×
×
  • Create New...