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Let’s talk about confidence


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MaleIntuition

“The fundamental cause of trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt

 

There are a number of different versions of the above quote, but in essence it captures the paradox of the Dunning-Kruger effect: The illusory superiority of people of lower ability and their inability to recognise their own limitations.

 

In the context of dating, confidence is very often mentioned as a desired trait - especially for men. And so is intelligence.

 

However, confidence is often just tossed out there. Without proper context. Yet, confidence - according to my understanding - must relate to an ability in order to have meaning. As in, confident to repeatedly achieve a desired outcome. Only highly narcissistic individuals will believe that they can perform well in everything, in other words; be confident in all areas.

 

I highly doubt that those whom are looking for confident men want stupidity and/or narcissism. What I’m trying to figure out is how, concretely, confidence manifest. Or more specifically which actions or behaviours are perceived as confident? Or, Is it perhaps something else entirely that’s desired?

 

tl/dr: What is confidence?

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As a woman in the dating context I would say that at a minimum a confident man is someone who can articulate the Q to arrange the date in a clear voice with a purpose:

 

Would you like to meet me at the corner bistro on Wednesday at 7 pm for a drink?

 

It gives specifics. There's little humming, & uhmmming, or stuttering or hesitation.

 

It's a man who knows there are plenty of fish in the sea & simply because 1 woman declined his invitation her decision is not a condemnation of his entire existence.

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To me a man acting confident in the dating field is a man that trust a relationship should come easily and if it doesn't work with tonight's date then the next lady may be the one. It's a man that trust he has good qualities to offer and does not compare himself to others. He knows he may not be the tallest, strongest, smartest but he trusts the qualities he does possess would make a happy relationship.

 

Confidence has nothing to do with bragging, talking loud, and constantly looking for a challenge. An introvert quiet man can be very confident. It's a vibe coming out of him that women can pick on.

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Confidence in this context does not relate to the competence that Dunning-Kruger described. That's a separate animal.

 

In dating the confidence is simply the willingness to take a calculated risk. You know that whether you get rejected or not the sun will rise tomorrow, and that you have the life you have created for yourself. It's about knowing who you are and not second-guessing things you either cannot know or control, or know so well that it's counterproductive to question them.

 

I think of it as having the courage to be direct and honest about what you want and communicating it well, knowing that this calculated risk exists.

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GorillaTheater
Confidence in this context does not relate to the competence that Dunning-Kruger described. That's a separate animal.

 

In dating the confidence is simply the willingness to take a calculated risk. You know that whether you get rejected or not the sun will rise tomorrow, and that you have the life you have created for yourself. It's about knowing who you are and not second-guessing things you either cannot know or control, or know so well that it's counterproductive to question them.

 

I think of it as having the courage to be direct and honest about what you want and communicating it well, knowing that this calculated risk exists.

 

 

Exactly right, and I'd phrase it this way:

 

 

It may or may not be actual confidence (the surety of achieving a desired outcome) as much as it's a significant degree of detachment from the outcome.

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Confidence is the feeling that there isn't anything here you can't handle.

 

Ever notice how confident guys roll in fearlessly. It is because they expect the woman to like him (and other guys to respect him) and if not, it's still fine! He can handle whatever tests the woman or other dudes throw his way.

 

This also shows up later during the relationship--putting his cards out on the table unapologetically ect

 

It's the opposite for guys who are not confident. They have their physical guard up and come across nervous because they are so concerned whether they can handle rejection, tests, other guys, ect

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I'm always curious why women are never mentioned when confidence rolls into the room. What is a confident woman?

 

Does she roll in fearlessly? Own the room? Clear and direct? Handles rejection without notice or complaint? Is she emotionally disconnected from any outcome expectations?

 

Then again, if confidence only applies to men, cool, go with that.

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I'm always curious why women are never mentioned when confidence rolls into the room. What is a confident woman?

 

Does she roll in fearlessly? Own the room? Clear and direct? Handles rejection without notice or complaint? Is she emotionally disconnected from any outcome expectations?

 

Then again, if confidence only applies to men, cool, go with that.

 

No, it doesn't only apply to men. Part of the confidence is being able to take an active role in selecting somebody, rather than being selected. And yes, some women absolutely don't want to be passive and will approach men very directly. Personally I don't mind in the slightest.

 

From what I've seen, despite all that talk about letting men hunt, they are successful with it.

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Cookiesandough

I see it as surety in one's thoughts, actions, beliefs. I think way too much to ever be 100% sure or confident about anything.

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MaleIntuition
Exactly right, and I'd phrase it this way:

 

 

It may or may not be actual confidence (the surety of achieving a desired outcome) as much as it's a significant degree of detachment from the outcome.

 

This one is interesting. Not caring about the outcome (multiple posters have mentioned this) should indeed have a positive effect on the perceived confidence. But that’s perhaps better described as indifference, is it not?

 

And is it even possible to not care about the outcome simultaneously as you develop true feelings for someone? Or what happens when you start to care?

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This one is interesting. Not caring about the outcome (multiple posters have mentioned this) should indeed have a positive effect on the perceived confidence. But that’s perhaps better described as indifference, is it not?

 

And is it even possible to not care about the outcome simultaneously as you develop true feelings for someone? Or what happens when you start to care?

 

Have you ever played golf or shot trap? It's not about the score, it's about getting the swing just right, isolating it from everything else around you and blocking any thoughts about the score. It's about achieving near-perfect form in sports, in life it's becoming who you want to be, not about reaching one particular goal.

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Cookiesandough
This one is interesting. Not caring about the outcome (multiple posters have mentioned this) should indeed have a positive effect on the perceived confidence. But that’s perhaps better described as indifference, is it not?

 

And is it even possible to not care about the outcome simultaneously as you develop true feelings for someone? Or what happens when you start to care?

 

It is interesting to me too. I have to say I do a lot of feigning confidence. That 'fake it 'til you make it' stuff. And it is all about detaching yourself from the outcome and not caring. It's not actually that I have confidence it myself, it just looks that way because I don't care if I mess up. The problem is that I detach myself so much that I don't even think it's possible for me to develop true feelings in this mode. I'm not being vulerable or my "real self." Once I start to care it all goes down the drain and I become a mess again, stumbling, stuttering, and tripping everywhere.

Edited by Cookiesandough
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Rewinding to a different time not that long ago, some ladies gathered together to discuss confidence:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/self-improvement-personal-well-being/97616-confidence-girls-confidence

 

Note how open they are about the challenges and successes and the willingness to show a bit of vulnerability. I thought they showed a lot of confidence. Fast forward to a climate where vulnerability and honesty is pounced upon and beaten down. I deal with it every day here in my other job. Can we talk about confidence in that vein or is that period over?

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I'll try to explain it with behaviours I consider confident.

 

1) Being accepting of one's innate nature

2) Being accepting of other's nature

3) Does not feel anyone is better or worse than them

4) Is not afraid to speak their mind and state their interest

5) Does not worry about the outcome

6) Is able to walk away when the conditions are not right

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GorillaTheater
This one is interesting. Not caring about the outcome (multiple posters have mentioned this) should indeed have a positive effect on the perceived confidence. But that’s perhaps better described as indifference, is it not?

 

And is it even possible to not care about the outcome simultaneously as you develop true feelings for someone? Or what happens when you start to care?

 

 

There's a line, fine though it may be, between letting go of outcome and indifference. After all, if you were indifferent, you probably wouldn't approach a woman in the first place. You're interested in a woman, and would welcome the opportunity to get to know her better, but if you're rejected, you smile and move on without it impacting your mood or self-confidence. You can't control her, only yourself.

 

 

If it progresses to a relationship, then you certainly can't be indifferent but you continue to not fret over outcomes. As Imajerk said, you know that whatever happens, you can handle it.

 

 

Works in other scenarios, too, like raising teenagers.

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GorillaTheater

Note how open they are about the challenges and successes and the willingness to show a bit of vulnerability. I thought they showed a lot of confidence. Fast forward to a climate where vulnerability and honesty is pounced upon and beaten down. I deal with it every day here in my other job. Can we talk about confidence in that vein or is that period over?

 

 

This might merit a different thread, but in my experience alone and not speaking for other relationships, showing vulnerability to my wife, on the few times I've done it, is an almost certain fail. You could call it the "va-clang" effect. Maybe other women are more open to it, but as long as I'm stoic or funny, I'm golden.

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Confidence does not mean much with out the context of info regarding the situation.

 

I only ask out women that I have some sort of repore with. If I don't have a repore. Whats the point. So asking a woman out, that I have never talked to, is futile.

 

I actually think most women would go out with me. Its only an outing. Not some sex fest or decloration of love. Its two people getting to know each other.

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Have you ever played golf or shot trap? It's not about the score, it's about getting the swing just right, isolating it from everything else around you and blocking any thoughts about the score. It's about achieving near-perfect form in sports, in life it's becoming who you want to be, not about reaching one particular goal.

 

Since you brought up golf, I play with a bunch of guys who hit it a long way. They usually outdrive me by 40-60 yards and for a long time that bothered me a lot. It made me feel less of a person and I tried all sorts of things to get distance which only made my swing worse. My coaches didn't really help by giving me terrible advice and only after I started seeing my current coach did I understand the value of acceptance. The first thing he told me was to forget distance and to play the course with the tools that were given to me. At first, I didn't like his advice because I was still chasing distance but as I gradually warmed up to his idea, I understood the wisdom contained in his words. I then started concentrating on my technique and in the process, became a better player.

 

The first hole on my home course is a drivable par 4 for some of my friends so when I take an iron out to play my tee shot I'm routinely teased for my conservatism. They don't sound so chirpy when I have their money in my back pocket at the end of the round though :lmao:

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MaleIntuition
Have you ever played golf or shot trap? It's not about the score, it's about getting the swing just right, isolating it from everything else around you and blocking any thoughts about the score. It's about achieving near-perfect form in sports, in life it's becoming who you want to be, not about reaching one particular goal.

 

I’m not a golf player. I’m an offpiste skiier and Jiu-Jitsu newbie. Skiing is not about any goal, other than the process itself. That feeling, the flow, and overcoming challenges. There is no bull****, you either have the skillset to do it. Or you don’t. This is an extreme sport where over confidence regularly results in broken limbs or worse. Jiu-Jitsu is a different beast. It’s a competitive, full contact, martial art where small girls with superior technique will tap you out. No matter how good you become, there will always be someone better.

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This might merit a different thread, but in my experience alone and not speaking for other relationships, showing vulnerability to my wife, on the few times I've done it, is an almost certain fail. You could call it the "va-clang" effect. Maybe other women are more open to it, but as long as I'm stoic or funny, I'm golden.

 

So along with stoic and funny you aren't latest?cb=20170430204552

 

Vulnerability, good, anything to keep you from green. :)

Edited by Timshel
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