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#MeToo and an OW's experience


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Old 3rd February 2018, 7:43 PM   #76
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To me, the idea of “grooming” is mentally preparing someone for a situation they might not otherwise accept.

In SOME affairs, the potential AP is “groomed” by the wayward in a deliberate, thought-out manner. The wayward has to do and say certain things to gain the AP’s trust before making a move.

In SOME cases of sexual abuse, the abuser “grooms” their victim so that the victim is more likely to take the abuse and less likely to report it. Priests, scout leaders, that Penn State assistant coach... it’s not hard to find examples.

The comparison point is in the behavior of some waywards prior to the start of the affair. Calculated, manipulative behavior.

Of course, as soon as the affair starts, the AP is fully responsible for his/her behavior, as a consenting adult. I was never intending to suggest otherwise.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 8:34 PM   #77
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Surely OP you understand the differences in emotional boundaries between

1) a fully-grown woman being fed some flattery by a clearly-married male her peer (your case), versus
2) a preteen girl aka still a CHILD being told what to do by a trusted adult authority figure.

Or between

1) a consenting adult *willingly* deciding to enter into a relationship she knows is wrong (your case), versus
2) a woman being PHYSICALLY FORCED into having sex w someone. Or even being threatened via her livelihood into having sex with someone.

You are trying to make a comparison between your case and sexual harassment. Stop that. There is NO comparison. The women who suffered SA were *victims* who had their boundaries genuinely violated. It's the one thing they have in common. You however were not a victim nor did you have your boundaries violated, you just made bad decisions. Two completely different things.
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Old 3rd February 2018, 11:30 PM   #78
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Originally Posted by lemondrop21 View Post
To me, the idea of “grooming” is mentally preparing someone for a situation they might not otherwise accept.

In SOME affairs, the potential AP is “groomed” by the wayward in a deliberate, thought-out manner. The wayward has to do and say certain things to gain the AP’s trust before making a move.

In SOME cases of sexual abuse, the abuser “grooms” their victim so that the victim is more likely to take the abuse and less likely to report it. Priests, scout leaders, that Penn State assistant coach... it’s not hard to find examples.

The comparison point is in the behavior of some waywards prior to the start of the affair. Calculated, manipulative behavior.

Of course, as soon as the affair starts, the AP is fully responsible for his/her behavior, as a consenting adult. I was never intending to suggest otherwise.
I'm not sure I buy this. I think it's more likely that you have two people with poor boundaries and a lack of respect for the spouses. They then find themselves in a bad situation and instead of being honest with themselves about that situation they lie to themselves and claim "FRIENDS" only. Then one (usually the male) recognizes that it's not something that they want to change Thier lives and doesn't get as involved emotionally, but is willing to continue as long as possible.

Do men move on easier? Absolutely, because an affair doesn't change the way he views his wife and marriage. While women tend to go all in on affairs and to a degree checks out of the marriage. So when the affair ends the man simply goes back fully into his marriage while the woman is faced with the lose of a relationship they were all in on and now facing a relationship they have checked out of. Now she feels foolish and upset because he just doesn't seem all that upset, isn't struggling with the end of the affair.

Yes, many of this guys feed the woman some crap, but didn't she do the same? Truth is married people don't leave the Marriage for affair partners, studies say 9% of men and about double that for women.

So what you have is two people full of ish, then one being more upset then the other. Is there cases where one had " lead" the other into the affair? Of course. But at the end of the day, one never can groom someone for an affair if that person isn't willing to have an affair.

I think it's disingenuous to stand at the end of the road and look back at the wreckage and say "it's his fault for leading me here" that is what you are doing when you say groomed. Like that saying everything you said before BUT is Bull S.

Last edited by DKT3; 3rd February 2018 at 11:34 PM..
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Old 4th February 2018, 3:29 AM   #79
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I'm not sure I buy this. I think it's more likely that you have two people with poor boundaries and a lack of respect for the spouses. They then find themselves in a bad situation and instead of being honest with themselves about that situation they lie to themselves and claim "FRIENDS" only. Then one (usually the male) recognizes that it's not something that they want to change Thier lives and doesn't get as involved emotionally, but is willing to continue as long as possible.

Do men move on easier? Absolutely, because an affair doesn't change the way he views his wife and marriage. While women tend to go all in on affairs and to a degree checks out of the marriage. So when the affair ends the man simply goes back fully into his marriage while the woman is faced with the lose of a relationship they were all in on and now facing a relationship they have checked out of. Now she feels foolish and upset because he just doesn't seem all that upset, isn't struggling with the end of the affair.

Yes, many of this guys feed the woman some crap, but didn't she do the same? Truth is married people don't leave the Marriage for affair partners, studies say 9% of men and about double that for women.

So what you have is two people full of ish, then one being more upset then the other. Is there cases where one had " lead" the other into the affair? Of course. But at the end of the day, one never can groom someone for an affair if that person isn't willing to have an affair.

I think it's disingenuous to stand at the end of the road and look back at the wreckage and say "it's his fault for leading me here" that is what you are doing when you say groomed. Like that saying everything you said before BUT is Bull S.
I’m not married. At the start of the affair I was in a relationship that I ended within 2 or 3 weeks, because I couldn’t take the guilt, I had been on the fence about that relationship for a long time, and I wanted to be with MM. At the time, MM was on the “I’m going to leave my marriage” train while I was doing my best to remain skeptical of that.

MM was a peer/colleague; there has never been any supervisory situation because we’ve always worked in different departments. He is 14 years my senior so that did create a bit of a power dynamic underlying the whole thing, given that of course his position is more senior than mine and if I had dared complain to HR when he first approached me, they would have done nothing. If things had escalated, they would have eventually gotten rid of me, not him, easily. I was 27 when the affair started and he was 42, so I’m much more “disposable” in their eyes.

To this day I don’t know if he’s a serial cheat/“groomer” or just kind of a fool who got into a messy, one-time situation. He’s a bit of a flirt and a charmer, especially with the younger, attractive colleagues, so it wouldn’t be too hard for him to make this his MO. Or maybe he just leaves it at mild flirtations most of the time; sometimes flirting is just flirting.

But putting my own xMM aside, there are absolutely men out there who serially exhibit this sort of behavior. I know of several through work networks. Their preferred APs tend to be younger (20’s), single and a bit naive.

Of course these women are consenting adults as I’ve said in every post on this thread.

Also, in response to imajerk - I have been aggressively sexually assaulted before (not by MM). I was 20. Not as vulnerable as a minor, certainly. But I’ve had a variety of experiences that make me feel able to speak on the subject with complete respect for victims of SA. There hasn’t yet been anyone on this thread (correct me if I’m wrong) who has said “I was a victim of sexual assault and what you, lemondrop, have said, is offensive to me.” If there was, I would certainly listen and would want to hear from them and do anything I could to correct my statements and my thinking.

But it seems to be mostly men such as yourself (I think you are male?) with no first-hand knowledge of any of these experiences, who are chomping at the bit to tell me how I should feel, what I should say, what dialogues I should or shouldn’t have.

Last edited by lemondrop21; 4th February 2018 at 3:34 AM..
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Old 4th February 2018, 3:48 AM   #80
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Another point I wish to make, very clearly, in response to several of the above posts:

I am comparing the behaviors of manipulative people, primarily men in these types of situations. There is a spectrum of manipulative behavior. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be more likely to accept an affair relationship is bad. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be a victim of sexual assault is SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

My focus has been on comparing the behavior of the manipulator, rather than comparing “victims.” Consenting APs are NOT victims. But they may have been “targets,” or recipients of certain mode of behavior, which made them more likely to become consenting APs.


Now that I’ve said that, I will no longer respond to posts telling me to stop equating myself in the affair to a victim of sexual assault, because that’s NOT what I’m saying.
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Old 4th February 2018, 4:06 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by lemondrop21 View Post
Another point I wish to make, very clearly, in response to several of the above posts:

I am comparing the behaviors of manipulative people, primarily men in these types of situations. There is a spectrum of manipulative behavior. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be more likely to accept an affair relationship is bad. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be a victim of sexual assault is SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

My focus has been on comparing the behavior of the manipulator, rather than comparing “victims.” Consenting APs are NOT victims. But they may have been “targets,” or recipients of certain mode of behavior, which made them more likely to become consenting APs.


Now that I’ve said that, I will no longer respond to posts telling me to stop equating myself in the affair to a victim of sexual assault, because that’s NOT what I’m saying.
Totally understand what you're saying and totally agree with you!!!! From first post to last post xxx
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Old 4th February 2018, 12:12 PM   #82
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Lemondrop with each reply you have made you became much clearer with your original post. Not to say you were never clear, just for me I saw a development so to speak in what you were trying to relay.

I'm sorry you were sexually assaulted as well... from my experience it has been a long journey of recovery. It's been 36 years and I miss the 13 year old who was not afraid. Being raped does alter your reality and I can see the point you are making in your experience with an affair.

Remember you are a beautiful young lady who should enjoy the love of a relationship in the light of the day😊
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Old 4th February 2018, 2:59 PM   #83
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Mods - I request that you not merge this with another of my threads, as it's meant to be a standalone post. It isn't a continuation of my story; rather, I'd like to know if anyone else relates to my feelings about the #MeToo movement and being an OW, and I'd like to have a discussion about the psychology behind that, not just about my particular situation.

Cool, so we'll move this to GRD since you're not in an affair and wish to discuss the topic in general terms, not just about your particular situation. This is outlined quite clearly in the sticky thread at the top of the forum this was originally posted in, now for what, nearly six years?

We got a report on some suspected civility and respect violations so I'll review the thread for such and may close it during part of that time.

OK, review complete, some paragraphs added, some inflammatory/off-topic comments redacted or edited, and we'll consider any and all comparisons or 'whataboutsims' to be resolved and return to the focus of the topic, which is apparently concerning the tactics of 'grooming' a potential affair partner and the interpersonal dynamics involved. The topic is explicitly not about any one member's personal affair or other relationship experience, rather general commentary about grooming in affairs.

Keep it civil and thread re-opened.

Last edited by William; 4th February 2018 at 3:14 PM.. Reason: Review complete.
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Old 4th February 2018, 5:51 PM   #84
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While I don't think that "grooming" exists in every affair situation, but I do think it does occur in some.

There really do seem to be some men and women out there who really enjoy the "hunt" ( for lack of a better word), and being able to draw someone into a relationship they likely would otherwise never have gotten involved in. They really do seem to be experts at reading people and playing on their insecurities and needs, whatever they might be.

Of course, not all married/men women are like this, but I really do believe there are some people out there who have a real need for the ego boost that this sort of situation can give them. One of the saddest parts of it all is that they often don't seem to care that much who they've hurt, so long as they got what they wanted. They just move on to the next person.
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Old 5th February 2018, 2:45 PM   #85
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Another point I wish to make, very clearly, in response to several of the above posts:

I am comparing the behaviors of manipulative people, primarily men in these types of situations. There is a spectrum of manipulative behavior. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be more likely to accept an affair relationship is bad. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be a victim of sexual assault is SIGNIFICANTLY worse.

My focus has been on comparing the behavior of the manipulator, rather than comparing “victims.” Consenting APs are NOT victims. But they may have been “targets,” or recipients of certain mode of behavior, which made them more likely to become consenting APs.


Now that I’ve said that, I will no longer respond to posts telling me to stop equating myself in the affair to a victim of sexual assault, because that’s NOT what I’m saying.
The concept that I struggle with, lemondrop21, is the idea that an adult would be 'groomed' to be an affair partner.

When I meet a man who is married (i am a woman) the possibility of a romantic connection is impossible. That man becomes a non sexual human in my interaction. We may banter and be friendly...I'm friendly in any social exchange.

The thought of this person being in a position to 'groom' me is beyond mute. He is off the table, friend/acquaintance, this man simply does not have a chance with me in any sexual/romantic scenario.

I have had many married and single men put their feelers out and be immediately put straight. They allude and have their answer. Done.

I understand a person who is lonely being flattered by attention. What I don't understand is the point at which it is understood the man is married but the woman allows themselves to be 'groomed.'

I want to understand where you are coming from. You were in a vulnerable place, a man gave attention....but with malice, premeditation?

There are grey areas of affairs but I would appreciate an explanation of this particular one because I truly am not following.
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Old 5th February 2018, 9:50 PM   #86
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[B]I am comparing the behaviors of manipulative people, primarily men in these types of situations. There is a spectrum of manipulative behavior. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be more likely to accept an affair relationship is bad. Manipulating or “grooming” someone to be a victim of sexual assault is SIGNIFICANTLY worse.
This issue of assault aside, your use of "someone" seems designed to negate the actual roles of the victims in the examples you've used. They were students, employees (actual or prospective), patients, disciples, apprentices, SAHM's with few choices, etc.

And you? You were simply another adult with full knowledge of his marital status and many options other than an affair. Not remotely the same thing...

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