Weight and appearance

[SolG]

A few recent threads have got me thinking about this. There is a philosophy out there that caring about a partner's weight and appearance is shallow. I tend to agree that if this is the primary and predominate focus, then yes that is shallow. However, conversely I believe it really is a factor in the fulfilling longevity of a relationship.

 

While attractiveness is subjective, I do think that most people would like their partner to maintain their relative attractiveness over time. I know I do! I want to always look at my partner/s and see what I always saw because they've not stayed exactly the same, but maintained themselves well over the years. Smile wrinkles, some happy pudge that's workout resistent, stretch marks, some hanging skin and muffin top, etc. All good. But whole scale let yourself go. No way. Nah uh. Not acceptable to me unless there is some health crisis.

 

I actually think that we have cultivated an expectation in this respect that noone is voicing it anymore. It should be okay to say to a partner that I love you. But if you let yourself go, I'll still love you but I will be worried about your health and may not want to have sex with you. I see this as pragmatic and responsible. Honest and appropriate.

 

I have seen too many threads, heard from too many friends and colleagues to discount the importance of the aesthetic. IMO it needs to be discussed early and often in relationships

 

But it's not PC to say it. Many deny what they really think to supposedly massage ego. But they're really only setting all concerned up for distress later when it becomes evident that it actually mattered all along.

 

Thoughts?

[Els]

I personally feel that it shouldn't be the top priority, but is acceptable as one of many factors.

 

The thing is that I think aesthetics get an inordinate amount of focus in places like LS. Whereas in real life it varies a lot depending on the individual. Some people find that aesthetics influence their attraction more, others less. Personally, my man's appearance could change quite a bit before it starts genuinely affecting my attraction negatively, whereas other things (like the way he treats me) would have significant impact even with small changes. I daresay it's the same for him.

 

For other people, the balance could be different, and that's totally fine - each to their own. The problem is when people assume that everyone prioritizes aesthetics as much as they do, and make too many blanket generalizations based on it.

 

TL;DR: I think it depends entirely on the individual and advice should be tailored towards the person in question, not based on the giver's priorities.

[elaine567]

I have a feeling it is like just about everything else, compatibility is key.

 

So if you are essentially a couch potato or love chilling out in old clothes and getting messy doing projects or hate the bother of make up or designer clothes do nothing for you, or your idea of getting dressed up is a wash and change of tshirt, or you have a "Life is too short to diet" philosophy then find someone who thinks similarly.

NO point in trying to change anyone, as they may do it for a while, but they will revert back to who they really are, as that is their comfort zone.

 

Of course life can get in the way and some can show just how much they hurt in the inside, by not caring about the outside any longer...

[stillafool]

I agree. It's nearly impossible to have sex with someone you aren't attracted to. Marriage is no reason to let yourself go. You are correct the it is not PC to express your disapproval.

[Chilli]

Yeah l agree. lt's only natural.

So much bs because if you read any thread anywhere on the net about dates or whatnot, the first thing he or she talks about is attraction, and the same on date sites.

Besides, if your gonna be sleeping with the one person the rest of your life ,l don't care what anyone says reality is it needs everything going for it it can get.

 

And really, how cool that she'd still wanna look after herself for me and me her.

[wmacbride]

If someone was focused on their appearance before their marriage and then they just let themselves go,that is one thing.

 

It's different when someone marries someone knowing that they are a couch potato or junk food junkie and are okay with that ( after all, if they aren't, then why get married in the first place? That makes no sense) but expects them to change that once they are married.

[littleblackheart]

It's no better to judge a spouse for being concerned for their partner's health than it is judging a spouse whose physical appearance has changed.

 

If the couple is committed and has an otherwise fulfilling relationship, there's no reason why this type of hurdle can't be managed 'as a team' with honest communication and support, ie reassurance that each other's concerns are validated.

[SolG]

I have a feeling it is like just about everything else, compatibility is key.

 

So if you are essentially a couch potato or love chilling out in old clothes and getting messy doing projects or hate the bother of make up or designer clothes do nothing for you, or your idea of getting dressed up is a wash and change of tshirt, or you have a "Life is too short to diet" philosophy then find someone who thinks similarly.

NO point in trying to change anyone, as they may do it for a while, but they will revert back to who they really are, as that is their comfort zone.

 

Of course life can get in the way and some can show just how much they hurt in the inside, by not caring about the outside any longer...

 

I agree to a certain extent Elaine. I wear makeup for special occasions only, I revel in my art and the attendant messiness whilst wearing floppy clothes. And I don't diet.

 

However, I care for my body and exercise it often and fuel it well. A byproduct of that, which I also aim for, is that I look good for my age.

 

I guess you're right about compatibility. I could not tolerate a couch potato. And he/she probably couldn't tolerate me!

 

I find it interesting that you make a distinction between hurting on the inside manifesting as not caring about the outside. I see/feel/experience them as so inextricably linked. Inseparable.

[somanymistakes]

I think a lot of it comes down to what people mean by "letting themselves go".

 

Like, there legitimately are people who do the whole hog beauty routine up until they get married and then stop because "lol, you're trapped now, I don't have to bother anymore!" And this is a bad idea because it's going to make everyone unhappy. Nobody likes a bait-and-switch. One partner will be upset because they didn't get the person they thought they were marrying, the other partner will be upset because they may discover that their "real self" is not loved and appreciated. If you want to be appreciated for your true self you need to put your true self out there in the first place!

 

On the other hand, if you married a cute 18-year-old girl who never wore makeup and whose exercise routine consisted of jogging once a week, and you get upset because 15 years later she doesn't look as cute and shiny and young and thin as she did when she was 18, then that's pretty unfair. Most people naturally gain and sag as they age, some more than others, and not everyone wants to put in huge amounts of effort with gym memberships, cosmetic surgery, diet routines, etc, to try and keep themselves as pretty as possible.

 

It's frustrating when a lot of times people say "looking after yourself" and "not letting yourself go" and try to make it sound as if they care about health when what they ACTUALLY care about is weight and/or attractiveness. You can be thin and pretty and very unhealthy, you can be fat and in surprisingly good health, but which one is viewed by the outside as "looking after yourself"?

 

But it all comes down to individual relationships and being sensible in the specific circumstances.

[carhill]

A few recent threads have got me thinking about this. There is a philosophy out there that caring about a partner's weight and appearance is shallow. I tend to agree that if this is the primary and predominate focus, then yes that is shallow. However, conversely I believe it really is a factor in the fulfilling longevity of a relationship.

If the focus, IMO that's unhealthy long-term. If part of the package, yup that's mating. Very discriminatory. Not dissimilar from professions where image is the product. They don't hire ugly people. That's life!

 

While attractiveness is subjective, I do think that most people would like their partner to maintain their relative attractiveness over time. I know I do! I want to always look at my partner/s and see what I always saw because they've not stayed exactly the same, but maintained themselves well over the years.

While we could discuss that attractiveness flows well beyond the physical, at least from my reads of these forums, for this discussion I guess we can presume that appearance is what is attractive or not and changes to a more ugly appearance are, or can be, an affront to the health of the relationship and/or respect and care for one's self and one's partner.

 

Where does that come from? I think it harkens back to those heady days of peer integration; fitting in. Meeting or exceeding the judgments and standards of the social group. Achieving or failing. Get or be ugly and one has failed. We had such great hopes. You had all the right breeding. What went wrong? To me that sounds like the judgment of others. Is that an example of life not being fair? Perhaps.

Smile wrinkles, some happy pudge that's workout resistent, stretch marks, some hanging skin and muffin top, etc. All good. But whole scale let yourself go. No way. Nah uh. Not acceptable to me unless there is some health crisis.

Good examples. I believe a lot of people share your views. Especially in California It's a very image-driven culture. Brutal at times. I watch how people twist themselves into the cultural standard of beauty, both men and women. The reward? They've achieved. Won. I hear the applause. The adulation. You are now approved to breed. Get that baby bump off quickly though. Back to the gym. Run with that stroller. Go, go, go. That's the culture. People love it. All the beautiful bodies on the beach. Seriously. What's not to like?

I actually think that we have cultivated an expectation in this respect that noone is voicing it anymore. It should be okay to say to a partner that I love you. But if you let yourself go, I'll still love you but I will be worried about your health and may not want to have sex with you. I see this as pragmatic and responsible. Honest and appropriate.

I have seen too many threads, heard from too many friends and colleagues to discount the importance of the aesthetic. IMO it needs to be discussed early and often in relationships

I agree. People who focus on appearance should do so clearly and authentically, whether as primary or as an important part of what they expect in a partnership. For some, and I know some couples like this, their appearance is key to their success in life, both monetarily and socially/politically. Falling down in that regard simply from letting oneself go could be very destructive to the partnership, their brand. Sure, all the other human stuff is valuable and important but for some folks the appearance part is crucial and should definitely be in the mix early and by example.

But it's not PC to say it.

I think society is more politically incorrect than ever in existence. All we need to do is read the internet everyday. We see such brutal honesty right here on these forums. People being who they really are.

Many deny what they really think to supposedly massage ego. But they're really only setting all concerned up for distress later when it becomes evident that it actually mattered all along.

My best examples flow from MW's who are married to beautiful guys and then give me the BS that appearance doesn't matter to them, ostensibly to massage the ego of the 'lesser' man, me. Heck, if I was gay I'd marry those guys Over the decades I learned to develop a sense of humor about hypocrisy of emotion, something especially prevalent in the money and appearance-driven culture I was born into in California. People talk-talk then I watch what they do-do. Their actions rarely lie. Words, meh.

 

Thoughts?

I think being focused as part, even significant part of one's mating preference, on beauty is fine and healthy. Do it authentically and please leave those not on your beauty ladder alone. We're not toys to play with and discard. Thanks! Edited January 8, 2018 by carhill

[SolG]

To be clear, I'm not talking about beauty. I'm talking about health and relative attractiveness. Ageing is inevitable. Becoming obese is not if you're otherwise healthy. And yes I agree that it is not everything. You can maintain health and fitness, but still be unattractive due to being a right royal pain in the ass!

 

Relative is a key term. Relative to your norms and those of your relationship. I absolutely believe that I owe it to a partner, and they to me, to strive to be healthy and attractive to each other. That has nothing to do with delving into the cosmetic surgery o subscribing to the beauty myth. It just means eating and living well and prioritising health and a modicum of grooming. I just don't see that as a difficult task for the average person. I think it is perfectly reasonable expectation to have and express.

[Cookiesandough]

Ye, people become unsexy. I feel like marriage often worked out better in the 19 century and before because people often died before that happened.

[Chilli]

It's no better to judge a spouse for being concerned for their partner's health than it is judging a spouse whose physical appearance has changed.

 

If the couple is committed and has an otherwise fulfilling relationship, there's no reason why this type of hurdle can't be managed 'as a team' with honest communication and support, ie reassurance that each other's concerns are validated.

 

But it usually won't work out as easy as that , believe me.

[xenawarriorprincess]

A few recent threads have got me thinking about this. There is a philosophy out there that caring about a partner's weight and appearance is shallow. I tend to agree that if this is the primary and predominate focus, then yes that is shallow. However, conversely I believe it really is a factor in the fulfilling longevity of a relationship.

 

While attractiveness is subjective, I do think that most people would like their partner to maintain their relative attractiveness over time. I know I do! I want to always look at my partner/s and see what I always saw because they've not stayed exactly the same, but maintained themselves well over the years. Smile wrinkles, some happy pudge that's workout resistent, stretch marks, some hanging skin and muffin top, etc. All good. But whole scale let yourself go. No way. Nah uh. Not acceptable to me unless there is some health crisis.

 

I actually think that we have cultivated an expectation in this respect that noone is voicing it anymore. It should be okay to say to a partner that I love you. But if you let yourself go, I'll still love you but I will be worried about your health and may not want to have sex with you. I see this as pragmatic and responsible. Honest and appropriate.

 

I have seen too many threads, heard from too many friends and colleagues to discount the importance of the aesthetic. IMO it needs to be discussed early and often in relationships

 

But it's not PC to say it. Many deny what they really think to supposedly massage ego. But they're really only setting all concerned up for distress later when it becomes evident that it actually mattered all along.

 

Thoughts?

 

 

If I bought a Mustang, it would be reasonable for it to gather a few scratches, maybe a dent or two, and perhaps a blown out tire over the course of many years.

 

But if I go out to my garage with the intent of driving my Mustang and I notice that it’s transformed into a School Bus, I’m going to wonder what the hell happened and I might even begin looking into getting my Mustang recalled, LOL.

Edited January 9, 2018 by xenawarriorprincess

[road]

Grey hair, baldness, wrinkles, eventually even exercise will not

prevent some area with flabby muscle. Though one can still

look real good for their age with these things.

 

Though not exercising, bad dental care, bad eating habits,

smoking, will all have a huge negative impact on one's

attractiveness.

[basil67]

Ye, people become unsexy. I feel like marriage often worked out better in the 19 century and before because people often died before that happened.

 

You nailed it Cookies.

 

I was thinking that perhaps marriage vows should be changed to be "I will stay with you as long as you meet my needs".

[xenawarriorprincess]

You nailed it Cookies.

 

I was thinking that perhaps marriage vows should be changed to be "I will stay with you as long as you meet my needs".

 

With a divorce rate of 50%, it already means that.

[snowboy91]

Ye, people become unsexy. I feel like marriage often worked out better in the 19 century and before because people often died before that happened.

 

Maybe they also died before they got sick or bored of each other?

 

Let's assume someone maintains very good health throughout their lives. Do people become unsexy objectively, or do they just become less attractive to their partner because they've spent basically their whole lives together? I'd tend towards the latter - people get out of relationships in their 40s and 50s and find themselves new partners - I assume they find each other sexy.

 

That assumption often doesn't remain true though. Due to long work hours, laziness with cooking, changes in hormones etc., people do unfortunately stack on the pounds which is considered an unattractive trait. Stacking on too many pounds is certainly a health problem and if there are genuine concerns they should be raised. Unfortunately it's way too easy to misinterpret genuine concern as an insult with this kind of issue.

[todreaminblue]

I do feel its better to be honest especially when it comes to concern for a partner's health, concern should always be appreciated,there are reasons beyond laziness to why people let themselves go and when in a marriage you marry for better or worse.....for me personally if a guy i was married to just wanted better than he isnt for me...he can do better not with me....

 

 

i would want a partner to for sure tell me if his attraction was waning because of the way i looked and if his concern came also from a place of caring more than just aesthetics and more about my fitness and health than i would try my hardest to get back in shape for myself and for him.....but...i would expect him to join me.....that means not sitting eating or drinking junk if i am changing my lifestyle and habits...he would have to change right along with me....become more active or whatever it took ......do things as a unit......so both of us would benefit..with unwavering support....so supporting when it gets tough going...and not giving up...i would do the same for him if the situation was reversed......my attraction however wouldn't wane ......how he treats me affects my attraction levels.....cheating affects my attraction level......dishonesty...abuse.....i see the guy i am with...differently....i close my heart off....and weather the storms.....

 

a person who is abusive ...however good looking ...suddenly becomes....very small.....and i dont feel warmth...so how a person treats me and others...always changes my perception....makes me step back.....and go hey...do i really know this person.....aesthetics arent my first consideration when being with someone so if and when i marry.....it will be with a guy who sees me for who i am ....whatever weight i am.....all i hope is i am actually fit when i meet that guy....because my fitness does matter to me...i love feeling fit....and i feel it in depression when i am not fit...as far as weight goes fi i am fit i am going to be heavier, even at a size ten i was heavy.... ...i have been heavier than a few guys i have been with i could lift them....they didnt mind......because when i am fit i can be muscular....but im getting older ...maybe my muscle days are gone ...we shall see ....but if a guy just wants looks...im not a looker..im not the woman for him....doubt i would ever marry a guy who wanted that....deb

Edited January 9, 2018 by todreaminblue

[littleblackheart]

But it usually won't work out as easy as that , believe me.

 

I'm sure you're right in your personal circumstances.

 

I'm just not convinced that a stable, strong couple where spouses have mutual respect for each other would crumble for this one thing alone. Any reasonable person will be ok with their partner sharing a health concern with them, and also accept that time takes its toll on the body and each of us are affected differently.

 

It's also perfectly ok to not be exactly compatible in that area as long as one doesn't try to force their way of life onto the other, or control them, IMO, and just accept their partner for who they are, even more so after decades together.

 

One of my favourite couples (I call them my substitute parents) has stuck through thick and thin (literally and figuratively) from health scares to drastic weight changes on both sides throughout the years and every time they have come out stronger, because their care and commitment to each other has defied everything.

[basil67]

With a divorce rate of 50%, it already means that.

 

What's the use of vows if you're not honest about your intentions to leave if things go your way?

[central]

What's the use of vows if you're not honest about your intentions to leave if things go your way?

 

Vows are based on tradition, and sometimes (esp. in religious ceremonies) you don't have much choice in what you get.

 

That said, our only vow was to be together for as long as we are both in love with each other.

 

Quite honestly, you can't truly promise to love, or honor, or anything else when you have no experience on which to base such grandiose commitments, plus people and circumstances change. Why trap yourself with unrealistic promises you probably can't keep? Really, there are no guarantees, and I don't think there should be.

 

Still, marriage is a serious commitment, and serious efforts should be made to address issues, and patience is needed for the time required to fix problems. Change is inevitable, but usually can be managed and accepted.

Edited January 9, 2018 by central

[wmacbride]

If someone is gaining weight for non-medical reasons ( for instance, prednisone and some other medications, thyroid issues, etc. can really cause a person to put on the pounds) I thin it should be taken as a symptom of a larger issues.

 

If a husband or wife comes home and the first thing they do is raid the fridge or snack cupboard then plunk their behind down in their well worn couch groove to play video games, watch tv or sit on their phone for a few hours, then how engaged can they actually be with their spouse or kids ( if they ave any)?

 

Some people eat and become sluggish because they are suffering from the early stages of depression, anxious about work or something else.

 

I can see how a spouse's concern in these situations may seem like they are about food intake, when they are really worried about something larger.

 

Can framing a concern this way "honey, I've noticed you've been kind of withdrawn lately and you are eating a lot more than you used to. Is something wrong? Do you need something from me? I love you and am worried. I want to help if I can...just tell me what you need" be helpful?

 

I don't know. Everyone is different.

[Els]

To be clear, I'm not talking about beauty. I'm talking about health and relative attractiveness. Ageing is inevitable. Becoming obese is not if you're otherwise healthy. And yes I agree that it is not everything. You can maintain health and fitness, but still be unattractive due to being a right royal pain in the ass!

 

Health != weight != appearance != attractiveness, though. They are all separate and different things, albeit with some overlap. Yes, medical obesity does negatively affect health and usually negatively affects appearance which for most people negatively affects attractiveness, but the healthy weight range is much wider than the stereotypically "beautiful" weight range. Also, weight is only one part of health, and there are many more factors - a BMI 18 person is not inherently any healthier than a BMI 24 person, and if the BMI 18 person fad diets or smokes to stay skinny (which a few do), they would be in actual fact less healthy.

 

As for health vs appearance, unfortunately many things that are considered "beautifying" in today's society (e.g. chemical hair straightening/curling, pubic hair waxing, long-term use of high heels, certain types of makeup, dubious muscle-gain "supplements" for men, etc) are in fact unhealthy.

 

I'll be concerned about my partner's health if he becomes medically obese, sure, but it wouldn't necessarily be relevant to attractiveness, and I would be much more concerned if he had the body of a celebrity with a drug habit to suit.

[LuckyM]

In my lifelong experience, I think appearance (clothing and body and face) is about 80% of attraction more or less. People don't want to admit it because like you say it looks shallow. But most of us are more shallow than we admit.This may account for the high number of divorces because time changes how we look and dress. People fell in love with the guy or girl they married, not the present appearance.

 

If you don't like a person's looks to start, you will never get to know his or her personality or other qualities, regardless of what they are.