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The problem with "nice guys"


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Old 13th December 2017, 9:12 AM   #1
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Arrow The problem with "nice guys"

Nice guys just don't turn women on.

Why? There are lots of reasons. But let's start with the basics. They're just not exciting. Have you heard the country song, "Ladies love outlaws"? Most women are attracted to a little bit of danger. Plus, in order to have the "in love" feeling, a woman has to have her love returned somewhat, but not altogether, and yet she has to have hope of having it returned altogether in the future.

Women need the excitement that makes her wonder, "Will he call or won't he?" Don't become too predictable. Yes, nice guys often finish last. Maybe it's because there's no challenge. Maybe it's because too nice is too boring.

Nice guys give too much too soon. They need to learn to give a little bit, and not consistently. Giving consistently doesn't make a woman want more. Giving intermittently makes her want more.

The kiss of death for a relationship (in the courting stage) is when they are always there for her and she knows you love her more than life. That's a lot more pressure than a woman wants in the beginning of a relationship. She wants a little equality, in terms of you both deciding at a similar speed if you want to be in a romantic relationship -- not you've decided and now she has to get on board.
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Old 13th December 2017, 9:31 AM   #2
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Nice guys, meaning men with manners, are fine. Doormats are boring & have all sorts of trouble with dating. You can be polite & confident. But if you are simply obsequious, women will walk all over you.
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Old 13th December 2017, 9:37 AM   #3
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When I was dating I considered myself a nice guy, not a doormat type however but I think I was successful in creating what it took to keep a woman's attention and to keep her attention.
I didn't play the bad guy kind of games but I did figure out what worked and built on that to create the desire that they wanted more or wanted to see more.

In most cases all I needed was a woman's undivided attention and I would woo her from there.. but I used humor and sometimes status to get that undivided attention.
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Old 13th December 2017, 9:48 AM   #4
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There is no problem with nice guys....Tons of successful, good looking, well built nice guys that are drowning in female attention...

It's just that if you have little else to offer, being nice won't get you anywhere....And that's true in most aspects of life, business, etc...

TFY
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Old 13th December 2017, 10:02 AM   #5
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I doubt that I will ever score any points on the "danger" front, but (unfortunately) the aloof/challenge thing does work. When I was young and single, I was always the one more interested and always the one dumped because I wanted to jump into relationship-mode right away. With my wife, it was different. She was more interested and I was more aloof and hesitant and yada-yada-yada, we've been together about 25 years.

The thing is . . . I wasn't playing a hard-to-get angle. I really was conflicted and less interested. It robbed me of a honeymoon period and in some ways still presents an intimacy barrier. I've learned that to be satisfied in an LTR, I need to feel that I can be completely open with my partner. How do you reconcile this with the need to take a hard-to-get approach in order to attract someone in the first place? At what point is it OK for a man to be vulnerable and admit his real feelings for a woman?
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Old 13th December 2017, 10:03 AM   #6
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I think it is in your own point of view. As a nice guy myself, I would not go after any woman that is in to "Bad boys". Why put up with all the baggage? As a nice, whole, put together guy, I am worth more on the market. Real nice guys go fast, they find other good women and marry settle down and have kids. Leaving the women who are into "Bad boys" to wonder where are the nice good guys are when they want to settle down. They deserve what they get in the end. For the guy who is nice, do not sell yourself short, hold out for that woman that complements you. You ideas of fidelity, honor and being a good husband and mate are worth more then you can know.

What you really need is self confidence. Have that, and the rest will follow.
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Old 13th December 2017, 10:30 AM   #7
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Real nice guys go fast, they find other good women and marry settle down and have kids. Leaving the women who are into "Bad boys" to wonder where are the nice good guys are when they want to settle down. They deserve what they get in the end. For the guy who is nice, do not sell yourself short, hold out for that woman that complements you. You ideas of fidelity, honor and being a good husband and mate are worth more then you can know.
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Old 13th December 2017, 11:25 AM   #8
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The whole notion that guys are either nice, bad or doormats are pretty darn ridiculous.

The “problem” with nice guys isn’t that they are nice, but that they are defined or are defining themselves primarily by their niceness. Remember that these are subjective opinions of another person (one persons nice guy might be someone else’s Prince Charming); but in the end the end our best description of that person is: “Yeah, he is a nice guy”. Not funny, not smart, not adventurous, not deep, not handy, not caring, not a good father, but simply... “nice”. The archetype therefore becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of someone whom we consider a bit boring and bland.

Generally speaking we tend to like people with stronger personalities. Something that makes them stand out, other than the baseline requirements of not treating others like sh*t.
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Old 13th December 2017, 11:34 AM   #9
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My bf is a 'nice guy', the type of nice guy that holds his gf's purse in shopping mall . Even though he's completely whipped he knows how to hold his grown and say no to me. He's his own person and if I disappear tomorrow he'll do just fine without me. I am not 25 years old anymore to be excited by a bad boy that keeps me at arms length. I am twice 25 and I want a real genuine connection.
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Old 13th December 2017, 11:46 AM   #10
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I agree with everyone else has said. Human social hierarchy is complex. The assumption that women only desire “bad boys” is born out of the myth that males are either classified as alpha or beta.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=YTyQgwVvYyc
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Old 13th December 2017, 11:53 AM   #11
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Thanks Alpha, timely topic and IME pretty spot-on. I've found a good use for the technique though, to turn off married women. It works great. I feel good and they disappear.
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Old 13th December 2017, 12:01 PM   #12
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My SO is an incredibly good/nice man, is usually described that way by people, but has never referred to himself as a "nice guy". Niceness is a decision and at times a personal quality, but if there are no other defining attributes it's not going to draw people in. There's also a big difference between nice guys who are insecure and needy, and those who have a healthy sense of self and boundaries.
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Old 13th December 2017, 12:05 PM   #13
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I think part of the reason is that for the most part girls are brought up to be nice girls, but there is a part of them that wants to be naughty and break the rules.
In short for every nice good girl there is an inner bad girl wanting to be naughty.
I am reminded of a time after I graduated high school, when I found myself a good 5 miles away from home one night without a ride. I was planning from the beginning to hitch hike home. That is until I ran into one of my good friend's sister, who was in the same predicament. She was a looker, but I had no chance with her, nice girl, making great grades, went on to be valedictorian, dating a nice guy of the same ilk, already planning on marriage and family.
I spotted some one's bicycle and asked her if she wanted a ride home on the handlebars. Yep we stole a bike, half a mile down the road, she spotted another unattended bike and had her own. Later she spotted a nicer one and made the trade up. Laughing the whole way we were home within an hour.
Where she invited me in.
From there on we were friends with benefits, while she made her unknowing nice guy boy friend wait until they were into college.
Some time in the past few years she made contact through the internet, and the first thing she brought up was the night we rode stolen bicyles home, and what happened afterwards.

Last edited by 2.50 a gallon; 13th December 2017 at 12:07 PM..
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Old 13th December 2017, 12:09 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by MaleIntuition View Post
The whole notion that guys are either nice, bad or doormats are pretty darn ridiculous.

The “problem” with nice guys isn’t that they are nice, but that they are defined or are defining themselves primarily by their niceness. Remember that these are subjective opinions of another person (one persons nice guy might be someone else’s Prince Charming); but in the end the end our best description of that person is: “Yeah, he is a nice guy”. Not funny, not smart, not adventurous, not deep, not handy, not caring, not a good father, but simply... “nice”. The archetype therefore becomes a self fulfilling prophecy of someone whom we consider a bit boring and bland.

Generally speaking we tend to like people with stronger personalities. Something that makes them stand out, other than the baseline requirements of not treating others like sh*t.
Bingo!

Being labelled 'nice' is very subjective indeed. Everyone has their own definition of what makes someone a nice person.

I think it's naive to box men up into only two categories and think that's enough to go on.

I can't speak for all women, but my attraction isn't so black and white. It goes much deeper than just labeling someone "nice'.
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Old 13th December 2017, 12:17 PM   #15
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It really depends on a women. I personally hate mystery and "wanting more" feeling. Been there, done that. It just makes me stressed, anxious and likely to close off and invest less.

I like the complete openess and transparency to the point of over-sharing. Anything less and I start to get a "shady" vibe which is a turn off. However being open and transparent is not even close to being enough. I need to be attracted to him, intellectually stimulated and for him to be funny.

The real trick is that there really is no game. It comes down to timing and mutual attraction. For men, if you are not doing well with women, you are likely not good looking enough, don't have a stable job and/or are socially awkward.
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