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The Wildfire of Sexual Harassment


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What do you all think is Sexual Harassment is and why is this coming out now, with all these people in the media are getting fired.

 

I am just getting to the point where there is so much confusion with men and women relating to each other, that its getting me frustratd.

 

Matt Lauer/Charlie Rose/Kevin Spacey. Why now and not in the past. sspically if your not working with them. Not to say its untrue how do you prove it. Even Trump got away with things and he is the President of the USA. I am Canadian

 

What is appropiate behaviour. Should men in the workplace make sure that they don't try to date any women. That would make their lives easier. We had two women in my workplace get involved with my male co-workers. If things went bad. What would happen.

 

If a woman is being hit on by a co-worker. She does not like it. Is that sexual harassment. My mom said that when she was being courted by my dad, he was agressive.

 

I guess I am different. I don't really pursue anyone in my workplace. Also. My buddy M. He dated and then married his wife and they worked together. 6 months after they worked together. She placed herself into another store with the same company. We all worked for the same place. I worked for M's Mother. Anyways. I think they did that, so the other co-workers would not think nepotism.

 

Anyways. I would like to hear thoughts on this. Basically, I think with this wildfire. An Office romance will be sqaushed or maybe the couple has to go to Human resorces and say they are dating and it a break up occurs they will let them no, so that any possible bad blood will not spill into the work place.

 

One thing on Matt Lauer. What type of proof do they have. Can anyone do this. Could Kelly Rippa say anything about Ryan Seacrest and get him fired.

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It's coming out now because women are finally being believed. Back in history when it happened, women weren't believed. Or were viewed as hysterical. Or given flowers as a pacifier.

 

Regarding office romances, the issues you describe with things going pear shaped is why many employers actively discourage dating between employees.

 

And yes, if a guy is hitting on a woman in a workplace and she doesn't like it, it's harassment. How is this even a question??

 

Regarding your parents, I can only assume that your mother was OK with your father's aggressive technique. It all goes back to whether or not both parties are OK with the status quo.

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Here's the discussion thread for the specific reports and it's getting long!

 

https://www.loveshack.org/forums/off-topic/current-events/642407-consolidated-political-public-figure-sexual-harassment-assaults

 

I guess I was lucky in that I had way too many rules during the roaring 80's and avoided sexual ambiguities in the workplace, and coke, and made it out of that era unscathed though with a dry noodle. Guys will do a lot to get a noodle wet. It's a male thing. If we look at all the perps, nearly all have had solid relationships, many have children and grandchildren and some of the objects of their sexual preference have and in some cases still do admire them.

 

So, is it worth it having a bunch of rules when there's a free for all whirling all around one? IDK. Will I get a cookie when I die for not diddling any girls or harassing or assaulting any women? Nope, I'll get dead, just like them. Heck, since they're rich I bet they'll live longer and better to boot. Ain't life grand?

 

One thing I do recall is marked resentment, at the time, for women blowing by me and guys like me to get at these guys and then supplicating to their dominance. Now, meh, it is what it is. One thing is for sure, KISA is out the window. I don't act as a complaint box anymore for women grousing about their diddlers of the past. They made their choices. I give them the exact same empathy they afforded me. Zero.

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One thing on Matt Lauer. What type of proof do they have. Can anyone do this. Could Kelly Rippa say anything about Ryan Seacrest and get him fired.

 

Those are good questions. Also why aren't the women's identities public? Are they underage?

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Those are good questions. Also why aren't the women's identities public? Are they underage?

 

General comment because I don't know about the overseas cases.

 

In the latest scandal here, the women have gone VERY public.

 

In other cases, perhaps keeping the woman's name quiet could well have to do with protecting her from further trauma. Imagine going through extreme harassment and then being subjected to trial by internet trolls.

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Its getting to the point where people have to really watch how they come across. I liked a woman at the gym. I asked her out for lunch. She accepted.

 

I have a crush on hr. Within 10 minutes. I asked if she was married. She said she was. I dropped any more romantic hints of anything between us. We are gym friends. I even talk to her husband there.

 

With Matt Lauer. I wonder if they have E-mails and specific dates if that would make a difference. It has to be concreate.

 

I just think that Men should just not date in the workplace and be a little bit more stoic. One never knows what state one is in.

 

If one guy jokes around with a woman and she is into him. No problem. If another guy does. She is not into him. Its Sexual harasement. Thats what my mother has said to me in the past.

 

To me Sexual Harassment is someone in power forcing their subordinate to do something unconfortable. If they don't comply. Then there is a problem.

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Members, if you'd like to discuss specifics of celebrities and/or political figures currently under investigation or accused of sexual misconduct, there is a consolidated thread to discuss that.

 

If you'd like to discuss sexual harassment/assault and/or its effects on your own relationships, this thread in GRD is the place for that, presuming you don't wish to start a specific thread on your situation in our Abuse forum. A member alerted moderation to merge this into the larger thread but I decided to leave it stand for members to discuss their own interactions with sexual assault/harassment.

 

Thanks!

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How come its never the other way around. Women sexually harassing men and no man has come out to say anything.

 

 

From birth we are bombarded with Sexuality. At a young age, we absorb behaviour from our social environment. If your father/uncle older brother is brash and gets away with it, from the females in your life. Guess what you will lean towards.

 

At age 46. For me. I guess I am a bit different. If I was a boss. I would never just try to bed my subordinents. Even the many women I come across. I don't even really have the energy to try to date or inquire about them as a romantic prospect.

 

That just does not compute in my brain. Unless a woman is really sweet to me and is coming towards me and I don't have to do much leg work. I don't view them in a romantic light. Maybe in my head, I may say they are pretty, but thats about it.

 

I think all guys interacting with women in the workplace. If you want peace of mind. Date outside the workplace and even if she wants to date you. I guess make it a case by case situation. One of my co -workers was fooling around and hugged my female co-worker so hard, it gave her a cracked rib and she was off for a week. My other co-workers were aggitated by that.

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If one guy jokes around with a woman and she is into him. No problem. If another guy does. She is not into him. Its Sexual harasement. Thats what my mother has said to me in the past.

 

To me Sexual Harassment is someone in power forcing their subordinate to do something unconfortable. If they don't comply. Then there is a problem.

 

Your mother is wrong. Sexual harassment has a sexual component. It's about Unwanted Sexual Advances.

 

If we change your statement to "If one guy jokes around sexually with a woman and she is into him. No problem. If another guy does. She is not into him. Its Sexual harassment". Then you've got it right.

 

Sexual harassment can be perpetrated by peers, not just superiors. If I had a coworker who was making unwanted sexual comments or innuendos towards me, then it's harassment. I'm in the office to work, not there as a piece of meat to be hit on.

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I asked my former coworker if I ever made her feel harassed and she said he'll no. I made the day fun. There needs to he clear standards on what is harassment because pretty much any socialization between men and women can fall under these vague rules.

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Woggle your exact on the money with this. I guess the only way for Sexual Harassment not to exist is for all workplaces to basically have same gender for the most part. Have tasks that don't need two people to deal with. No work parties or get togethers or anything like that.

 

Go to work. Perform your duties and go home. No dating co-workers or anything like that at all. Lets make work a barren sterile place to work in.

 

Sexual Harassment is murky at best. Thats why there is a lot of anger around it.

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I asked my former coworker if I ever made her feel harassed and she said he'll no. I made the day fun. There needs to he clear standards on what is harassment because pretty much any socialization between men and women can fall under these vague rules.

 

Pretty much any socialization? That's just ridiculous. If a coworker and I are discussing what we did/plan to do on the weekend, it's not harassment in any shape or form. If you could have the conversation with your aunt, then you can have the conversation in the office. *unless you have a very weird aunt

 

A good dose of commonsense (not using innuendos, not making sexual comments or advances, not bothering someone who does not willingly return your conversation/replies in two word answers) should pretty much cover it.

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Sexual Harassment is murky at best. Thats why there is a lot of anger around it.

 

As a woman, I find it alarming when men say that sexual harassment is murky. I can only surmise that these men don't understand the basics of where sexual/unwanted contact begins and ends.

 

That said, I can see that someone who has a social skill impairment would find it confusing. But that's not to say it can't be taught and learned.

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BarbedFenceRider

I had a weird case while working for a large retail company...After serving in the military, I had a bearing that left me with women in the workplace was a "NO-GO". I had 2 female employees under me that had it in for the store manager (female -my boss). They called the company's "aware line" and related of a sexual story between my boss and myself. I had no idea this had taken place and a written transcript was handed to the boss.

I ended up being called into her office along with the HR employee (female) as well. The boss hands me this paper and asks me to read it out loud. The HR lady shut the door to the office and I proceeded to read the illicit text. My God, was that embarrassing. I'm a few years married, with a newborn in tow. And I'm stuck in the boss' office with no way out and reading what was essentially fabricated porn....

Obviously, we both understood the employees who had called the aware line, and that I had not done anything to the boss, but it was still embarrassing. Also, the fact that I did not have a corresponding male witness present in the office really put me off. It could have gone very differently, and that scares me to this day.

In my position in security now, I do not do any conversations with females out of camera view or recording while on company site. Just good sound policy. Lots of friendly people comment that I do not interact with females the same as males here. I have to apologize and state that its for my protection as well as theirs... Sorry way to live these days, everyone is suspect now. Gosh, if I was single now....Not in a million years. Too much at stake.

Edited by BarbedFenceRider
added female to give clarity.
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When my best friend and I started our respective businesses back in the 80's, he got some really good advice from his then new attorney, advice that I got the benefit of free of charge. The attorney said basically he could pay him a little now for some specific legal advice to follow and save a lot in attorney's fees down the road or join the free for all and roll the dice.....

 

Hence, there was a very comprehensive employee handbook published with detailed sections on employee interactions and behavior. Also, as long as he owned the business, the attorney advised never being in the same room with a female employee without a witness, preferably female, whether on the property or not. If they're an employee, they're an employee everywhere, even away from work. That rule also extended to male employee's girlfriends or spouses, regardless of how innocent or casual the interaction may seem.

 

That advice paid off very well for him in the 30+ years of growing a corporation. It helped me understand what a minefield having female employees in our industry was so I never hired any and interacted with spouses/girlfriends only when their partners were there.

 

That's the price good men pay for the crudity in our gender.

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Men don't get sexually harassed on a regular basis. So its murky for us. Everyone has their own definition.

 

To me Sexual Harassment is touching a woman who you have no romantic bond with. Or talking about sexual things and linking them to you.

 

When the word sexual harassment comes up. We all know its Man trying to coerce a Woman into some sort of initmate situation with him.

 

Then again. Some women like the provocative talk and the women in my department talk about everything. The men are usually the conservative one. When I get to work. I go into it right away. I don't socialize until mid shift. I want to be a head of everything. My other co-workers, it seems to me, want to chill and gab.

 

There is such mixed messages in our world today. Do you kiss or not kiss on a date. What if you do like a co-worker romantically. Do you tell them or try to flirt. If you flirt is it sexual harassment or being playful. What if the woman has a crush on the guy.

 

Its all mixed up. Once again SH, to me is unwanted physical attention. Its just best for men to date out of the workplace if possible.

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Sexual Harassment is murky at best. Thats why there is a lot of anger around it.

 

I actually think the anger is because of the onerous rules put in place around sexual harassment. Thing is though, these rules exist BECAUSE some men find it murky. If those men had a basic understanding of what unwanted attention looks like, then we wouldn't be in the mess we are.

 

If you wouldn't say it to your cell mate, don't say it to a female coworker/student. It really is this simple.

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Then again. Some women like the provocative talk and the women in my department talk about everything. The men are usually the conservative one. When I get to work. I go into it right away. I don't socialize until mid shift. I want to be a head of everything. My other co-workers, it seems to me, want to chill and gab.

 

There is such mixed messages in our world today. Do you kiss or not kiss on a date. What if you do like a co-worker romantically. Do you tell them or try to flirt. If you flirt is it sexual harassment or being playful. What if the woman has a crush on the guy.

 

Bingo. Again, the key is UNWANTED. The women are fine with the conversations and willingly engage. Therefore, it is not harassment.

 

Mixed messages have always been part of life because different people like different things and have different boundaries. It's nothing new. What is new is the expectation that people will read the vibe of those around them and act accordingly.

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You know what this Wildfire of Sexual Harassment is going to to. Its going to make employers seek out same gendered employees.

 

If you can hire a man over a women, even if the women is more qualified you will do it. Or hire the woman in a isolated capacity where there is little interaction with men.

 

I have noticed that my male friend that have Spouses/GF. With the exception of one. They have no female friends. I have Female friends and there is no problem.

 

With this Wildfire. I now have a very low insentive to ask out females at work on dates. They are going to have to come to me more.

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I know men generally like to think of women as soft, cuddly creatures who birth their babies but there are cold, steely-eyed manipulating thieves out there and employers, and men in general, should beware of them and their skill at using our propensity for thinking of women, even in the legal system, as victims to their financial and legal advantage. A job can become a cash register, and does for some. Expert manipulators and lie like a rug.

 

BTW, the employee handbook was neutral on gender. Women can get written up and fired for similar breaches of conduct. No BOTD. You're outta there. No presuming a man likes comments on his junk. ;)

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You know what this Wildfire of Sexual Harassment is going to to. Its going to make employers seek out same gendered employees.

 

If you can hire a man over a women, even if the women is more qualified you will do it. Or hire the woman in a isolated capacity where there is little interaction with men.

 

I have noticed that my male friend that have Spouses/GF. With the exception of one. They have no female friends. I have Female friends and there is no problem.

 

With this Wildfire. I now have a very low insentive to ask out females at work on dates. They are going to have to come to me more.

 

No, excluding people on the basis of gender is discriminatory and will bring a mountain of litigation.

 

It's more likely that the majority of good men who do understand boundaries will get dragged into training sessions about appropriate behaviour because of a few who say they are confused by it all. And employers/educational institutions need to make sure that they offer their staff a safe environment.

 

And yes, don't ask women you work with on dates. Forget about harassment, it's just the basic rule of not defecating where you eat.

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BarbedFenceRider

Sexual harassment does go toward men. Respect has to be a 2 way street. Unwanted is a subjective word when culture and experience lead into it. Most companies have guidelines in place these days to limit this. But, as I said it is geared to protect women and mostly no thought goes into a man's view. JMO. I was locked in a room with 2 very agitated women with no egress capable and reading very illicit subject matter. By definition, it was harassment. She (boss) had power over me and used my subordinate status to her gain. I was uncomfortable and therefore, I do not place myself in those situations ever again. Red pill swallowed.

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