Female hypocrisy or just lousy personality?

[Logo]

I must have known this answer a while back, but I forget.

 

Why do some women gush at men who say brazen or even rude things to them when they perceive those men to be “cool”, even if that guy looks like a trashy thug or slob? But when someone they perceive as educated and well mannered says the same or approaches them the same way, they treat him with absolute disdain?

 

 

I used to be perceived as cool, but now I have a suspicion that I’m perceived as Mr. nice guy. Although I’m not sure.

[d0nnivain]

Perceived value / attraction.

 

When a woman likes a man she will put up with an awful lot, I'm afraid.

 

Look at the disdain with which many powerful men treat women yet all those women want the power so they let it happen to some extent. Whether through fear or genuine desire they don't speak up. In recent months the conversation is starting to change

[GemmaUK]

The actual cool guy is just pretty cool but is totally unaware of it, he isn't faking things to be a nice guy or a cool guy or anything.

He is human, gets it wrong sometimes but isn't a jerk.

 

Jerks are different. They are essentially actual jerks.

 

Nice guys who try to act like cool guys often end up with it not working at all because they aren't.

Nice guys who are self proclaimed nice guys are the worst, they are not good men, not cool and are actually jerks. It just takes a while longer to realise it.

[mortensorchid]

It's a very complicated thing.

 

I have been with so called "nice guys" who turn out to be otherwise. I have been with Bad Boys who turn out to be just what they are, which are losers. And nice guys who are ultimately losers, nice guys who are snobs, etc.

 

Remember this when dealing with women : Women go for Bad Boys due to double standards. I don't care what year you think this is or where we are in terms of "gender equality" or whatever other hippie nonsense they're trying to tell you that's the currant fad, there are double standards for women's and men's behaviors. Women as children are disciplined more, we are expected to behave ourselves - we have to be pure and virtuous. When women act up or get out of hand, the hammer of Thor comes down on her from all sources (parents, teachers, family, friends, the public, etc.) - Think of famous Hollywood Bad Girls (Paris Hilton, Lindsay Lohan, Kim Kardashian, etc.) and how we as the public put them down for their bad behaviors. When men act up or behave badly (ex. Charlie Sheen) we just say "well boys will be boys, won't they?" We as woman hook up with Bad Boys because it's appealing to our wants and needs to be bad. And when they, as Bad Boys (or, as I realize now, as losers) treat us badly, it makes us either feel bad or it makes us think we have to "fix something" about the man who says it or about ourselves.

 

I let go of that thinking a while ago. If I want to be bad, I can be as bad as I want to be. I do not need some loser who is always getting into fist fights, putting down my self esteem, throwing chairs through windows and calling for bail money bringing me down. What does that leave us with? Not much except looking for a man who deserves to be with me, bad or not. Bad Boys are more fun than a barrel of monkeys and they may be a tornado in the sack, but it's going to get real old real fast after a while.

[carhill]

I must have known this answer a while back, but I forget.

 

IMO, let go of an answer as any sort of absolute. It can change from second to second and there is no formula of understanding it.

 

Why do some women gush at men who say brazen or even rude things to them when they perceive those men to be “cool”, even if that guy looks like a trashy thug or slob?

Because they process what you observe through a ball of wire powered by emotion.

But when someone they perceive as educated and well mannered says the same or approaches them the same way, they treat him with absolute disdain?

Yup, same. There is no formula, program, logic, 1+1, whatever.

 

 

I used to be perceived as cool, but now I have a suspicion that I’m perceived as Mr. nice guy. Although I’m not sure.

Yup.

 

Think of everyone wearing unique glasses and seeing and describing you through unique lenses. Every view will differ. Your decision is whether on not you want to live your life based on what others see (perceive) and describe. When your time comes, the only person seeing you then will be you. Everyone else will have moved on if they haven't already before.

 

Nature is a cruel master. Sticks us with these reproductive urges and then kills us.

[smackie9]

Nice guys are doormats because they do too much to impress, like giving gifts, putting the girl up on a pedestal, and what you call jerks, are confident, out going, and like to take the lead. If you have a strong personality, some women don't care how you look. They like that kind of masculinity.

For women it's the opposite:

Guys prefer women to be a little vulnerable, pretty and feminine, but sex kittens in the bedroom, worshiping their man, stroke their egos. And most guys don't like women who are loud, forward, clearly independent overly strong headed, or don't put much effort into looking sexy.

 

So us women are stuck with the sigma too. Guys have expectations in what attracts them to us. If we don't bother to comply we are sitting at home on a Saturday night too.

[kendahke]

Why do some women gush at men who say brazen or even rude things to them when they perceive those men to be “cool”, even if that guy looks like a trashy thug or slob? But when someone they perceive as educated and well mannered says the same or approaches them the same way, they treat him with absolute disdain?

Because they want to and they are free to do so.

 

At the end of the day, every single one of us--you included-- is entitled to our preferences in who we consider to be attractive. What we aren't entitled to is to override another person's autonomy and agency to determine their own lives just because we like them or want their attention.

 

It really doesn't make a difference if you're of the opinion of how well this or well that you are---that's to you, not them. Opinions are like navels--everybody's got one.

 

Their life experiences have helped to shape what they like and what they are looking for in a guy and they are entitled to both the life experiences and to their preferences.

 

No one is owed the attention of someone just because they think they're all that and a bag of chips.

[basil67]

Give some examples of "brazen or rude things"

 

One person's brazen and rude could be another person's outgoing and funny. One of my friends is like that. I find her good company, quick with a great comment and more than a little rude.....but she would highly offend someone who's very conservative.

 

Edited to add: the phrasing you use to describe other people's behaviour doesn't suggest you're Mr Nice Guy. I wonder if it's more about having become a bit staid or fuddy duddy. The cool guy isn't generally critical of the social behaviour or others because he's perfectly secure in himself.

Edited November 26, 2017 by basil67

[Logo]

Think of everyone wearing unique glasses and seeing and describing you through unique lenses. Every view will differ. Your decision is whether on not you want to live your life based on what others see (perceive) and describe. When your time comes, the only person seeing you then will be you.

 

 

So you're saying, be yourself, be comfortable with yourself, and you will attract the right person.

[stillafool]

Depends on who you consider to be the right person. Who are you trying to get?

[Logo]

I don’t understand the question.

 

The right person the person one sees himself or herself being with because they are compatible, trust each other and see long-term potential for their relationship.

[Logo]

 

I let go of that thinking a while ago. If I want to be bad, I can be as bad as I want to be. I do not need some loser who is always getting into fist fights, putting down my self esteem, throwing chairs through windows and calling for bail money bringing me down. What does that leave us with?

 

So it sounds like you've gotten past the stage of superficiality and moved on to seeking mature men who are level headed.

 

Bad Boys are more fun than a barrel of monkeys and they may be a tornado in the sack, but it's going to get real old real fast after a while.

 

You see, I don't understand these misconceptions. Why can't a well-mannered, well-spoken, mature man be considered a tornado in the sack and more fun than a barrel of monkeys?

 

I have been with women who would easily be perceived as "bad" only to find out they were cold fish in bed. And I have been with the stereotypical, innocent looking, naive, conservative woman who has been great in the sack.

[Logo]

Give some examples of "brazen or rude things"

 

One person's brazen and rude could be another person's outgoing and funny. One of my friends is like that. I find her good company, quick with a great comment and more than a little rude.....but she would highly offend someone who's very conservative.

 

I'm far from conservative, but I'm not a frat boy either or a jock. I think as men -- most at least -- we get past that stage at a certain age.

 

 

 

As for an example, here's one:

 

 

I could be at a bar, standing with my friends. Three feet away there could be a woman with her friends standing there and our eyes cross paths.

 

 

 

Being in a good mood, enjoying the evening and having a good time around everyone else who's having a good time, I would smile at her and she would give me a nasty look, instead of being friendly or at the very least civil and polite.

 

A few minutes later, a group of complete strangers would be around her and her friends, with one guy's hand all over her as though he owns her and she would be ok with it, smiling.

 

I know they don't know each other because they have been apart the entire evening until that point. And those men have been chatting up other women.

 

Worse yet, some of those men would be portly and a 4 or 5 -- if I were to rank their looks -- (So it's not about looks, at least not from my perspective) others would be unkempt and the women would look nice and well manicured, nicely dressed (nothing too risque), no tattoos or anything of the like (I'm not stereotyping, just giving my observations).

 

It's a pattern I have noticed with SOME women, so what gives? Are they simply not mature enough? Are they shallow? Are they looking for a quick lay? Are they buying the fake macho horse manure these men are feeding them? Note, I'm not referring to confidence, but superficial "tough guy" routines like bragging and bull****ting 8 days from Sunday.

[Yosemite]

It's a pattern I have noticed with SOME women, so what gives? Are they simply not mature enough? Are they shallow? Are they looking for a quick lay? Are they buying the fake macho horse manure these men are feeding them?

 

Those women know their motivations and they don't need to be justified to you.

 

It’s her life and she can hang out with whoever she wants. Your nice, mild mannered persona may not be what she’s looking for even though you find her attractive. Just because you find her attractive doesn’t mean that she's required to feel the same way about you and your niceness probably doesn’t add the bonus points that you think it does.

 

Maybe you need to try a more upscale bar.

[basil67]

I'm far from conservative, but I'm not a frat boy either or a jock. I think as men -- most at least -- we get past that stage at a certain age.

 

 

 

As for an example, here's one:

 

 

I could be at a bar, standing with my friends. Three feet away there could be a woman with her friends standing there and our eyes cross paths.

 

 

 

Being in a good mood, enjoying the evening and having a good time around everyone else who's having a good time, I would smile at her and she would give me a nasty look, instead of being friendly or at the very least civil and polite.

 

A few minutes later, a group of complete strangers would be around her and her friends, with one guy's hand all over her as though he owns her and she would be ok with it, smiling.

 

I know they don't know each other because they have been apart the entire evening until that point. And those men have been chatting up other women.

 

Worse yet, some of those men would be portly and a 4 or 5 -- if I were to rank their looks -- (So it's not about looks, at least not from my perspective) others would be unkempt and the women would look nice and well manicured, nicely dressed (nothing too risque), no tattoos or anything of the like (I'm not stereotyping, just giving my observations).

 

It's a pattern I have noticed with SOME women, so what gives? Are they simply not mature enough? Are they shallow? Are they looking for a quick lay? Are they buying the fake macho horse manure these men are feeding them? Note, I'm not referring to confidence, but superficial "tough guy" routines like bragging and bull****ting 8 days from Sunday.

 

I'm not seeing rude in his behaviour at all. Brazen, sure, but he's obviously got the kahoonas to pull off a strong move successfully. Yes, he was touching her but it sounds like she was consenting, so there's no problem with that. Besides, touch is one way to really break through.

 

As an aside, I read a study once where a planted cashier would 'accidentally' touch the hand of some of the people they were giving change to. The customers were surveyed about their shopping experience and the ones who were touched gave a higher rating to the store.

 

These women aren't shallow (especially given that you say the men rate low on a 1-10 scale) and unless you saw them go to a room together, you can't assume anything about sex. What I can tell you is that women tend to like ballsy men.

 

And a bar or pub after a few drinks is the perfect place to spout a bit of Good natured BS

Edited November 27, 2017 by basil67

[basil67]

I'm also curious where you see the female hypocrisy. Is this not just a matter of preference?

[Sweetfish]

I must have known this answer a while back, but I forget.

 

Why do some women gush at men who say brazen or even rude things to them when they perceive those men to be “cool”, even if that guy looks like a trashy thug or slob? But when someone they perceive as educated and well mannered says the same or approaches them the same way, they treat him with absolute disdain?

 

 

I used to be perceived as cool, but now I have a suspicion that I’m perceived as Mr. nice guy. Although I’m not sure.

 

 

Because being well educated and well mannered does not place you in an attraction zone.

[basil67]

Because being well educated and well mannered does not place you in an attraction zone.

 

To clarify from a woman's POV: Having education and manners doesn't stop a man from being attractive. But those two things alone are not enough. He still needs to be great company.

[Logo]

I'm also curious where you see the female hypocrisy. Is this not just a matter of preference?

 

 

What does being good natured and polite have anything to do with preference?

[basil67]

What does being good natured and polite have anything to do with preference?

 

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. And perhaps you don't understand me either.

 

Just wondering where you see the hypocrisy which you mentioned in your title.

[Logo]

Because being well educated and well mannered does not place you in an attraction zone.

 

 

I'm not necessarily talking about attraction as in physical or mental. I'm simply talking about women who equate a simple modicum of politeness with the other man interpreting it as attraction.

 

In other words, some women are insecure or lack the manners or maturity to communicate their lack of desire through simple sentences instead of behaving like a teenager on the brink of a hissy fit.

[Logo]

I'm not seeing rude in his behaviour at all.

 

 

See, what's not rude by one person is considered rude by another. It's just a matter of perspective. You might want to ask those women who throw around those accusations willy nilly.

[basil67]

I'm not necessarily talking about attraction as in physical or mental. I'm simply talking about women who equate a simple modicum of politeness with the other man interpreting it as attraction.

 

In other words, some women are insecure or lack the manners or maturity to communicate their lack of desire through simple sentences instead of behaving like a teenager on the brink of a hissy fit.

 

So now I need to ask: What do you mean by a woman "behaving like a teenager on the brink of a hissy fit?" Sounds like a heck of a lot more than a disinterested face in response to a smile.

 

Getting to the point of being on the brink of a hissy fit would usually be reserved for those who won't go away despite our clear lack of interest.

[Logo]

I have no idea what you are trying to say here. And perhaps you don't understand me either.

 

Just wondering where you see the hypocrisy which you mentioned in your title.

 

 

The hypocrisy is in the act of the selective treatment of people based on those women's level of interest. If a man where to give a woman the finger, for example, whenever a woman smiled to him, women would accuse him of having a bad attitude and being a miserable misogynist.

[basil67]

See, what's not rude by one person is considered rude by another. It's just a matter of perspective. You might want to ask those women who throw around those accusations willy nilly.

 

What women and what accusations? And I think you were the only one who saw those guys as being rude.