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what about this kind of retaliation?


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Last night was my bday and guy friend who I've been exclusive w for about three months was really sweet about celebrating it the day before with a really thoughtful gift and a very sweet card because he had to work on the night of.

 

So last night I drove three hours to go salsa dancing in LA completely by myself. He is, somewhat understandably, uncomfortable with me going out without him and dancing with and meeting a bunch of men. I have encouraged him to come with me to see that it's really not as bad as he fears, but he hasn't taken me up on it.

 

While I was at the dance hall, I had my phone in the car and I had texted him to tell him I was leaving it there. Otherwise it would've just been unattended in my purse hanging on the back of some chair while I was dancing. I had told him that I might stay as late as 1:00 or 1:30. When I got to the car, there was a text from him at 11:00 saying "how was salsa," as if it was a done deal. I read it but didn't respond because he has to get up at 4:00 for work and he works long hard days. I got home around 4:00 and threw myself in my bed not thinking about where my phone was. I had kind of expected him to text but I wasnt really thinking about it till I realized that I had left my phone in another room at like 6:30. He had texted a little after 4:00, something like, "I hope you had a great time." And I texted back right away.

 

So I texted at 6:30, then when I got up around 11:00, and again a couple of hours later. He didn't get back to me or even read those texts until he finished work at midnight tonight. All day long I checked and checked for texts from him feeling ****tier and ****tier about it. Till around 6 pm, I was thinking he'd text during whatever the next work break was. But he started his night job at 6 and I knew that by that time he'd have had his phone in his hand several times. He was just not texting me, or even reading my texts. It made me feel terrible all day.

 

I was kind of hoping and even believing that his phone must be lost or broken because surely he wouldnt do that to me. But when he finished work he sent me a text as if nothing had happened. I asked him if he was punishing me for not texting enough during/after salsa. He claimed no but in our two hour phone convo about it, he kept saying "well you didn't text me all night so obviously it's not that important." He was obviously punishing me.

 

I'm not okay with this. I am not okay with my guy purposely making me feel ****ty all day. But I don't know what to do about it. He is firmly denying it. I think I'd feel better if he'd admit it and acknowledge that it made me feel bad and that that was his intention. I feel like without that we can't agree not to do that **** to one another.

 

Am I making too big a deal of this? Or not enough? I will probably end up letting it go because I have said my peace about six times and Im not sure what more I can do. But I really think that if he plays these kind of games in the future, I'm going to lose feeling for him. That's just not how I want to relate to a SO.

Edited by grays
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Do you mean from both of us?

 

I do understand why he was bothered. I am normally very quick to text him back. And it was at a point in our relationship where things were really wratcheting up. I think it left us both feeling a little unsure.

 

As for me, does it seem over-dramatic for me to get upset? Would most people not be bothered? For probably the last three or four weeks he had called at least once during his workday and text several other times. After it became clear that something was wrong, I was totally distracted by it and feeling lonely the rest of the day. I think part of that was the recent changes -- it had all the sudden felt like we were going from a pretty casual thing to something more like boyfriend/girlfriend in the couple of days leading up to this. It felt to me like I was having that yanked away.

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I would be bothered by his lack of communication. I don't play those games either.

 

Would I make a big deal about this one event, no. The reason why... if I was him, I would not have been entirely pleased that my girlfriend chose to drive three hours on her birthday to go dancing with other men and didn't answer my text. You are free to do whatever you want and I know you said you were planning to stay late and wouldn't have your phone... I'm just saying... That would have caused me to worry about your safety and I think that you could have been more sensitive to that.

Edited by BaileyB
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I am sensitive to that, but not so much that Im gonna say, "oh, you cant be with me on my birthday so I'll just sit home and watch tv." My ex, who I was married to for 25 years, was so jealous that I stopped dancing six months after we met. I can't stop dancing three months into this or probably ever. Dancing is really really important to me. I actually got a celebrating my divorce tattoo a year after that says "I have been a dancer all along."

 

Anyhow, I am sensitive to it and I have thought, maybe because of that I should let this go. But as a general rule, I can't always take **** because I dance. I can't be made to pay for it with miserable days caused by what's basically juvenile jealous after. I would feel better about maybe hard conversations where we actually work through something the next day.

 

I really would love it if he came dancing with me, even just once. I know that it would make him feel so much better. It's not some sexy free-for-all. It's an art for that almost all of us take very seriously, not a way to get laid. I don't do it in clubs, normally, and I never drink and dance.

 

But yes, I think this time I will probably let it go because I know he was feeling insecure and uncomfortable. I got together with my ex when I was 19 and I was too young to realize that changing your life to accommodate your partner's insecurities can lead to losing things that I shouldn't have to live without.

 

Oddly, I never miss my ex even a little, but I often tjin, even three years out that it seems so wrong that he never saw me do this thing that makes my heart sing. I watched him play basketball a million times. Ive already seen this new guy play soccer 4 or 5 times. Thete has to be a way for him (or some man) to appreciate this in me.

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...I don't know. There is just something about Salsa dancing that raises my hackles. And I would be upset if my girlfriend chose to go out all day dancing with other men on her birthday instead of spending it with me - it would be telling me that she would rather shake her thaaang for other men, not me. I'd be hurt, and yeah, the passive aggressive way he reacted to it sounds about right for hurt feelings. Maybe, if I were him, instead of spending my bday with you, I'd go to the local strip club and let some of those ladies give me a bday lap dance - after I had accepted your expensive gifts, of course... It really sounds to me as though you are really, really, bad at understanding the male psyche.

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If he could have been with me I would have so much rather been walking on the beach or something with him. I had told him about my birthday weeks in advance and he didn't ask for the night off work. I would have been over the moon if he had. We did have an awesome night the night before. And I also drove 40 miles to spend two hours with him before I went. And interestingly, he was disappointed to see that I was wearing sneakers, workout pants, and a tee shirt because he assumed I'd be dressed all sexy at salsa. But that's what I wear to salsa. I wouldn't even go if I had to wear heels. Ick.

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I really don't understand. Why is it OK for you to not respond to his messages but it's not OK when he does the same to you? If being in contact was truly so important to you, you would have made time to check your phone and converse with him during the evening.

 

I'm seeing one rule for you and another rule for him. And to be fair, sometimes giving a partner a taste of their own medicine is a very effective way of getting your message across.

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Basil, I was dancing in LA, car parked blocks away. It wasnt until I got thre that it even crossed my mind that I didnt feel comfortable bringing my phone in. Maybe I had it coming. But the truth is that I was missing him all night and wanting to communicate with him. I should have texted him and maybe woke him up at 1:30 but I swear to god, he works two shifts most days and maybe once a week gets go sleep a full night. He normally sleeps 3 or 4 hours a night. It was the wrong call -- he told me he couldn't sleep all night worried about who i was dancing with. But I didnt know that. He didn't say anything about it nefore I left.

 

Its not that I think there should be different rules. I think I made a really bad call not texting him when I got to my car. But it wasnt out of meanness or carelessness. Rather than cutting me off to punish me, I think he should have said there was a problem.

 

Also, I have always, since day 1 texted him within minutes just about every freaking time he's texted me. The only time I don't text back is if Im asleep, like when he texts good morning at 5 am. He, otoh, has left me hanging for hours and hours, especially in those first few weeks. I have asked him why. I don't think a lot of people, and not him in particular, put their phone down for 5, 6, 7 hours at a time. But he wouldn't even look at my texts for that long.

 

Over the long haul I have been so much better about it and I have never tried to punish him over it. I have asked why, I have told him it makes me feel bad, like he doesn't care and sometimes worried that he's just on to the next. Interestingly, he's totally changed about it over time. Its been a long time now since he ignored me for 5 hours. Maybe that's because we've talked it through a lot. My guess is if I just did a tit for tat ignoring thing we'd have been over a couple of months ago. And we aren't working through this bday thing because he's refusing to admit he was bothered. He's literally claiming he was just busy at work all day while slipping in little snipes about how "why should he bother reading my texts when i didnt respond to his." But then immediately swears it wasnt punishment or retaliation, he was just busy.

Edited by grays
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Seriously, this whole thread is making me feel both like I can only have salsa or a boyfriend but not both, which feels so ****ed up to me AND that this is the wrong guy.

 

I just can't sit around feeling sad and worried on his whim. Yesterday was awful for me. Monday and Tuesday I was on top of the world feeling like I was really falling in love and like I was the luckiest woman ever. Then for the first half of yesterday it was slowly dawning on me that something was really wrong. By the time he called me at midnight I was just heart sick. When he told me he had had his phone with him all day all i could think was that he did this to me on purpose.

 

I really really was into him but just thinking about how willing he is to hurt me is turning it all upside down for me. I ****ed up but I would never purposely hurt him.

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Thanks for explaining further. I would be so much easier if he'd simply said "I text you often because I know it's important to you. I'm really hurt that you didn't do the same for me that night". I guess that words aren't his strong point.

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I think also for me one of the huge bonuses of having my marriage implode was learning how to be very honest about my feelings even if its scary. I dont think he wants to admit that he was sitting around worried I wasnt his. If he did, though, I could honestly say i have felt the same for him and i get it. But rather than having an understanding bonding moment we're butting heads.

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Seriously, this whole thread is making me feel both like I can only have salsa or a boyfriend but not both, which feels so ****ed up to me AND that this is the wrong guy.

 

I just can't sit around feeling sad and worried on his whim. Yesterday was awful for me. Monday and Tuesday I was on top of the world feeling like I was really falling in love and like I was the luckiest woman ever. Then for the first half of yesterday it was slowly dawning on me that something was really wrong. By the time he called me at midnight I was just heart sick. When he told me he had had his phone with him all day all i could think was that he did this to me on purpose.

 

I really really was into him but just thinking about how willing he is to hurt me is turning it all upside down for me. I ****ed up but I would never purposely hurt him.

 

If it's that important to you, then you need to talk with him if you haven't already and explain that. Ask how he feels when you drive to the club and go dancing. Ask what you can do to make him feel better about it.

 

It's not a choice of relationship or dancing. And, I definitely don't think you should give up your passion to please a man. But, I think you need to talk to him to learn why he was upset, why he didn't communicate, and to tell him how you feel - about the dancing and the no texting.

 

Try not to get too upset. Hopefully, this can be easily reaolved with some good communication...

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Seriously, this whole thread is making me feel both like I can only have salsa or a boyfriend but not both, which feels so ****ed up to me AND that this is the wrong guy.

 

I just can't sit around feeling sad and worried on his whim. Yesterday was awful for me. Monday and Tuesday I was on top of the world feeling like I was really falling in love and like I was the luckiest woman ever. Then for the first half of yesterday it was slowly dawning on me that something was really wrong. By the time he called me at midnight I was just heart sick. When he told me he had had his phone with him all day all i could think was that he did this to me on purpose.

 

I really really was into him but just thinking about how willing he is to hurt me is turning it all upside down for me. I ****ed up but I would never purposely hurt him.

 

Nobody is saying you can't have both, and from what I see, neither has he. The issue here is that he is insecure about you going to salsa alone with other guys around, but instead of calming his fears you changed up the established routine of communication and didn't text him back, that's why he's upset. And it seems like you were working very hard to excuse your behaviour to us. You'll leave your whole purse on a chair unattended but not your phone? C'mon...

 

You screwed up, and so did he by being passive aggressive. You both need to talk and own up to your ****, and you'll likely resolve it with no problems. And from then on you'll be more aware that he requires the level of communication from you that had already been established.

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I think youre right that changing texting behavior made it worse. If I hadnt been so quick to respond all along, a little waiting might not have felt wrong to him.

 

I did take my purse in because I'm diabetic and I needed my skittles in case I had a low blood sugar and my blood sugar tester. I took all of the stuff I really couldnt stand to lose out of my purse (insulin, phone, all of my cards other tan my license bc I wasn't sure if theyd card me, and all cash but 20 bucks) and left them in the trunk. I think other women probably do that. When I salsa near home I bring everything in because there are virtually no strangers there. But I just had no idea about this new place.

 

I think where I screwed up was in not texting him after. I am sure that that would've gone a long way toward making him feel better.

 

We seem pretty good today. I do have a lingering feeling like he's not as grown up as I'd be comfortable with in this kind of situation. Its a lot about insecurity and I have a lot of empathy for that and I've definitly felt very insecure at times. But since my divorce I've worked hard to not be that way and to be as open and real about how I'm feeling as I can.

 

So for example, I told him a while back when I was feeling bad because he wasnt reading my texts for hours at a time that when I hear his text alert, my face lights up and I want to know right away what he has to say. And I swear, I think he started seeing things differently because of that, in a good way. That was hard for me to say because it was so real and because conventional wisdom tells me that what I should be doing is pretending I'm not excited and should always wait at least 20 minutes to respond so he doesnt think I like him too much. I don't think he can stand to tell me that stuff, though but I would feel so honored if he did.

 

I am feeling better about him/us than I was a few hours ago. I hope that we can get past this sort of thing. But I am not going to put up with him intentionally making me feel bad.

 

It also sucks that we were on a real relationship high on monday/tuesday and then wednesday it seems we took several steps back. I want to get back to just feeling excited and crazy about him.

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I have two things to say to this:

 

1. If you have a trusting relationship, then there's no reason why you shouldn't continue to enjoy salsa. I'd be fine with my girlfriend doing this as long as I trusted her completely.

 

2. Next time, text him when you get out of the salsa place. It doesn't matter that you might wake him up. If he's worried about being woken up he'll put his phone on silent. If he chooses not to silence his phone then it means he doesn't mind hearing from you! And if he does mind being disturbed he'll learn for next time to silence his phone.

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I think youre right that changing texting behavior made it worse. If I hadnt been so quick to respond all along, a little waiting might not have felt wrong to him.

 

I did take my purse in because I'm diabetic and I needed my skittles in case I had a low blood sugar and my blood sugar tester. I took all of the stuff I really couldnt stand to lose out of my purse (insulin, phone, all of my cards other tan my license bc I wasn't sure if theyd card me, and all cash but 20 bucks) and left them in the trunk. I think other women probably do that. When I salsa near home I bring everything in because there are virtually no strangers there. But I just had no idea about this new place.

 

I think where I screwed up was in not texting him after. I am sure that that would've gone a long way toward making him feel better.

 

We seem pretty good today. I do have a lingering feeling like he's not as grown up as I'd be comfortable with in this kind of situation. Its a lot about insecurity and I have a lot of empathy for that and I've definitly felt very insecure at times. But since my divorce I've worked hard to not be that way and to be as open and real about how I'm feeling as I can.

 

So for example, I told him a while back when I was feeling bad because he wasnt reading my texts for hours at a time that when I hear his text alert, my face lights up and I want to know right away what he has to say. And I swear, I think he started seeing things differently because of that, in a good way. That was hard for me to say because it was so real and because conventional wisdom tells me that what I should be doing is pretending I'm not excited and should always wait at least 20 minutes to respond so he doesnt think I like him too much. I don't think he can stand to tell me that stuff, though but I would feel so honored if he did.

 

I am feeling better about him/us than I was a few hours ago. I hope that we can get past this sort of thing. But I am not going to put up with him intentionally making me feel bad.

 

It also sucks that we were on a real relationship high on monday/tuesday and then wednesday it seems we took several steps back. I want to get back to just feeling excited and crazy about him.

 

No offence, but he's not the only immature one here. You've been upset with him over the same issue before, so you're both text needy. Then you hurt him the same way by not returning his text in a timely, pre-established manner. He had every right to be upset, and have you ever considered that he maybe just didn't want to talk to you? Work was an easy excuse for him to take a breather rather than tell you he didn't want to talk to you, which I'm sure would have hurt more. Men are men, most of us don't instantly open up and spill out our emotions when we feel upset, so don't be so quick to think his silence is spite.

 

After something small like this hearing that you think you've taken steps back or don't feel the same about your relationship tells me you need to grow up. Like I said before, you both screwed up, so if you like him and want to continue the relationship, get off your high horse and tell him how you feel and own up to your ****, because if something as trivial as this causes you to dump a guy, you'll be going through a lot of guys in your dating life.

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I think youre right that changing texting behavior made it worse. If I hadnt been so quick to respond all along, a little waiting might not have felt wrong to him.

 

I did take my purse in because I'm diabetic and I needed my skittles in case I had a low blood sugar and my blood sugar tester. I took all of the stuff I really couldnt stand to lose out of my purse (insulin, phone, all of my cards other tan my license bc I wasn't sure if theyd card me, and all cash but 20 bucks) and left them in the trunk. I think other women probably do that. When I salsa near home I bring everything in because there are virtually no strangers there. But I just had no idea about this new place.

 

So you aren't worried about being able to dial 911 if you have a diabetic emergency away from your car?

 

I think where I screwed up was in not texting him after. I am sure that that would've gone a long way toward making him feel better.

 

We seem pretty good today. I do have a lingering feeling like he's not as grown up as I'd be comfortable with in this kind of situation. Its a lot about insecurity and I have a lot of empathy for that and I've definitly felt very insecure at times. But since my divorce I've worked hard to not be that way and to be as open and real about how I'm feeling as I can.

 

So for example, I told him a while back when I was feeling bad because he wasnt reading my texts for hours at a time that when I hear his text alert, my face lights up and I want to know right away what he has to say. And I swear, I think he started seeing things differently because of that, in a good way. That was hard for me to say because it was so real and because conventional wisdom tells me that what I should be doing is pretending I'm not excited and should always wait at least 20 minutes to respond so he doesnt think I like him too much. I don't think he can stand to tell me that stuff, though but I would feel so honored if he did.

 

I am feeling better about him/us than I was a few hours ago. I hope that we can get past this sort of thing. But I am not going to put up with him intentionally making me feel bad.

 

The man who never makes his woman feel bad doesn't exist... deep down, we are all boorish slobs.

It also sucks that we were on a real relationship high on monday/tuesday and then wednesday it seems we took several steps back. I want to get back to just feeling excited and crazy about him.

 

Truthfully, I am not feeling that this is going to be a successful long term relationship... My advice is that after this one runs its course, make sure the next guy you date likes Salsa, but be prepared for the consequences in that case as well .

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Did I read this right? You did six hours of driving just to do some salsa at a club?

 

I like salsa, it's fun. It's also an excellent place to hook up, the dancing, touching and intimacy makes it easy to happen.

So whether or not this is a reason you like salsa, a lot of guys will have that thought in the back of their minds.

Especially when a girlfriend is out till 4am alone doing it.

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Kbob, I feel like you havent been reading the same thread I am. Of course I have thought about the fact that he might not have wanted to talk to me. That is the entire issue here, feeling like he doesn't want to talk to me. Why would I have felt bad otherwise???

 

And why do you think Im dumping him? Im not dumping him. Nothing like that. But it is true that I don't want to have a ltr with a guy who's willing to make me feel bad on purpose. And you seem to think that makes me a bad person??? Because seriously if I came here five years from now and said my boyfriend is purposely making me feel like **** and he's been doing it since practically day one, wouldnt you say why on earth are you with this guy? And probably blame me for accepting that treatment and staying with him?

 

Not dumping him. I really like him. I will be very sad if it ends. BUT I'm not so desperate for a boyfriend that I'm willing to have someone treat me badly. I am hoping that its something we can work through, but if we cant and he continues to act this way, I'd rather just chill on my own. I don't need my loved one's punishing me and trying to hurt me.

 

Poutrew, I agree that no guy is perfect and Im not perfect either. And it's a good thing to be reminded of. I just dont want to get in too deep with someone who's not going to be kind and loving even if things are feeling uncomfortable.

 

If I'd have had a diabetic emergency (which has not happened in the 25 years Ive had diabetes), I would probably have just asked one of the other 300 people at the dance hall to help.

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But it is true that I don't want to have a ltr with a guy who's willing to make me feel bad on purpose.

 

Hang on, slow down with the assumptions.

 

You don't know that he was doing this to make you feel bad on purpose. It's entirely likely that he was upset and needed space to work through his feelings. Not that I condone taking space without explanation, but it's quite likely that he wasn't *trying* to make you feel bad.

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If you feel this bad that he's not texting you back while he's working, Imagine how he felt when you were out dancing with dudes till 4AM... just saying. If he's gonna let it go, then you can too.

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But I really think that if he plays these kind of games in the future, I'm going to lose feeling for him. That's just not how I want to relate to a SO.

 

You don't need to say you're outright breaking up with him, or you haven't yet, but you're sure setting it up in your head that that's the way it's going. If you read what you're putting out there you'll see that you're already building up that wall. It's this quote and saying that you're off your relationship high and have taken a few steps back in it, it's all so negative, and even before there's really that big of an issue. If you sow all of this negative energy about your relationship, that's what you'll reap.

 

I see this as a very trivial issue. Until you have a talk about it and it becomes a very big issue, it isn't a very big issue. Calm down, it's not quacking like a duck just yet ;)

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If I may, and you may really disagree with me so take this with the kindness that it is intended... When I read your comments, I feel like your experience in your previous marriage is still affecting your current relationship.

 

From what I know... You were in a bad marriage for a really long time with a man who was not a loving husband and you felt isolated, stuck, and you lost your power. Since having left the marriage, you have totally gone the other way... Living free as a bird, engaging in various sexual relationships, enjoying the freedom and independence of your newfound single life. And, that's great! But, I feel like you have gone from one extreme to the other...

 

And now, you have met a wonderful man and there is the possibility that something more serious is developing. You are enjoying this budding relationship, but you are very much on guard... you are watching and waiting for any sign that he will be like your husband and that you will lose this newfound independence and freedom - which you are protecting fiercely! You are ready to assume the worst (that he is playing games by withholding communication or trying to make you feel badly and punishing you) and possibly end this relationship at the first sign of a problem.

 

The thing is... healthy relationships happen somewhere in the middle. It's not one extreme or the other. Healthy partners and healthy relationships will allow you the freedom to maintain your independence while still loving, communicating, showing consideration, and supporting each other.

 

Tell me if I'm wrong, but I feel like you need to find that balance...

Edited by BaileyB
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I think you are 100% right Bailey. I am very much afraid of falling in love and then realizing that my partner is treating me badly. My ex was very generous-hearted in some ways and I completely fell for that. And then the other stuff started to become more apparent. This guy is reminding me of my ex but I don't think it's because he's really like him. I think it's because we are behaving and feeling in ways that I haven't since I fell in love w ex.

They are the only two guys who've ever really acted that way with me. But I think its probably pretty normal feelings/behavior for a guy who's feeling serious.

 

I do get my hackles up when things don't feel right. I told him yesterday that I need to spend a little time with him to sort of reset my mood and I'm going to meet him after he's done with work tonight. I do think as soon as I see his face I'll feel like it's totally in the past.

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