Power dynamics in relationships

[Southern Sun]

What is your experience with the balance (or imbalance) of power in your romantic relationships?

 

I've been working with an IC who told me that there is almost always at least a subtle (or not so subtle!) imbalance of power in all romantic relationships. I am not really referring to who makes the decisions, who makes more money, who handles the child-rearing, etc. I am talking about the feeling that one partner usually 'needs' the other more in a romantic/love and affection sense. And how that feeling can sometimes create neediness or insecurity in that partner (especially if the disparity is larger).

 

This has been an issue in my marriage for years, far before my affair. I can recall that I felt like the needy/insecure one in the very beginning of our relationship. But even before we married, something changed, and my husband took that position. And it has been that way ever since (nearly 20 years).

 

Honestly, I don't like it. There are times it is less noticeable. Of course it became VERY noticeable after my affair. I don't know how to change it, and my H acts out because of it.

 

I have to think this changes for people depending upon the relationships they are in. In my affair, MM and I constantly exchanged roles. He had the power, and then I tried to yank it back. I would say he mostly maintained the power role. I felt like the person in the submissive role overall. It was strange because it isn't how I knew myself.

 

Thoughts about this, and how it is different inside different relationships? And does it change for you over time inside the same relationships? How does this dynamic help or hinder your relationships?

[CptInsano]

The power balance is always there, and it will shift during the relationship. There will also never be a perfect balance. The only advice I have is to be very upfront about it. The worst that can happen is to build that silent resentment fueled by the feeling of being powerless, when in fact many aspects of a (healthy) relationship can be negotiated, at least based on my experience. But I've always been with women about as strong-willed (or pig-headed) as I, which made it easier to have a constructive argument.

[BluesPower]

What is your experience with the balance (or imbalance) of power in your romantic relationships?

 

I've been working with an IC who told me that there is almost always at least a subtle (or not so subtle!) imbalance of power in all romantic relationships. I am not really referring to who makes the decisions, who makes more money, who handles the child-rearing, etc. I am talking about the feeling that one partner usually 'needs' the other more in a romantic/love and affection sense. And how that feeling can sometimes create neediness or insecurity in that partner (especially if the disparity is larger).

 

This has been an issue in my marriage for years, far before my affair. I can recall that I felt like the needy/insecure one in the very beginning of our relationship. But even before we married, something changed, and my husband took that position. And it has been that way ever since (nearly 20 years).

 

Honestly, I don't like it. There are times it is less noticeable. Of course it became VERY noticeable after my affair. I don't know how to change it, and my H acts out because of it.

 

I have to think this changes for people depending upon the relationships they are in. In my affair, MM and I constantly exchanged roles. He had the power, and then I tried to yank it back. I would say he mostly maintained the power role. I felt like the person in the submissive role overall. It was strange because it isn't how I knew myself.

 

Thoughts about this, and how it is different inside different relationships? And does it change for you over time inside the same relationships? How does this dynamic help or hinder your relationships?

 

I think it is best if it is more equal... and new GF has commented about how much we love each other and how equal it is.

 

I probably have more power over all I guess but not much. I think the power comes from the fact that one partner is not willing to deal with or accept any BS. And she knows that is where I am at.

 

I have been honest about Ex's and my past in general, not numbers but broad strokes, and more detailed info about Ex's that seem to hang around too much.

 

The thing is at this stage of life, as harsh as it is for me to say, women get exactly one chance with me. (Maybe more in a really LT relationship).

 

If some thing happens and it is not addressed immediately, cleanly and honestly, they are gone.

 

Not that easy in a marriage, I get that, but for me I am just too old to waste time with BS of any kind...

[Southern Sun]

I think it is best if it is more equal... and new GF has commented about how much we love each other and how equal it is.

 

I probably have more power over all I guess but not much. I think the power comes from the fact that one partner is not willing to deal with or accept any BS. And she knows that is where I am at.

 

I have been honest about Ex's and my past in general, not numbers but broad strokes, and more detailed info about Ex's that seem to hang around too much.

 

The thing is at this stage of life, as harsh as it is for me to say, women get exactly one chance with me. (Maybe more in a really LT relationship).

 

If some thing happens and it is not addressed immediately, cleanly and honestly, they are gone.

 

Not that easy in a marriage, I get that, but for me I am just too old to waste time with BS of any kind...

 

I would far rather it be more equal but I can't make it be. I don't want to be in the position I am in. It is like it just happened this way. Sure, I don't want to be in a one-down position either. I've felt it and it's very disconcerting. It just seems like I simply need less from my H than he needs from me...in a romantic sense. Which automatically puts him in a place of wanting.

 

He is constantly unhappy and I feel fine. So I am always having to strive to come up to his level. Yet it never feels enough.

 

It is really pretty frustrating. He has torn me down (called me cold, not affectionate, unloving, prickly) over the years...and worse, just because I don't need what he does (I am not referring to sex). It is like he feels powerless, so he gets back at me by telling me I'm terrible. I am kind of sick of it.

 

If he would only stop...and just BE...if I felt less overwhelmed by him...I think it would change things entirely. We've discussed this. It never happens.

[Imajerk17]

My answer has two parts:

 

1. This is my take for the *general* question. (I assume we are talking MARRIAGE here.)

 

Well, at the end of the day, love is a VERB more than a FEELING. There may be seasons where you might feel more attracted to your partner and vice versa, but it is the job of both of you to try to smooth out those swings--e.g., being there for your partner for some of the times where you feel like pulling away. The flip side to this is that it is also the job of both of you to do what keeps the other partner attracted--making an effort to look good, romancing your wife, keeping the other person happy in the bedroom, ect

 

[]

Edited November 15, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Off topic content redacted and member moderated

[Cookiesandough]

"The one who cares the least..."

[William]

As a reminder, the topic is power dynamics and LoveShack.org has had a long standing guideline about bringing up off-topic content and that contained within past discussions without proper and specific attribution. In fact, it's announced at the top of every forum.

 

Good topic, power dynamics in relationships. Stick to it. Thanks!

[Southern Sun]

My answer has two parts:

 

1. This is my take for the *general* question. (I assume we are talking MARRIAGE here.)

 

Well, at the end of the day, love is a VERB more than a FEELING. There may be seasons where you might feel more attracted to your partner and vice versa, but it is the job of both of you to try to smooth out those swings--e.g., being there for your partner for some of the times where you feel like pulling away. The flip side to this is that it is also the job of both of you to do what keeps the other partner attracted--making an effort to look good, romancing your wife, keeping the other person happy in the bedroom, ect

 

[]

 

Appreciate the comments.

 

I think #1 is what you strive for and keeps things fairly well-balanced. In my M, even when things were more balanced, I believe we STILL had a dynamic where, overall, I held the cards a little more. I just can't imagine an R where everything is perfectly egalitarian all the time. Can you? I guess I am trying to understand others' perspectives about this by posting this thread.

 

When things get off-kilter (like they are with my H and me), I can't figure out how to restore them. You are mostly right about my desires to remain married. But I also have a hope that I can restore my good feelings. I am not forcing my H to "settle" for anything though. That's the part I don't totally understand. If he is so unhappy with the state of things, I'm not sure why he continues to stay. I can only do so much about this. Ironically, I think he is the only one with the power to change this...not that he can *make* me feel anything. And I know I'm not perfect, by a long shot. But having been in the one-down position before, I know the best chance at turning things around is for THAT person to make changes in their attitudes and behaviors.

Edited November 15, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote edited to topical content

[BarbedFenceRider]

So, the power is actually with your BH and you don't like it...He is calling a dead fish a dead fish and is telling YOU exactly his needs in a serious relationship (ie. marriage) and your put off? That is what it sounds like.

It sounds like your BH is finally taking a red pill and seeing things is a new light. You call it for him to "just be". Ie take it that the relationship is nuked and learn to settle with second best. Boy that sounds like fun. If power is what you are needing, you are not gonna get it with this guy. He's burned. And those scars are a forever thing.

 

As for my wife and I, power is a give and take. I expect to fill traditional roles in the family and rely upon her support and strength during those uphill climbs. I am to protect her and the kids, and be the rock for stability in the family. It ends with me. I have to step up. But when it comes to employment these days, her role is viewed currently as having "more power". She earns more than me and is in a dynamic with friends and family that give her more movement. Me, not so much right now. That is what i'm dealing with...Her increase in power is opening doors that I soon stayed shut. Luckily I have all of LS to educate me and make wise decisions.

[BluesPower]

I would far rather it be more equal but I can't make it be. I don't want to be in the position I am in. It is like it just happened this way. Sure, I don't want to be in a one-down position either. I've felt it and it's very disconcerting. It just seems like I simply need less from my H than he needs from me...in a romantic sense. Which automatically puts him in a place of wanting.

 

He is constantly unhappy and I feel fine. So I am always having to strive to come up to his level. Yet it never feels enough.

 

It is really pretty frustrating. He has torn me down (called me cold, not affectionate, unloving, prickly) over the years...and worse, just because I don't need what he does (I am not referring to sex). It is like he feels powerless, so he gets back at me by telling me I'm terrible. I am kind of sick of it.

 

If he would only stop...and just BE...if I felt less overwhelmed by him...I think it would change things entirely. We've discussed this. It never happens.

 

Sorry but you miss the point...

 

It does not matter if the power dynamic was starting to change or not. And, can you remember if it started around the time that you may have been ripe for an affair, even if it was before the actual affair?

 

What you have to understand is, even if it started before the actual A, after the A, he was weak and he stayed with you. And if you admit it to yourself, you lost even more respect for him for staying than you did before and while you were having an affair. (Yes, yes you did...)

 

So now, you lose even more respect for him because he is needy, and unhappy, and yet you want to think it is not because of the affair... Dear it is because of the affair. It is because of what you did. And you don't even have enough compassion in you to see or try to understand that.

 

This is where you are going wrong in your thinking. You caused what you hate in your husband, and still you refuse to see it.

 

The fact is that you really, still, do not love your husband, and you don't respect him. Because if you did, you would find a way to fix it. You would find a way to somehow make him better, or you would divorce him so he would be forced to find a new love.

 

I know that you think I am talking out of my A$$, but take some time and really think about it. Not trying to dog you out, but it would be great for him if you could put yourself in his shoes.

 

He hates himself for staying with you. And he will probably hate himself for the rest of his days, but he is just too weak to choose another option.

 

And all the while you lose love and respect for him as he continues to hate himself.

 

Don't bother asking him about it, he does not realize it himself. Most men are too emotionally retarded to understand this kind of dynamic that is playing out inside him, he may never understand it.

 

But, deep down, he wants to get his balls back, but you cut them off and through them away when you had an affair.

 

Again, no disrespect, I just want to help you understand what is going on...

[carhill]

OP, do you feel your husband is emotionally retarded? Do you feel he is weak for remaining in the marriage? Strong? Why? How do your feelings in that matter affect the power dynamics in your relationship?

 

Having been down the road for awhile, IMO once one starts an accounting exercise in power dynamics or the marriage in general, it's effectively over, and the rest is paperwork. Sure, the paperwork might take awhile but the focus on power in any manner IMO spells doom for the health of the relationship. For those people on the planet who feel power is their reward in life, I wish them well in what awaits them. Good luck!

[Southern Sun]

So, the power is actually with your BH and you don't like it...He is calling a dead fish a dead fish and is telling YOU exactly his needs in a serious relationship (ie. marriage) and your put off? That is what it sounds like.

It sounds like your BH is finally taking a red pill and seeing things is a new light. You call it for him to "just be". Ie take it that the relationship is nuked and learn to settle with second best. Boy that sounds like fun. If power is what you are needing, you are not gonna get it with this guy. He's burned. And those scars are a forever thing.

 

 

I think you completely misunderstood everything I said.

[Southern Sun]

Sorry but you miss the point...

 

It does not matter if the power dynamic was starting to change or not. And, can you remember if it started around the time that you may have been ripe for an affair, even if it was before the actual affair?

 

What you have to understand is, even if it started before the actual A, after the A, he was weak and he stayed with you. And if you admit it to yourself, you lost even more respect for him for staying than you did before and while you were having an affair. (Yes, yes you did...)

 

So now, you lose even more respect for him because he is needy, and unhappy, and yet you want to think it is not because of the affair... Dear it is because of the affair. It is because of what you did. And you don't even have enough compassion in you to see or try to understand that.

 

This is where you are going wrong in your thinking. You caused what you hate in your husband, and still you refuse to see it.

 

The fact is that you really, still, do not love your husband, and you don't respect him. Because if you did, you would find a way to fix it. You would find a way to somehow make him better, or you would divorce him so he would be forced to find a new love.

 

I know that you think I am talking out of my A$$, but take some time and really think about it. Not trying to dog you out, but it would be great for him if you could put yourself in his shoes.

 

He hates himself for staying with you. And he will probably hate himself for the rest of his days, but he is just too weak to choose another option.

 

And all the while you lose love and respect for him as he continues to hate himself.

 

Don't bother asking him about it, he does not realize it himself. Most men are too emotionally retarded to understand this kind of dynamic that is playing out inside him, he may never understand it.

 

But, deep down, he wants to get his balls back, but you cut them off and through them away when you had an affair.

 

Again, no disrespect, I just want to help you understand what is going on...

 

How can we keep talking about this without making this entirely about my affair? Because I really don't want it to be.

 

However, I am not stupid...I KNOW much of what he's feeling now is because of my affair. And yes, I know that I've lost respect for him because of his reactions to my affair...ironically. Unfortunately these things are still happening. So even as we try to rebuild our relationship, he continues to do things to sabotage it.

 

He's hurt. He feels powerless. I am trying to make him feel more secure. There is little more that I can do. How do I rebuild respect for him when he keeps doing things that are unattractive and display neediness and lack of discipline and all sorts of other things? WHAT DO I DO.

 

(no need to point out how unattractive my affair was. i already know)

 

But you're wrong about when the power shift happened. It's been that way since right before we married. Which is the point of my thread. How does this affect relationships? I think it's done crappy things to mine. And I don't WANT to be in this role. You guys are answering me as if I am wanting to wield power or as if "power" is a bad word. It's not how I'm meaning it. I'm talking about the natural inclination for one person in a couple to need more from the other person. It is rarely perfectly balanced.

 

Maybe you'd like to think I really didn't have issues before my affair. But indeed...there were issues.

[Southern Sun]

OP, do you feel your husband is emotionally retarded? Do you feel he is weak for remaining in the marriage? Strong? Why? How do your feelings in that matter affect the power dynamics in your relationship?

 

Having been down the road for awhile, IMO once one starts an accounting exercise in power dynamics or the marriage in general, it's effectively over, and the rest is paperwork. Sure, the paperwork might take awhile but the focus on power in any manner IMO spells doom for the health of the relationship. For those people on the planet who feel power is their reward in life, I wish them well in what awaits them. Good luck!

 

I am not the one that points out the issue of power...it is my H.

 

He says that I make him feel small and worthless. He says he doesn't think I really want to be with him. He says his self-esteem is very damaged. He says he feels I am in control.

 

This makes me very uncomfortable. I am not aware of this on a day-in, day-out basis, until he has a melt-down and tells me these things (it usually comes pouring out during a fight with some alcohol mixed in, on his end).

 

I do not WANT to be in control of our relationship and I certainly don't want him to feel that I am. I don't like the idea that he feels powerless or small or in any sense a victim. Having his self-esteem damaged isn't good for him or our relationship. All of it is quite disconcerting.

 

So it is a feeling that HE has rather than one I have...if that makes sense. I am only aware of it because he continues to point it out.

 

From my perspective...I don't understand remaining in a relationship, and yet being unhappy. When I ask him what I do to make him feel worthless or small, he cannot say. Things are good now. This IS from the affair. So if things are going well, and he says there is nothing more I can do, yet he still feels this way, what is left?

 

To me, the only way this gets repaired is self-esteem work, because I am not in charge of anything. It is only his perception. I do not actually have - nor do I want - power. Is this making sense?

[BarbedFenceRider]

Well, actually I was looking from the side of your BH. And I don't understand that if you actually want to progress in R, you think YOUR feelings are paramount. Sorry, but their not. They do count, but they need to be checked. You lost that right. But your answer serves me well. It is all about you, you, you. There are lots of reading available here in LS that will explain this. Blues was spot on. Until, you get a good look in the mirror. Nothing will change. But ofcourse, you secretly want this no? Rather just check out? Let him make the first move? You can claim that you tried? I'm just saying for you to take a hard look at yourself. Then you and him can work on each others emotions and needs. But if you think you can sweep this under the rug and just move along...Nope.

[elaine567]

I think you do not respect your husband as he ceded power early on in your relationship and that annoyed you.

I guess you were attracted to your affair partner as he exuded power, but he was not really that strong, so it ended up being a continual tussle for the reins.

 

Back to the marriage your husband is even less powerful than previously and he doesn't like that one bit so he tries to gain control only to find the one that cares the least ie you, calls the shots...

I think when a BS decides to stay they lose power, even if they seem powerful and the WS is a sobbing mess, it all becomes eventually the "pick me" dance, with the WS doing the picking.

 

Seems to me when you observe the "pecking order" fights in animals all is usually calm if there is a definite bigger and stronger individual who leads and takes control, if there are a whole lot of similarly matched animals, they tend to keep having fights for supremacy...

 

Your AP may have been more powerful than your husband, but he was not strong enough for you, you were probably fairly equal in the power hierarchy so you ended up in continual power struggles.

I do not think you are cut out for "submission", you need to be in control, but you would prefer if your husband was a more worthy opponent, I guess.

[Southern Sun]

I think you do not respect your husband as he ceded power early on in your relationship and that annoyed you.

I guess you were attracted to your affair partner as he exuded power, but he was not really that strong, so it ended up being a continual tussle for the reins.

 

Back to the marriage your husband is even less powerful than previously and he doesn't like that one bit so he tries to gain control only to find the one that cares the least ie you, calls the shots...

I think when a BS decides to stay they lose power, even if they seem powerful and the WS is a sobbing mess, it all becomes eventually the "pick me" dance, with the WS doing the picking.

 

Seems to me when you observe the "pecking order" fights in animals all is usually calm if there is a definite bigger and stronger individual who leads and takes control, if there are a whole lot of similarly matched animals, they tend to keep having fights for supremacy...

 

Your AP may have been more powerful than your husband, but he was not strong enough for you, you were probably fairly equal in the power hierarchy so you ended up in continual power struggles.

I do not think you are cut out for "submission", you need to be in control, but you would prefer if your husband was a more worthy opponent, I guess.

 

Very interesting observations. I do think I desire a "worthy opponent" and would be happy if that was my H.

 

You are probably right about the submission thing. I didn't enjoy the power struggle between my AP and me. I didn't like that it was a notable issue at all. Respect is important to me - both giving it (if it's deserved, in my mind) and receiving it.

 

Whether AP was "powerful" enough, I don't know. There were lots of other issues.

 

I get that there might be a perceived loss of power if a BS stays...but maybe it's only HOW he/she stays? What if it's done with decisive action and bottom lines? I wonder if I would have felt different if he had kicked me out and/or filed for divorce...before agreeing to stay? Maybe the respect/power would be restored.

 

It just makes me wonder...what now.

[Els]

I think there are many finer aspects of your question - what sort of affection? Verbal, physical, sexual? What sort of need? What sort of insecurity?

 

IMO in most good relationships, it balances out to be somewhat equal. You can't be 50.0000000% on every single aspect, but most are fairly near the middle and the small imbalances even out as a whole.

 

(I am unaware of your posting history)

[Southern Sun]

I think there are many finer aspects of your question - what sort of affection? Verbal, physical, sexual? What sort of need? What sort of insecurity?

 

IMO in most good relationships, it balances out to be somewhat equal. You can't be 50.0000000% on every single aspect, but most are fairly near the middle and the small imbalances even out as a whole.

 

(I am unaware of your posting history)

 

It feels like there is long been an imbalance in the amount of physical affection he desires than what I naturally tend to provide.

 

Sex has at times been an issue. But on a long-term basis, he has generally complained about me not touching him as much as he would like, cuddling, that kind of thing.

 

I know for a fact that there was a major difference in how he was raised than how I was. Even when I think I am being affectionate, he doesn't think it's enough.

 

I suppose I was hoping to see more comparable experiences by posting this; that maybe this was somewhat normal. It appears that may not be the case.

[olivetree]

It feels like there is long been an imbalance in the amount of physical affection he desires than what I naturally tend to provide.

 

Sex has at times been an issue. But on a long-term basis, he has generally complained about me not touching him as much as he would like, cuddling, that kind of thing.

 

I know for a fact that there was a major difference in how he was raised than how I was. Even when I think I am being affectionate, he doesn't think it's enough.

 

I suppose I was hoping to see more comparable experiences by posting this; that maybe this was somewhat normal. It appears that may not be the case.

 

Hmm, I dunno this is tough because you're in a very longstanding pattern.

If I were him I would have grown tired of not having my needs met a long time ago and probably lost attraction to you.

 

Have you ever communicated to him what you are saying to us?

[nospam99]

If I was a faithful BH, I would feel lose-lose-lose:

- I wouldn't want to stay because of the A. Betrayal is what it is. For some men it permanently and irreparably breaks the M

- I wouldn't want a divorce. At least in my state, what's hers is hers and what's mine is hers.

- At that point, caught between a "rock and a hard place', I wouldn't want to honestly discuss it. I'd feel that anything I said could and would be used against me. So I'd say what I thought the WW wanted to hear and then crawl back into my foxhole

So I'd be permanently stuck in that broken M. No way out. No joy to be found in the relationship. Pretty damned depressing. I'd look for joy elsewhere. Some BH will cheat to 'get theirs'. That is all a matter of character. For me, I'd find a 'hobby'. If there are kids, it works for some to pour all their love into the kids, hoping for some love or fulfillment in return. A dog is another option along those lines. Some men of what I'd call 'weaker' character might turn to alcohol or something similar.

[Imajerk17]

Southern Sun, I hate to say this, but this thread could be retitled: I have no attraction for my husband and I haven't had it for many years and I feel really guilty about this, someone reassure me that this normal

 

And I hate to say this too, but the answer is no, it's not normal. Your trying to rationalize by saying that you just are not naturally affectionate isn't fooling anyone here. I hate to say this so much because it sounds that you feel really really guilty about this.

 

As for why your husband hasn't divorced you, it is because he is truly in love with you. You've seen for yourself on these forums how hard it is for many betrayed spouses to walk away. On the one hand, he is hoping against all hope that you will one day come back around. On the other hand, he is feeling extremely frustrated and rejected that his own wife isn't really feeling it and is just going through the motions. As far as where to go from here, I don't think this dynamic will ever change in your marriage. Unless, sad to say, your H finally has enough and asks YOU for divorce.

Edited November 17, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Comments to moderation while on moderation redacted

[Southern Sun]

Southern Sun, I hate to say this, but this thread could be retitled: I have no attraction for my husband and I haven't had it for many years and I feel really guilty about this, someone reassure me that this normal<snip>

 

 

Sigh. I give.

Edited November 17, 2017 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Quote truncated

[spiderowl]

I think there often is an imbalance but it can vary so much. On the surface, one partner can dominate and yet they can be denied what they most want out of a relationship. The underlying basis of the relationship is fundamental and not always spoken about, maybe because both partners can be unaware of its true nature. They feel but cannot define.

 

The power balance can change from day to day. One day, one partner can be trying to please the other; the next day, a little assertiveness on their part and it all changes. I think it is best if the balance is more or less equal and each know when they have gone too far in asserting themselves.

 

I would find a partner being controlling or dismissive intolerable. Anyone 'setting the ground rules' before we started would be equally unbearable. We all have our tolerances and red lines, but spelling them out beforehand shows a lack of trust and patience. Trust is built gradually by learning that you can rely on the other person to support you even when you are not at your best. Relationships are built on trust and familiarity.

Edited November 17, 2017 by spiderowl

[LivingWaterPlease]

Seems to me the best relationships, romantic or otherwise, are those in which both partners are looking to give up whatever power they have. Think it's called grace.

Edited November 17, 2017 by LivingWaterPlease