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Shortage of good men? or good-looking men?


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Saw this in another thread, but I'd be going off topic there so putting it in a new thread ...

There are many woman looking for love at that age.

 

I don't know where you live... but what I usually hear is there's a shortage of good men.

 

The age being discussed in that other thread was mid-40s. But I think the question is applicable to ANY age from 18 to 80.

 

And although this question has been 'beaten to death' in passing in several threads .... one mo' time. How high are women's standards? Are they looking for ... oh, I dunno .... Brad Pitt? George Clooney? Prince Harry? When a woman complains about not enough good men, how much does that really include physical attractiveness?

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Aye. Men also have a shortage of ''good women''.

 

To make a broader and also discussed to death point, people suffer from GIGS. Maybe women even more so, especially online.

 

You have a tiny flaw and you are done.

 

Many months ago, some woman online wished me ''good luck'' after a brief convo. You wanna know what I did wrong? Cooking dinner and not replying within 2 minutes.

 

Its impossible to build something with someone who doesnt know about basic courtesy and to the least patience.

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And although this question has been 'beaten to death' in passing in several threads .... one mo' time. How high are women's standards? Are they looking for ... oh, I dunno .... Brad Pitt? George Clooney? Prince Harry? When a woman complains about not enough good men, how much does that really include physical attractiveness?

 

In my experience the women that complain about this are the ones that go back to the same douchebag types every time and then whine about their situation. To me it seems like a lack of proper screening and self control than a lack of good men.

 

As far as men saying this, I haven't heard it a lot. Its usually more the case of men telling their friends to hang on to a good girl when they find one.

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I think it all depends. I see attractive people all the time. I think people don't put themselves out there enough.

 

Last night DH & I attended a Marine Corp birthday ball. There were more single attractive older Marine vets then I would have imagined. I would encourage any woman over 50 to go to Marine Corp league events, VFW or American Legion picnics / dinner dances.

 

DH & I have gone out in NYC to watch college football. Every bar we went into was packed with good looking single 20 somethings. I imagine any city has the same phenomenon. I remember bars outside of Philly being packed when their local teams were doing well.

 

From September through the end of the World Series any woman complaining she can't find a good guy isn't looking hard enough. Go to any sports bar during any "big" game & there will be tons of guys. Just because you met him in a bar does not make him an alcoholic; nor does his love of sports mean you will be a sports widow. It's mostly just camaraderie. Don't pick the die hard fan covered in body paint but strike up a conversation with the quieter friend who's just there to be one of the guys. For a woman who can ask an intelligent game related Q, picking up a guy in that setting is like shooting fish in a barrel. The M/F ratio is usually about 10/1.

 

People have to stop thinking OLD is the only way to meet people. The good catches are out being active, living their lives, not sitting home glued to their phones & laptops.

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In my experience the women that complain about this are the ones that go back to the same douchebag types every time and then whine about their situation.

 

^^ This!! There are quite a lot of older women I know (as in mid 40s) who are single, unmarried, childless women who just keep whining how they can't find a good guy and can't get married. But when you hear more, you find out they actually go around turning down men who they deem unattractive (even though they aren't Raquel Welch themselves) and keep hooking up with players.

 

 

To make a broader and also discussed to death point, people suffer from GIGS. Maybe women even more so, especially online.

 

You have a tiny flaw and you are done.

 

So that's part of the catch 22 of not hooking up early in life and marrying your g/f or b/f. When you are young, you have very few criteria and hangups. As you get older, the hangups and the criteria and the requirements list gets longer and you it becomes a reflex reaction to turn down anyone based on those the things mentioned above.

 

 

Its impossible to build something with someone who doesnt know about basic courtesy and to the least patience.

So there is one of them. What does and doesn't constitute "basic courtesy" and "manners" is modern society? Who is to say and where is it written exactly how you should or should not behave "courteously" with others? It's a total subjective statement that is entirely coming soley from the individual making the statement. I reminds me of a verbal fight I saw on the subway not too long ago. A young hip hoper kid came in the train playing their music on the bluetooth speaker (it actually wan't that loud -- it was just that he wasn't using headphones -- but whatever) and this other person attacked them verbally for being rude and uncourteous. The whole thing turned into a big shouting and screaming match that was much louder than the hiphop music the young person was playing. and the kid got off the train a few stops anyway.

 

If you are the type of person that has strong opinion on how other people should behave based on your own personal viewpoints, you may want to restrict yourself to only seeking out people who are very close to your age range, comes from your cultural and ethnic background and confirm they share your values.

 

Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a derogatory statement. It comes down to you need to know the type of person you are and you are not and you need to know whether you are capable (on incapable) of tweaking or adjusting your own points of view and be very forward about it with other people from the start.

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thefooloftheyear

Here is why you hear this more from women looking for good men vs men looking for "good" women...

 

For one....At the very basic there are probably 20 good looking women for every 1 good looking guy...Yeah, I know looks are subjective, but let's face it....A woman can be pretty homely, yet if she has a great body, she'll be desired...For guys, it wont work that way....If You're ugly, then that's pretty much what you are...

 

Then you add the fact that for a guy to be considered "good' by many or most women's standards, then he better have a good career...reasonable to exceptional intelligence, ample cock size and great sex skills, family oriented/at least willing to consider fatherhood/ability to be a soleprovider if kids are on the table..etc....

 

For most guys it's way more simple...Most guys are happy if they can find a reasonably attractive woman who isn't a nag[] , is relatively good natured and warm, won't cheat on them and won't get too fat...The rest of the other stuff that makes guys "good" isn't that important to many guys looking for a woman...

 

Once you take age into consideration, then the "good" guys really become Unicorns...Most are already taken and aren't leaving...The others are either out of shape beer gut types, bitter from being taken to the cleaners in a divorce, low test so not interested in sex/women all that much anymore, or they may be career students/ or weed smoking basement dwellers with no purpose or goals in life...As a guy just over 50, I really am surprised at the amount of my personal friends that either have zero interest in women anymore..or just content in their situations living with women they barely talk to let alone be romantic with, and bury themselves in their buddies, the ball games and hobbies..

 

I think women are generally more idealistic than men are, hence the constant crying of "no good guys"...they're shooting far higher than they should be for what they bring to the table or have been given some false sense of desirablility from guys who really had no other interest in them but for sex and they couldn't see the game...

 

TFY

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So there is one of them. What does and doesn't constitute "basic courtesy" and "manners" is modern society? Who is to say and where is it written exactly how you should or should not behave "courteously" with others? It's a total subjective statement that is entirely coming soley from the individual making the statement. I reminds me of a verbal fight I saw on the subway not too long ago. A young hip hoper kid came in the train playing their music on the bluetooth speaker (it actually wan't that loud -- it was just that he wasn't using headphones -- but whatever) and this other person attacked them verbally for being rude and uncourteous. The whole thing turned into a big shouting and screaming match that was much louder than the hiphop music the young person was playing. and the kid got off the train a few stops anyway.

 

You answered your own question. Seriously, I assume you read my post correctly. Someone who cannot wait for a very short time for a reply and tells me ''farewell'' isn't worthy of my attention. I moved on as fast as I could and any woman would have done the same in this situation anyway.

 

The hiphop kid thing is irrelevant to the topic, but Ive witnessed this more than once too. This is rude, more than anything posted on a dating site.

 

 

If you are the type of person that has strong opinion on how other people should behave based on your own personal viewpoints, you may want to restrict yourself to only seeking out people who are very close to your age range, comes from your cultural and ethnic background and confirm they share your values.

 

I rarely express 'strong opinions' here, not even in political forums, and to contradict your claim, I have since found a younger woman of a different cultural and ethnic background than me. But she indeed hold some of my values.

 

Disclaimer: This is not meant to be a derogatory statement. It comes down to you need to know the type of person you are and you are not and you need to know whether you are capable (on incapable) of tweaking or adjusting your own points of view and be very forward about it with other people from the start.

 

This I can agree with. I try not to ''date down'' nor do I ''date up'', we were discussing this lately on LS. I was merely pointing out a mishap with a woman online, to which you replied lenghtly.

 

After about 15 years of online and offline dating, I have a quick understading on who is going to be a match, and who isnt, to me anyway. Not that I am afraid of wasting time, but I want to click with someone, and have learned to move on fast to the rude ones, those lacking patience, etc.

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somanymistakes

And although this question has been 'beaten to death' in passing in several threads .... one mo' time. How high are women's standards? Are they looking for ... oh, I dunno .... Brad Pitt? George Clooney? Prince Harry? When a woman complains about not enough good men, how much does that really include physical attractiveness?

 

Are they really what we're supposed to consider highly attractive?

 

I mean, none of them are ugly, but neither are any of those three the kind of man that I would stop and stare at and go "wow, that guy is super hot".

 

They do have the benefit of being rich and famous, though, which doesn't hurt. :laugh:

 

I always thought Edge (the wrestler) was quite handsome, though I think some of that may be the character he put on. Fun to watch swaggering around... But I digress.

 

Funny thing, we've had threads in here before complaining about how women DON'T hold out for physical attractiveness, complaining that since most women when asked would say that personality and compatibility mattered more and the looks were just icing on the cake, men were sulking that this meant they couldn't trust women were actually attracted to them.

 

 

Sweeping generalizations are generally not very useful.

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When dating, you could say that the odds are good but the goods are odd.

 

 

That sums some of it up.

 

 

Over many years, I have found women very picky especially on dating sites.

That continues through the relationship.The TV show Seinfeld made this attitude worse.

I regret that I was so picky when I was younger and could get dates fairly easy. I did not take them seriously and it was mutual You only get one chance with someone.

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Saw this in another thread, but I'd be going off topic there so putting it in a new thread ...

 

The age being discussed in that other thread was mid-40s. But I think the question is applicable to ANY age from 18 to 80.

 

And although this question has been 'beaten to death' in passing in several threads .... one mo' time. How high are women's standards? Are they looking for ... oh, I dunno .... Brad Pitt? George Clooney? Prince Harry? When a woman complains about not enough good men, how much does that really include physical attractiveness?

good men = good looking, good personality, in shape, college degree, awesome job, no felonies, only 7 partners, dresses well

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[...]

And although this question has been 'beaten to death' in passing in several threads .... one mo' time. How high are women's standards? Are they looking for ... oh, I dunno .... Brad Pitt? George Clooney? Prince Harry? When a woman complains about not enough good men, how much does that really include physical attractiveness?

 

As common as this statement seems to be online, I've not heard this all that much from women IRL. Those who made such statements were either looking for something in particular (down to graduates from certain universities), or they were not all that attractive themselves, and used this statement more as a defensive mechanism.

 

Most people who are somewhat attractive are in my experience simply adjusting to the game, looking for somebody they are compatible with.

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I think it all depends. I see attractive people all the time. I think people don't put themselves out there enough.

 

Last night DH & I attended a Marine Corp birthday ball. There were more single attractive older Marine vets then I would have imagined. I would encourage any woman over 50 to go to Marine Corp league events, VFW or American Legion picnics / dinner dances.

 

DH & I have gone out in NYC to watch college football. Every bar we went into was packed with good looking single 20 somethings. I imagine any city has the same phenomenon. I remember bars outside of Philly being packed when their local teams were doing well.

 

From September through the end of the World Series any woman complaining she can't find a good guy isn't looking hard enough. Go to any sports bar during any "big" game & there will be tons of guys. Just because you met him in a bar does not make him an alcoholic; nor does his love of sports mean you will be a sports widow. It's mostly just camaraderie. Don't pick the die hard fan covered in body paint but strike up a conversation with the quieter friend who's just there to be one of the guys. For a woman who can ask an intelligent game related Q, picking up a guy in that setting is like shooting fish in a barrel. The M/F ratio is usually about 10/1.

 

People have to stop thinking OLD is the only way to meet people. The good catches are out being active, living their lives, not sitting home glued to their phones & laptops.

 

If you were single, and single women like you should not be

allowed to go fishing in bars alone. Dangerous you are.

Very dangerous.

 

:lmao:

 

Sometimes you give good advice.

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I think it's easy to have our perception skewed because people who have problems finding/sustaining relationships come online to complain about it. Those who do it easily, are out living their lives and not bothering with online stuff.

 

If we did a real life comparison, I suspect we'd find that most people find love much more easily than what it appears to be.

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Lack of physical attraction to a guy does make a difference, but other things make a difference too and contribute to lack of attraction.

 

One thing that is a biggie for me is that he needs to take care of himself. I don't mean that he should be thin or fit or sexy (which is what I find men mean by it) but that he needs to take care of his clothes, get a haircut once in a while, keep facial hair trimmed and smell nice. You would be surprised how many guys do not bother to maintain even basic personal hygiene or brush their teeth. You would think that would be obvious but it is clearly not.

 

He needs to be a gentleman, to be kind, caring and thoughtful. Many guys (especially those I get chatting to online) seem blunt, off-hand and totally lacking in manners. I suppose I get the feeling that either they were never taught how to treat women with respect or they are resentful of women and it comes across in this off-hand, 'don't give a toss', kind of way.

 

Then there's the assumption that if a woman is nice to a guy, she wants him sexually. This means that women can go from being friends with a guy to feeling quite cornered by him in a couple of meetings. There seems to be no happy medium where a woman can get to know a guy without feeling she is 'leading him on'. If she does try to get to know him as a friend, then does not allow things to turn romantic, she will be accused of being picky, teasing, or messing him about. So how to we get to know what a guy is really like if we cannot be friends? OK, it is best to keep a distance because we are taught that women cannot have guy friends, then guys wonder why they find it hard to meet girls.

 

Sadly, guys do not realise that women pick up on their attitudes very quickly. If a guy is sexist or sees all women as sex objects or has old-fashioned attitudes about women 'provoking' men sexually just by being present, it is really obvious to women. He might think he is polite and chatting to her nicely, whereas she is picking up on all the subtleties of the conversation that he is oblivious to. I have talked to other women about the men in our social circles and it is quite surprising how different women pick up on the same 'vibes' from specific guys.

 

In my age group, there are quite a lot of single men, often divorced or never settled down with one woman. Some smoke (out of the question for me), some drink too much (again, a no-go for me), some lack empathy and sensitivity, some have chauvinistic attitudes, some are unkempt, some are into fast cars (I'm def not going there), others are too 'down to earth' for me (I really don't like basic and blunt!). Basically, the responsible and thoughtful ones, capable of building a relationship with a woman, are often already attached.

 

That's just my experience. I know things differ for younger people and there the lack of experience in approaching women could have more to do with it than anything else, but the above does matter, whatever your age. Yes, good guys are hard to find.

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Here is why you hear this more from women looking for good men vs men looking for "good" women...

 

For one....At the very basic there are probably 20 good looking women for every 1 good looking guy...Yeah, I know looks are subjective, but let's face it....A woman can be pretty homely, yet if she has a great body, she'll be desired...For guys, it wont work that way....If You're ugly, then that's pretty much what you are...

 

Then you add the fact that for a guy to be considered "good' by many or most women's standards, then he better have a good career...reasonable to exceptional intelligence, ample cock size and great sex skills, family oriented/at least willing to consider fatherhood/ability to be a soleprovider if kids are on the table..etc....

 

For most guys it's way more simple...Most guys are happy if they can find a reasonably attractive woman who isn't a nag[], is relatively good natured and warm, won't cheat on them and won't get too fat...The rest of the other stuff that makes guys "good" isn't that important to many guys looking for a woman...

 

Once you take age into consideration, then the "good" guys really become Unicorns...Most are already taken and aren't leaving...The others are either out of shape beer gut types, bitter from being taken to the cleaners in a divorce, low test so not interested in sex/women all that much anymore, or they may be career students/ or weed smoking basement dwellers with no purpose or goals in life...As a guy just over 50, I really am surprised at the amount of my personal friends that either have zero interest in women anymore..or just content in their situations living with women they barely talk to let alone be romantic with, and bury themselves in their buddies, the ball games and hobbies..

 

I think women are generally more idealistic than men are, hence the constant crying of "no good guys"...they're shooting far higher than they should be for what they bring to the table or have been given some false sense of desirablility from guys who really had no other interest in them but for sex and they couldn't see the game...

 

TFY

 

 

 

I wanted a woman that I found attractive. Minimum requirements

for that: height equal or less then mine, preferred brunette, and fit (not skinny or fat), same sex drive, clean.

 

She did not have to a career. If I was to make enough money

she could be a SAHM. Though if things were tight I would

expect her to get a job to pitch in.

 

I wanted a life time friend, companion, wife, mother to our kids.

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good men = good looking, good personality, in shape, college degree, awesome job, no felonies, only 7 partners, dresses well

 

99 percent of all the women want the 1 percent of all the men.

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In my age group, there are quite a lot of single men, often divorced or never settled down with one woman. Some smoke (out of the question for me), some drink too much (again, a no-go for me), some lack empathy and sensitivity, some have chauvinistic attitudes, some are unkempt, some are into fast cars (I'm def not going there), others are too 'down to earth' for me (I really don't like basic and blunt!). Basically, the responsible and thoughtful ones, capable of building a relationship with a woman, are often already attached.

 

 

Divorced can be a bad sign. Smoking, excessive drinking deal breakers.

 

Lack of being a wimp (empathy and sensitivity) so he does not get

upset when he see's a homeless person. Though he is willing to

work long hard days to provide the best he can for his wife and kids

means a lot more.

 

Fast cars? If he drives sane, can afford it why not. Better a husband

home in his garage working on his car then hanging in bars with

loser friends working on picking up [women]

 

Basic blunt light years ahead of a lair, blame shifter, passive aggressive

approach to life.

 

Years ago people were smarter. They knew having a good spouse

was the number one priority of life. It is the foundation for a good

family. They got married younger when choices of who to marry

was better because of the widest amount of people to choose from.

 

Today people place sole importance on careers. As they wait for the

unicorn of men to marry they let all the less then perfect but fully

suitable men get snatched up. Now with their clocks ticking, feet

impatiently tapping the floor. They complain that they cannot find

a "good man". There is nothing left but a bunch of knuckle dragging

losers left to marry.

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99 percent of all the women want the 1 percent of all the men.

 

And why wouldn't they?

Everyone wants the best. Of course she would want "good looking, good personality, in shape, college degree, awesome job, no felonies, only 7 partners, dresses well..."

 

Living with "bad men" is very often soul destroying, it usually erodes self-esteem, is madness inducing and causes stress, premature ageing and health issues. A relationship to most woman is very important and a bad one can poison her whole life.

Why would any woman want to deliberately sign herself up for that?

Unfortunately many have to take what they can get, or what is on offer...

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And why wouldn't they? [/Quote]

 

Because they don't all want the same thing? I'm certainly not in the top 1% as far as looks are concerned, but finding women hasn't been a problem for me, at least so far.

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And why wouldn't they?

Everyone wants the best. Of course she would want "good looking, good personality, in shape, college degree, awesome job, no felonies, only 7 partners, dresses well..."

 

Living with "bad men" is very often soul destroying, it usually erodes self-esteem, is madness inducing and causes stress, premature ageing and health issues. A relationship to most woman is very important and a bad one can poison her whole life.

Why would any woman want to deliberately sign herself up for that?

Unfortunately many have to take what they can get, or what is on offer...

 

Poor reading comprehension skills?

 

The problem is not the 99 wanting the 1.

 

The answer if settling for the bottom of the barrel was never

said, suggested or even implied.

 

The problem is they are living in self denial (you know where

that is on the East bank of the Nile opposite of Alexandria) and

or self delusional in that they can pull in the manicorn (man/unicorn)

AKA the 1 percenter, the "10", the upper 3rd tier.

 

Everything in life is a trade off. Mating up is no different.

 

The problem is not that too many people are reading fairy tails, but

that they are believing those stories.

 

Everyone wants the best deal they can make. Though when going to

a horse trade one will not get much success when they bring a

donkey, mule, or a jackass to the table and try to get a thoroughbred.

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GunslingerRoland
Are they really what we're supposed to consider highly attractive?

 

I mean, none of them are ugly, but neither are any of those three the kind of man that I would stop and stare at and go "wow, that guy is super hot".

 

See and that is exactly it, and a big part of the difference between women and men. Even when you say women are only attracted the top, most attractive men, and then you start listing off celebrities that are generally considered attractive, women will start telling you that they don't even find those ones attractive. So not only is a very small percentage of men considered truly good looking, most women only like a subset of those men to begin with.

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Isn't there a simple supply and demand issue going on? We can say all day that this forum (all forums) are biased by people coming on here to complain, but I think the numbers say the truth.

 

Colleges/universities are graduating more women than men these days. We are ultimately producing more college-educated women than men. Currently, in the 24-35 year old age group, the number is around 37.5% of women holding bachelors degrees vs 29.5% of men. Things have changed drastically from just 25 years ago.

 

That leaves women at marrying age looking for men "at their level" and not finding them. Or at least...there are simply more women than men. Sure, we can go out and see all kinds of nice looking men on any given day. But there are more of us women with the "qualities" people are looking for. I realize I'm not getting past the surface here, though.

 

This doesn't even account for the fact that in general, once you get past the initial marrying age (early to mid 20s), men have more options than women. Sure, women can marry younger men and do. But usually, men marry both younger and at their age, and sometimes older. Women tend to marry younger very rarely, and try to stay around their age. We also look older. But those older men are also being taken by women THEIR age (and even YOUNGER than us!!).

 

I just think there is some reality to this, as much as we don't want to admit it.

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Cookiesandough

Shortage of men who are my type in both looks and personality. It's always been that way for some of us. Some people can be attracted to virtually everyone and some of us are selective. That's why it always riles me when someone(usually a man) says it's so easy for women to get sex. They're looking it at from their POV, one of next to no standards besides a vagina. They forget a lot people(men and women) have high standards. Yes, it's easy for women to get sex if that's their only objective and they don't mind cringing in disgust the whole time. If that experience is really enviable to these people, I suggest they go on Tinder, find the least attractive person to them, and chat them up.

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Shortage of men who are my type in both looks and personality. It's always been that way for some of us. Some people can be attracted to virtually everyone and some of us are selective. [...]

 

That is perfectly fine. It is just irritating at times to read somebody's complaint about what this prerogative implies. It is an explicit choice, so you might as well own what that means.

 

I also have a preference and have rejected women because of it. Thankfully I'm still able to find my type, but if that was no longer the case I would know who to blame.

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Cookiesandough
See and that is exactly it, and a big part of the difference between women and men. Even when you say women are only attracted the top, most attractive men, and then you start listing off celebrities that are generally considered attractive, women will start telling you that they don't even find those ones attractive. So not only is a very small percentage of men considered truly good looking, most women only like a subset of those men to begin with.

Perhaps not all women are attracted to the cut and dry media perception of what a 'top' man looks like? There are plenty of men who don't find female celebrities who are supposed to be "the sexiest woman alive" to be the sexiest alive. George Clooney and Brad Pitt are two completely different looking men, imo. They're going to appeal to different women even though they are both attractive. There's a difference between recognizing someone's attractive and being attracted. My friends like men I can recognize as not being hard on the eyes... but we just have completely different taste. That's ok

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