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Non-traditional relationships and assoiciated stigma


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Old 25th October 2017, 12:38 PM   #46
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This thread is a little evidence that people are not very understanding of "non-traditional" relationships lol
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:39 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by lana-banana View Post
You needed and craved that reassurance this summer; if he went more than 3-4 hours without texting, you had a meltdown and assumed he was done with you. But you didn't mind feeling dumb and dependent then?

(I speak as someone who once assumed a guy was ignoring me when he didn't text for a while, and I was shoveling a huge scoop of self-pity ice cream into my mouth when he called asking if I was free for dinner.)
Iím a rant-lover Lana
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:49 PM   #48
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"Help" is not always as literal as going to someone's physical aid. It also means being their chief source of support and inspiration, as you describe. This is why people fall passionately in love and decide to get married: they are entranced with each other and want to keep pushing each other (and themselves) to new, greater heights. Again, that is what a partnership is about.
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Old 25th October 2017, 12:56 PM   #49
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"Help" is not always as literal as going to someone's physical aid. It also means being their chief source of support and inspiration, as you describe. This is why people fall passionately in love and decide to get married: they are entranced with each other and want to keep pushing each other (and themselves) to new, greater heights. Again, that is what a partnership is about.
If thatís the description of help - Iím fully with you

Marriage/cohabitation is more for legal & reproductive needs from what Iíve discussed with people IRL, but if it goes beyond these - Iím sure itís awesome!
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Old 25th October 2017, 1:10 PM   #50
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Marriage solely for legal and/or reproductive needs? Now that's rigid thinking! There are very few legal benefits to marriage and not everyone wants kids, but millions of people do it anyway.

Kamille is right: you seem to believe you can't experience mutual, reciprocal love with anybody. Kamille is also correct that you're obviously overintellectualizing this in an attempt to rationalize your current circumstances. Just relax.
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Old 25th October 2017, 1:15 PM   #51
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So, you have found a perfect form of relationship, he is the most interesting man in the world and everything is going exactly like you desire.

Why the 60 page thread then? I don’t see a happy person in those posts, there is a lot of anxiety and you don’t seem to enjoy the situation as much as you claim now. Would you turn him down if he’d show romantic (not necessarily in the mushy way you dislike) interest in you?

You don’t need to explain yourself to strangers or convince them of anything but just be honest with YOU. I see a lot of rationalizing and talking yourself into the idea that this “nontraditional” relationship is what you want.

I have wasted a lot of energy on non-relationships in the past and in hindsight they were all dead ends. It feels sad to witness a smart and articulate lady doing it to herself and I have the urge to somehow show other perspective and share my own life experience, not that my narrow petty bourgeois mind can’t handle an unconventional relationship (which isn’t really even the case in my opinion).

Last edited by bene; 25th October 2017 at 1:19 PM..
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Old 25th October 2017, 1:50 PM   #52
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Well, I will grant you itís non-traditional to want a man who:

1) Doesnít want any romance at all, to say ďI love you,Ē to never engage in any soppy or lovey-dovey stuff, pet names, etc.; and

2) Doesnít prioritize you in any way and treats you exactly the same as he would treat a stranger or acquaintance; and

3) Doesnít want to help you, but only wants to exist to inspire you and expand your goals.

Most women would consider this stuff to be red flags for a relationship, but if thatís what you want, more power to you. I actually donít think a man like this should be that hard to find, especially if you also want a man who is unavailable. Maybe just look for men who are emotionally unavailable?
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:09 PM   #53
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You got it right here! I want someone who *does not prioritize me in any way*.

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I want someone who values me for me, NOT because heís in a relationship with me. .
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And I want someone who have strong enough principles to treat people the same way regardless of his feelings, positive or negative, towards them.
It sounds like you have, or want, only superficial relationships of all kinds. Intimate relationships are inherently prioritized over casual or group relationships. I am not talking about sex when I say "intimate" but rather the depth, meaning, and, yes, FEELINGS that an individual has in relation to another person. I am going to greater lengths for my childhood friend with whom I've shared some of life's most intense experiences, for example, and for my beloved daughter than I am for you. No offense. . I took care of my mother when she succumbed to Alzheimer's; I'm not doing that for my 3rd grade teacher.

I also devote as much time as possible to one charitable organization that I've chosen for personal reasons (including FEELINGS). I could not spread myself between two at that level, much less ever charity on Earth. I'd be useless.

If one were going to treat all people the same way regardless of personal feelings, they would not be giving much of myself to anyone or anything. Plus, it's physically and technically impossible. How this exemplifies a higher principle eludes me - unless you are talking about great humanitarians like Gandhi or Mother Theresa - but in your other thread you made it clear that you don't value that.

Treating certain people and things with special consideration doesn't mean or even imply that one things that these people and things are more valuable than others. If you treat your wife like a queen but are a serial rapist, you're an ******* and a scourge. If you treat your wife like a queen and treat your boss with kindness and respect, that's fine.

You are functioning with a HUGE misconception if you really believe that people who are in a loving reciprocal relationship are generally valuing each other because they are in a relationship and not for the essence of their partner. IMO the "traditional" relationships have become quite disposable, in any case. Divorce, etc.

Frankly, I don't think you really believe this stuff, but that you are pulling anything and everything out, no matter how far fetched, to rationalize your choice to elevate a crush to something that minimizes every other type of relationship dynamic.
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:23 PM   #54
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I will share a "non traditional" relationship of mine. I have many and among my peer group this doesn't even qualify as "non traditional" - it's normal. Clearly to you it is completely out of bounds, so here you go:


To this day I have a treasured friendship with a woman that began over 30 years ago with my relentless pursuit of her and her rejection of that. We were, however, both active in a consuming and exciting art / cultural movement. That common ground is what brought and kept us together in early years. We have been through a lot of life together, traveled, been roommates in another country, made some memorable art, been there for each other in hard times. We prioritize each other. Also, when I chose to embrace our friendship I felt that it was my responsibility to function as a true friend and not as a sexual pursuer. If I had been what I understand (from this site) is known as an "orbiter," our friendship would never have developed, of this I am 100% positive and we've talked about it over the years. She would have been guarded and ultimately dumped me because she'd have been aware of my ulterior motives, or I would have become resentful of her for her constant rejection, so that was all banished forever and we became dear friends. Relationships need good common ground.

Ultimately I fell in love with someone, with whom I chose to form what you disparage - a "traditional relationship." She did as well. We are still friends. Our friendship and my care for her well being are a high priority for me.

If this type of bond is in the cards for you and this guy, I'm happy for you. It's a rare gift for most people. Things are going to have to evolve quite a bit for it to happen; he would actually have to prioritize YOU. Nurturing and maintaining any kind of relationship takes effort and desire from everyone involved.
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:24 PM   #55
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Actually one sided love friendships are not really non-traditional relationships at all. They've been happening since the dawn of man...they're just ambiguous and people don't approve of them because the person in love usually ends up with the short end of the stick
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:26 PM   #56
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Okay, so I figured out after a few posts that there is a whole other story here. My answer will just be in response tio part of your OP that struck me:

The part about the 3rd date-sex, 20th date-mom, 100th date-ring stuff.

I say to you - I completely agree.

I'll be blunt. I grew up very conservatively Christian. But even without that, I have always been a bit of a romantic. 3rd date sex rule to me is not so much traditional as it is....well, kinda slutty. There. I said it. And it is only my TAKE. 3 dates for me is still the VERY beginning. Sure I'll kiss 'em - we can even use tongue lol. But I think back to how many DIFFERENT people I had 3 or more dates with before my first marriage....I would have already slept with 15 or so people before I was even married. And, call me a prude if you want (which will GREATLY amuse my fiance), but in my book that would have meant I was cheap. Cause gross. Sex should be a little more though provoking than ordering a pizza and checking some stupid box.

Okay....sorry. I feel better now

And who says you have to meet mom at X time? Or get a ring? I would rather my own kids date "too long" and go "too slow" and be sure than marrying the wrong person or having a bunch of gross, low-self-esteem bedpost notches.

Now, I gather that you have strong feelings for a man who doesn't want to be romantic in any way, and you would basically rather be friends than nothing because you feel so intensely for him.

BTDT sister. More than once. It was painful in a lot of ways. It was kinda worth it in a few ways because they were awesome people. Neither of them changed their mind about me, however, and I eventually met someone else who DID like me "that way."

Unrequited love sucks, but it also isn't logical. I'd like to think if someone had told me in genuine care to stop hurting myself, I'd have listened. I doubt I would have.

So I don't have any answers, but I do have empathy.
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:30 PM   #57
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A bit of a side note

Guys - thanks for commenting and I'll get back to it a little later but I have one burning question for Lana, Nuevo, Clia. Have you guys been raised in a church setting (regardless of whether or not you are believers at the moment), which denomination and which geographic region? If it's TMI - just ignore.

The reason I'm asking is many of the comments on how a relationship/partnership should look like contain a specific language that I've personally seen only in the church circles of my ex-boyfriend. It could be coincidental but it just picked my interest because I've literally spend hours/days arguing with him on similar topics... and I see striking similarities in wording.

Last edited by No_Go; 25th October 2017 at 2:40 PM..
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:43 PM   #58
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What wording are you referring to? I have not said anything about how a relationship "should" look, only that partners should help each other out and care for each other. If that's a religion then I guess I'm a member of the Church Of Not Being A Jerk.

I am strongly inclined to agree with NuevoYorko, bene and Kamille---you don't really believe this and are breaking your back to justify why your obsession is totally okay and perfect for you. To that end, I am done here, because you aren't asking for help, you're practicing sophistry, which is repugnant to us classicists. When you're ready to be genuine I'll be around.
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Last edited by lana-banana; 25th October 2017 at 2:49 PM..
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:49 PM   #59
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I wouldn't say I was raised in a church setting. My parents took us to church a handful of times for Easter and Christmas, but we did not go on any sort of regular basis. We were not a religious family. I don't think I've sat through a church service other than for weddings or funerals since I was about 8 years old. I'm not religious in the slightest.
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Old 25th October 2017, 2:58 PM   #60
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Possibly for the sophistry, but this particular question has had nothing to do with the obsession-guy. I just got flashbacks from my ex - language like: 'you might see me as a stronghold against whatever else might come in life'. He would make a lot of statements like this: 'I wanted you to be one with me'. I never quite understood where is he coming from with these statements and assumed church. It could be something in the educational system or another cultural difference that I'm simply not understanding.

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What wording are you referring to? I have not said anything about how a relationship "should" look, only that partners should help each other out and care for each other. If that's a religion then I guess I'm a member of the Church Of Not Being A Jerk.

I am strongly inclined to agree with NuevoYorko, bene and Kamille---you don't really believe this and are breaking your back to justify why your obsession is totally okay and perfect for you. To that end, I am done here, because you aren't asking for help, you're practicing sophistry, which is repugnant to us classicists. When you're ready to be genuine I'll be around.
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