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This article totally nailed it: Why are good men so hard to find?


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Old 25th September 2017, 9:57 AM   #46
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My eyes glaze over any time I see someone, in all seriousness, use terms like "snowflake." Way to be cliche.
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:24 AM   #47
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This article just puzzles me. The majority of genuinely good men I know aren't just in a LTR/marriage SOLELY for sex, which is the main assumption of the article. Sure, sex is part of it, but most of them are with their partners for the PERSON that she is. Sex by itself cannot possibly keep a couple together and happy for decades.

If a man was just going around with the sole purpose of trying to find the "cheapest" form of sexual entertainment he possibly could and isn't interested in anything more than that (as the author of the article assumes all men are), how would he possibly have been any "good" in a relationship anyway, even if 100% of women waited for marriage to have sex and thus he was forced to do so? Do you think such a man would genuinely care about his wife beyond the sex she "provides" him? Why would any woman even want to be with such a man? Surely it is better to be single.

I do agree that women should have high standards for the men they choose to spend their life with, and not put up with anything just to have a breathing human with a Y chromosome next to them... but that wasn't really the main point of the article.

Edited to add: Also, even assuming the "all men are pigs" angle that the OP is taking... it isn't really true that anyone in any society (no matter how traditional) absolutely HAD to marry to have access to sex. Yes, in traditional times and societies casual sex is less common, but there are always prostitutes. There is a reason why it's called the "oldest profession on earth" and has been mentioned in much of the oldest literature in human record. It would be far cheaper for a man to see a prostitute weekly than it would be for him to support a wife and children, so it would still make no sense for a man to marry solely for sex.
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Old 25th September 2017, 11:43 AM   #48
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There are things to admire and to hate about those old days. And there are things to admire and to hate about times today. We just switched one set of problems for another, and it all seems equal in terms of positives and negatives, but no better in the end (depending on which angle that you look at it from).

And btw, it's a real turn off to the opposite gender to go around saying "There are no good women/men left!", Or "I never want to get married! (Again)". Why would anyone want to get involved with someone with such a bitter approach?
Very true. Who wants to deal with somebody who already has a strike against you because you were born with certain body parts? People who hate your gender are a huge turn off.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:17 PM   #49
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I don't agree with much about the article. Yes less people are married than before, but there are a lot of reasons for that, and it's largely due to the fact that less people both men and women want to be married. Also it's not as much of a necessity for people to be married. In the old days you had to find someone whether you liked them or not because it wasn't socially acceptable otherwise. Plus you wanted to have a bunch of kids.

Going back to our grand parents/great grand parents relationships, they weren't particularly good relationships. But it didn't matter as much, because people had a lot less leisure time with their spouses anyway. Society was less complicated and a couple didn't have to be partners in life in the same sense they are today.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:29 PM   #50
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I like the concept of marriage; what it symbolizes; what it suggests the two people must feel about each other. But it's so strange to hear so many lament the unmarried or those who are hesitant to be married. As if these people are defective or insane for not plunging into something that has such a high-stakes, high-failure nature to it.

I don't think everyone is cut out for marriage, so it's bizarre that we expect/encourage pretty much everyone to seek it. Marriage can fail for any number of reasons, but I think "trying to fit a square peg in a round hole" has to be among them.
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Old 25th September 2017, 5:47 PM   #51
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Yeah exactly and so women going around saying there are no good men left or they don't wanna get married is a turn of too ya see.it's been said a million times even just in this thread.
Most guys run a mile from bitter women. Probably works the same for women too but if they go round saying it themselves then it's back to square one.
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Old 25th September 2017, 5:50 PM   #52
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My eyes glaze over any time I see someone, in all seriousness, use terms like "snowflake." Way to be cliche.
What's it suppose to mean anyway ?
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Old 25th September 2017, 6:00 PM   #53
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Yeah , the idea of a guy marrying or getting into a relationship just for sex is ridiculous, all that hassle and restriction then , just for sex, no way. as l posted a few pages back lots of reasons why that doesn't stack up.

The so called artical is just another one on the pile of millions of dribble out there, brain farts most of them.
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Old 25th September 2017, 6:06 PM   #54
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The author is completely and utterly out of touch with the lives of average single males. It is NOT easy to get sex for the average single male. Very, very far from it. The article is so off base that it isn't even funny.

I think the author realizes this at some level because she tries to conflate access to high-quality pornography with sexual access. That is not how it works. Masturbation, aided with pornographic images or not, is nothing but a second-rate substitute for the real thing. There is so much more going on even on a pure sensory level in sex with a willing partner of the preferred sex than in masturbation, let alone on an emotional level. I don't think anyone has to be explained how self-stimulation and stimulation by another feel different. Secondly, and more importantly, being the object of desire implies validation and that is hugely important, at least for young men. (Many older men have been seen too much or been through the wringer themselves and have become disillusioned. But they are not the demographic clamoring to get married in the first place.)

Online dating, especially on services like Tinder, is typically frustrating and disappointing for both average women and average men. The fundamental reason for that is the fact that women are turned on by men other women find desirable (men of high rank/status/success) who are seriously into them. The context of Tinder dating where each male stands in comparison to a very large number of competitors magnifies this to a painful degree. The only men who get easy sex on Tinder (or anywhere else) are the cream of the crop. They and only they will have access to a large quantity of sex partners. Any woman on Tinder can get laid in a heartbeat but, obviously, finding a desirable man willing to commit is very hard.

The best way for the average Joe to get laid is to stay out of the electronic meat markets and get to know women on a personal level in his daily life. His best chance is to get laid regularly is to get into a committed relationship with a woman. I did not say marriage, because marriage puts a lot of power into the hands of the wife over the husband (= a legal claim on all his present and even some of his future resources - without any reciprocal duties of her own under most jurisdictions) and that's where things start slowly coming apart all too often. There are still plenty of unattached average Joes for average Janes to choose willing relationship partners from. Marriage is probably a different story, particularly among the young generation, because too many of them have seen the damage divorce does up close in their families of origin or among their extended family or friends.
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Old 25th September 2017, 6:16 PM   #55
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good? perhaps men just want to be good to the woman they want, and it is not the writer of that blog, not even sure if all girls dislike porn, the porn actreses do, and what is "good"? the guy who buys the dinners?

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Old 25th September 2017, 6:44 PM   #56
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This blog may have been written by a woman. But she's basically promoting a book written by a man.

Interesting that a male writer can be so out of touch with the average men and that the woman writing the blog about the book is so out of touch with the average woman.
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Old 25th September 2017, 9:28 PM   #57
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good? perhaps men just want to be good to the woman they want, and it is not the writer of that blog, not even sure if all girls dislike porn, the porn actreses do, and what is "good"? the guy who buys the dinners?
I always wonder about that, too. What exactly are good men? Can't be "nice guys". "Bad boys" are out by definition. Can't be regular guys, because they should be easy to find. It's a mystery.
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Old 26th September 2017, 3:30 AM   #58
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Well , to my mind and many l've known, this is just roughly how it really works.
lffffff, you fall in love with somebody or your really, really , keen on them , of course there's probably a lot of attraction too buttttt, along with personality and click and 50 other goodies as well.
And so in those circumstances , of course anything sexual is a beautiful bonus and all part of companionship and the rest of the big picture with somebody you really feel special about.
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Old 26th September 2017, 5:14 AM   #59
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I always wonder about that, too. What exactly are good men? Can't be "nice guys". "Bad boys" are out by definition. Can't be regular guys, because they should be easy to find. It's a mystery.

I dunno if it's such a mystery...while no one is perfect, i'd imagine the average woman would consider a "good" man, one who is good looking, well built, accomplished. intelligent, worldly, generous., family oriented and willing to be a proper father of her kids, generally kind to others and showing "quiet" Alpha qualities.... without a lot of bluster and brashness....

But as far as the article goes....well...there could be something to this trend...I really don't know for sure, but statistics are notable, and from what i hear on the street, many guys are doing things now in relationships with women, that would have been pretty much unheard of "back in the day"...

I don't know if its been mentioned, but the general push toward "gender neutrality" has hurt relationships between the sexes...Guys don't like women that show masculine traits and the reverse applies as well with women....Sure, many find a way to fit the pieces in place, but there are many others trying to figure all this out...And this leads to a lot of movement in and out of relationships and the general feeling of never really being truly satisfied.

And yes, many guys can be lazy...So, offer them available sex virtually everywhere, and they aren't going to be so inclined to do the dog and pony show, so to speak...Additionally,. with more women out there earning a solid dollar, you see a massive move toward guys who really don't aspire to very much, being content to let her go out and be the bread winner, while he putters around from one crappy job to another..This was virtually unheard of just a few decades ago..

It surprises me that some posters think "its the same" in terms of available sex for men now vs in the past...That's just a ridiculous notion...Technology, and the changing attitudes among women regarding casual sex has made it pretty easy for most guys...The notion of a "FWB" for women in say...the 80's was a pretty rare scenario...It happened, but no way to the extent it is now..

I have a friend that complains about their daughters current situation...She is an attractive woman in her late 20's that has been with this same guy now for better than 4 years..Of course, she wants the house, the white fence, the dog..and the kids....While they have be sharing an apt, for a while, he hasn't said anything about any of it,. she won't pressure him over it, he still bangs around with his buddies, while she works two jobs...I'd think if that guy was me at the same point in life, there would be heavy pressure to get that life plan going...

So perhaps there is something to the notion that as more guys find it easier to take the lazy approach, facilitated by women's open and more casual feelings about sex, and the less of a need for a guy to be the heavy provider and family leader, then it would stand to reason that the pool of the "good" guys as I described at the beginning, starts to shrink...I can see that possibility...

TFY
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Old 26th September 2017, 5:43 AM   #60
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TFY, while casual sex was certainly around in the 70's and 80's you make a good point about FWB not being a thing back then. Will have to have a rethink of my ideas.

The friend's daughter? I guess she can't be too unhappy with the situation if she sticks around and doesn't put any pressure on. Personally I can't fathom letting a man decide the timing of my whole future....but hey, that's just me.
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