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This article totally nailed it: Why are good men so hard to find?


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Old 24th September 2017, 3:07 PM   #31
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I think good men have always been hard to find.
Tinder may be the modern "solution" to men finding sexually available women, but they were always around, and guys looking solely for sex tended to find them anyway through the then available dating channels.
Little really changes.

Maybe marriage isn't the thing it was, but men and women are still living together and having kids together.
It is not as if all the men are hermits living in the middle of woods or are living in bachelor only communes or they have all turned gay...
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Old 24th September 2017, 3:13 PM   #32
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There are a lot of gals exactly like this. They got all the sex they wanted, until they couldn't compete with the younger gals taking their place. Their kids were all grown and are living all over the world, doing exactly what mom has taught them to do. They can't be bothered to take in or care for mom. They get warehoused in nursing homes...
What about men? Aren't they responsible for the parents as well?
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Old 24th September 2017, 3:16 PM   #33
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I remember a time when the sexes really enjoyed one another! Oh wait, I still do!

I grew up surrounded by men, brothers, cousins, friends. Then I married one, gave birth to a few, divorced one and guess what...

I still love men! Carry on.
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Old 24th September 2017, 3:28 PM   #34
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I think there is some truth in this. If women offers themselves for free, for no commitment or effort, then men will just take and go. The question is, what should any of us expect? What is the right balance?

If a guy does not have to offer anything - comfort, care, protection, support - then he is effectively a friend with benefits - although a friend usually offers more. Yes, something is amiss but there has probably always been a lack of real connection and mutual support.
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:10 PM   #35
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I don't think you even read the article careful.

first, she said this generation, not her generation. so it's not even about her.

she doesn't say all men. she says it's harder. Certainly for desirable men, and men who have options.

there are certainly lots of man out there who are not so desirable and therefore no easy access to sex.

This article gives you the trend and generalization, but you argue with exceptions.
But if easy access to sex is the cause of these problems, why hasn't this phenomena affected all women since the advent of the pill and the sexual revolution?

Hate to disillusion you, but women her age - and my age - had casual sex too. But access to casual sex didn't stop guys from wanting to settle down with us.
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:41 PM   #36
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In our parent's generation and before you just did things, without making them all a man vs woman problem. In that generation not every single social norm had to be torn down. Now we're all little special snowflakes and we hate to compromise. Some do anyway. I know of stable, familial LTRs in my generation but I would say that our generation is pickier and more entitled than earlier ones. I was born in the 80s. That much for my personal interpretation, for which I have no figures and hard facts to back it up.

Then there are the hard facts: Many western societies, the US being the famous exception, have extensive social and medical security for every single citizen. When a hundred years ago almost everyone was under constant threat of sickness, disability and even death, today physical threats are virtually out of the picture for the vast majority in a society. This type of state-mandated insurance for all sorts of risks makes familial ties less important (wrt economic stability) than, say, 50 years ago. Before modern public safety nets like these, having a child out of wedlock resulted in a serious social and economic downgrade. The pill and legal, safe and accessible abortion medicine gave women much more control over their child bearing. It has become something less of an unknown. At the same time women became much more economically independent. These factors have far reaching effects. Some expected and some unexpected. I think we're only slowly getting a more complete picture. I think all humans have a hard time adjusting to change. All the social and technological developments will have huge effects on society and it will take quite some time to adapt and find new roles.

I suppose never before has a society gone through this number of massive changes. Maybe when we climbed down from the trees was such a change, or when we started to live in settlements and to farm, instead of living as hunter-gatherers.

Are women their own worst enemies? I don't know that, but men and women alike do things and they seem to be a great idea at the time, but later unintended consequences become visible. In the fifties the Chinese communist leader Mao thought, supported by his advisers, that it was a great idea to kill all sparrows in China (to protect rice fields). The effects on the food chain led to unseen grasshopper plagues, which devastated more rice fields than the sparrows ever did. Hundreds of thousands of Chinese starved. Mao was quite embarrassed and the program was silently phased out.

I could imagine that uncompromising, hard-line programs to enforce equality, maybe like the one that some social justice proponents seem to defend, can lead to an unintended outcome. James Damore's memo alluded to that. Yes, you can get more women into coding jobs with affirmative-action type hiring processes. Has anyone ever bothered to find out whether women even like that kind of work? To the degree that they're hired into it? Yes, in theory it sounds great if we were all equal and the same in every aspect, except for our reproductive organs. But that is not the case and it is unlikely that it ever will be the case. For example, I think that is probably a good thing that women (on average) are more risk averse than men, because it's good for the child. I think gender differences (in abilities and interests) often are a result of adaptation to successful child raising. It doesn't mean everybody always has to fulfill the evolutionary gender stereotypes. I feel, however, that brute-force equalization leads to less happiness in both sexes.

Almost all countries have voting rights for both sexes for several decades now. Women usually make up about 51% of a society. How come we have almost exclusively men dominated parliaments for almost all of that time in almost all of these countries? I really believe we should open our minds to the possibility that there are some fundamental differences in our abilities and desires that we cannot argue away with even the most sophisticated of the modern social theories.

A bit more OT: It may actually be just what the title says. Good people of both sexes are still around at the same proportions. Changing social mechanics and circumstances just make it harder to match up (at least with traditional methods and search patterns). So I'm not seeing the end of society dawning on us. It will just look different than it did.
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:47 PM   #37
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I don't buy that all men just want casual, meaningless sex with lots of women indefinitely. Maybe at a certain point in his life. Particularly if he's under 25. But most men eventually do want to find a meaningful connection with one woman that they care for. It's human to want to bond.

& I just losthe that argument that analogizes women with cows. Why is that even popular
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:49 PM   #38
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[...]These factors have far reaching effects. Some expected and some unexpected. I think we're only slowly getting a more complete picture. I think all humans have a hard time adjusting to change.
[...]
It is a problem that the conversation about these changes and their effects is totally politicized. It is a problem that people get punished for having, or uttering the wrong opinion. If you kill the conversation we will stay clueless and the outcome will be worse than it has to be.
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:58 PM   #39
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Oh yes, and there is also men that settle down just because they want to start a family.

But more importantly, I don't see all these women over 35 that are struggling in my circle. I only hear about it online and usually in the Manosphere. My aunt was in her 50s and had no problem remarrying this spring. Pretty much all of my other older female relatives had the same experience. My mid 30s friends are not bitching about how they can't find a man. TBH, I'm the one with the worst luck and I've had it since I was in my early 20s. So, if you're a mid 30s woman who is having problems finding a good man, I don't mean to be offensive, but you may want to check yourself. It might be a 'you' problem ...just saying...
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Old 24th September 2017, 5:58 PM   #40
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It is a problem that the conversation about these changes and their effects is totally politicized. It is a problem that people get punished for having, or uttering the wrong opinion. If you kill the conversation we will stay clueless and the outcome will be worse than it has to be.
Silencing debate doesn't even change minds. It just makes people hold in their true feelings until it explodes like we are seeing in the states right now. The election of Trump, the racial tensions, men vs women and all that stuff has been brewing for years and it finally boiled over in the last few years. Political correctness is nothing more than phony politeness.
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Old 25th September 2017, 12:33 AM   #41
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Good women are just as hard to find , especially as they get older.
Not easy for anyone who wants to meet that very special person.

But as l discovered recently , given the right girl l'd be open to remarrying.
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Old 25th September 2017, 1:38 AM   #42
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It is a problem that the conversation about these changes and their effects is totally politicized. It is a problem that people get punished for having, or uttering the wrong opinion. If you kill the conversation we will stay clueless and the outcome will be worse than it has to be.
We have a post where the far majority of women respondents are disagreeing with the premise that many late 20's women can't find a man because of casual sex.

Which part of this is politicised and can't be discussed?
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Old 25th September 2017, 4:08 AM   #43
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There are things to admire and to hate about those old days. And there are things to admire and to hate about times today. We just switched one set of problems for another, and it all seems equal in terms of positives and negatives, but no better in the end (depending on which angle that you look at it from).

And btw, it's a real turn off to the opposite gender to go around saying "There are no good women/men left!", Or "I never want to get married! (Again)". Why would anyone want to get involved with someone with such a bitter approach?

Last edited by LoveShack.org Moderator; 25th September 2017 at 9:50 AM.. Reason: Merge
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Old 25th September 2017, 4:33 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by spiderowl View Post
I think there is some truth in this. If women offers themselves for free, for no commitment or effort, then men will just take and go. The question is, what should any of us expect? What is the right balance?

If a guy does not have to offer anything - comfort, care, protection, support - then he is effectively a friend with benefits - although a friend usually offers more. Yes, something is amiss but there has probably always been a lack of real connection and mutual support.
I can’t get my head around this perspective. “Women offering themselves for free” - what does that even mean? How are they “offering”, and men “taking”, when both are doing he exact same thing? Why are the men not “offering themselves for free”, and the women “taking”? This bizarre double standard really melts my brain.
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Old 25th September 2017, 8:39 AM   #45
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My post wasn't directed at anyone in this thread. I was mainly complaining about the way (some) corporate media seemingly try to supress unwelcome ideas/findings.

I think this is one of the more constructive threads on LS.
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