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It Never Ends -- ''older'' man (over 40)


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Old 19th September 2017, 8:10 PM   #1
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It Never Ends -- ''older'' man (over 40)

SHARING--IN DEEP FRUSTRATION.

I once had lunch with a buddy of mine--big shot professor, but very smart and wise. I felt embarrassed. I said, ''I'm messed up. I'm deeply in love with a young woman. And there's NOTHING I can do about it, because of circumstances I feel profoundly embarrassed admitting this to you.''

He looked at me, dropped his head towards his food, SMILED, looked back up and said, "Listen to me. And believe me when I tell you that I am telling you the absolute truth: I know a man right now--he's NINETY YEARS OLD, and married. And he is virtually going OUT of his MIND over a 70 year old woman he loves!

''So, my friend, here's a fundamental truth: It never ends. We are all DOOMED.''

I have been deeply in love with a former co-worker. She no longer works at my place. We used to correspond, in small talk, through email. Over a period of about eight years, I developed such deep love for her. I won't go into why. There are a number of reasons.

In time, she got married. I hadn't heard from her in two years. Recently, she showed up somewhere. Gave me a big hug, and informed me that her marriage is on the rocks. Why tell ME? Never before had she mentioned a single WORD.

So now, my mind is racing. And for WHAT!!!??? I can't do a goddamned thing about it!! I'm married. If I was in an Islamic country, PROBLEM SOLVED. Such as in Malaysia, where polygamy is common.

But, she wouldn't go for that anyway, being a modern, young woman. I've been tortured, mentally, for all these years. I have created intense fantasies. Nothing wrong with that. But, I began to actually BELIEVE the fantasies. Never has that happened to me about ANY woman.

When I say "believe'' those fantasies, that's exactly what I mean. BASED on those fantasies, I started making PLANS. I saw myself as suddenly wealthy. How? **** if I know!! I just knew it would happen.

And it all made 'sense.' I would purchase this magnificent home for her, in Wilmette, IL. It would be her studio [she's an artist]. Never would she have to be the 'starving artist' again. I would take care of everything.

Had I not had lived life, I would have been trapped in that fantasy, and LOST MY MIND, maybe. Fortunately (or UNfortunately) I snapped out of it.

And it SCARED me, because I was able to look back, as if I had been a completely different human being, and realize that I had lost my mind, temporarily.

She's 25 years younger than me. I don't have a snowball's chance in hell. I tell myself that, if I were to ''somehow'' get rich, I could convince her to ''be practical'' and realize that her day has come.

Be practical? And come with me based on....what? MONEY? Well...YEAH! At least I'd HAVE her....or so I wished to believe.

A quick side note for young men--Many years ago, when I was young, I used to MOCK the ''FOOLISH OLD MAN'' that makes a pitiful mockery of himself, by drooling over a young woman, and maybe even becoming lucky enough to get her, through his MONEY.

I used to say, ''Bull****!! There's NO WAY IN HELL I'm going to grovel to some woman, I don't care WHO she is!! There's billions of women out here. So, for ONE of them to turn MY head like that? BULL****!!!''

Well, lemme tell ya. I am LOST in her!! Every time I ''cure'' myself of her [the longest I've been ''cured'' is ONE WEEK] I fall right back into the deepest love funk-the SAME ONE I used to fall into when I was a young man.

It Never Changes. It Never Ends. So, young men, don't fool yourselves.

My other advice is, GET RICH!!! Even if you consider yourself DEEP, like deeply spiritually, or deeply meditative, or too ''practical'' or two ''level-headed'' to become possessed by a woman, don't fool yourself. And if MONEY can GET her, then HAVE IT!!

By some standards, I would be considered poor. I said by SOME standards. I'm not poor. But I'm STUCK. Even if I could get her, what could I do?. I have no REAL money. I could not do as is done in New York City.

You guys know about that? OH, BOY!!! Do you KNOW how many ''kept'' women there are in New York? It's like the KEPT WOMAN CAPITAL OF THE WORLD!!! And the only ones that can afford to have a kept woman are men with BIG DOUGH.

You're a FOOL if you think it can't happen to you!!! There is one out here FOR you, who can take your heart, mind, soul, body, and any other aspect of yourself that might exist beyond our current knowledge!!! She will TAKE IT!!! And it will be ALL HERS!!!

And you will be helpless--like a ****ing PRISONER!!!

Oy vey! [and I ain't even Jewish!!]]

I don't know what to do. I have written her, and with no exaggeration, about 1,000 emails, over the years, always ending up deleting them.

Now, I worry--and this just came to my mind recently--that, if I don't tell her how I feel, I might drop dead, one day, never having let her know. The thought of that is horrifying.

So, I feel that I MUST tell her. Yet, if I do tell her...what?. She might laugh. She might see me as just this pitiful old man, you know?

I keep in shape. I'm NOT ordinary, in my aging. That's because I've always done one thing or another--Yoga, jogging, Qigong (my current system). I see younger men that can't even run up a flight of stairs, to catch the train, without panting.

But, the IDEA of ''old'' haunts me; holds me back from telling her. As Cyrano de bergerac, who fell in love with his cousin, Roxanne, said when his friend said, ''Well, why not!!?? If you love her, tell her so!! so!!''

He eventually said, ''But she might laugh. It is the one thing that I fear!!''

I stopped drinking liquor in 1973. BIG mistake. I can't even take a goddamned DRINK now!!

No one need answer this note. I'm more or less just letting this out. Not that it will do me any good.

Peace

Last edited by ItNeverChanges; 19th September 2017 at 8:21 PM..
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Old 19th September 2017, 8:29 PM   #2
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George Best put it a little more concisely: "I spent a lot of money on booze, birds and fast cars. The rest I just squandered."
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Old 19th September 2017, 9:19 PM   #3
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Can you not try to transfer some of this attention towards your wife?

I'm not trying downplay your feelings for this other woman, but you married your wife because you were in love with her, so shouldn't that be your main priority right now?

If your feelings and sense of family obligation and loyalty are gone, shouldn't you address that first before considering to approach another woman?

You don't have to answer here. It is your life to do with as you wish. Just be honest with yourself and think carefully about what you are doing.
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Old 19th September 2017, 9:58 PM   #4
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I wish...

I ALMOST wish that my ''sense of family obligation and loyalty'' were ''gone.'' How easy things would be. But, I'm NOT from this generation. And, also, my character, as far as family and obligation, is infinitely too strong to be taken away from my wife and my obligations.

THINK a moment, if you can take yourself OUT of the mindset that you are used to! THINK of my pain, please, or not!!

You read that I SAID that there is NOTHING THAT I CAN DO. Nothing. If she, in fact, were to come to me and say, "I know that you love me deeply. And the feeling is mutual. I'M YOURS!!" I would be, at that moment, DEEPER in hell.

I'm not of this current generation. We didn't throw each other away, in my generation, as is done now. I'm not a Christian. By MY generation lived by the motto, "You carry your cross." I've know women who had alcoholics as husbands. Yet, they stayed with that man until DEATH.

I'm didn't come here as a HINT to find support for leaving MY WIFE!! I didn't expect that anyone would answer. I was somewhat talking to myself, out of FRUSTRATION; because of the impossibility of the situation.

Now, if you THINK, for a single moment, that there is something "wrong" with me, then think again. I am NOT the only human male, in all of human history, to fall in love with a woman even though he was married. I'm not. And you KNOW it.

You are a woman. You KNOW your power. Don't lie!!! You KNOW who you are, and what you can do to a man [FOR a man].

I'm in HELL. I'm in hell.

Do you care that men have HEARTS. Do you THINK that an ''obligation''; or social protocols; or RELIGIOUS protocols, can do a damn thing to block, control, deflect, the love that is real and that someone feels in his heart.

I USED to. I myself used to CONDEMN, in my more self-righteous days, the man who ''claimed'' that he had fallen in love with another woman. I would ASSAULT him with MY version of his obligation to his wife. And when I was more religious, I would invoke to him the ''sin'' of his ''wandering heart,'' and his need to ''repent'' and ''straighten up.''

No more. No more. No more. I have lived life. And, aside for myself, I have seen myself ELSEWHERE--everywhere. Everywhere, duplicated in other men.

I'm not leaving my wife--not after 26 years! The love I have for my wife IS WHAT IT IS. Perhaps not what you might prefer. But, when she comes home 10 MINUTES LATER than usual, I pace the floor IN FEAR that she's been in an accident. I worry about her health. At this MOMENT, I am working on a way that she will not have to work, and I can make enough money so she can work HALF time, or less.

It's love. Maybe not what YOU think. But it's love.

And I love AGAIN--someone else TOO. It's not either/or. We make NO accommodation for this, in our society. Instead, as we watch CHEATING go on ALL THE TIME, we express WONDER why men aren't loyal.

Tell me--which is worse? Is it worse that a man love another woman, in addition to his wife, and wants to MARRY HER. Or is it worse that, in our society, men are ALL OVER THE PLACE, having secret relationships; HIDING what they can't expression OPENLY.

I'm considered old. I'm DONE FOR. Also, as I said, I'm NOT of this generation. I'll never leave my wife--never.

The odds are clear--no hope for me with her. No hope. No answers. Look at your reply to me. It says EVERYTHING--and nothing. It says everything about being TRAPPED. But it says nothing about what to do.

I have only ONE hope. And that is, to have MORE dreams of her, when I go to sleep at night; to add a SIXTH dream to the five that I've had over these last eight years. That's my only hope; and my wish.

Or maybe to find another dimension, where we both exist as mates. Maybe learn to live as two different people. in two different dimensions. I wish.

I make no apologies for being in love, because love is nothing to apologize for. I love her.

I WILL admit one thing--Most likely, I have to forget about this. But NOT because of ''obligations.'' I have to forget about this because it will KILL me, quite literally. Some days, I can feel the stress, around my heart.

You can condemn me all that you wish. It wont change anything. It will not help me. No one can help someone who is burning in hell.
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Old 19th September 2017, 11:07 PM   #5
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Yes. there is no answer to your situation.

but you have my deep understand and sympathy.

we can't control whom we are attracted to. but we can control what we do about it (or can we?)

yup, life sucks. you attracted to someone that's no chance in hell. I know how it feels.
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Old 19th September 2017, 11:41 PM   #6
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Thanks..

Thank you. Life has meaning. Especially if you believe in life after death.

On the other hand, I sometimes think of a saying I heard for the first time, a couple decades ago--Life is a bitch. And then you die.

Well, its 10 54, central time. Time for me to go to bed--and, hopefully, dream.
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Old 19th September 2017, 11:58 PM   #7
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You can condemn me all that you wish. It wont change anything. It will not help me. No one can help someone who is burning in hell.
I don't condemn you, not at all. I could just sense your desperation and need to tell this other woman how you feel, so I wanted to warn you to think carefully about doing that. Some things cannot be unsaid and can have unforeseen consequences.

I also wondered if focusing your attention on your wife might help take your mind off her, but it doesn't sound that simple. I respect your commitment to your marriage, and I hope that in your vulnerable moments that it may provide you with some comfort.

Life isn't easy, especially when it comes to matters of the heart. I'm sorry that you are struggling and that I was unable to give you the advice or support you needed right now.

I hope you find some peace.
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Old 20th September 2017, 7:16 AM   #8
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Ah, that ol' black magic. It makes our imaginations run wild. You're in love with the possibilities. We are creative beings, we can't help it. But some things are better left to fantasy. What if everything magically worked out and you ended up with her? Years later, you would be in the same place you are now, or worse. (To wit: Eric Clapton and Pattie Boyd.) Recognize that this other woman is doing nothing more than holding up a mirror, sparking your own creative process, and channel that wonderful energy into other endeavors. And leave the door open to the possibilities of future magical adventures with your W.
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Old 20th September 2017, 12:45 PM   #9
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TO SCARLETT

"...so I wanted to warn you to think carefully about doing that."

No, I'm not going to tell her. I just want to, that's all. As you say, so much could go wrong, if I told her. It's just hard not to.

I also wondered if focusing your attention on your wife might help take your mind off her, but it doesn't sound that simple.

I've been caught up in a storm, in my mind, that I created. I think your advice is on target. I can't say that I can do it, though. One thing that helps is that I'm keeping very busy. I have a presentation to make at my job tomorrow, and that's been taking up time--rehearsing and all that. And other things are picking up.

Also, she doesn't write me anymore, now that her marriage is on the rocks. She said they're trying to make it work, but it looks bad. That's good for her. She should take care of her business, of course. We had only engaged in small talk, over many years. But, small talk or not, I miss seeing her emails in my Inbox! And her tiny picture in the upper right-hand corner of her emails.

It's strange. If I hear from her, it's great, but it's also frustrating. But if I don't hear from her it's frustrating.

I tell you something else that helps, but I HATE it: facing REALITY. I'm considered old. She's young. I consider myself in a kind of lower class. She speaks a foreign language fluently, is a powerful artist, is very sophisticated (but NOT a snob). She's married [so far]. On the days when I FACE those realities, and beat them into my head, I snap out of this. And I tell myself, "FINALLY!!" And I feel super.

Then, a day...two days...a week will pass, and the in one split second I'm in a deep love funk--truly messed up. I can't sustain facing reality. Because I don't want to. I've even, believe it or not, convinced myself, at times, that it's "God's Will" that we be together. LOL!! I'm sure God says, "Oh, REALLY!!??"

Then I tell myself that I wish I'd never met her. Why her? ONE woman out of BILLIONS. I'm not NEW to women, believe me. I've dated women from the streets, all the way to PhD; all kinds of professions. Why her? That's why I keep thinking that we MUST be destined to be together.

And maybe not in marriage. Maybe there's some OTHER kind of relationships--business, or something.

When I was young, barely in my 20s, my big brother, surprisingly, warned me of something. It was very strange. We were riding in his van. He goes, "Get ready, little brother, because it's COMING!!" I said, "What!?" He goes, "AGE. When you get older, you will begin to sense your mortality. And, because of that, you'll begin to CRAVE young women."

He's only 8 years older than me, and was still young himself. But, you know, he's always been smart--knows things. I tell myself that maybe that's what's happening: I sense, deep down, that my time on this earth is limited. And, as he further explained, I want to assure my IMMORTALITY through having more children. And that means YOUNGER women.

But that's CRAZY!! I have ZERO desire to have more children. He would say, though, that it's biological--automatic; has nothing to do with my desires on a MENTAL level. It's just nature.

I don't want to believe that!!! Because that seems to relegate my deep feelings of love to some kind of biological imperative, as if my love is like SNEEZING, or something; or taking a crap. I don't like that idea. But maybe he's right. Maybe I'm just a victim of nature--a natural human occurrence, not attached to the kind of love that i feel.

There's a song: There's no fool like an OLD fool. I sometimes feel like that.

I respect your commitment to your marriage, and I hope that in your vulnerable moments that it may provide you with some comfort.

Thank you. These words of you guys help, believe me. I hesitated coming here, because forums can be filled with people (usually young people) that only want to criticize and be sarcastic. So, I appreciate your kind words. Thank you.

Life isn't easy, especially when it comes to matters of the heart. I'm sorry that you are struggling and that I was unable to give you the advice or support you needed right now.

Are you kidding??!! It was more than enough just to read the response of a caring person. That counts for a lot. It helps me get through another day. I feel a lot better.

Peace,

R
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Old 20th September 2017, 12:55 PM   #10
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Your obsession is now beyond just being a crush, you need to seek professional help.

When we're married and someone else is feeding our fantasies on daily basis it's because we're seriously unhappy in our marriage. You just chose to throw your devotion onto this young woman instead of dealing with your marriage.

I am certain this young woman is not even at the basis of all of this desperation. You are compensating. Seek help.
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Old 20th September 2017, 1:02 PM   #11
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TO OPENBOOK

Now, this is WEIRD. You are only the second person that talk about creativity. This friend at my job, Steve, said that I have involved myself in a creative process.

I don't get it. I didn't understand it from HIM. And I don't understand it from you. It's something my big brother would probably say; probably know about.

I'm just a worker, not a philosopher. I guess I missed out on the deeper understandings of relationships; or of my own.........fantasies.

I certainly don't see this as having anything to do with creativity. Not that you're wrong. It's just a new thought to me.

My biggest wonder [or hope] is whether or not she feels the same way, but feels that she can't say anything. I don't want to say exactly what she told me once [I don't know why might happen across this forum].

But, for most of her emails, over the many years, she always ended them with, "Peace," and her name. Well, she didn't say "Peace." She said another word, but I don't want to use it an possibly reveal who she is.

But then, after many years, in TWO EMAILS, she ended those emails with,

Love,

and her name.

I admit that I possibly blew that all out of proportion. Because, after those two emails, she went back to ended her emails with "Peace." But my mind went ALL OVER the place, wondering. Why did she do that?

By the way, I don't know if I'd mentioned this, but we worked at the same place, then she left that place and moved on.

Channel these feelings to creative stuff, hey? Steve told me to write a novel. He's been suggesting this for years, not because of her, but because I like writing.

If I wrote a novel, with her as a character, I can only think that it would make things WORSE inside of me. I've been in such a bad state, at times, that I've wished I could leave the country--as if that would change everything. But, my wife's relatives are all hear, you know.

Crazy. Crazy stuff I'm going through.

Then I start thinking about people that have REAL problems, and I start feeling guilty that I'm bitching about "my heart," while someone's trying to figure out how to good food to EAT. One form of stress seems to bring on another.

YES!! You're right!! You can marry someone, be in love, and see her face [or his face] as PARADISE. Three years later, she looks like DEATH; or HELL. I understand that, yes. I would have NO idea how things would turn out.

I tell myself, "At my age, I can be much more patient than a young guy. I can take ANYTHING she throws at me. And I'd do it!"

Yeah, but would she lose respect for me? So many questions.

Last edited by ItNeverChanges; 20th September 2017 at 1:09 PM..
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Old 20th September 2017, 1:19 PM   #12
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I DID seek help. I went to a mental health expert. I PAID for it--three sessions. And it seemed to work for some months.

But what I didn't like is that she told me that it was her opinion that the young woman that I love was USING me. She claimed that, from what she could gather from the sessions she had with me, the young woman was "collecting trophies."

In short, she concluded that she was TOYING with me, and that nothing could come of it.

As regards my marriage, I disagree with your conclusion. That's a very, very common conclusion: If a man wants another woman, it's because he's having problems in his marriage. No, no, no. That does happen, yes. But it's not the only reason.

In human history, men have taken on more than one wife for a number of reasons--either openly or secretly. This much I do know. Sometimes it was to unite tribes, or families.

But, that kind of thing doesn't happen anymore, probably, too much. Especially in the U.S. But, does that mean that my feelings have to be based on some "problem" with my wife? I've been with my wife for...a couple of decades AND MORE. I mentioned the number in a previous note.

One might say, "Well, that still doesn't mean you don't have some deep problem inside of you about the marriage." True. But, for myself, I just don't buy it, that's all.

I will easily admit one thing, and I'm not alone on this. How many couples are able to keep, throughout their relationship, that special magical thing that happens in young love; when first getting married, and however many months or years it lasts after that. VERY, VERY FEW. But, they don't break up over it. Well, sometimes they do, but many do not.

I can admit, with ease, that, yes, I miss young love!! I miss the feelings, you know? I miss things. I suppose that's all normal.

Yet, despite that, I keep thinking that there MUST be something deeper with the young woman. I feel like we're made to be together, is what I'm saying. That's what I feel strongly. She apparently doesn't. I don't really know.

Thanks for your input. I will not discard your input. I will think about it more. But, at the moment, I disagree.
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Old 20th September 2017, 9:59 PM   #13
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But what I didn't like is that she told me that it was her opinion that the young woman that I love was USING me. She claimed that, from what she could gather from the sessions she had with me, the young woman was "collecting trophies."

In short, she concluded that she was TOYING with me, and that nothing could come of it. .
I tend to concur.

she obviously is leading you and feeding your imagination. It takes two to tangle. If she gives you clear signal that she doesn't like you, you won't be like this. so either she is deeply in love with you or toying you.

You have to find out which one it is to bring closure or cure you.
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Old 20th September 2017, 10:04 PM   #14
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If you don't want to find that out directly yourself(by letting her know that you want to be with her) then you need to give us more details why the therapist thinks she is using you, then we can tell you if we agree with the therapist.

My gut feeling tells me the therapist is correct.

if the therapist is correct then this woman is extremely evil.
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Old 20th September 2017, 10:09 PM   #15
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Get real man, if you are not rich and/or good looking...then the chance of that woman using you is 99%.

if you are charming then it is possible the woman likes you.

otherwise, you are just fooling and deluding yourself.
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