Do you agree with Scarlett Johansson?

[Springsummer]

So she thinks monogamy is unnatural. It's all over the news today. Do you agree or disagree?

 

I grew up believing one and only, and marriage is forever. but nowadays I don't know anything anymore.

[GunslingerRoland]

Of course she's right. Our biological urges as men are to procreate with multiple women. For women your biological urges draw you to different types of men at different times.

 

To make marriage/long term relationships work, takes a strong focus on keeping that commitment going even when our body may be telling us something misleading.

 

Look at like this if monogamy was the natural state of things, why would we need wedding vows and sometimes even laws telling us to be faithful. It would just happen.

[GoreSP]

Not a fan of people saying their way is the only way.

 

Some prefer monogamy (and the fact it's probably because it was drilled into their heads) and some prefer polygamy.

Both are fine, as long as both are honest with their partners.

[thefooloftheyear]

Who cares.?

 

It's just one person's opinion...Its really ridiculous how people somehow give special weight to someone that isn't trained in anything more than any Joe/Mary on the street...

 

TFY

[Woggle]

Some people aren't built for it and that is perfectly okay but be honest and don't mislead people. Just be honest.

[carhill]

So she thinks monogamy is unnatural. It's all over the news today. Do you agree or disagree?

 

I offered an opinion in a somewhat similarly focused topic here:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/mind-body-soul/sexual-reproductive-health-practices/612528-open-marriage#post7214765

 

I grew up believing one and only, and marriage is forever. but nowadays I don't know anything anymore.

Yes, so did I, reinforced by the iron fist of the Catholic Church. That's programming. Parental role modeling and societal and religious programming. Our brains are like computers, bioelectric computers. We get programmed. It's why we get up in the morning and go to work, often despising what we do but feeling we have to to survive. Same with monogamy. Society puts pressure on us. Some of us give society the finger and pay the price for that rebellion. Others conform and closet their non-monogamous tendencies. Others buy totally into the programming and live out their lives that way, without question or deviation.

 

As humans we have choices and then we die. Mortality spares no one. So, shall we supplicate at the altar of others to gain the benefit of their support and approval or go our own way? Up to you. And me. And everyone.

[central]

Monogamy and non-monogamy are both natural. The basis of monogamy is the natural human tendency to pair-bond, primarily for purposes of procreation. That's because it enhances the survival of children until they can function independently.

 

 

Of course, there is no reason to stay with the same partner once that happens, and in fact, it was often healthy for small tribes to have members pair up with someone else to increase genetic diversity and all the benefits that conveys for survival.

 

 

Modern monogamy is a social convention that is encouraged (and was often enforced) to promote social stability. It isn't necessary in modern, western society, but it is still the convention. It works well enough, but clearly is not natural in the form of a permanent bond, at least for many people (if not most). If it were fully natural, there would be no cheating, no divorce, etc. And so, since monogamy is no longer required for the survival of women and children, alternatives are becoming more common and accepted. And we all know that cheating - the original non-monogamy - always was and still is common.

[Shanex]

Whether Scarletts opinion is genuine or not, and although I like her a bit, me thinks she wanted to be today's Internet buzz.

 

I don't have a strong opinion. In short: to each his own.

[elaine567]

Monogamy obviates the fighting and territorial issues that would dog a society where only the fittest, the strongest, the richest ,the most powerful males get all the females and all other males are essentially redundant or are perpetually fighting either for the right to have sex or due to sexual frustration.

 

Henrich, Boyd, and Richerson go on to summarize the civilizing benefits of monogamy:

1. The pool of unattached men is reduced so that they do not form a potentially disruptive residue in society.

2. Crime is reduced since most crimes are committed by unmarried males. (In addition, longitudinal studies show that fewer crimes are committed by the same men when they marry.)

3. Political coups and factional fighting become less common because there are fewer single men willing to enlist in rebel armies.

4. Society becomes more productive because men work more when they are married.

5. Children do better because men invest in them instead of using their resources to obtain more wives.

6. Spousal relations improve because men and women are more dedicated to each other instead of merely entering an economic/ reproductive relationship.

7. Child marriages disappear and the age gap between husbands and wives narrows. There is reduced inequality between men and women and spousal abuse declines.

8. Young women are no longer hoarded and sequestered by their families in order to protect the value of the brideprice. Marriages become elective and more stable.

 

What Are the Advantages of Monogamy?Tough Questions Answered | Tough Questions Answered

[alphamale]

So she thinks monogamy is unnatural. It's all over the news today. Do you agree or disagree?

i tend to agree

[mikeylo]

I care about her views as much as she cares about mine

[aileD]

Biologically it's unnatural because biologically the male species are wired to spread their seed and create as much offspring as possible. However thst is not an excuse and that's not to say that human beings cannot be monogomous because we were blessed with a brain that is capable of logical reasoning and free will.

[preraph]

If you don't plan on having kids and can get people to go along with it, I have no problem not trying to be monogamous.

 

But if you have kids, you need to focus on raising them and providing for them, whether you're a man or a woman, and you can't do that if they're strewn all over the countryside.

[Sweetfish]

I wonder if this is a message so she can feel less guilty about her own actions?

[Tribble]

Many things that humans do are unnatural. Living in a house with central heating for example. Living in the dessert when you can get water from a tap as another. It doesn't mean we don't do them. As sentient beings, we have choices. In fact, everything is a choice. One of those choices is whether to be monogamous. If you believe it is unnatural and not something that you can do - don't do it. By trying to do something you don't want to, you are only hurting yourself and whoever you have tried to be faithful to.

 

There are many different lifestyles that are becoming more and more socially accepted. Monogamy is not the only choice. There will be some people who judge, but that is true for every choice you make.

 

To each there own. But that also means accepting and respecting that some people choose to be monogamous. I believe it is a choice. One that many, many people make every day of their lives. Some are happy and some are not but, at the end of the day, it is a choice they must live with.

[amaysngrace]

Maybe she's a committmentphobe and is just projecting.

[Gaeta]

Monkeys, wolves, beavers, angelfish, eagles, owls, octopus, swans, vultures, penguins, foxes, are just a few animals that are monogamous so when she says it's un-natural she just says that because it serves her to think so.

[normal person]

I wonder if this is a message so she can feel less guilty about her own actions?

 

Maybe the fact that monogamy didn't feel natural to her, leading her to exit a monogamous relationship, is precisely why she thinks it's unnatural. If it was natural, why would she even be in this position and why would we be having this discussion? Why would the divorce rate be so high? Why would anyone cheat on their partner? Just because some people agree to it and it works sometimes for those people doesn't mean it everyone likes it or that it's natural for everyone.

 

Getting married doesn't mean you stop becoming attracted to other people. It's just an agreement that you'll work, live, and procreate together under the terms of exclusivity. It doesn't mean your husband doesn't want to have sleep with other women, it just means he promised you he won't actually do it if you hold up your end of the bargain too. "Love" is a relatively modern social construct, and there was a great post already on the various practical functionalities of marriage.

 

Monkeys, wolves, beavers, angelfish, eagles, owls, octopus, swans, vultures, penguins, foxes, are just a few animals that are monogamous so when she says it's un-natural she just says that because it serves her to think so.

 

And what about the species that aren't? A quick Google search suggests that only 3-5% of mammals are monogamous. If it works for that 3-5% naturally, great. But that other percentage of 95-97% isn't doing your argument any favors.

 

so when she says it's un-natural she just says that because it serves her to think so.

 

And maybe she thinks so because it doesn't feel natural. If being in a monogamous relationship with her husband (or the one before that) felt natural to her, why wouldn't she still be with him?

 

It's like you guys are saying "She's just saying it's unnatural to justify her own actions."

 

Well if her actions suggest that monogamy wasn't natural for her, which they clearly do, why is it being suggested otherwise? If someone leaves a monogamous relationship because for one reason or another, it doesn't feel natural, why can't it be deduced that it then isn't natural for that person? Maybe I'm an idiot, but I don't understand this logic. If it was natural, she wouldn't want to leave.

[Gaeta]

She made a general statement that monogamy was not natural. She didn't say she is not made for monogamy.

 

Also she is just coming out of a relationship, people say all types of stuff when they just broke up like: never again, or women are just XYZ, or I am made to be alone, and we know all this is just pain talking and next thing you know they're in love again.

[Weezy1973]

Humans are semi-monogamous, which means some people are more naturally monogamous than others. Birth control is not natural and our much longer lifespans are not natural, and massive populations in cities are not natural and these factors could definitely lead to people being less monogamous even if it was a natural tendency...

[normal person]

She made a general statement that monogamy was not natural. She didn't say she is not made for monogamy.

 

She didn't say she was made for monogamy either.

 

Also she is just coming out of a relationship, people say all types of stuff when they just broke up like: never again, or women are just XYZ, or I am made to be alone, and we know all this is just pain talking and next thing you know they're in love again.

 

But the fact that she's "coming out" of a relationship really underlines the fact that "being in" a relationship wasn't natural for her. The point being, if monogamy was natural, it would've worked and she would've enjoyed it.

 

This is her second husband. Sure, there are lots of extraneous factors to consider too. But why are people so quick to deny the firsthand experiences of people other than themselves? The evidence is there. If monogamy was natural for her, she'd likely be in a relationship and feel it was natural. If it wasn't natural for her, she'd have issues with relationships and feel it wasn't natural -- and that's what happened. This whole "She's monogamous, but she's just saying that to justify her dissatisfaction or other actions" business doesn't make any sense, because if it were natural she wouldn't be dissatisfied or take other action. That's the only available evidence. It didn't work for her. Why are we trying to tell convince her and ourselves otherwise?

[Gaeta]

Maybe she just didn't marry for the right reasons. Scarlett is 32 years old, young, beautiful and probably fall for the wrong men for the wrong reasons like majority of us did when we were younger.

 

So all these put together, her youth, her environment (Hollywood), her state of mind just after a break up, tells me to take with a grain of salt what she is saying.

 

if she were 65 I would put much more weight in what she is saying.

[CaliforniaGirl]

Serial monogamy seems to be natural among the majority (this doesn't mean "all").

 

We tend to like/want to pair for durations of time, then after a period of years, we tend to lose that feeling but generally (again, this is just in general ) we will want to seek out a new partner, again for something to last at least a while.

 

I feel like human beings (all primates are different in this regard) seem to biologically want to pair-bond for the length of time, approximately, that it takes to get pregnant, complete that pregnancy, and for the child to then at least be old/mature enough to run away from predators on its own hind legs and perhaps seek out its own food. In that regard, really, things would make sense as the family unit is more protected, and protection is more needed when infants are involved.

[Lovehurtss]

Of course she's right. Our biological urges as men are to procreate with multiple women. For women your biological urges draw you to different types of men at different times.

 

To make marriage/long term relationships work, takes a strong focus on keeping that commitment going even when our body may be telling us something misleading.

 

Look at like this if monogamy was the natural state of things, why would we need wedding vows and sometimes even laws telling us to be faithful. It would just happen.

 

If monogamy is unnatural, then why do we have jealousy?

[CaliforniaGirl]

If monogamy is unnatural, then why do we have jealousy?

 

Because of competition, and because of a sense of scarcity brought on by cultural restrictions (i.e. you are only supposed to marry one person at a time so if someone else snatches that person up you may no longer have access to sex with him or her; you've lost out - or, if in a committed relationship, again due to either cultural requirements or extreme cultural influence, if that person goes to someone else, it is NOT assumed that she will continue to stay with you and you will continue to have sexual access to her as before...whereas if it were okay to keep having sex with more than one person, and to all have rights and resources and so on, that jealousy would not be necessary, because there would be no scarcity, everybody would be receiving).

 

In the non-human animal kingdom, jealousy is also due to scarcity. For example, with some animals, ONLY the male alpha may have sex with ANY of the females. Therefore, there is a sex scarcity for ALL the other males. Obviously a male having sex with five or ten females is NOT monogamy but you can see that jealousy is the result *because of enforced scarcity*, not because of a natural desire to be with just one mate for life.

 

Or when a female wishes the protection of a male but he takes on a second female AND ousts her, the first female, she is now without resources, and that's dangerous, maybe fatal. She subconsciously, or sometimes, consciously wants that protection back and she has always cemented that protection via sex and sometimes, caretaking of the male, preening and so on. Another female he likes better *to the exclusion of* her, *or* the "favored" female getting more gifts from the male, like food tidbits, for example, will produce strong, sometimes homicidal jealousy, again, even with no monogamy in this scenario.

 

We are jealous because in most modern day societies, if someone we want wants someone else besides us that person will probably leave us. If we were not afraid of that risk because we could culturally and legally have more than one partner at a time, all with equal rights and nobody at risk of losing benefits as well as sex acres, we would not "naturally" be jealous. This means we are not "naturally monogamous" as some sort of biological trait or something but rather, due to the threat of loss of our "possession" and source of our needs (affection, money, protection for our children, or whatever) being taken way due to our social setup requiring that we only have one "serious" mate at a time and requiring us to drop one if we find another we like.