Sexes 'upper hand' by age?

[Wade Lamare]

So, I've seen it mentioned here that women by and large have the 'upper hand' in dating.

I've also seen it mentioned, or at least alluded to here and on other websites that women have the upper hand only when they are young and that men gain the upper hand when they are both older.

 

I think the idea is that youth and beauty favour women when younger and they tend to pick from a smaller pool of men. This idea that (can't remember the exact figures so I'll make some up) 20% of the men are getting 90% of the action due to women's pickiness.

 

But that women somehow age less well than men and that men can become the picky ones after a certain cut off age, say 35 to 45, as they become in demand.

 

To a certain extent that is what happened to me, and I can see how some men would agree with this.

 

However if this is going on I think it is far more complex than the simple way many guys look at this.

 

Thoughts?

[basil67]

I know it's a common idea that men mature better than women. But I went to my 30 year HS reunion recently and I tell you, the percentage of women who had aged well was far higher than the percentage of men who had aged well.

 

I tend to agree with Enigma that it's more about older men having their life together.

[Shanex]

I find that turning 33 in a few months, I'm still attractive to younger 20s girls. The 30s women dig me to, some of them at least. I've even been as far as 50!

 

I agree with your point, OP. Women have the power when younger then the roles are reversed.

 

ETA: Not true of Nicole Kidman.

[Shining One]

My experience matches enigma's to some extent. When I was in my early twenties, women in their early twenties ignored me. I didn't hook up with a 19-year-old until I was 29. I personally don't seek out younger women, but it seems that considerably more younger women are open to dating me now than when I was in my early twenties.

[Osmium13]

I still find younger ladies attractive, but (even if I was in a position to go after them!) I wouldn't want to go below 25, as a general rule. To me that's broadly when people become adults mentally, I find those in their early 20's are in another phase of life and there's little I have in common with them. Obviously it depends on the individual and how mature they are.

 

Mind you - that's a bit rich coming from me. 39 going on 19

[GemmaUK]

I think some men age better, some women do too.

Single women and single men I know - the women look after themselves and their appearance more and socialise more too.

 

One of the reasons I am not dating is that the guys on dating sites are particular about weight and size - and they tell me their size is a 30/32 inch trouser but they fail to mention that their tum above the trouser line is 52 inches!!

 

I'm slim, size 8 UK with curves - women have a dress size, maybe men need one too!? Lol!

 

I know several attractive normal slim men my age - they are only ever the marrieds - they also have lovely wives.

 

The single guys don't seem to look after themselves - they only seem to be interested in doing something if there is a potential date coming up. Usually they try Slim Fast shakes for half a day or do a few sit ups not realising that crunches are what works better but that the weight needs to be lost first.

 

IRL I get approached by men in shape (same as me) in their 30's.

Men in their 40's have implied before that I'm a youngster - but I'm 47 and it usually turns out I am a year or two older than they are! Lol!

Online it's out of shape 50's to 70's.

[thefooloftheyear]

I know it's a common idea that men mature better than women. But I went to my 30 year HS reunion recently and I tell you, the percentage of women who had aged well was far higher than the percentage of men who had aged well.

I tend to agree with Enigma that it's more about older men having their life together.

 

 

I found the same thing....

 

But in fairness, I've heard women talk for years about "prepping" to reunions and getting personal trainers, boob jobs, botox, tummy tucks,veneers,etc...Then spending 300 at the salon and 600 for a dress....Its crazy...As if it was their wedding day or something....Its a BIG deal..

 

I take exceptional care of myself, but most guys just don't give a shyt about that stuff, particularly later on in life...Most were lucky to find an unstained shirt to go in...

 

My guess is most guys that had their shyt together physically aren't aren't bothering with reunions, but I dunno......I went, but it was pretty lame..

 

TFY

[Shining One]

Thinking about this a bit more, does the "upper hand" really change? If we compare men and women using the same dating strategies at age 35+, would men really outperform women? By dating strategies, I mean active vs. passive dating. I have little doubt that if both are passive, women will outperform men. If both are active, who would yield better results? Are there any 35+ ladies here who practice active dating?

 

Active Dating: Initiates interest and pursues those who reciprocate interest.

Passive Dating: Sits back and waits for others to show interest. Chooses from those who show interest.

[thefooloftheyear]

I've often wondered of certain aspects of human behavior and how it really is sometimes amazing that we continue to figure this out and continue to move along as a species.....

 

Women seem fickle and less self assured when young and at their peak attractiveness and child bearing years, and guys often struggle mightily during this time...

 

Then women find their sexual selves, just at the time when similar aged men may have grown cynical of the experience, lose desire or functionality, etc...

 

Of course there are exceptions....so it is what it is...

 

There are a few aspects I have noticed though...

 

Women seem to be the ultimate believers in true love and romance, no matter the age or circumstances....There are women I know that may have been burned by men a hundred times, yet still believe 101 is their Knight in Shining Armor, ready to whisk them off into blissful eternity...At the same time, I know guys that when burnt just once or twice give up on the game, fall into cynical solitude and their sports/hobbies.....This is especially true of middle aged/older guys...

 

As a guy that's just over 50, i am amazed at how many of my peers/friends have just flat out given up women altogether...These were guys that were all studs back in the old days...They claim no interest, lack of drive, lethargy, cynicism...Some have gotten bludgeoned in divorces, etc,If you notice most of the Viagra commercials are directed at women, because its probably that men just won't bother to do anything about it, unless nudged...Not sure there...just a guess...

 

So I guess if you are a middle aged guy in good shape that has your shyt together, still has a fire for women, its a bonanza of sorts...The numbers are clearly going to be in your favor, with many women picking from a relatively smaller pool of guys...

 

So I guess during certain times in our lives we may see some gender specific perceived advantages, I guess this stuff all balances out in the end...I dunno...

 

TFY

[mikeylo]

Not all men and women get better with age. Some do. Those who do, especially women ( because, lets be honest,most women don't. They become desperate ), have a higher demand from men with high age range bracket. They even attract younger guys. They age gracefully and that is very attractive to men of all ages. That grace brings along not just the good kept looks but the hard life experiences that actually shines through them. They are not trying to stay 20 in a body of 50 year old. They have had their share of problems but even then accept aging process.

 

Same goes for men. Aging is not just looks.

 

Now , the kind of woman I have described is in high demand but less in supply. Such people , both men and women have the upper hand.

 

Desperate women of age can be spotted from afar. Just like men.

[Imported]

It's not that men age better, it's that older men are usually more financially stable. That's your "upper hand".

 

Also, that was before women started being more financially independent themselves. However, I have no doubt the number of stay-at-home-wives still vastly out numbers that of stay-at-home-husbands.

 

Men are usually OK with women that are not great wage earners. Women, not so much. So even women that can afford "The American Dream" on just their income, will require a man that makes at least as much as they do.

 

So, learn, work, earn, advance, earn more, save and one day when you have enough there will be a girl that deems you worthy of supporting her.

 

It's not like that for every guy of course. I'm just saying that's why some guys get more attractive with age to women.

[phineas]

So, I've seen it mentioned here that women by and large have the 'upper hand' in dating.

I've also seen it mentioned, or at least alluded to here and on other websites that women have the upper hand only when they are young and that men gain the upper hand when they are both older.

 

I think the idea is that youth and beauty favour women when younger and they tend to pick from a smaller pool of men. This idea that (can't remember the exact figures so I'll make some up) 20% of the men are getting 90% of the action due to women's pickiness.

 

But that women somehow age less well than men and that men can become the picky ones after a certain cut off age, say 35 to 45, as they become in demand.

 

To a certain extent that is what happened to me, and I can see how some men would agree with this.

 

However if this is going on I think it is far more complex than the simple way many guys look at this.

 

Thoughts?

 

I'm almost 45 and divorced.

The pool of women 40+ still considered hot that are single and not trainwrecks is indeed very small and the pool of men still in shape is even smaller which means even if in shape and getting dates....are still in for a rough time. LOL!

 

Also, i meet hot divorced women who were "kept". never worked and supported by a rich guy.

Even with maint. and child support they still live like a pauper compared to what they were used to and want a man who can give them their life of just staying hot in a giant house.

 

The majority of women who are hot and single over 40 i've found:

Never married

some never had kids.

drink too much

love to party like in college.

tons of guys friends who pay her way everywhere because they are hoping for more and she knows it even though they are "just friends".

love attention from any and all man.

 

just not relationship material despite them claiming to want a relationship.

 

I've actually been going younger to find decent attractive women.

35-40 has lots of women divorced with kids around my kids age who are in shape and don't party like they are still in college.

 

When i deleted my online profiles and just went out while i was lean like my profile pic this summer i had plenty of attractive women initiate with me and a lot of times they would all of a sudden be dancing next to me at free concerts and at the end of the night be standing next to me even though no-one else was around. LOL.

 

So i'd say hi.

every other guy in the place late 30's on was dressed like a slob and very overweight.

 

 

Easy mode.

Edited November 26, 2016 by phineas

[Wade Lamare]

I know it's a common idea that men mature better than women. But I went to my 30 year HS reunion recently and I tell you, the percentage of women who had aged well was far higher than the percentage of men who had aged well.

 

I tend to agree with Enigma that it's more about older men having their life together.

 

Yes, agree. But as I was trying to say I think it is way more complex than one or two changes. I think there are many changes at various levels

 

One of my sayings is that "We are different people at different stages of our lives"

A kind of age triggered split personality

[dichotomy]

I saw it a little with my late twice divorced father. Once he got into his late 60's it got easier - some women were a bit aggressive. He also complained of widows carrying torches for their late husbands but wanting companionship. I also suspect the small area he lived in was not great for dating. My late uncle who's wife died, was a flamboyant guy living in an Urban area. He got plenty of women taking care of him - trips, dinners, etc...but he carried a torch for his late wife and never remarried.

 

I recently passed the 50 milestone and not sure I notice any extra looks or flirting from women my age range. And for some stupid reason I keep thinking I am younger.

[road]

Age has nothing to do with it.

 

 

A woman that was attractive when 20 will have men finding her attractive as she gets older. She will never have a problem getting dates. Same for men.

 

 

Some people age poorly.

Some people pork out as the age.

Some people will not exercise and no longer look toned.

So their rating drops and their worth on the dating market drops.

 

 

Can a man that was a 5 back in high school and could never even get a woman that was a 5 back then date a 10 now?

 

 

Outwardly he did not change but his becoming a Dr, high power attorney, Dot com millionaire, CEO Fortune 500 business, women will not care he looks average, got a gut, only 5'7". The house he will buy for them, furniture, vacations, clothes, cars, will more then make up for him being a 5.

 

 

So he can be delusional and think he has aged well. In reality only his income has aged well.

 

 

Or he has an average income but he is pulling in higher value women then he did in HS because many women in the mid tier ratings gave up on the higher rated men because the 6-8's out there that are not married so now available based on looks are total jerks. So they lower their standards based on looks, and settle on a man that has other assets that more then make up for so so looks.

 

 

As to the geezer studs. Well demographics controls that. Men die younger then women. So finally men come out on top. When age has made it hard for them to climb on top in the bed.

[elaine567]

I honestly do not think much changes, people who are in demand, stay in demand and those at the bottom of the heap stay there too.

There may be some movement downward due to illness, drugs, alcohol, mental health issues, poor life choices etc. and some movement upward due to self improvement, inheritances, luck etc. but most are at a level and stay around there.

 

Good looking people, people with money, the gift of the gab, a great sense of humour, fun to be around, mentally stable, intelligent etc. have the "upper hand" whether 18 or 80+.

[dichotomy]

Age has nothing to do with it.

 

 

Men die younger then women. So finally men come out on top. When age has made it hard for them to climb on top in the bed.

 

 

I think this has been the general argument - men die sooner. This has been historically due to - more hazardous or stressful occupations, violence, risky behaviors, resisting medical treatment/visits, general lack of care for their health, etc. So reducing men - it becomes supply and demand issues.

 

I have not looked recently.... but also remember reading some statistics about birth rates for men declining, also that less men and more women are attending college (social desirability) and other issues.

 

But I am not a statistician - but I can make observations on past older men in my family.

Edited November 26, 2016 by dichotomy

[Timshel]

Yes, agree. But as I was trying to say I think it is way more complex than one or two changes. I think there are many changes at various levels

 

One of my sayings is that "We are different people at different stages of our lives"

A kind of age triggered split personality

 

Quality/compatibility. No matter age or any other variables. The integrity of any relationship will determine the outcome, no exception.

[Recon33]

Age has nothing to do with it.

 

 

A woman that was attractive when 20 will have men finding her attractive as she gets older. She will never have a problem getting dates. Same for men.

 

I was thinking about this too. This idea that men get the upper hand with age makes sense in theory, but I feel like it gives some struggling guys in their 20's false hope. Some people are always going to struggle. And as long as women take care of themselves they should always be able to have some prospects.

 

I'm in my mid twenties and have been enjoying being single as best as I can and keep working on myself but I have a hard time believing that in ten years I'll be getting as much attention as a few of my successful guy friends got when they were 25. I guess I'll just have to wait and see but I'm skeptical.

[preraph]

I never once felt I had the upper hand in dating, and I am now an older woman. I did have a social life and all, but I did not have the upper hand. The ONLY guys I would say I had the upper hand with were guys I didn't want to date, so I want you to think about that and mull that over. We can say, No, not interested. But in no way when I was dating did I ever feel I was calling the shots. I was mostly waiting around anxiously wondering if he'd ever call again or who else he was dating or if he was hanging with the ex-wife. So that is a myth, and I really think all it means is that you can't make a woman date you if she doesn't want to, period.

[thefooloftheyear]

I was thinking about this too. This idea that men get the upper hand with age makes sense in theory, but I feel like it gives some struggling guys in their 20's false hope. Some people are always going to struggle. And as long as women take care of themselves they should always be able to have some prospects.

 

I'm in my mid twenties and have been enjoying being single as best as I can and keep working on myself but I have a hard time believing that in ten years I'll be getting as much attention as a few of my successful guy friends got when they were 25. I guess I'll just have to wait and see but I'm skeptical.

 

 

Its not false hope....Its absolutely true...Just use common sense....

 

While women have tried to change the rules of this game(relationships/dating), the fact still remains, a woman's value is highly dependent on her looks/body...And it wont matter if the guy is 20 or 90...Women in your age group are at the peak of their desirability as most can maintain their looks and physique at the easiest time in their lives..

 

Sure, looks are important for guys as well, but really only when they are around your age and up to early 30's....Then, more average looking guys start to earn "points" for stuff like status, money, Alpha qualities, etc.....Are there people that will struggle their entire lives?? Sure...men and women.....but they are really the outliers..

 

The women that know this and pay attention to it are the one's in the gym and rocking a hot body(not necessarily a 20 something body) well up into their 40's and even 50s.....Not afraid to spend a few dollars on a boob job or some other body mods..They always make sure they look good, don't wear frumpy clothes, wear make up, etc...If you could see who those women are with, its either good looking guys, successful guys, or some with both qualities..

 

So what does all this mean for the average 20 something, struggling guy?

 

If you want your chance at the plate, then work on keeping yourself reasonably fit and have a good career/some money....Because while the scenario I posed is really the essence of it, the reality is that as women age, if they can't keep up their looks as well as they once could, then all those requirements they had for a guy when they were in their 20's.,well, they start getting crossed off the list...And then the two shall meet...

 

PS...Sorry in advance...I know some women are going to say this is complete BS, and I sympathize...I personally think its a bad deal for women, quite frankly..Its objectifying...I get it...Ive just seen too many instances to not see how this works, and the cosmetic industry/plastic surgeons/personal trainers/etc are all very busy....

 

TFY

[road]

Its not false hope....Its absolutely true...Just use common sense....

 

While women have tried to change the rules of this game(relationships/dating), the fact still remains, a woman's value is highly dependent on her looks/body...And it wont matter if the guy is 20 or 90...Women in your age group are at the peak of their desirability as most can maintain their looks and physique at the easiest time in their lives..

 

Sure, looks are important for guys as well, but really only when they are around your age and up to early 30's....Then, more average looking guys start to earn "points" for stuff like status, money, Alpha qualities, etc.....Are there people that will struggle their entire lives?? Sure...men and women.....but they are really the outliers..

 

The women that know this and pay attention to it are the one's in the gym and rocking a hot body(not necessarily a 20 something body) well up into their 40's and even 50s.....Not afraid to spend a few dollars on a boob job or some other body mods..They always make sure they look good, don't wear frumpy clothes, wear make up, etc...If you could see who those women are with, its either good looking guys, successful guys, or some with both qualities..

 

So what does all this mean for the average 20 something, struggling guy?

 

If you want your chance at the plate, then work on keeping yourself reasonably fit and have a good career/some money....Because while the scenario I posed is really the essence of it, the reality is that as women age, if they can't keep up their looks as well as they once could, then all those requirements they had for a guy when they were in their 20's.,well, they start getting crossed off the list...And then the two shall meet...

 

PS...Sorry in advance...I know some women are going to say this is complete BS, and I sympathize...I personally think its a bad deal for women, quite frankly..Its objectifying...I get it...Ive just seen too many instances to not see how this works, and the cosmetic industry/plastic surgeons/personal trainers/etc are all very busy....

 

TFY

 

So it is objectifying when a man wants a good looking woman.

 

 

Though totally non-objectifying when a woman wants a good looking man.

[thefooloftheyear]

So it is objectifying when a man wants a good looking woman.

 

 

Though totally non-objectifying when a woman wants a good looking man.

 

 

No...

 

Its objectifying that looks and appearance are a huge part of how men measure women....and to a degree how women are valued in society..

 

TFY

[BluesPower]

I don't know the reasons but this definitely happens.

 

I am neither as pretty or as slim as I was in my 20-40 YO range.

 

But as a man, I am approached my much younger women and just women in general.

 

At 52, and I guess since I was about 30, I am more confident in general, have a few dollars, I am a better lover, and I understand how to treat a women far better than when I was in my 20's.

 

But I will say this, I really don't date the younger women, when I was dating, my experience is that they are just too immature and frankly, no matter how physical hot they are, the are not that good in bed.

 

I much prefer a mature woman, for example at 52 I would not date women younger than 45. By that age they are more well rounded and they know what to do in the bedroom.

 

I might go down to 40 with the right one, but that is about the hard limit.

 

BTW, a beautiful woman is as beautiful, maybe more so, at 50 as she is at 25.

[phineas]

I was thinking about this too. This idea that men get the upper hand with age makes sense in theory, but I feel like it gives some struggling guys in their 20's false hope. Some people are always going to struggle. And as long as women take care of themselves they should always be able to have some prospects.

 

I'm in my mid twenties and have been enjoying being single as best as I can and keep working on myself but I have a hard time believing that in ten years I'll be getting as much attention as a few of my successful guy friends got when they were 25. I guess I'll just have to wait and see but I'm skeptical.

 

I was a struggling guy in my 20's.

I married the first woman who gave me sex on the regular.

That ended badly.

Now though, I get it.

sure I lost weight and have an ok job.

I've developed extreme DIY skills and great in bed.

 

But other than losing weight the only thing i did that got women interested was basically just not caring so much if they liked me or not.

I stopped trying so hard and stopped chasing.

 

I learned if a woman likes me, she will let me know so until then go meet more women and well i got other stuff to do.