Do we have what it takes?

[Buddhist]

I had a [useless] thought last night and since I don't have a journal here it is. I realised that most of us aren't into love, we're into romance. Romance is....

 

- Looking for love rather than looking to love.

- Seeing relationships in terms of what we can get out of them instead of what we can put into them.

- Caretaking our wants/needs/desires instead of caretaking another persons feelings, or heart.

 

I know for myself I've had the partners I've felt worthy of at the time. Which is to say some pretty bad ones.

 

So I asked myself do I have what it takes to caretake another person's heart? It occurred to me that is a hell of a responsibility. To do it properly you must know that person at least as well as you know yourself. Otherwise you're just blindly doing stuff with no awareness of how it's going to affect your partner and taking the risk it won't break the relationship.

 

There we have it. Feel free to add your own [useful/useless] thoughts.

Edited September 27, 2016 by Buddhist

[mikeylo]

There are people who sometimes can't let go of a person even after break up. It's usually because how they felt when that person was in their life. That person gave , gave and gave while this person took , took took and took some more without giving much in return. Hence they were dumped and same reason they can't let go. One who is giving , making the other feel loved , are not getting good end of the bargain. They are human with equal needs and wants. If one can't give in return , they get dumped. Rightfully.

 

Look at the break up board. Most are guys. Same in second chances. They get chances. They get the girl back But they don't have it in them what it takes to keep. They get dumped again. They miss how the girl made them feel but forget that they also need to give back.

 

If one can't give , they lose the right to take. If one wants love, respect , loyalty , honesty etc they need to give the same back. If they can't , they deserve to be and stay dumped.

[Toodaloo]

Well I guess it depends on your perceptions...

 

I think there is nothing more romantic than an old cuple walking down the road holding hands.

 

Daft I know. But that resilience and ability to still show each other affection after years of colds, mortgage repayments, car breaking down, screaming babies etc...

 

That to me is both love and romance.

 

Mikey is right. The guys do seem to have a harder time and take more rubbish before they split up...

 

Drives me insane to be honest. I think I may join the bitter brigade and start complaining that all men want nasty women and no one wants a "nice" girl...

 

So in answer to your question Satu. Yes I want the romance. Because I deserve the romance. If I am doing and giving all of this I would be stupid not to expect the same in return... So yes I do want and expect it.

[Toodaloo]

Sorry Buddhist I muddled you up with Satu!

 

My bad!

 

One more thought though.

 

After waiting this blinking long to find "the one" and to get married etc I am afraid I am not dropping my standards to accept just any old guy that happens to be passing by.

 

I have waited for the best, sorted my issues out so I can give my best so damn it yes - I want the best. And no I am not settling for less than the most absolutely wonderful guy in the world. When I get him I am going to spoil him rotten and shower him with affection.

 

I just see not point in giving my best to people who are just not worth it or who simply do not want it...

 

Who wants this soap box before I go on???

[jen1447]

I have waited for the best, sorted my issues out so I can give my best so damn it yes - I want the best. And no I am not settling for less than the most absolutely wonderful guy in the world. When I get him I am going to spoil him rotten and shower him with affection.

 

And then he'll ditch you for being too clingy.

 

So I asked myself do I have what it takes to caretake another person's heart? It occurred to me that is a hell of a responsibility. To do it properly you must know that person at least as well as you know yourself. Otherwise you're just blindly doing stuff with no awareness of how it's going to affect your partner and taking the risk it won't break the relationship.

 

Not just know them but accept them, along w all their potential defects, and be willing to accommodate them.

[Toodaloo]

And then he'll ditch you for being too clingy.

 

Sadly you are probably right. But the right one will be just as giving and caring and loving as I am...

 

Either that or tied to the bed so he can't run!!! There are many ways to show affection... Mwah ha ha ha ha....

[jen1447]

Sadly you are probably right. But the right one will be just as giving and caring and loving as I am...

 

And then you'll ditch him for being too clingy. It's a vicious cycle.

 

I'm joking but there's actually some truth there and it speaks to Buddhist's original point in that ppl are generally self-serving and willing to ditch in an instant if things suddenly stop being perfect - for them.

[Toodaloo]

And then you'll ditch him for being too clingy. It's a vicious cycle.

 

I'm joking but there's actually some truth there and it speaks to Buddhist's original point in that ppl are generally self-serving and willing to ditch in an instant if things suddenly stop being perfect - for them.

 

Tell em what perfection is though?

 

Last time I was looking to buy a horse I wanted a 15.2 coloured cob. I ended up with a 17hh bay that was the best horse I have ever owned. He wasn't advertised or anything like that. The horse was battered, belligerent, temperamental and not at all what I "wanted". But we got on like a house on fire. Over 20 years that horse and I had together... And trust me, sometimes it really was far from perfect...

 

So this time I am not looking for something in particular in a man I am simply looking for one that I get on really well with. Some one who, like my horse, makes a great team when they team up with me.

[Haydn]

I can be clingy as hell and so can my better half.

 

There are no rules to any of this.

 

Not that i have found anyway.

 

Everyone is different.

 

I have chatted up girls and girls have chatted me up.

 

I notice a lot of posters asking, `should i text her/him or wait?`

 

Why wait? Get on with it.

 

(Sorry Buddhist, slightly off track)

[jen1447]

Tell em what perfection is though?

 

Perfection's when you're high on oxytocin and everything else is when you're not.

[Toodaloo]

Perfection's when you're high on oxytocin and everything else is when you're not.

 

No its not. Thats a false impression.

 

Besides its the imperfections we have that make us perfect for people...

 

No such thing as "perfect". Sod that.

 

Give me the guy who is a rough diamond or has a silly queef, or who has a secret passion for the Teletubbies... All these things make us who we are and define us as individuals.

 

Perfection is boring. Life doesn't go that way. How are you going to ride the waves if you are not prepared to get wet?

 

Stoic, dependable, stalwart those are far more worthy to worry about then what the Smiths at number 32 are doing...

[Miss Peach]

Look at the break up board. Most are guys. Same in second chances. They get chances. They get the girl back But they don't have it in them what it takes to keep. They get dumped again. They miss how the girl made them feel but forget that they also need to give back.

 

I had never noticed most of those boards were men. In any case, most of my breakups have come when the guys does something I've told him not to and/or has disappointed me too many times. At some point you have to have some self esteem and say this isn't a good match for me - even if you really love and care about the person.

 

Not just know them but accept them, along w all their potential defects, and be willing to accommodate them.

 

This is a big thing in relationships. I have to be able to accept them as-is. I also have to feel accepted as-is. Otherwise it's a no-go.

 

I'm joking but there's actually some truth there and it speaks to Buddhist's original point in that ppl are generally self-serving and willing to ditch in an instant if things suddenly stop being perfect - for them.

 

I think that's true for a lot of people but I am on the other side of it. I had to learn to put boundaries in there and learn to walk away if they keep getting stepped on.

[SammySammy]

I had a [useless] thought last night and since I don't have a journal here it is. I realised that most of us aren't into love, we're into romance. Romance is....

 

- Looking for love rather than looking to love.

- Seeing relationships in terms of what we can get out of them instead of what we can put into them.

- Caretaking our wants/needs/desires instead of caretaking another persons feelings, or heart.

 

I know for myself I've had the partners I've felt worthy of at the time. Which is to say some pretty bad ones.

 

So I asked myself do I have what it takes to caretake another person's heart? It occurred to me that is a hell of a responsibility. To do it properly you must know that person at least as well as you know yourself. Otherwise you're just blindly doing stuff with no awareness of how it's going to affect your partner and taking the risk it won't break the relationship.

 

There we have it. Feel free to add your own [useful/useless] thoughts.

 

You're on to something here.

 

Relationships are a delicate balance between loving another person and loving yourself. While the other person does the same.

 

Problems arise when something throws that balance off. Too much love for others; too much love for self. Not enough love for others; not enough love for self. In either partner.

 

I believe I have what it takes. I'm at a point in my life where I'm capable of fully loving, honoring and cherishing a woman. While loving, honoring and cherishing myself. Respecting each other.

 

The challenge is finding someone with which I can have that delicate dance.

[jen1447]

No its not. Thats a false impression.

 

Besides its the imperfections we have that make us perfect for people...

 

No such thing as "perfect". Sod that.

 

Give me the guy who is a rough diamond or has a silly queef, or who has a secret passion for the Teletubbies... All these things make us who we are and define us as individuals.

 

Perfection is boring. Life doesn't go that way. How are you going to ride the waves if you are not prepared to get wet?

 

Stoic, dependable, stalwart those are far more worthy to worry about then what the Smiths at number 32 are doing...

 

I doubt many ppl operate that way tho Toodles, most are looking for 'the dream' and when it doesn't pan out in favor of real life, they're all too willing to suddenly surrender those same impulses that drove them to those heights in the first place and crap all over the person who took them there so they can go dream-chasing again. It's just human nature - ppl are very rarely genuinely altruistic and mainly just act that way when it suits them. Otherwise it becomes an "I owe it to myself ...." justification for running out on the ppl who counted on them. :/

[Toodaloo]

ppl are very rarely genuinely altruistic and mainly just act that way when it suits them. :/

 

This is very true and why I find it so hard to find someone compatible with me.

 

I had someone actually ask me on a date why I bothered to put so much effort into helping dying children when they are going to die anyway and wouldn't it make more sense to do fun stuff for healthy children as they can enjoy it more...

 

He was serious in asking. He really didn't understand why... He didn't get a second date.

[Emilia]

So I asked myself do I have what it takes to caretake another person's heart? It occurred to me that is a hell of a responsibility. To do it properly you must know that person at least as well as you know yourself. Otherwise you're just blindly doing stuff with no awareness of how it's going to affect your partner and taking the risk it won't break the relationship.

 

There we have it. Feel free to add your own [useful/useless] thoughts.

I had similar thoughts yesterday when the penny finally dropped regarding one my relationships.

 

I was trying to work out why we both struggled to let it go and I realised that he was too forgiving and I am too ready to feel guilt.

 

He forgave me something that really he shouldn't have and in his shoes I wouldn't have (it wasn't cheating). He showed this very generous side of him, working through the hurt and that made our bond tighter because my respect for him grew.

 

However, that still meant that the relationship had run its course, there should have been no forgiveness, I was ready to move on and only stayed in the vicious circle because he was so incredibly generous and loving.

 

There is such a thing as people being their own worst enemy and I think every person should be responsible for the caretaking of their own heart. Not to source out that responsibility to someone else.

[Emilia]

most are looking for 'the dream' and when it doesn't pan out in favor of real life, they're all too willing to suddenly surrender those same impulses that drove them to those heights in the first place and crap all over the person who took them there so they can go dream-chasing again. It's just human nature - ppl are very rarely genuinely altruistic and mainly just act that way when it suits them. Otherwise it becomes an "I owe it to myself ...." justification for running out on the ppl who counted on them. :/

It is sometimes hard to know what is a healthy challenge in the relationship and what is codependence where you should be leaving instead.

[Gloria25]

No, I don't think a lot of people have what it takes to be in a RL, be romantic, and/or find love.

 

Why?

 

For one, people are so selfish and self-centered. Right there is the root of most problems. They enter a RL wanting to receive and not give. It's all about "me", and what I want. They even have kids and marry to show off and put ten pics on Fakebook.

 

Two, lack of any social graces. Men don't court anymore. They also want instant sex w/o even taking you out for an ice cream. No more romance. You have socially awkward guys who can't even show up properly dressed for a date. Then a lot of women are at fault too. They don't put expectations on guys. They offer to pay some guy's bills and are ready to have sex, shack-up, even have kids w/o the guy even becoming a man. Then, women also have no idea how to treat a man. Cooking, cleaning, or simply bringing him a cup of coffee is beneath them and a sign of "submission".

 

Lastly, all this equality crap. Lemme ask, on a football team is everyone the quarterback? Why? Cuz everyone has their role, and they come together to be a winning team. But no, now a days people are too busy keeping score as to whether or not both partners are working, etc. Gosh, and the use of the word "partner", just kills it. My man is my "man". The simple use of the term "partner" takes all the love out of it. Sounds like a business "partner", rather than my lover, man, husband, and lifetime friend.

 

I got more to say, but just trying to keep it simple.

[Arieswoman]

MKD post #13 sums it up here;

 

 

Relationships are a delicate balance between loving another person and loving yourself. While the other person does the same.

 

Problems arise when something throws that balance off. Too much love for others; too much love for self. Not enough love for others; not enough love for self. In either partner.

 

And this is always the challenge in relationships.

 

The ideal relationship is one where you can grow and develop as a person while at the same time allowing the other person to do the same.

And this has to be carried out in a way that doesn't impinge on/threaten the primary relationship.

And then you throw kids and life issues into the mix

 

It's a tall order, which is why so many relationships fail....

[Arieswoman]

Gloria25 post #18

 

Two, lack of any social graces. Men don't court anymore. They also want instant sex w/o even taking you out for an ice cream. No more romance. You have socially awkward guys who can't even show up properly dressed for a date. Then a lot of women are at fault too. They don't put expectations on guys. They offer to pay some guy's bills and are ready to have sex, shack-up, even have kids w/o the guy even becoming a man. Then, women also have no idea how to treat a man. Cooking, cleaning, or simply bringing him a cup of coffee is beneath them and a sign of "submission".

 

Those are some very valid points.

 

It seems that there is all this rubbish now about "having to have sex on the third date" - whaaaat?!

 

And all this texting cr@p - gee whizz girls, why do you allow this lazy impersonal communication? Don't you think you deserve a guy that can pick up a freaking phone and actually talk to you?!

 

So IMO females can help to raise the bar by sticking out for respect, manners and good old fashioned courting.

[Emilia]

It seems that there is all this rubbish now about "having to have sex on the third date" - whaaaat?!

 

And all this texting cr@p - gee whizz girls, why do you allow this lazy impersonal communication? Don't you think you deserve a guy that can pick up a freaking phone and actually talk to you?!

 

So IMO females can help to raise the bar by sticking out for respect, manners and good old fashioned courting.

It depends. Some of us don't want to wait until the 3rd date necessarily and I prefer texts over calls - unless there is something specific to discuss. I don't have the patience for or interest in old fashioned courting.

 

I much rather have conversations in person, most definitely don't care for late night calls unless we are in a serious relationship as obviously it's likely that our lives are entwined and probably need to discuss stuff frequently.

 

I think there is a danger of building relationships with men that only go through the motions because it's what's expected in order to get you into bed. I'd much rather he spent time with me because he actually wanted to.

[Shepp]

Call me a naïve daydreamer or whatever you like but I believe that still the majority of relationships are good, not perfect, but good! And I believe that the majority of people are good, not perfect, but good.

 

Sometimes is it not chicken or the egg? As in people might be more than capable of being in a relationship and loving someone else, but they need to find the right person to bring that out of them.

 

I loved my missis a long time before we started dating. Love not Romance. I cared about her massively, I gave everything, I persevered, past the point that many people would call it dumb! - Her greatest concern, the very thing that held her back was that she didn't think she'd have it in her to be a good partner, she didn't think she'd be selfless enough.

 

But I always believed she would be. I saw it in her even if she couldn't see it in herself. To be honest the very fact that she was even worried about that only told be she was a safe bet.

[MrDuck]

Tell em what perfection is though?

 

Last time I was looking to buy a horse I wanted a 15.2 coloured cob. I ended up with a 17hh bay that was the best horse I have ever owned. He wasn't advertised or anything like that. The horse was battered, belligerent, temperamental and not at all what I "wanted". But we got on like a house on fire. Over 20 years that horse and I had together... And trust me, sometimes it really was far from perfect...

 

So this time I am not looking for something in particular in a man I am simply looking for one that I get on really well with. Some one who, like my horse, makes a great team when they team up with me.

 

I love this! I'd like it twice if I could!!!!

 

My gf is so far removed from my "type"!! I consider myself a nonconformist, a free spirt, a risk taker, ...and you know that's the kind I go for too.. the dreamer, who's not tied down by practicality!

 

So all in all it took me by surprise when i fell head over heels in love with my beautiful, pragmatic, logical, down-to-earth, black-and-white-thinking, straight shooting, wonderfully sarcastic girlfriend.

 

I wouldn't of expected it but I find her personality and her outlook madly attractive!!!

I used to think that being pragmatic made a person dispassionate, but that was narrow-minded of me and she shattered that illusion! We might come at life from completely different angles but we share all the same values.

Se doesn't just complements me in all the ways I lack, she doesn't just make me a better man in every way for her coming into my life, she also makes my heart beat faster than any women has before!

 

On paper i'd of said no way. Me and her would never work. We we're miles apart and we'd be lost in translation but we're not...

 

I wear my heart on my sleeve, I look for others that do the same, i thought there was strength in that. But I love her layers, she's got this hilariously dry sense of humour and if you asked those we worked with they'd probably tell you she couldn't care less what people think of her, scared of nothing, a few of them would probably have her down as cocky. But then I get to see behind the front, she's got this huge heart, she's more than a little shy, and she cares more deeply than anyone I've ever met. And all that is like our little secret, this whole other side of her she saves for me, not the world at large.

 

That girl single handedly changed my 'type'! I didn't have family, and I moved lots, and I guess you might have called me flaky, and I certainly went for flaky girls. But (aside from my son, who is my pride and joy) she is the most committed, solid person I've ever had in my life. And I didn't know how great that feels!! I've never trusted anyone the way I trust her. Maybe i haven't alwasy been the most trustworthy many, but for her, I want to be the man of her dreams. I want to be the person that she can trust the way I trust her!

 

Same deal from her point of view, she certainly wouldn't have gone looking for a guy like me!

 

Shepp's right! She aint perfect ...she's my 17hh bay! :love:

[Toodaloo]

Shepp's right! She aint perfect ...she's my 17hh bay! :love:

 

Now if only I could find a man like my horse...

 

My horse was not perfect. He was as stubborn as a mule and was highly dangerous with the wrong people near him. With me he was wonderful. He would go round a 5ft cross country course then do an RDA lesson or take a disabled person out for a hack. In the wrong hands he would kick, bolt, buck, rear and barge. In mine he would nudge for one of his special ear scratches (which he trained me up very well with so I wouldn't notice I was doing it when he wanted them!!) or hold one of his feet balanced on my toe for as long as I wanted it there. Was I the perfect rider? Hell no! Half the time it was kamekaze style that seemed to work for us. We gathered strength and courage from one another. We trusted each other. We communicated well with each other and respected each other. Team work. No "boss" or "in charge" but "team". There was a constant unspoken dialogue all the time between us.

 

The best things in life are not perfect. They are the things that work well for you. And in the context of a relationship, people that work well together.

 

So yes, I do want to lavish affection on my partner with out fear that he is going to think I am clingy because I got him a stupid Buddha butter dish (ended up keep that as it is rather cool and I had my doubts about that little fling), or I stuck a stupid note in his pocket, or baked him cake, or took him out some where he loves for the day, or snuggled up with him... because quite frankly the man who is right for me will love all of that and will reciprocate as well.

 

Will it be "perfect"? I doubt it. I have far too many annoying habits to drive him insane with and at the age I am dating I am guessing he will have developed his own by now too.

 

Will it be good? If I choose the right man it will be better than good. It will be awesome! That is what I want. I don't want perfect. And I certainly can't be bothered wasting my time on the bitter and resentful men I seem to meet these days.

[preraph]

I agree with you, Buddhist. Most young people especially are in love with love or romance like in the fairytales and movies. I was certainly that way. I still am, really. The day to day work it takes to maintain a nonglam relationship was never in my repertoire, so I didn't do it.

 

That said, I do have the capacity for long-term love, and the most important men in my life, I remember my friends telling me it wasn't love, it was lust and that didn't last. But decades later, I am still at least friends with them, so I picked people who I truly did have a big deep connection and a lot in common with and that carried the relationship into the future, even if for a variety of reasons, it wasn't able to be a marriage (one because I didn't want kids and one because of his alcoholism and early ED problems). Still, I both loved and lusted these men and it was real. It just wasn't conventional. Because I am not conventional. We each have our own unique way to love and yet we all grow up trying to fit it into the one mold that is the convention wherever we live.