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Mindset of a Bully - some insight?


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I had an odd conversation yesterday and it was with someone who is known to be a bully.

 

She came up to me, no one else was in earshot and she said 'thanks for earlier' I said 'no worries, glad to help' as we had been in a meeting earlier that day where I had been called in for advice on something which I gave - all was good.

She then said something I totally didn't understand as my mind was on the meeting.

 

This is how it went:

Her: Thanks for earlier!

Me: No worries, happy to help! :) If you need more help with the file or need more info pulled through and if you have any issues run it by me and I'll see what I can do.

Her: Don't you EVER do something again for someone who doesn't have enough self confidence to do it for themselves.

Me: Sorry, what?

Her: I didn't say anything (this was in a nano second and immediate)

Me: Yes you did but I didn't understand it, what are you on about?

Her: Don't worry, I was talking to someone else.

Me: So whatever it was is something I don't need to know about?

Her: Yeah

Me: OK, so I can remain oblivious then?

Her: Yeah, do that, I always stay oblivious.

 

She walked away at that point and I thought nothing of it.

I got home and it crossed my mind several hours later.

Reason being there could be two reasons (from this week) she said what she did to me but to be honest she doesn't have capacity to bully me personally so she isn't on my radar as it were - hence my face was a blank when I didn't understand her. I just totally didn't twig until much later.

 

Has anyone any clues how a bully might feel if a 'warning' such as that was just not responded to how they would have preferred?

I guess the thing I found odd was that she could have validly said this to me yet when questioned she backed right down and first off said 'I didn't say anything'. She didn't elaborate.

If she had have elaborated so I understood what she was on about then I would have had a conversation with her no question.

 

The other thing is that since I remembered this I can recall vaguely a few times where she has said something out of context, left it unexplained in pretty much the same way and I have just never been aware, never thought over what she might have meant.

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I don't try to understand a bully. I just try to keep feeling sorry for them to resist the urge to punch them in the throat.

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Has anyone any clues how a bully might feel if a 'warning' such as that was just not responded to how they would have preferred?

 

I guess the thing I found odd was that she could have validly said this to me yet when questioned she backed right down and first off said 'I didn't say anything'. She didn't elaborate.

 

If she had have elaborated so I understood what she was on about then I would have had a conversation with her no question.

 

The other thing is that since I remembered this I can recall vaguely a few times where she has said something out of context, left it unexplained in pretty much the same way and I have just never been aware, never thought over what she might have meant.

 

That sounds really freaky, Gemma. I've very occasionally encountered people who behaved like that. In one particularly memorable case it was a woman from another discipline (and organisation) who had just returned from long term sick leave. Her behaviour to me was so outlandish that my boss wanted to write a letter of complaint to her boss. I asked her not to.

 

This woman had clearly felt undermined by me. In all the circumstances, it was not rational or fair for her to feel that way...but I just went with "this is how she's feeling, I'll respond with an unshocked, polite and reassuring letter and hopefully that will be an end to it." When I subsequently met the woman at a meeting, she behaved as though I was her long lost best friend from childhood. She clearly had problems on a level that you wouldn't really expect anybody in her profession to have...but my sense was "well, let somebody else sort that out. I'm not about to get embroiled."

 

When I was younger, I was far more likely to respond to anybody I regarded as a bully in a fairly aggressive way. I must admit that when I first read your post I was tempted to suggest that you walk up to her, make a few moments of intense and not very friendly eye contact with her and say "thanks for earlier" then walk off. That was the kind of thing that, years ago, I sometimes indulged myself in with people I thought were trying to play games with me. But really, it's just drama...getting sucked into exactly the sort of thing they maybe want to suck you into.

 

I think generally, whether somebody's strange behaviour strikes you as a sign of extreme fragility or of psychopathic, Machiavellian tactics, staying composed and being fairly empathic (but ideally not so much that they'll see you as too much of a soft touch) is the best play. And also, a certain lack of curiosity can be helpful at times. Just sends out a message of "I'm not really interested enough in you, or in what makes you tick, to spend much time getting to the bottom of that weird comment".

 

I think you handled it really well, btw. The woman just sounds like that type who's always throwing out little "I'm wounded...I'm triggered...I'm offended" jabs to inspire mild guilt in other people, but who never takes up the opportunity to discuss it in any constructive way. I wouldn't even do her the favour of aggrandising her as a bully. She sounds quite sad, really.

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Bullying comes from insecurity. Trying to project externally what they don't have internally.

 

That was self-talk. Trying to reassure herself and appear confident in front of you. From this conversation, I would assume you are naturally confident and that is ... foreign ... and somewhat intimidating to her. So, she needed to psyche herself up. That's why she blurted it without thinking and then couldn't discuss it with you. Self-talk.

 

This was not about you. It's all about her internal issues.

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Thank you all for quick replies - I have scratched my hair so much I may well have a bald patch! Lol!

 

It was simply bizarre!

There could be one or two reasons though..

 

 

The following could be one.

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/platonic/business-professional-relationships/592235-colleague-putting-blame-me

 

In the situ in the thread I have posted is something I did speak to our boss about - he had no damn idea that Ms Bully had threatened her staff - he didn't like it - he also was not sure he liked that I had told him. I apologised and said I had decided I would rather be in **** with him than him not know. He understood.

Two staff were threatened with action from HR, One I could absolutely support but also I wanted to make sure the boss knew the threat was there - he didn't - I believe 100% that if a threat like that is in the air the bosses should all know.

 

Elaine - that meeting our boss called me in, the bully is a manager and under her is a supervisor but both myself and the bully report to the same boss - he is a director.

Yesterday Ms Bully had a meeting with our joint boss - part of it was to do with info I had supplied for a request from Ms Bully in the way we do something - all OK and that was why I was called in.

 

They were in there a long time after I left though so the boss may well have said something about my feeling that it was out of order to impose a disciplinary threat without it being specific/real.

 

But - later in the day a parcel arrived - one of Ms Bully's team had it in her hands - she had left for the day but brought the parcel back in and didn't know who the recipient was - he happened to be very high up and on the other side of our building. I offered to take it to him as she had no idea who he was and heck I was nearer to the door going into his side of the office!

 

So her comment could be about either - but I think I made her warning fall flat?

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If she's a known bully then most likely it was a ploy to seed your mind w exactly these sorts of doubts and uncertainties. Some ppl specialize in that sort of approach to things - keep those they see as their enemies off balance and mistaken or unsure about their intentions. It's a variation on passive-aggressiveness. Pretty common in the relationship world actually, so think of it that way if it helps.

 

This is sth everyone has to decide how to handle for themselves but frankly if it was me (and assuming I saw it for what it was) I would have told her right away "don't come in here mumbling jabs under your breath at me" and let her escalate it however far she wanted to from there. If you let them off the hook like decorum most often says you should, it just tells them they've got another inch to push you, which they'll very likely use in the future.

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I think her saying that to you where no one could hear is the same as how abusers threaten women and act like it never happened. Then the women who don't call them on it right then and there, they know they can keep doing it to them. Anyone else will call them out. With people trying to give you secrets to hold like that, the best thing to do is LOUDLY right then and there repeat back what they said so the whole room can hear and do it laughingly if you want to. But that way, you have some witnesses, sort of, but most of all, if you bust her loudly and immediately, she'll know you will blow the whistle on her if she keeps it up.

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I think your actions were on the ball, you challenged her about what you thought she said. It sounds like she is someone who finds it difficult to control her unpleasant impulses. You will be a threat to her if you are challenging her bullying through other means or at least drawing attention to it. I would keep a careful eye on her, maybe go so far as to have a recording device hidden away when speaking to her. I don't say this lightly, but bullies can be dangerous and having a record of any threats or bizarre incidents might prove to be important later.

 

Just watch your back. Sorry you are in this situation; I'd feel uneasy about her too.

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I'm actually feeling pretty good about how it panned out if that makes any sense. Where I didn't twig it straight away she basically wasn't confident enough herself to carry it through seconds after she said it.

 

Had I figured what it was about and called her out on it then she would know it had 'an' effect.

As it is she won't know I'd run it through my mind later and figured her out.

 

I might casually run it past my manager but if I do I will make sure that he knows not to say anything to her. I'm in a better position if her bullying tactics aren't working on me. I will likely ask him if he said anything to her that day about the complaint I made to him - at least that way I'd know whether her comment related to that or the dumb parcel incident (or both). I won't see him for 2 weeks now as we both have some time off.

 

I really am wondering how she felt though. Her reaction to my questioning her sticks out a bit as the bully being an actual coward.

I've read up plenty on bullies but have no clue how a bully reacts when their comments don't hit the spot they were intended to.

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She may be testing the water, see how you'll respond to a few little lines. Be careful as what you do now could either shut it down, or make it worse. You want to show that you're not bothered, way above it, but also show that no one disrespects you or talks to you like that. I would casually and off the record speak to your boss. From there, just be prepared and ready to respond should she start on you again. Bullies, sadly, prey on weakness, but first they have to find that weakness. Luckily they also pretty much always back down once stood up to as bullies do only go for those weaker than them, never stronger.

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Luckily they also pretty much always back down once stood up to as bullies do only go for those weaker than them, never stronger.

 

I disagree. I think bullying in and of itself is a sign of weakness. Sure they frequently go for those they view as vulnerable but they also go for those who they deem stronger than themselves which is why they try to knock them down a peg.

 

I think in this scenario it's the latter.

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Must admit I have no idea whatsoever whether she thinks of me of weaker or stronger than her and I don't care which she thinks.

I would say she is in a stronger position being a manager except for the fact it has been made weaker by her behaviour and so many extended and brief periods of time off sick where we have taken no hit to the business and her team has successfully done the job without her being around.

I struggle to argue a day off at times and it was touch and go back in July to take just one day off.

 

When I see the boss in a couple of weeks I will ask him if he said anything to her. He seemed to want to after I had spoken to him - he said he would likely say something but he would have to figure out how and what to say.

 

She has been happy as a skylark this week - that again is something I have noticed - she is supremely happy in herself once she has had a spat of bullying.

 

Why people do this is beyond me. Why not just go in, do your job, go home?

 

This little scenario to me is purile except there are two people very upset and feeling their jobs are at risk. That's not fair IMO.

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You often hear bullies say they were bullied when young. I'm not convinced of this. I believe it is nature not nurture and it is a personality trait. Any of us could say we were bullied in the past and come up with incidents.

 

One thing that recent research has found is that bullies get a kick out of what they do. It makes them feel good. Those of us who have genuinely suffered due to bullies know that! We know they were the kids at school who had a gang because they were leader types and the gang feared them. Other kids never stood up for those who were bullied because they were afraid the bully would start focusing on them instead. We all know the playground rules.

 

Following on from above, I really do think bullies will try to have their way regardless. A bully needs to be watched. They should not be put in positions of power, but often are because their ability to 'enforce' is useful to others. When dealing with bullies, gather evidence. They can be persuasive to those that hold power and are very clever at making sure there are no witnesses to their 'crimes' who would dare speak up. Evidence is vital.

 

I hope this bully does not cause you further problems, but it is in the nature of bullies to express themselves in that way. I am sure she will find a way, if not with you then with others.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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I was back at work this week - our boss is away.

 

To explain, we have a Director for a boss, me (a sidekick to the Director - I report directly to him), a manager (who reports to the same director as me) of two teams (one made of 5 including a team leader and also one other who is in a different department but reports to that same manager. Sorry - it is confusing!!

 

The whole team got hauled in for a meeting - bonuses for all have been stopped (within her remit) funnily enough though, this time none of them have had a disciplinary threat.

 

Sad news today that her second in command (the manager is the manager of two sections) has had enough and went to see HR and has told them she is looking for another job. She told me in confidence and is really upset - she broke down in tears to HR.

This is a long term stayer - used to be close friends with the manager even but now avoids any personal interaction where possible. She is a feisty lady, tonnes of knowledge and experience and keeps that half of the department afloat. She corrects her manager's errors.

 

Tonight, after all this this week that manager has a lovely evening planned at her place - she is getting them all to bring food. They are all too scared not to go.

Oh, and this manager booked 3 days off this week too - our boss wasn't here to approve it so he will approve upon her return - and the team is snowed under.

 

For now I am changing the way I am meant to handle queries which could help (I hope!) and I will filter this out to the bigger team as and when a query comes up and I can.

 

I don't know whether to see HR myself and explain my side and what I know.

My boss knew of my complaint but I doubt he told HR - in fact I know he won't have.

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I'm confused here...

 

Do you consider this woman a bully because she told you not to do something for someone who lacked confidence?

 

What was the thing that the other person failed to do?

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I'm confused here...

 

Do you consider this woman a bully because she told you not to do something for someone who lacked confidence?

 

What was the thing that the other person failed to do?

 

I take it you didn't read the two posts in the other thread which I linked?

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I take it you didn't read the two posts in the other thread which I linked?

 

Oh, ok, got it.

 

My answer? Believe it or not, bullies are insecure. That's their mindset. They have to keep anyone/everyone down who may be a "threat" to their throne.

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My answer? Believe it or not, bullies are insecure. That's their mindset. They have to keep anyone/everyone down who may be a "threat" to their throne.

 

Well yes, obviously.

 

My curiosity comes from how a bully feels should her (in this case) antics fall flat and she doesn't get the expected reaction - which she didn't from me.

Also, whether she is going to make more attempts towards me.

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You don't seem the type, Gemma, to be bullied...not in the least.

 

I think it can happen to anyone to be honest = ot's just a case of whether you come into contact with a bully or not.

I experienced it back in my late 20's the first time - my Director and HR had already suspected something was going on by the time I spoke up and they were so great - they stayed late that night, moved mine and my boss' desks from a spot where we were unseen out and visible from their offices that very night and also changed some of the ways we did things. My boss didn't like it at all and resigned soon after.

Next time was my late 30's with a supervisor who bullied anyone and everyone. She eventually had a mental breakdown and they ended up making her redundant.

 

I have only this year (hopefully for good) ended a period of harassment from another colleague which I posted about in the rant section.

 

The last relationship I had, though I stood my ground every step of the way was an emotionally abusive one. In hindsight, standing my ground probably made it tougher because if one thing wasn't working he would go right ahead and try to demoralise me for something else. Much of the time the things he was coming out with were so damned ridiculous I thought he was joking! Lol!

 

I guess this is why I am now wondering whether this manager will try again to bully me.

Since the second I met her though I got a vibe from her and knew to steer clear so I only ever interact with her over work. I never ask how she is as that turns into a long tedious diatribe about her or her dog usually.

 

I found this article yesterday - it's her to a tee on the right hand side.

The differences between a manager and a bully

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