Something Got Me Thinking...

[johan]

Just trying to figure out whether I should do or say something or nothing or what...

 

In my experience, there is such an asymmetry in relationships... it can make you feel like you're on the edge of disaster at all times. The asymmetry I'm thinking of is in the power you have to make things happen one way or another...

You can't make someone love you. But you can very easily make them not love you.

You can't make someone happy in life. That's on them. But it's very easy to make them unhappy. That's on you.

It's not easy to gain the respect of someone, but it's pretty easy to lose it.

 

It's such a thin line between looking out for yourself, enforcing your boundaries, and just being selfish. Or worse being viewed as selfish when you aren't. Or maybe just trying to find some healthy space in a relationship without having to shun the other person.

 

Congratulations on finding your soulmate who you love being with and never fight with. How deep really is the respect you have for each other if all you know is you never offend each other? How do you know how thin is the barrier between your bliss and total breakdown?

[Haydn]

Me and my better half compliment each other, all unspoken.

We can sense when something is off and back off each other.

 

The key for me is feeling comfortable. Not so comfortable that we take each other for granted.

 

Also we are constantly trying to impress each other, just with small things.

 

I think what you a getting at and forgive me if i am wrong... Is when it becomes competitive. Then resentment can build and you are 5 minutes away from always trying to prove them wrong or vice versa.

 

I think being able to speak your mind is essential and to disagree is healthy.

 

It depends on how you feel about wanting to be right.

 

I am quite happy to be proved wrong as is she. We don`t gloat about it or harbour any resentment.

 

If you feel you are always on the edge of something then, yes you should say something and try to clear the air.

 

We argue as well. I don`t know anyone in a RS who dosen`t.

 

Fun in a RS is half the battle. A good laugh really works.

 

Space is crucial, i hate being in someones pocket. need to do my stuff as does she.

 

But everything you have described above, sums up the RS which brought me here. (In terms of feelings) I don`t need to fill you in.

 

I`ll come back to this thread but i have run out of time.

 

(Loads more i can say)

[Rejected Rosebud]

It sounds as if you're scared to speak openly for fear of destroying everything??

[Emilia]

Just trying to figure out whether I should do or say something or nothing or what...

 

In my experience, there is such an asymmetry in relationships... it can make you feel like you're on the edge of disaster at all times. The asymmetry I'm thinking of is in the power you have to make things happen one way or another...

You can't make someone love you. But you can very easily make them not love you.

You can't make someone happy in life. That's on them. But it's very easy to make them unhappy. That's on you.

It's not easy to gain the respect of someone, but it's pretty easy to lose it.

 

It's such a thin line between looking out for yourself, enforcing your boundaries, and just being selfish. Or worse being viewed as selfish when you aren't. Or maybe just trying to find some healthy space in a relationship without having to shun the other person.

 

Congratulations on finding your soulmate who you love being with and never fight with. How deep really is the respect you have for each other if all you know is you never offend each other? How do you know how thin is the barrier between your bliss and total breakdown?

Bloody hell Johan. Have you not been getting enough sleep or something? Will try to answer one by one.

 

'You can't make someone love you. But you can very easily make them not love you.' - I haven't really found that the case. It's true that you can't make someone love you but I don't think it's easy to lose their love when it's real. In my experience you have to go pretty far for sustainable amount of time for someone to lose their love for you - if it was real in the first place. They may not want to be with you but that doesn't mean they don't love you.

 

'You can't make someone happy in life. That's on them. But it's very easy to make them unhappy. That's on you.' - I think both are on them. That's not to say you shouldn't behave yourself (goes without say, not to abuse, etc) but a lot of the time people are unhappy because they can't change the way they think. They see something very different from what you see. It is completely and 100% subjective. It is on them.

 

'It's not easy to gain the respect of someone, but it's pretty easy to lose it.' - this is true.

 

'It's such a thin line between looking out for yourself, enforcing your boundaries, and just being selfish. Or worse being viewed as selfish when you aren't. Or maybe just trying to find some healthy space in a relationship without having to shun the other person.' - Enforcing your boundaries is selfish but then do you think the word 'selfish' has necessarily only negative connotations? Everyone is selfish in one way or another. What's wrong with that?

 

Same for shunning the other person - depends on what degree of shunning we are talking here - the idea is to be in a relationship with an independent person. Taking out some space reinforces independence. The biggest problem I see is people not doing that enough.

 

'Congratulations on finding your soulmate who you love being with and never fight with. How deep really is the respect you have for each other if all you know is you never offend each other? How do you know how thin is the barrier between your bliss and total breakdown?' - Conflict avoidance isn't healthy. I don't know anyone that never fights.

[spiderowl]

Being in a relationship is to be vulnerable

[smackie9]

it's all about sharing the same values, point of views, boundaries, and understanding each other. It's one big soup of things that makes you compatible.

[BetheButterfly]

You can't make someone love you.

 

True.

 

But you can very easily make them not love you.

 

You can make it harder for someone to love you. However, the choice to love is the person's.

 

That reminds me of David Wilkerson, who chose to love gangs even when gang members hated him:

 

 

 

You can't make someone happy in life. That's on them.

 

True.

 

But it's very easy to make them unhappy. That's on you.

 

People can choose to be happy though, even when a person is not being nice to them.

 

It's not easy to gain the respect of someone, but it's pretty easy to lose it.

 

True.

 

 

Congratulations on finding your soulmate who you love being with and never fight with.

 

Thanks, though I do fight with my soulmate sometimes. We have fights, but I really appreciate that my husband knows how to fight with love. He doesn't insult me. He doesn't tell me what to do or not do. He respects me and loves me, even though we disagree on some things. I think that's one reason why we're soulmates, because we can fight with love and without hate!

 

 

How deep really is the respect you have for each other if all you know is you never offend each other?

 

Both my husband and I have accidentally (not on purpose) offended each other. For example, I called him ignorant once and I didn't realize that he considered that a grave insult. (In Spanish, it's apparently more of an insult than in English.) For example, I can say I'm ignorant of football and I don't believe I have insulted myself lol. However, ignorant in Spanish is an insult, if I understand correctly.

 

Similarly, my husband offended me when he said a craft I made is fea (ugly). Oooh I was so mad!!!! I was pouting and going to throw it away but he stopped me and he said he was joking, that he didn't mean to offend me.

 

We used that opportunity to talk about how when I was young and wore glasses, some boys called me ugly and bullied me. He understood why the word is so offensive to me after we talked about it.

How do you know how thin is the barrier between your bliss and total breakdown?

 

Wow that's a tough question. I guess trust is a thick barrier. In this day and age, It's hard to truly trust, but one just decides to do it.

 

Have you found your soulmate?

[preraph]

Everyone fights sometimes, even with their one and only. If done correctly, it doesn't turn too nasty, but there are always going to be compromises in a marriage where neither part is happy with the outcome or, more usually, there's one who gets their way and leaves the other one resentful and then wonders what happened to frequent sex....

[johan]

I think I'm just not good at relationships. Unconsciously hacking away at trust and respect, stubbornly trying to control things in certain ways. Not drastically abusive or shamelessly betraying. More just not knowing when, where, or how to put myself first or her first or us first. How to claim space for myself. How to gently and lovingly nudge her, accept her for who she is, assert my own values in our shared life but knowing when I need to stop and compromise. When does challenging her and trying to look for better interactions cross over the line to not being supportive or even rejecting her? When does my anger in life stop being a healthy outlet for stress and become unhealthy, off-putting, and even sometimes scary? If I honestly don't know, am I broken?

 

Am I so bad? I feel like I'm crazy.

 

Am I just dealing with someone who also lacks the skills to know or say where her limits are? Maybe she needs to make it more clear how I'm affecting her and us. Maybe what we need is a nice big argument to sort all this out. Throw open the boxes we hide away. The resentments can build up so fast, if you don't know where to put them. They are cancer.

 

It's really hard to find value in life, even when all the pieces fit nicely together. I mean in the big picture, where we're all so small and life goes so fast. But then I get glimpses of how thin and worn the veil is separating contentment from quiet desperation. I tighten my grip the only thing good and special that ever happened to me. If I have to go back over to the other side of the veil, honestly why bother?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking I'm not good at relationships. Maybe I'm not good at life.

[Haydn]

I think I'm just not good at relationships. Unconsciously hacking away at trust and respect, stubbornly trying to control things in certain ways. Not drastically abusive or shamelessly betraying. More just not knowing when, where, or how to put myself first or her first or us first. How to claim space for myself. How to gently and lovingly nudge her, accept her for who she is, assert my own values in our shared life but knowing when I need to stop and compromise. When does challenging her and trying to look for better interactions cross over the line to not being supportive or even rejecting her? When does my anger in life stop being a healthy outlet for stress and become unhealthy, off-putting, and even sometimes scary? If I honestly don't know, am I broken?

 

Am I so bad? I feel like I'm crazy.

 

Am I just dealing with someone who also lacks the skills to know or say where her limits are? Maybe she needs to make it more clear how I'm affecting her and us. Maybe what we need is a nice big argument to sort all this out. Throw open the boxes we hide away. The resentments can build up so fast, if you don't know where to put them. They are cancer.

 

It's really hard to find value in life, even when all the pieces fit nicely together. I mean in the big picture, where we're all so small and life goes so fast. But then I get glimpses of how thin and worn the veil is separating contentment from quiet desperation. I tighten my grip the only thing good and special that ever happened to me. If I have to go back over to the other side of the veil, honestly why bother?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking I'm not good at relationships. Maybe I'm not good at life.

 

Bloody hell Johan.

 

Listen mate, when people think, things will go wrong, they usually do. You are overthinking each situation. Take things how they are with her. Try to not to push your values on to her. Have a respect for her values and vice versa but don`t let one or the other control the RS.

 

The big picture can wait, it`s how you want to feel now. You can`t worry about the rest of it if one part or more parts are working and you allow them to work and not get swallowed up with the rest of it.

 

What are you angry about in life? I `m sure you know. Whatever it is don`t push it on someone else. Sure lean on people, shift the burden. But don`t try to mold people to see your world view.

 

Of course we all can have rage inside about things we can`t change or don`t like but the person in your life is not about changing that, they listen.

 

Anyone who listens to my crap, makes it a little lighter. Maybe they cannot help but the fact they listened works.

 

Think about all the things you love about her and why you fell in love with her. Now see that if she changed for you, it would not be the same.

 

I really hope you can work this out. I am sure you can Johan.

[Emilia]

I think I'm just not good at relationships. Unconsciously hacking away at trust and respect, stubbornly trying to control things in certain ways. Not drastically abusive or shamelessly betraying. More just not knowing when, where, or how to put myself first or her first or us first. How to claim space for myself. How to gently and lovingly nudge her, accept her for who she is, assert my own values in our shared life but knowing when I need to stop and compromise. When does challenging her and trying to look for better interactions cross over the line to not being supportive or even rejecting her? When does my anger in life stop being a healthy outlet for stress and become unhealthy, off-putting, and even sometimes scary? If I honestly don't know, am I broken?

 

Am I so bad? I feel like I'm crazy.

 

Am I just dealing with someone who also lacks the skills to know or say where her limits are? Maybe she needs to make it more clear how I'm affecting her and us. Maybe what we need is a nice big argument to sort all this out. Throw open the boxes we hide away. The resentments can build up so fast, if you don't know where to put them. They are cancer.

 

It's really hard to find value in life, even when all the pieces fit nicely together. I mean in the big picture, where we're all so small and life goes so fast. But then I get glimpses of how thin and worn the veil is separating contentment from quiet desperation. I tighten my grip the only thing good and special that ever happened to me. If I have to go back over to the other side of the veil, honestly why bother?

 

Maybe I'm mistaken in thinking I'm not good at relationships. Maybe I'm not good at life.

I only know you from here Johan but to me you have always seem to be a well-put-together, sane, normal person with a very healthy slightly dark sense of humour.

 

Your posts are a little vague and I don't want to insult you with a very vague answer but it does sound to me like we are talking boundary issues?

 

Which are very possible to fix!

[Buddhist]

Most people have no idea what an actual relationship really is. It's a mirror for all our unprocessed stuff. So when our stuff comes to us via another person we shift blame and curse that person for failing to fulfil our expectations.

 

If people understood this they would stop 'falling in love' tomorrow and start going within instead.

[amaysngrace]

You're overthinking it. You make it a lot more complex than it needs to be.

 

Hold her hand, look her in the eyes, smile more often, bring her flowers sometimes, cook for her once in a while, laugh more, share a bottle of wine.....

 

and don't you live in Colorado? Do they have pot sampling like other places have wine tasting?

 

Hit up one of those.

[xxoo]

You've got to be honest with yourself before you can be honest with someone else. Anger is a useful emotion; it signals a problem. Problems--and anger--are easier to manage before they are allowed to grow.

 

You can't make someone happy in life. That's on them. But it's very easy to make them unhappy. That's on you.

 

Not entirely true. And it's not entirely on her if you are unhappy with her. Acceptance involves understanding that my happiness does not depend on my partner changing. When I am not happy, my partner can twist and turn himself into a pretzel bending to my needs and I still won't be happy. You can. Your partner can. When happy, I am more likely to simply enjoy my partner and overlook small annoyances. But we've had a lot of years to wear down the rough edges, and I do remember how much they irritated in the early years.

 

One thing that changed my life and my relationships was learning to approach disagreements from a standpoint of consensual problem solving. I've used this with toddlers and teenagers as well as with my husband, so I know how well it can work. The trick is to not go into disagreements with a preferred solution. We acknowledge the problem, and we acknowledge that each of us has already said no to the other's solutions. I said no to theirs and they said no to mine. Ok. Throw those out and start creatively thinking of new solutions that work for both of us. It is AMAZING how often this works out to have a solution that both of us prefer to our original (stubborn) preferred solution! Two heads really are better than one, and together we have better ideas. The trick is to let go of control and wanting to win, and trusting our partner to do the same.

 

That said, there are true deal breakers in life and relationships. I'm not going to consensually problem solve how to live with my spouse drunk driving, for example. And I'm not going to consensually problem solve both having and not having kids, for another. So it is essential to also understand and accept when there is a true deal breaker.

[Art_Critic]

I think I'm just not good at relationships.

 

I wouldn't say that any of us are good at relationships...

 

I think you need to start by cutting yourself some slack..

 

I'm not sure about the specifics but will post in generalities, like you I sometimes feel the same way with my wife where I don't think or feel that I'm getting what I thought I wanted from the relationship only to think I understand her and go about trying to enforce my will on my wife only to have it backfire..

 

I've been married about 9 years and 5 or 6 of those I feel like we are operating as 2 ships passing in the night, yes we are raising a child and doing a damn fine job but can't at times but help feel like I'm not getting what I thought I was supposed to be getting from the marriage.

 

I start discussions and occasionally an argument but the air never gets cleared, my wife isn't like me in the fact that I start a bunch of stuff and want to get it resolved up and because she doesn't feel the same way I do it never gets resolved.

 

I recently started reading a book called "attached" trying to figure out if what I feel at times is nothing or if we need to figure out something more basic,

 

I'm Anxious and my wife is Advoidant..

I haven't gotten deep enough in the book to know anything but kind think maybe you might benefit from something similar...

 

I also think my wife and I are of different Love Languages and that is much of what I sense is happening with me, maybe you as well...

 

No answers from me, just some comments about my life...

 

Oh.. and since I rarely talk about my marriage on LS and am pretty private in general this is just between you and me

Edited May 31, 2016 by Art_Critic

[johan]

You are overthinking each situation.

 

You're overthinking it. You make it a lot more complex than it needs to be.

 

I think you need to start by cutting yourself some slack..

 

It seems like what you all are saying is that I'm overthinking it. If that's really what you're saying, then I agree on the one hand. On the other I kind of have to really think about things sometimes in order to get a better perspective. It helps me anyway, if I know the plan I settle on is more than half baked.

 

We talked this morning and I told her all the things I thought were important to talk about. We didn't fight. She agreed and talked to me. It all came out, and it was legitimate, and it was a nice weight to get off my shoulders. She told me about things that bug her, and I think we both appreciated being listened to. Maybe we're a bit closer now, having the air between us cleared and a little more trust built up.

 

Oh.. and since I rarely talk about my marriage on LS and am pretty private in general this is just between you and me

 

Ditto, Art. What good would it do either one of us to have the world knowing this stuff. I'm happy to keep a lid on it.

[johan]

You're overthinking it. You make it a lot more complex than it needs to be.

 

Hold her hand, look her in the eyes, smile more often, bring her flowers sometimes, cook for her once in a while, laugh more, share a bottle of wine.....

 

and don't you live in Colorado? Do they have pot sampling like other places have wine tasting?

 

Hit up one of those.

 

That's a great idea, actually. A pot sampling is a great place to connect. If we pick up a pizza on the way and listen to Pink Floyd, I think we'll forget all about it.

[xxoo]

Maybe we're a bit closer now, having the air between us cleared and a little more trust built up.

 

That's a great observation. Healthy confrontation takes and builds trust. It's a sign of trust, and avoiding confrontation is a sign of distrust.

 

A counselor once told me that the difficult conversations are the important ones. They are the ones that teach us and can draw us closer. I know that it can be hard to open up and be vulnerable, but the resulting closeness is its own reward (as well as the improved relationship).

 

Good job!

[Art_Critic]

We talked this morning and I told her all the things I thought were important to talk about. We didn't fight. She agreed and talked to me. It all came out, and it was legitimate, and it was a nice weight to get off my shoulders. She told me about things that bug her, and I think we both appreciated being listened to. Maybe we're a bit closer now, having the air between us cleared and a little more trust built up.

 

Great... this is a good thing.. I know you were really looking for her to listen to you and that is good.. with all that make sure when you listened to her that those things sunk in some and you are ready to act, compromise or let go of the issue that caused her concern.. that is how the trust that was built stays that way.

 

One of my struggles is just that..

 

and thanks for keeping the lid on it

Edited June 1, 2016 by Art_Critic

[whichwayisup]

It seems like what you all are saying is that I'm overthinking it. If that's really what you're saying, then I agree on the one hand. On the other I kind of have to really think about things sometimes in order to get a better perspective. It helps me anyway, if I know the plan I settle on is more than half baked.

Have you ever made a journal and just written (or typed) out your thoughts and worries? Something I learned a long time ago and it helped me not over think stuff as much. Seeing it on paper and pen can help put things in perspective quicker.

 

We talked this morning and I told her all the things I thought were important to talk about. We didn't fight. She agreed and talked to me. It all came out, and it was legitimate, and it was a nice weight to get off my shoulders. She told me about things that bug her, and I think we both appreciated being listened to. Maybe we're a bit closer now, having the air between us cleared and a little more trust built up.

Build upon this! It's a great step forward for you two and the honesty shared without fear of being judged or worrying about reaction (being pissed or upset, hurt feelings etc).