Men and Emotional Vulnerability

[Almond_Joy]

Hi everyone,

 

I'm interested in hearing guys' perspective on this especially.

 

Do you think that the emerging culture of men being more emotionally open is good or bad?

 

I got into an argument with someone online about this. Their position was that men expressing doubt or fear or worry is a sign of weakness and is why men aren't as ambitious and dependable overall as they were in earlier generations.

 

I think that allowing men to talk openly about their emotional experiences and not be thought less of for it, allows them to feel more loved and appreciated, which is good for people in general. And when you feel appreciated you do more anyway. There are plenty of men in this generation that have done great things and express gratitude for the emotional support of their partner.

 

Thoughts?

Edited March 16, 2016 by Almond_Joy

[dichotomy]

I think being emotionally vulnerable is something men have always had (some men) but its whether whether they suppress it - or share it - and who they share it with is what matters.

 

Stereotypical this was with the man's bartender only, or their closest buddy.

 

I don't think being open all the time with just anyone and everyone is a good thing for men - or for that matter women.

 

It may also NOT be advisable in certain romantic relationships -at least not completely - which is where I think you may have been going with this.

[thecrucible]

I like men to be sensitive and to feel emotions but I also want to feel like they can be my rock in the storm. I don't want to feel like they are so emotionally vulnerable that I have to be the strong one in a relationship. I want to feel I can depend on them.

 

I don't think this is really a gender thing but I don't like a guy to open up too quickly into dating as then I'll feel like he's making me his therapist. I'd rather get to know his emotional side slowly over time.

[Woggle]

For the most part good but we have to be careful of those who will use it as a weapon against us.

[Gloria25]

My issue with the current trend is that there's a lack of respect for the differences in the sexes.

 

Yes, men have feelings, vulnerabilities and all that...but they do not handle, express, and or feel them like women do.

 

We women cry to our gfs, we wanna talk, vent, etc. Men may shoot hoops, have a beer and/or sit through a plan on how to address it.

 

We live in a very "feminized" society where anything male is deemed barbaric, ADD. You have schools and parents trying to put Ritalin on boys when boys are just being "boys". They smash, jump, kick and are high energy..they don't sit quietly like women. Sure, there are some exceptions, but they aren't the rule...

 

So, if my man is going through something, I'm gonna run him a bath, massage him, give him a beer, hug him and let him know to chill, relax, I got his back and that I'm confident in him finding a solution...and let me know "how" I can help if he needs me...I'm not gonna pull out Kleenexes and demand he hug, cries, and bears his soul to me.

 

Men need their women to be like their energy source - not crying buddy. You support him and build him up and he'll rise to the occasion. You don't try to turn him into your girlfriend.

[Under The Radar]

In my time on LoveShack there has not been a more polarizing topic amongst the men then this issue. I find the idea that men should NEVER disclose their fears, anxieties, vulnerabilities, failures or weakness ...... or they are not men ...... to be patently absurd. Last I checked my penis and testicles were in tact, functional, and doing extremely well ...... that makes me a man ...... of that I'm certain.

 

Yet, I carry within myself many traits that are historically and sociologically considered feminine. I am a highly sensitive person ...... an empath. My emotional intelligence is much higher than my IQ and my intellectual quotient is not poor. My university education was in Social Work and Psychology. However, I make my living as a personal trainer while incorporating my knowledge of mental health into the fitness curriculum of the people I meet with. I am successful because my character traits are well balanced. I know when to be vulnerable and when to be tough.

 

The generalization that men are so black and white in their dispositions is, for many people of my gender, far off base. Sure I see men who are always stoic, rarely communicative about their emotions, and project an aura of iron ...... as if they are an impenetrable wall of strength ...... but that does not define manhood.

 

The strongest and most dependable people I've ever met had balance to their personality. They were capable of being hard AND soft. They were able to exhibit strong emotions while demonstrating strength. In fact I'd argue it REQUIRES strength to showcase ones vulnerabilities. That process humanizes us and in many cases allows us to connect with people on a much deeper level.

 

I possess these qualities and have been rewarded for them more times than not. I have developed wonderful relationships with people of all different races, religions, and socioeconomic backgrounds BECAUSE of my sensitivity ...... my empathy.

 

I do think it is important not to share yourself with everyone. We do have to protect ourselves and allow the process to evolve organically with the RIGHT people. Not everyone is going to be your friend, or date you, or treat you with dignity and respect. You move on from those people and find the ones who are worthy of your time, energy, and emotions.

 

How many soon to be divorces, actual divorces, and breakups do we see because people cannot share their true feelings in a palpable way with their partner? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone ...... as a friend or lover ...... who doesn't share their emotions or allow me to reciprocate.

 

So to answer your question OP, I don't find men allowing themselves to be emotionally open a bad thing. I see it as an attractive quality in someone of any age or gender ...... I see it as a strength.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Training Revelations

[dichotomy]

As a man I do disclose my vulnerabilities, sensitivities, worries, fears, tears, vulnerabilities, etc.. occasionally/partly with my brother, occasionally/partly here on LS, but mostly and fully with my female therapist. She has been wonderfully compassionate and empathetic in helping me work though so many things - she also could help me be stronger with some tough advice.

 

I know many here will find this sad, sexist, or whatever, and will disagree - but I keep a number (not all of course) of my emotional vulnerabilities away from my wife, and if I was ever single again - I would follow this same approach with my new gal. I am not saying hiding it all, or being some tough insensitive partner - just saying that from a romantic/sexual relationship I don't think it works to bear it all to a woman your romantically involved with. Women like strong stable secure men...in their beds.

Edited March 17, 2016 by dichotomy

[thefooloftheyear]

I tend to be stoic and never really show much ..I grew up around men(father and uncles, etc) who were always rocks and would probably belittle the hell out of a guy that was emotional...It just wasnt something you did..

 

I do think I have a complex emotional personality...But its something I dont really share..

 

And while some things have changed, I still think many women look down on emotional men...Dont respect them as much...Its even cultural...In my culture, its frowned upon...The women are very emotionally strong, so a guy that shows any weakness is gonna be shown the door...

 

TFY

[Almond_Joy]

In my time on LoveShack there has not been a more polarizing topic amongst the men then this issue. I find the idea that men should NEVER disclose their fears, anxieties, vulnerabilities, failures or weakness ...... or they are not men ...... to be patently absurd. Last I checked my penis and testicles were in tact, functional, and doing extremely well ...... that makes me a man ...... of that I'm certain.

 

Yet, I carry within myself many traits that are historically and sociologically considered feminine. I am a highly sensitive person ...... an empath. My emotional intelligence is much higher than my IQ and my intellectual quotient is not poor. My university education was in Social Work and Psychology. However, I make my living as a personal trainer while incorporating my knowledge of mental health into the fitness curriculum of the people I meet with. I am successful because my character traits are well balanced. I know when to be vulnerable and when to be tough.

 

The generalization that men are so black and white in their dispositions is, for many people of my gender, far off base. Sure I see men who are always stoic, rarely communicative about their emotions, and project an aura of iron ...... as if they are an impenetrable wall of strength ...... but that does not define manhood.

 

The strongest and most dependable people I've ever met had balance to their personality. They were capable of being hard AND soft. They were able to exhibit strong emotions while demonstrating strength. In fact I'd argue it REQUIRES strength to showcase ones vulnerabilities. That process humanizes us and in many cases allows us to connect with people on a much deeper level.

 

I possess these qualities and have been rewarded for them more times than not. I have developed wonderful relationships with people of all different races, religions, and socioeconomic backgrounds BECAUSE of my sensitivity ...... my empathy.

 

I do think it is important not to share yourself with everyone. We do have to protect ourselves and allow the process to evolve organically with the RIGHT people. Not everyone is going to be your friend, or date you, or treat you with dignity and respect. You move on from those people and find the ones who are worthy of your time, energy, and emotions.

 

How many soon to be divorces, actual divorces, and breakups do we see because people cannot share their true feelings in a palpable way with their partner? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with someone ...... as a friend or lover ...... who doesn't share their emotions or allow me to reciprocate.

 

So to answer your question OP, I don't find men allowing themselves to be emotionally open a bad thing. I see it as an attractive quality in someone of any age or gender ...... I see it as a strength.

 

 

This has been my experience, and how I operate and approach other people. I do attribute my success in relationships of all kinds to this - knowing most of the time how to balance. I have very VERY few bad relationships with people and can usually communicate whatever needs to be said without being misunderstood or offending anyone.

[Almond_Joy]

Thanks for the responses.

 

I agree, discretion is definitely needed when deciding who to open up to, if you open up. I usually decide based on the other person's capability to reciprocate or provide the emotional response I need, in addition to whether I can trust them not to be emotionally manipulative.

 

My bf, like most men, was raised with and by people, men and women, who are rarely emotionally expressive.

 

I had no male presences in my life growing up, so it's really been a learning experience in this arena to me for engaging with men.

[mcjordan]

I tend to be stoic and never really show much ..I grew up around men(father and uncles, etc) who were always rocks and would probably belittle the hell out of a guy that was emotional...It just wasnt something you did..

 

I do think I have a complex emotional personality...But its something I dont really share..

 

And while some things have changed, I still think many women look down on emotional men...Dont respect them as much...Its even cultural...In my culture, its frowned upon...The women are very emotionally strong, so a guy that shows any weakness is gonna be shown the door...

 

TFY

 

This is interesting.

 

Okay, I'm not a man so I apologize.

 

My view of this has evolved. In my college/early 20's years, I was all into the "sensitive male" thing. You know, he could cry, he could emote, he might be somewhat like the brooding Bronte hero.

 

Then I married one of those. Emoting became wallowing. I was responsible for being his prop...all. the. time. Expressed uncertainty became helplessness. Crying became a weapon (yeah, just like women do). What seemed all literary and poetic and attractive when I was 22 became infinitely annoying at 40....infinitely.

 

I think a man should be able to express himself. I think his woman should support him when he has doubts, fears, or grief. I think a man who cries over the loss of his mom or his beloved pet of 15 years should be held by his woman. No problem.

 

BUT I think we did an entire generation of men a huge disservice when we tried to turn them into women. Because that is kind of what we did. Now that I approach 50, I would much rather have a stoic man who may not say ILY every day but who I know is solid than a man whose emotions I have to manage and who becomes a quivering, indecisive puddle in the floor. BTDT

[Phoenician]

My issue with the current trend is that there's a lack of respect for the differences in the sexes.

 

Yes, men have feelings, vulnerabilities and all that...but they do not handle, express, and or feel them like women do.

 

We women cry to our gfs, we wanna talk, vent, etc. Men may shoot hoops, have a beer and/or sit through a plan on how to address it.

 

We live in a very "feminized" society where anything male is deemed barbaric, ADD. You have schools and parents trying to put Ritalin on boys when boys are just being "boys". They smash, jump, kick and are high energy..they don't sit quietly like women. Sure, there are some exceptions, but they aren't the rule...

 

So, if my man is going through something, I'm gonna run him a bath, massage him, give him a beer, hug him and let him know to chill, relax, I got his back and that I'm confident in him finding a solution...and let me know "how" I can help if he needs me...I'm not gonna pull out Kleenexes and demand he hug, cries, and bears his soul to me.

 

Men need their women to be like their energy source - not crying buddy. You support him and build him up and he'll rise to the occasion. You don't try to turn him into your girlfriend.

 

Gloria ,

 

do you marry me

[GoodOnPaper]

I know many here will find this sad, sexist, or whatever, and will disagree - but I keep a number (not all of course) of my emotional vulnerabilities away from my wife, and if I was ever single again - I would follow this same approach with my new gal. I am not saying hiding it all, or being some tough insensitive partner - just saying that from a romantic/sexual relationship I don't think it works to bear it all to a woman your romantically involved with. Women like strong stable secure men...in their beds.

 

I entirely agree with your viewpoint. If you are a man who is naturally sensitive, this whole ballpark is a minefield, even if you are with a committed partner. Being able to feel 100% at ease seems like a pipe dream because at an instinctive level, it is so easy to associate sensitivity in a man with weakness. Ironically, the only time sensitivity seems to be viewed as a positive is for those men who establish that they have some sort of gruff, insensitive, alpha-like exterior - then when they open up to a loved one, it's endearing.

[GunslingerRoland]

 

I got into an argument with someone online about this. Their position was that men expressing doubt or fear or worry is a sign of weakness and is why men aren't as ambitious and dependable overall as they were in earlier generations.

 

First I'd question the whole premise that men aren't as ambitious or dependable as they used to be. I'm not sure what the measure is for those things. A lot more men finish post secondary school then used to. Is that a sign of ambition? Don't confuse the changing economics of the world, to be a failure on the part of men.

 

 

I think a lot of people are hard on the young generation particularly the men for having less economic independence but a lot of that, is soaring housing prices, combined with stagnant salaries.

[Almond_Joy]

This is interesting.

 

Okay, I'm not a man so I apologize.

 

My view of this has evolved. In my college/early 20's years, I was all into the "sensitive male" thing. You know, he could cry, he could emote, he might be somewhat like the brooding Bronte hero.

 

Then I married one of those. Emoting became wallowing. I was responsible for being his prop...all. the. time. Expressed uncertainty became helplessness. Crying became a weapon (yeah, just like women do). What seemed all literary and poetic and attractive when I was 22 became infinitely annoying at 40....infinitely.

 

I think a man should be able to express himself. I think his woman should support him when he has doubts, fears, or grief. I think a man who cries over the loss of his mom or his beloved pet of 15 years should be held by his woman. No problem.

 

BUT I think we did an entire generation of men a huge disservice when we tried to turn them into women. Because that is kind of what we did. Now that I approach 50, I would much rather have a stoic man who may not say ILY every day but who I know is solid than a man whose emotions I have to manage and who becomes a quivering, indecisive puddle in the floor. BTDT

 

 

What I'm hearing/understanding from people who are not in favor of emotional men is not so much that they're emotional, but that the men usually don't know how to manage their emotions once they give voice to them.

 

I have seen and get what Gloria is saying. If a man feels strongly about something, they will immediately try to fix it, or do something with their hands/mind. They don't verbally state "I'm angry/hurt/confused/whatever."

 

And it seems that if a man is pushed to voice their feelings vs handling them non-verbally, that's when they get stuck in that state of acknowledgement and flounder. So most of the time, again in my experience, it's better not to push for verbalization of feelings, but rather just be loving and supportive.

 

The only time I take issue about this though, is that if I'm doing something that makes you angry or hurts you, and you don't tell me that.....that bugs me. I'm not going to know - I cannot know - unless you tell me. If you are angry or hurt and you go play basketball or hang out with a friend, I don't know that you're doing that activity because you're trying to manage an emotional response. I see you going to hang out/do something. It's a delicate balance. Sometimes if something's been bothering my bf, he'll talk to me about it a few days later voluntarily. I stopped pushing for a play by play of what he's feeling right away, because I'd always get the response "I don't know."

[mcjordan]

The only time I take issue about this though, is that if I'm doing something that makes you angry or hurts you, and you don't tell me that.....that bugs me. I'm not going to know - I cannot know - unless you tell me.

 

This is an excellent point for both genders.

[Tread Carefully]

So if a guy says this, does that mean he's dealing with some emotional stuff on his own that he's trying to handle and I should just leave him alone? I'm confused trying to figure out what he's means or is trying to say. What do you think?

 

 

"I am sorry i have disappeared, have been sinking deep into myself thinking about where things are, and where they should be, etc. I don't do well outside of myself, and find

myself further isolating from others."

[jen1447]

Do you think that the emerging culture of men being more emotionally open is good or bad?

 

That's actually a really complicated question. First of all I'm not sure just how emerged it really is yet - men still seem to fight outward shows of emotion a lot of the time.

 

As to good or bad, that depends on for who, and how much, and when. For humanity overall I suppose it's good, just bc from a psychological standpoint it can't be healthy to run around w/repressed emotions all your life, and it can't be good to have a world full of men doing that. Probably good for women in general too bc it might bring about more familial accountability on the part of men.

 

For men I'm not so sure, at least in the short term ....a lot of guys will still catch hell socially for wearing their emotions on their sleeves. And yet probably even more will suffer profoundly by suppressing them. I've seen more guys end up emotional wrecks from breakup trauma than women, and I expect that's not bc they're more vulnerable ultimately but just bc to a large extent still they're not expected to show it and aren't socially 'allowed' to feel it. So it stays a sort of internal suffering.

 

I'm not convinced the gender roles thing is so much of an issue anymore. 'Balls' are equally distributed between the sexes now, so guys don't have to carry that burden alone.

[SammySammy]

The only reason it appears women have as much "balls" as men is because men have been emasculated and are effeminate.

 

All of this whining, crying, weeping and getting "depressed" over setbacks in life is bad. Bad for men. Bad for women. Bad for families. Bad for society in general.

 

Masculinity and femininity are not the same thing. They should not be the same thing. While they are both equally valuable, we cannot say there is no longer any need for a distinction between masculinity and femininity.

 

Yin and yang, they work together. They compliment each other. They need each other to make a successful whole.

 

Even in homosexual relationships - male and female - one usually plays a masculine role while the other is feminine.

 

This sensitive man movement has been going on in America for several decades. I think it is one of the reasons the American divorce rate is approaching 60%. Because, though women say they want a sensitive man, instinctively they don't. That's why we have men on here crying about being a nice guy and the woman he wanted chose a jerk. Women are not out there looking for jerks. They want a MAN. They want a man to be a man without her having to tell him what that is. The closest thing they are finding out there are jerks.

 

And, for most women, they don't think a woman who claims to have "balls" is the same as a man. They are not interchangeable. NOT the same thing.

Edited March 17, 2016 by MidKnightDreams

[blackcat777]

I am profoundly touched whenever my boyfriend shares his intense emotions with me privately... because I know he RARELY ever expresses himself, even when he should (in terms of healthy communication).

 

But never once have his feelings about a situation thwarted his resolve to get up and deal with whatever was ailing him. He never stops his life just because something upsets him, he'll power through. At the end of the day, he ALWAYS takes action.

 

He's also always mortified after he lets loose around me and gets scared I'll think he's a pussy. It always makes me laugh and I have never once ever thought about it, because I know he'll still do whatever needs to be done... and handle it like a man.

 

Men identify more with their actions; women identify more with emotions.

 

The problem is not allowing men to have emotions (men commit suicide something like 4x more than women...). The issue of loss of attraction/emasculation/being left for a "bad boy" occurs when men identify with emotions more than action. It's okay to cry, I truly believe; it's not okay to stop DOING in exchange for crying.

 

And the only thing jerks have going for them is boundaries. Boundaries are sexy, jerk behavior is not.

 

There was another bit of wisdom I heard somewhere worth repeating: "Men need to do good to feel good; women need to feel good to do good."

 

It's really the same way a woman who is ALL do and NO feel... the dominating, I-don't-need-a-man-to-do-it-for-me, strong as nails business woman... has problems in dating. In society, women need to "do" now in order to survive; likewise, men might gain some psychological health from feeling.

 

But overthrowing evolution and biology is just silly. It's best to work with what we have and enhance it, rather than try to throw the script out the window completely.

 

Just like the body functions better when fed with a reasonable amount of foods that our ancestors ate, rather than modern/convenience/fast food three meals a day... our society would function well to be aware of the behaviors and instincts our ancestors honored, and why. Some of it may be obsolete. Sometimes we could improve. And some of it contains great wisdom...

[Miss Peach]

My issue with the current trend is that there's a lack of respect for the differences in the sexes.

 

This is something I've said a few times on LS. Both sexes are equal but they are different.

 

For example if a man and woman are doing ballroom dancing they both have a role they play to make up the dance. But they aren't doing the same exact thing. If they tried the dance would fall apart.

 

FWIW I spent many years dating emotionally unavailable men so I love it when a guy can trust me enough to be vulnerable with me but still a confident leader.

[Woggle]

It really is a blessing having a woman in your life who you feel safe showing your vulnerable side to. It feels like you can go home and breathe instead of being some emotionless robot all the time.

[thecrucible]

I entirely agree with your viewpoint. If you are a man who is naturally sensitive, this whole ballpark is a minefield, even if you are with a committed partner. Being able to feel 100% at ease seems like a pipe dream because at an instinctive level, it is so easy to associate sensitivity in a man with weakness. Ironically, the only time sensitivity seems to be viewed as a positive is for those men who establish that they have some sort of gruff, insensitive, alpha-like exterior - then when they open up to a loved one, it's endearing.

 

Yes I would hate to think that my point of view is severely gendered but my reply about men hiding some of their vulnerabilities was entirely honest. I'm used to being around stoic men and it does affect my perception slightly. That said I'd never chastise a man for seeing him reacting sensitively from time to time. I just wouldn't want it to be a regular habit of his to be extremely emotional. I feel hypocritical saying this as I am quite emotional myself but if I see that a man is excessively emotional, I feel like I'm bearing his emotions too and it just gets too much for me. I end up feeling that I'm not safe in the relationship and that I am carrying the burden.

[Mumbles]

For mine, I won't knowingly go down the road of sensitive new age guy (SNAG) again. My formative years were in the late seventies and eighties and I bought into all the bull**** that was prominent in westernised culture at the time (don't believe me? Look at almost any popular movie of this period, they will make you cringe)

 

Whilst its an interesting discussion point, ultimately, IME, woman don't want to be partnered with a girlfriend living inside a mans body.

 

I often ponder if this was the ultimate root cause of the failure of my first marriage. Of course nothing is ever so straightforward, but some actions and traits loom large. I, along with my wife at the time who was a similar age to me and therefore influenced by the same social conditioning that I was, essentially lived the 'dream' of that time.

 

I grew up with strong old style men as role models, however, I discarded all that for the SNAG model and, frankly, its bunkum.

 

My new wife wants a rock she can rely upon no matter what the world throws at us. Of course, she's not looking for my grandfather or great grandfather, but she wants a man who is identifiable as one. Likewise, I don't want to be bumping bare chests with my wife while we shout 'boohaa!' at a sporting match

 

I'm not a young man, perhaps my latent generational thinking is coming through now, but I find I 'fit' much better with a woman who doesn't want a different shaped girlfriend as her partner.

[loverboy69]

Great conversation!

 

My parents are elderly.

 

My father was a career military man growing up. He's never been a yeller but he comes across emotionless at times. I've watched him at his mom's (my grandma's) funeral and his two brothers (my uncle's) funerals and he never shed a tear. He just had a blank expressionless face. I remember trying to give my dad a hug at the last funeral when my uncle died but he just gave me that "bro pat," on the back and said everything was going to be fine.

 

My mom is the opposite. Very emotional. She cries when she's happy and sad no joke. Very sensitive.

 

Even though I'm the youngest boy in a family of 7 since I've been an adult I've always been the organizer during times of crisis, the mentor and the one my siblings call for advice. I'm the rock. Like my dad I don't show much outward emotion. It's not that I have no emotion it's just that I've learned to grieve in private.

 

The only person in the world who can bring me to instant tears is my mom. I can't be the brave emotionless hero around her. If I'm having a rough time the moment she hugs me my eyes instantly well up. Even in my 30's there is no touch like a mother's touch. I can't explain it.

 

If you were to meet my parents and judge them as individuals you might call them extreme or polar opposites. I look at them differently though. I see two personalities that when coupled together brought balance to my family. I'm appreciative of their differences as it's given me a more balanced world view and healthy outlook on life.

 

I do believe that feminism has played a part in shaping the way men act to some degree in the West. That said let's not forget that clearly defined gender roles still exist especially in non western countries.

 

As a gay male I struggled a bit in my 20's with the concept of gender roles in dating. I've always projected an air of masculinity because that's what I'm attracted to. My partner appears and acts very masculine to the public but in private he's very openly sensitive to me and I'm okay with that. He looks like the teddy bear between the two of us but I'm the one he holds on to when he's having a bad day.

 

I hope western society continues to support and embrace masculinity and femininity even as they evolve. It's when we learn to love what makes us different between the sexes that we find balance and equilibrium. We need people to be rocks as much as we need others to be a shoulder to cry on.

Edited March 18, 2016 by loverboy69