One for the guys but all thoughts welcome

[Saracena]

Hi everyone. Am new here and have been browsing the site and seen some of the excellent advice some of which has definitely got me thinking about my own relationship(s). So I'll definitely be sticking around!

 

 

So the the guys - I'd really some help with with understanding how you would feel if your current exclusive girlfriend (23 and a virgin) of 6 months is refusing to have sex (intercourse) with you in a relationship where physical intimacy had progressed to Base 2/3 from fairly early on. I'm really trying to understand the male perspective here in terms how it might affect self-esteem etc and how it would impact on the relationship in general.

 

 

In addition how likely are you to share your true feelings with her? How would you deal with it and could it mean the end for you? This is all in a genuine attempt to gain a fuller understanding of what it's like from the male POV so all comments, thoughts are very much appreciated.

 

 

Many thanks in advance, everyone!

[WhatYouWantToHear]

I can't give you my perspective because I wouldn't allow myself into a situation like this.

 

So let me tell you what I think as an outsider--I think the guy's an Ahole. As long as you were above board from the beginning and told him that sex was not happening until you were married (or whatever arbitrary deadline chicks set), then this is all on him for accepting your terms and continuing the relationship.

 

Don't give in to his pressure or guilt or whatever. As long as you didn't lie or lead him on, he chose to accept your terms and shouldn't try to externalize the issues he's now having on to you.

[Saracena]

Thanks very much for your reply. Just to clarify a few points. Firstly, I wasn't necessarily waiting until marriage, just until I was ready. I'm definitely not someone who wants to have sex in the early stages I wanted to see how relationship evolved, when the time was right. (As it happened things got far more physical than I would have liked in the beginning!) This is a nice, respectful guy who, despite making it clear he definitely wanted to go further, never at any point put me under any pressure whatsoever. However, I know he was disappointed. (He's 25 by the way)

 

 

Since some male friends ( not in his circle) have told they would have felt very hurt and rejected themselves, I'm now wondering if I underestimated the impact my holding out had on him. I realise of course males may interpret this in different ways, hence my OP.

[bachdude]

Welcome Saracena!

 

I'm not sure how the first poster can make any sort of judgment about anyone, given that you didn't even indicate if this is an actual scenario or a hypothetical, let alone about your actual boyfriend.

 

Anyway...

 

It would depend on the situation for me. I would be totally OK if the reason was that my girlfriend wanted to wait, as a matter of principle, until marriage.

 

If it was because she wasn't sure about me, or because she wasn't attracted to me, then yes, it would sting a bit.

 

Would I say anything? It depends on what sort of relationship I had with her. I feel, as perhaps other guys might, a certain pressure - maybe self imposed - to not let on when my S.O. does something that "hurts my feelings" for fear that I may appear too "sensitive". So, as I mentioned, it would depend how comfortable I felt with her. I only was with one women my whole life that I really felt comfortable showing my real self. Women who want an Alpha male/macho type I never do well with. Women like that don't want to know the sensitivities a guy might have. So I wouldn't say, and so they didn't know.

[salparadise]

Thanks very much for your reply. Just to clarify a few points. Firstly, I wasn't necessarily waiting until marriage, just until I was ready. I'm definitely not someone who wants to have sex in the early stages I wanted to see how relationship evolved, when the time was right. (As it happened things got far more physical than I would have liked in the beginning!) This is a nice, respectful guy who, despite making it clear he definitely wanted to go further, never at any point put me under any pressure whatsoever. However, I know he was disappointed. (He's 25 by the way)

 

 

Since some male friends ( not in his circle) have told they would have felt very hurt and rejected themselves, I'm now wondering if I underestimated the impact my holding out had on him. I realise of course males may interpret this in different ways, hence my OP.

 

 

I think it would be quite frustrating for most men. However, how your boyfriend feels is important and how most other men might feel is not. You're trying to get a read on your bf's feelings, or how reasonable they are based on what most men, or the men who respond on here have to say about it.

 

As long as we're talking about most men or most people, suffice it to say that most are sexually active in their teens, and by age 23 nearly all of them are (men and women). And I think it would be rare indeed to for a 25 year old man to be in a committed relationship for six months and not be having sex.

 

Sex is a physiological need. It's not an unrealistic expectation for adults who are dating. Or at least that's the way most of the world sees it. Now if you're a devout Catholic or something than perhaps that trumps what is expected based on societal norms. And whether he is also a practicing Catholic would of course be a consideration too.

 

I am a long way past 25, but I can tell you for certain that I would not stay around for six months regardless of the reason if I wasn't getting laid. Sex is a normal thing, not something aberrant.

 

You intimate that you have no particular reason other than not wanting to in the early stages or before you see how the relationship evolved. And now after six months you say he's a great guy, respectful and all... so what's the hesitation? Is six months still to early? Aren't you wanting it as bad as he is? How much longer are you thinking you (and he) should have to wait?

[Saracena]

Thank you SO much Backdude and Salparadise for your extremely helpful replies-really appreciated. You've given me a lot to think about in terms of things I already suspected and otherwise.

 

 

Since it's late in Europe now, unfortuately I have to go bed but will reply more extensively tomorrow. Again many thanks.

[craw]

Huh? If you're not ready, you're not ready.

 

It sounds like you're being pressured. I was with my first bf for two years before I decided to lose it to him.

 

Take as much time as you need. If he ends up cheating on you or breaking up with you. It's his loss. I hope not.

[Frank2thepoint]

It would be difficult for a young man such as your boyfriend to deal with not having sex. If there is physical intimacy in the relationship (kissing, touching, etc.), then sexual intercourse is just natural progression of the relationship. Not being able to share each other in that aspect, especially after six months, has a huge impact on self-esteem and the stability of the relationship. Not sure what your communication level is with your boyfriend, but I can guess it is not very good if you are posting the question here, rather than to you boyfriend. You two need to discuss this earnestly.

[bachdude]

Not being able to share each other in that aspect, especially after six months, has a huge impact on self-esteem and the stability of the relationship.

 

Not all guys will take it this hard. I think he needs to respect your decision and you need to communicate clearly the reasons you prefer to wait. You don't have to sleep with him because you are afraid it will have such a huge impact on his self esteem.

 

And I disagree that it is some huge physiological need. Women in my generation used to do this all the time. It wasn't so long ago that many or most women made guys wait until marriage, let alone 6 months. And guess what? Nobody died from it!

 

All of this stuff from guys about how it's going to crush self esteem and it's a physiological need sounds overblown to me

 

Bottom line: If he really cares about you, he will wait.

[popcornpuff]

It depends on the guy. Some men will be understanding that the woman wants to wait a while and take it slow, and others will simply move on.

 

I've dated a couple of girls who wanted to save sex until marriage. It didn't affect the way I felt toward them, and I didn't find it any harder of easier to share my feelings with them.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

Depending on her reason for staying a virgin, I'd take it as a challenge. If she wasn't staying a virgin for marriage, I'd do my best to have her share her virginity with me. I wouldn't force or manipulate her, but try to seduce her. Get her so turned on that she will lose control & let the animal inside her take over.

[road]

There is many ways to have orgasms without intercourse when dating.

 

 

Nothing wrong with wanting to wait even until married. Though the need to wait should be made clear near the beginning as the relationship moves past going to first base.

[Marc878]

Thanks very much for your reply. Just to clarify a few points. Firstly, I wasn't necessarily waiting until marriage, just until I was ready. I'm definitely not someone who wants to have sex in the early stages I wanted to see how relationship evolved, when the time was right. (As it happened things got far more physical than I would have liked in the beginning!) This is a nice, respectful guy who, despite making it clear he definitely wanted to go further, never at any point put me under any pressure whatsoever. However, I know he was disappointed. (He's 25 by the way)

 

 

Since some male friends ( not in his circle) have told they would have felt very hurt and rejected themselves, I'm now wondering if I underestimated the impact my holding out had on him. I realise of course males may interpret this in different ways, hence my OP.

 

If he's interested in a long term relationship and you're worth it then it won't matter. If he's not then you got your info that he's not what you're looking for.

[Saracena]

Depending on her reason for staying a virgin, I'd take it as a challenge. If she wasn't staying a virgin for marriage, I'd do my best to have her share her virginity with me. I wouldn't force or manipulate her, but try to seduce her. Get her so turned on that she will lose control & let the animal inside her take over.

 

 

Thanks again everyone SO much. All responses are truly appreciated! Sorry I haven't been back until now owing to work commitments. In addition just lost my earlier post so he goes again.

 

 

Ironically, there's little or no seduction required! All this guy has to do is kiss me and I'm weak at the knees ! Although I've not told him, he is one of the most gorgeous, attractive guys I've ever dated. (He, too admits to being very easily aroused) I feel very safe and comfortable with him but overwhelmed by my own feeling at the same time! He's honest and direct and I trust him in so far as I can after 6 months. He's the quiet, analytical, intelligent type (we're both graduates with me being recently qualified but in a different field) and while being quietly confident and assertive in some situations he can be nervous and 'sensitive' in others eg when he met some of my friends and family members or when he misunderstood something I said to mean I didn't want to see him again! I reckon in the wrong hands he could be easily hurt-sounds as if this has been the case with the only girl he's slept with. While he shares some things with me I think he bottles up others or pretends he's OK when he may not be. Come to think of it-we're both similar in terms of the sensitivity and shyness.

 

 

Thing is that apart from him telling me I was 'a beautiful girl' and he likes and loves being with me in the early stages, I've no idea how he truly feels about me! Perhaps this is what is holding me back? While I was introduced to his friends and welcomed into the group very early on as his new girlfriend, I've never met his mother with whom he lives with brothers and sister, whom I've met! However, I doubt she'd approve (Catholic) since he stays over with me 3 x nights per week!! I have to say I've left all the running and arrangemens to him (just started a new job) but he's always very reliable in terms of calling, turning up whenever he says he will.

 

 

I know he wanted a relationship in the beginning (so did I although I didn't plan it that way) which is why I was rather annoyed with myself for letting things get so physical so early-not like me at all! Worried he'd think badly of me. We've never had any 'conversations' as such and things have just chugged along. However, we have let the relationship slip into a rather 'comfortable routine' which has become rather predictable.

 

 

Gugs, I have to go back to work now but will post again later on!

[bachdude]

I'm thinking you may need to read between the lines with him to get an idea of how he feels about you. Given your description of his personality, he's probably not going to be very verbally affectionate. You'll have to look for more subtle signs and watch his behavior towards you.

[Saracena]

Thanks Bachdude, I think you're right and he can be quite shy/lacking in confidence at times as well. In spite of being very clever I love the fact he's such a humble person! Not sure what signs to look for though?

 

 

Now, I hope at this point I haven't truly blown it. I had hoped I'd be able to sort it out myself but to no avail, so far. Basically a few weeks ago (in bed) he brought up the fact that I never really want to touch him and leave all the work up to him! It was more than that though in that looking back I think he took it personally ie I didn't want to touch HIM. What he said is true though I felt if he'd be unhappy he'd have said so before now. (Come to think of it I was being rather selfish and lazy-though more out of lack of experience etc than anything else) I was tired and didn't say much as a response which I regret now . Next morning I noticed he was quieter than normal when he got up and left for work. (Of course I've only isolated this incident after the events below.)

 

 

At the weekend he didn't turn up on Friday when we usually go out. Totally out of character for him. I was a bit shocked but worried, thinking the worst. At the end of the week I called him (I know, I know-unaware of NC rules at the time!) He made some excuse about falling asleep, waking up and just going out locally with his brother. Promised to come over the following weekend but never showed up, either. On the next occasion when I called (I left it much longer this time) he told 'I didn't feel like it' (calling over) When I asked if he wanted to finish it he replied 'Not really'. I have to say I was a bit dumbfounded and although I remained calm, and monosyllabic, all this was like a bolt from the blue! I seem to remember he said something about 'hurting each other'. I *think* though I'm not sure, we agreed he'd have some time to decide what he wants. Incidentally I bumped into one of his friends the other day who laughingly asked what I had done to X since he was a 'bit down' in the pub the last night.

 

 

Not sure exactly how to proceed with this one given my suspicions of what all this is truly about. I think this incident triggered these latest events. I'm also mindful of his ex who he described as a 'bit of a maneater'.

 

 

Any though comments welcome

Edited September 25, 2015 by Saracena

[salparadise]

Basically a few weeks ago (in bed) he brought up the fact that I never really want to touch him and leave all the work up to him! It was more than that though in that looking back I think he took it personally ie I didn't want to touch HIM. What he said is true though I felt if he'd be unhappy he'd have said so before now. (Come to think of it I was being rather selfish and lazy-though more out of lack of experience etc than anything else) I was tired and didn't say much as a response which I regret now . Next morning I noticed he was quieter than normal when he got up and left for work.

 

You seem reticent even in how you choose words so I am going to use a more literal vocabulary.

 

When you said he commented that you left the work up to him, I take that to mean that you are passive, don't initiate sexual play, don't take control to make sure he gets a release (ejaculates). And when you say, "didn't want to touch HIM," do the capitals mean his penis or more literally him, i.e. this particular individual?

 

Please clarify- have you been an enthusiastic partner in the bedroom other than vaginal intercourse, or are you acting somewhat demure and disinterested? Do you express sexual desire and acceptance physically, and do you take the initiative to make sure he cums, or do you leave it to him to take care of himself (masturbation) after fooling around? I assume it must be one or the other; leaving him un-taken care of and physically frustrated seems out of the question.

 

So he seems to be distancing and you're still not sure how he feels because you assume that if he were dissatisfied he would've communicated it to you... even though you said previously that he's shy and not very communicative?

 

My guess is that he's nearing the end of his rope, so to speak. If he's not getting a clear message through sexual play and affectionate touching that you're into him sexually, then I believe it's understandable that having a beer with his brother would be equally appealing. At 25 years old, and having had some sexual experience with a previous girlfriend, he knows what he's missing.

 

And here's another consideration with respect to your continuing virginity... if this was due to religious beliefs, a very young age, medical issues, etc., then there would be a way for him to externalize it. But since there is no other reason beyond you not feeling it (at age 23) he's almost certainly internalizing... feeling invalidated as a man, a sexual being... and possibly extending to a much more personal interpretation.

 

He has been wise and respectful enough to not pressure you. He has done his due diligence in that he has been in a committed relationship for six months now, so he may be thinking that it's just not going anywhere-ever. Emotional and sexual frustration may have overtaken his enthusiasm.

 

How long has it been since you've seen him? Are you not talking in-between visits or every day or two?

 

I am not suggesting that you should lose your virginity to hold onto him; I think you should only make that decision when you are ready. But I also don't think that you should expect a normal, red-blooded 25 year old man (with prior sexual experience) to hang around indefinitely. The urge to merge is a powerful thing... for most people.

 

 

 

---------------

ps: I don't agree with the "if he loves you he will wait until you're ready" nonsense.

[devilish innocent]

I was a 23 year-old virgin when I got together with my husband. We also reached second/third base very quickly, then didn't have intercourse for longer than six months. This was fifteen years ago, so maybe the world has changed since then. But really one of the big differences I see in your situation is that the two of you don't seem to be communicating very well. The lack of sex was never an issue for us because we were open and honest about our feelings. We each knew where things stood with the other person, whereas you two don't seem to have that.

 

Maybe he lost interest a while back and that's why you couldn't talk about your feelings with each other. But maybe you weren't communicating or showing interest and that's what caused him to lose interest. It's like trying to figure out which came first, the chicken or the egg.

 

Anyway, it does sound like he might be ready to end things, and it may be too late. If he wants to continue the relationship, I really think you should focus on opening up the lines of communication. If you're unsure about what he wants or how he feels, ask him. If you have feelings for him, tell him verbally and show him by reaching out and touching him. Start having actual conversations rather than just responding with monosyllabic words. Good luck!

[Saracena]

Thank you Salparadise and Develish Innocence for your replies. Honestly this is all very useful in terms of helping me gain a perspective on things. I only have time to comment on a few points (will return later) but what both you said is spot on in terms of what I'm beginning to understand about my boyfriend and my relationship.

 

 

Firstly S-it was his penis he sensed I didn't want to touch and I've little doubt at this point, he is interpreting my reluctance to have full sex personally. (This sex thing is and has been like a dark cloud hanging over us for a while now) In addition, not being able to have sex is really bothering him. During the phone call (where he said he didn't feel like coming over ) he did actually say what you've suggested that 'It's not going anywhere!' and 'We're not good for each other'. Of course, retrospectively I should have asked him what he meant since I hadn't a clue what he was talking about, but for me it was like a bolt from the blue, so I was shocked and very hurt! (I've a feeling he's asking someone's advice with our situation given some of the 'profound' statements he's coming out with.)

 

 

And yes DI communication regarding feelings etc is awful-we're both fairly sensitive and I'm beginning to believe fear being rejected by the other. Incidentally, I've not noticed any waning of his interest.(I'm finding all of this very difficult and stressful-hard to be objective) However, I do love (I've told him this playfully once) my lovely, little boyfriend and want to salvage whatever I can, if I can, while I can. It's one thing if he just wants to finish it for other reasons but quite another if it's for the ones I suspect. However, I want to maintain my dignity in the process.

 

 

Before I had a chance to read these posts, I called round (his work) to drop off his iPad at reception, so was totally unprepared for meeting him, not to mention any talk about us! I nearly had second thoughts when I saw his car there but it was too late at this point. Anyway out he comes out of the building, much more 'friendly' and 'upbeat' than last time on the phone and asked if I'd come for a drink with them. What ensued was the most awkward (for me anyway) 15 mins ever where (although on our own away from co-workers) we enquired about his/my friends and anything we could think of. In the end, he mentioned something about having to mingle with colleagues and off I went! Although I felt awful, thankfully I did look hot!

 

 

These relationship problems are really draining me, ( I also have a demanding job) so any thoughts on how I should proceed are very welcome.

 

 

Thanks S

Edited September 29, 2015 by Saracena

[Ckme 'Lowodee]

I'll be brutally honest, It's not likely the person you lose your virginity to will be the one you spend the rest of your life with (It can happen, just not common). If you're desperate to keep it for the perfect guy you could be waiting a long time. (Not saying you should just throw it away either)

 

That said, if you're looking for a proper relationship then his reaction should tell you everything. Sex (virginity or not) is a big step in a relationship and he should respect your conditions on something so important. I waited over a year to have sex with my gf, if I hadn't been willing to wait I would have left her and if I'd kept bothering her about the issue she would have left me.

 

In the end it's all about how far you're prepared to go for them compared to how far they're prepared to go for you.

[GunslingerRoland]

I think for me 6 months is probably the point it might start to get to me a bit. I mean 6 months is typically the time when the honeymoon phase of the relationship is over and you start seeing the other person for who they are, and not just through the pure lovey dovey eyes. By the point you should know if you are in "real love" or not.

[Saracena]

I think for me 6 months is probably the point it might start to get to me a bit. I mean 6 months is typically the time when the honeymoon phase of the relationship is over and you start seeing the other person for who they are, and not just through the pure lovey dovey eyes. By the point you should know if you are in "real love" or not.

 

 

Thanks very much guys for your responses. All very helpful in terms of helping gain some perspective here. You mean 6 months is long enough to give me? Or know his own feelings about me?I'm concerned at this point he believes (after that trigger incident) my reason for holding off is because I'm not really into him/he's not the one/I'm just stringing him along etc which isn't the case at all!

[PinkInTheLimo]

I will be blunt here. Even though I do understand that fact that you want to take your time and wait before engaging in the full sexual act, if you do not want to touch him everywhere, including his genitals, his interest is indeed going to wane.

 

If you let yourself be touched but refuse to touch him, it's a one-way street and you are treating him like some kind of massage therapist.

The message you are giving to this guy is that sex will always be something that he will give to you but that you will not give to him. And one only needs to read the stories full of frustrations from some guys on this forum who have been married for 20 years and are still waiting for their wives to finally fully engage with zeal and enthousiasm in sex, to understand that no guy is waiting for that kind of sex life.

 

You are 23 years, you have a relationship that sounds like a serious one. Time for you to get laid. And yes, as someone said, it is unlikely that the first guy you have sex with will be the one you will end up with in life. But if you wait for that, you probably won't have sex EVER.

[Saracena]

Thanks very much for your response. Being blunt is perfectly fine-it's exactly what I need in order to gain some objectivity on my situation. I'm aware that all to often where relationships are concerned, partners can fail to recognize and acknowledge their own negative contributions when things go wrong and blame the other person, while very often wallowing in the hurt the break-up has caused them. I'm not saying for a minute I should have had sex with him, just that I've failed to see and appreciate things from his perspective. I should stress that until this incident, which triggered a definite shift in our relationship, he was always happy to wait until I was ready, never pressuring me.

 

It's been about five weeks since we've been together and I only hope it's not too late to get things back on track again. So it's up to me to get in touch? All suggestions/comments welcome. (I do believe him when he said he doesn't really want to end it, though)

 

I should add this guy is absolutely gorgeous and has always been very popular with the ladies! However, he's choosey and not one for casual sex. However, I do know some of the girls at work fancy him like mad!

 

Everyone's input has been incredibly helpful so sincere thanks again. Without it I wouldn't have gained the insight I have today. I only wish I could have imparted some of when I saw him last weekend. I'm sure he was wondering why I called at work!

Edited October 2, 2015 by Saracena

[salparadise]

It's been about five weeks since we've been together and I only hope it's not too late to get things back on track again. So it's up to me to get in touch? All suggestions/comments welcome. (I do believe him when he said he doesn't really want to end it, though)

 

Oh, five weeks... that's a pretty long time. I'd guess that his frustrations got the best of him and he's been working on detaching, maybe devaluing as well. People tend to devalue as a means of coping after breakups. Strange thing is that you're not even seeing it as a breakup... you seem to be characterizing it as a little tiff that you'd like to get past. But if he didn't make any effort to reengage after your overture, well, feels to me like he might be... gettin' laid.

 

This puts you in a particularly tough spot. I'm sure you don't want to give up your virginity in a desperate attempt to lure him back. Even if you've changed your mind and are considering having sex, you'd want it to be in the context of a good, functioning relationship that's heading somewhere. But he may not have any patience left at all, may not be willing to pursue for some number of additional months in hope that it would eventually get back on track and become the full relationship that failed to materialize before.

 

You could reach out to hime and see what he has to say, but be prepared to accept that it's too late to recover.