video re: borderline perosnality disorder

[truncated]

I was browsing on youtube, and found some videos on there that are just nuts. There are a man and a woman who spend hours going on about the evil of women with borderline personality disorder and how men are terribly put upon.

 

At first, I thought they made some good points, but the longer it went on, the more nutty they seemed.

 

( I can't get the link to work, but they are called " going mental" and have something to do with something called " shrink4men" )

 

Am I missing something here? The two go on about narcissists and BPD and how they are really self centered, yet they seem to enjoy nothing more than hearing themselves talk.

[truncated]

I was browsing on youtube, and found some videos on there that are just nuts. There are a man and a woman who spend hours going on about the evil of women with borderline personality disorder and how men are terribly put upon.

 

At first, I thought they made some good points, but the longer it went on, the more nutty they seemed.

 

( I can't get the link to work, but they are called " going mental" and have something to do with something called " shrink4men" )

 

Am I missing something here? The two go on about narcissists and BPD and how they are really self centered, yet they seem to enjoy nothing more than hearing themselves talk.

 

 

I just can't get past the part where they are making fun of people with BPD and referring to them as "assh@les".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdYoXKWc9aw

[Downtown]

I was browsing on youtube, and found some videos on there that are just nuts. There are a man and a woman who spend hours going on about the evil of women with borderline personality disorder and how men are terribly put upon.

Truncated, I share your disgust with the video's two speakers who are describing BPDers as "assh@les." One is Paul Elam, a men's rights activist who founded A Voice for Men but has no training in psychology I know of. The other speaker is Tara Palmatier, who claims on her website (Shrink4Men) that she has a PhD in psychology but neglects to say where that degree was earned. Like Shari Schreiber, Tara Palmatier describes herself at Shrink4Men as a "coach," not a therapist. This seems to indicate that she never satisfied the requirements for being a licensed therapist in any State.

 

I am aware of two websites claiming that Tara Palmatier is a fraud or, at the least, very misinformed. One is Demonstrating the Insanity of Dr. T. The other is a lengthy thread at Against Men's Rights.

[Radu]

Congrats on getting away from crazy [critically analyzing the movie instead of absorbing it all].

 

When you get out of crazy ... you move to another form of crazy, you don't get normal.

It's like the swing of a pendulum, with you eventually normalizing yourself, if you are a normal person.

Sounds like you normalized yourself.

 

I followed those links and i have some remarks, but i would like to start with how i found about both Elam and Dr. Tara.

I found first T [i'll use this abreviation as it's easier] because something seemed off about some of my past relationships. Her site was an introductory course into the crazy, and admittedly in my state at the time, believed that the problems shown there only affect women [or disproportionally women].

Elam's site i found through the links from the above mentioned blog, and i read the site as well ... though i found a good portion of the forum ... not that tasteful.

 

Eventually i drifted from their sites and ended up here ... with me ocasionally linking some stuff there and what not.

 

I see that SPLW is referenced in the first link as not approving of T's blog.

 

After being connected with them and the MRA, i can only say that :

- it's good that resources [basic ones] like T's blog are out there ... but i don't really like now how she goes so often for the diagnosis of a PD. If you read the comments section you will find many ppl adding info [men mostly] about past relationships and some of that stuff can only be in horror movies.

Overall i see it as good, but it could be significantly better by making the message more neutral [gender wise].

- Elam does a poor job of moderating his site.

It's a great site and i understand why he is trying to promote his message [he had a bad history with women ... a fact in reverse shared by many of the 50's feminist women], however when you fight an enemy like NOW, which has legions of dedicated zerg and is trying to preserve the status quo, you cannot leave yourself exposed to attacks.

You have to show a certain standard in the community you lead, whereby you want equality but without the senseless hatred driven by emotion from a recent breakup from a female abuser.

It's true that the feminist movement did not need to censor itself, because they were a group of too loud women [and honestly they can get away with more stuff than we do], but as a matter of comparison ... the equal rights movement had to.

There were many black women who refused to move to the back of the bus, but the one they chose had to be made a symbol by her virtue ... and that's what the MRA needs to do as well.

Add standards because the enemy will exploit this.

- i can't really blame T for not having the credentials, Phil doesn't have a license to practice [and hasn't had in a long time] but everyone in NOW still loves him and even invited him to speak before Congress when they re-enabled the VAWA act.

 

I really hope that the MRA builds a better organization because it is a shame, as men are in fact discriminated against in many subtle ways [even SLPC discriminates against MRA groups and men who don't toe the line].

 

As for us, the ppl ... we have to take everything with a grain a salt ... both in life and when it comes to this emotionally charged battleground.

Or move far away from the crazy.

 

PS: I share the opinion that BPD's are as*holes.

I know, not all of them are.

But for the purpose of my mental sanity and to protect my future self [to not get involved with them], i will label all of them together as as*holes, together with many other mental disorders.

It's much better for ... well, me.

Edited July 31, 2015 by Radu

[autumnnight]

Yeah....diagnosing and then judging other people has become a national passtime. It keeps us from having to take people who make us uncomfortable seriously.

 

It's funny, mental illness is ILLNESS. I don't see a lot of rants about how diabetics or people with high blood pressure or people with MS are horrible and unworthy of a relationship. Have you ever been around a diabetic with out of control sugar? They are at least as exhausting as a person with BPD.

 

Every time someone (especially a female) exhibits behavior another cannot understand, the BPD police come in with their alarms and radar. I find it offensive.

[elaine567]

Every time someone (especially a female) exhibits behavior another cannot understand, the BPD police come in with their alarms and radar. I find it offensive.

 

I do too.

Break ups are difficult for all involved, many people can act a bit "unhinged" during the failure of a relationship, but an actual diagnosis of BPD is a different kettle of fish.

 

She went on a bit of a rant - "Oh yes, BPD"

She seems very upset and is crying a lot - "Oh yes, definite BPD"

She is now cold and seems to hate me - "Oh yes, sounds like BPD"

She moved all her stuff out, went NC, and is now seeing someone else - "Oh yes, must have been BPD"

She said she loved me, and has now apparently changed her mind. - "Oh yes, BPD"

She could be moody at times - "Oh yes, a clear case of BPD"

 

I realise the need for the hurt to find a reason why their world was turned upside down and a diagnosis of mental illness in their partner also tends to absolve themselves from blame over a failed relationship, but the assumption by some that just about every female who dumps a man has BPD is I think just a step too far.

[truncated]

They also seem to love trotting out the term " narcissist" while talking about women.

A quick look to well researched statistics shows that this is far more prevalent in men than women.

 

I would find what they have to say a lot easier to take seriously if it was about people with and not just women with borderline personality disorder. There also seems to be an awful lot of third party diagnosed going on of people they have never met and are only hearing one side of the story, and anyone who disagrees with them is bpd themselves or somehow anti men or part of some sort of "gynocentered" conspiracy.

[Radu]

Yeah....diagnosing and then judging other people has become a national passtime. It keeps us from having to take people who make us uncomfortable seriously.

 

It's funny, mental illness is ILLNESS. I don't see a lot of rants about how diabetics or people with high blood pressure or people with MS are horrible and unworthy of a relationship. Have you ever been around a diabetic with out of control sugar? They are at least as exhausting as a person with BPD.

 

Every time someone (especially a female) exhibits behavior another cannot understand, the BPD police come in with their alarms and radar. I find it offensive.

 

I have a diabetic in my extended family an it's a shame to see the stuff she put her husband through [and continues to do so] because she cannot stop herself from eating the wrong stuff.

Teeth fallen out, eventually some limbs will be lost most likely ... horrible stuff.

It has completely put me off dating diabetics and in general ppl with a long term condition that do not take care of themselves.

 

Other than that, i completely agree with you.

[autumnnight]

I have a diabetic in my extended family an it's a shame to see the stuff she put her husband through [and continues to do so] because she cannot stop herself from eating the wrong stuff.

Teeth fallen out, eventually some limbs will be lost most likely ... horrible stuff.

It has completely put me off dating diabetics and in general ppl with a long term condition that do not take care of themselves.

 

Other than that, i completely agree with you.

 

That is actually a good point. A diabetic can be draining physically when they choose not to care for themselves. It is definitely a financial drain. And when their sugar is high and low it affects mood, behavior, rationality. Someone whose sugar suddenly drops can become violent.

[Radu]

No violence and no mood swings [none that i can notice] but generally an overall bad example.

Her sister also had some other issues, overall i could say it is selfish behaviour.

Her other sister ... also some other stuff there.

 

It's like in one way or another, each of them has married a man who is good looking and willing to put up with a ton of stuff, and turned completely bloody selfish around the age of 50, to the point that i am shocked their husbands are with them.

The guys are amazing, they take care of themselves, they pitch in more around the house, they compensate for them ... but there is this selfishness that is prevalent in that family for some reason.

 

Incidently, their husbands had abusive parents [to some extent].

I find this fascinating because i can see the track that their children are starting to take.

It is similar in some ways to that of their mothers.

---

 

elaine, i have not seen cases of that type ... but i agree that the abreviation is thrown around easily without adding stuff like 'spectrum disorder' and 'we all have it to some extent' and further information that shows it is just a general opinion.

 

On a sidenote, i had the misfortune of meeting a real nut [i suspect schizophrenic] to some extent 2yrs ago and it definitely was a good idea to steer clear of her ... funny thing was, she was qualified to dispense medicine and was known well in the medical profession. But she also believed that security agencies around Europe and the US wanted to harm her, and were impeding her progress in life. Also, her last major bf and one of the teachers in her old college were conspiring with said security services to stop her from graduating.

[elaine567]

But she also believed that security agencies around Europe and the US wanted to harm her, and were impeding her progress in life. Also, her last major bf and one of the teachers in her old college were conspiring with said security services to stop her from graduating.

 

Just because you are paranoid, it doesn't mean they are not out to get you.

Joseph Heller, Catch-22

[lana-banana]

I am so sick of "narcissistic personality disorder" (for men) and "histrionic/borderline personality disorder" (for women) used as some kind of Rosetta Stone for cruel or inexplicable behavior. Personality disorders are not like cancer. They aren't even like mood disorders. They are just groupings of symptoms and they're all so vague I'm pretty sure everyone could fall into those categories throughout their lives. Honestly, I understand why things like BPD and NPD were devised, but nowadays they seem to exist only for people to demonize their exes.

[autumnnight]

I am so sick of "narcissistic personality disorder" (for men) and "histrionic/borderline personality disorder" (for women) used as some kind of Rosetta Stone for cruel or inexplicable behavior. Personality disorders are not like cancer. They aren't even like mood disorders. They are just groupings of symptoms and they're all so vague I'm pretty sure everyone could fall into those categories throughout their lives. Honestly, I understand why things like BPD and NPD were devised, but nowadays they seem to exist only for people to demonize their exes.

 

I was thinking about this earlier today. If wasn't in response to mental disorders, but because I saw this meme explaining that "demisexual" means people who only want sex with someone they have an emotional bond with...really? We REALLY need a whole separate word for that?????

 

People are not 10,000 different cookie cutters. People are a continuum. I don't know what is at the root of all this "a label for every variance" stuff. Probably just so everyone can feel like a special snowflake or class that should be protected or something? I think some of our "disorders" are really just people being jerks and emotionally unintelligent, and someone thought it should have a "label" or diagnosis."

[Timshel]

That is actually a good point. A diabetic can be draining physically when they choose not to care for themselves. It is definitely a financial drain. And when their sugar is high and low it affects mood, behavior, rationality. Someone whose sugar suddenly drops can become violent.

 

Yes, one of my first cases was a diabetic who strangled the person in the hospital bed next to them with their breathing tubes...because they were snoring too loudly.

 

Police will often pull over a diabetic with low or high blood sugar for drunk driving. The symptoms are very similar. It is one of the reasons a diabetic should always have identifying information on their person.

 

Mental illness is nothing to self diagnose or to label a person with. The spectrum of potential diagnosis are vast and for dating purposes, a person needs to decide compatibility only.

 

Marriage requires more dedication but to the extent that a person is in a dysfunctional and irretrievable relationship, all of the hypothesis of mental ability/disability should be founded through counseling and licensed professionals.

[lana-banana]

I was thinking about this earlier today. If wasn't in response to mental disorders, but because I saw this meme explaining that "demisexual" means people who only want sex with someone they have an emotional bond with...really? We REALLY need a whole separate word for that?????

 

People are not 10,000 different cookie cutters. People are a continuum. I don't know what is at the root of all this "a label for every variance" stuff. Probably just so everyone can feel like a special snowflake or class that should be protected or something? I think some of our "disorders" are really just people being jerks and emotionally unintelligent, and someone thought it should have a "label" or diagnosis."

 

The personality disorder labels/diagnoses exist simply as shorthand for mental health professionals to better understand how their patients should be treated. They are NOT meant to be some kind of lifelong condition or permanent mental state. When people try to define themselves or their exes with these diagnoses they're essentially making excuses for their behavior. It's much easier to say "He was a narcissist and incapable of love" rather than "We weren't compatible and our relationship didn't work out". When the ex goes on to a new relationship the person is then forced to insist their ex isn't really capable of loving someone else. It's sad.

 

I can't even say anything about stuff like the "demisexual" label. That comes from tumblr, not licensed medical professionals, and it just blows my mind.

[autumnnight]

The personality disorder labels/diagnoses exist simply as shorthand for mental health professionals to better understand how their patients should be treated. They are NOT meant to be some kind of lifelong condition or permanent mental state. When people try to define themselves or their exes with these diagnoses they're essentially making excuses for their behavior. It's much easier to say "He was a narcissist and incapable of love" rather than "We weren't compatible and our relationship didn't work out". When the ex goes on to a new relationship the person is then forced to insist their ex isn't really capable of loving someone else. It's sad.

 

I can't even say anything about stuff like the "demisexual" label. That comes from tumblr, not licensed medical professionals, and it just blows my mind.

 

That is something I did not know - that these disorders were not meant meant to be permanent labels. But it makes sense. Sense they all have to do with behavior, when the behavior is changed, then there is not a need for the label anymore. I think sometimes the disordered use the label to say "see, I can't help it," and their loved ones use it to say, "see, I am blameless."

 

Yeah...the tumblr stuff is almost amusing. Though we had some diversity training at my work recently and we had to learn THIRTY-THREE variations of gender - THIRTY-THREE.

 

But that is a whole other thread.

[aloneinaz]

While I agree that some people are too quick to "label" a #hit head ex with a mental issue, there are times when people have had the unfortunate experience with one. Some people come out of terrible relationships w/an abusive partner and are left in shock, feeling like they got ran over by a bus. I was one and I'll tell you, it was like I suffered from PTSD from it. I'd never heard of BPD before I saw a psychologist to help ME understand why I stayed in that abusive relationship.

 

 

I shared in detail w/her all the issues, break ups, her melt downs, and emails between us. My main concern was "what is wrong with ME". After several sessions, she handed me a sheet that showed the big list of symptoms of what a person with BPD has. That's when I put it all together and said "OMG, I bet she has this".. Did it change anything? Nope. But it made me feel a lot better about not feeling crazy. We all have our doubts and ask ourselves "what am I doing to cause her to act this way".. In many cases, we are not doing anything.

 

 

As a male in middle age, I have dated many, many woman along with having had many relationships. Most people know when someone is simply not hitting on all cylinders. These sites can help others who have come out of a toxic, dysfunctional relationship with people who are a bit crazy, understand things more. The can see these different personality disorders and then do their own research to get better understandings of what they delt with.

 

 

There's a MAJOR difference between a selfish, a-hole, jerk, $itch and someone suffering from one of the personality disorders. Let's face it, we all have our baggage at ages above 30. My goal has been to find the one with the smallest suit case!

Edited July 31, 2015 by aloneinaz

[Quiet Storm]

My sister has BPD and I suspect some of my cousins are BPD. It's not just drama. Here are the things that make me suspect BPD- suicide attempts & threats + eating disorders/cutting/addiction + past sexual abuse + fear of abandonment, with symptoms happening over their entire adult life, with ups and downs. I don't throw the label around, but I don't think you have to be a doctor to recognize the disorder in its severe form. Many BPDs never get treatment, and many doctors suspect BPD but don't give a formal diagnosis because sometimes the diagnosis will make the symptoms worse or cause the person to quit treatment altogether. Some doctors even refuse to see BPD patients. I definitely agree that every drama queen is not a Borderline, but I do feel there are many undiagnosed BPDs that will never be diagnosed in their lifetimes.

[salparadise]

I don't throw the label around, but I don't think you have to be a doctor to recognize the disorder in its severe form.

[...]

I definitely agree that every drama queen is not a Borderline, but I do feel there are many undiagnosed BPDs that will never be diagnosed in their lifetimes.

 

Exactly. People who have experience with BPDs as spouses, dating partners or relatives know that it isn't some mythical concept that only exists in the imaginations of the woefully misinformed. It's real, it's fairly common, and when someone exhibits the characteristic behaviors it's often one of those looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck revelations.

 

It's not really any different than the realization that someone who drinks til they pass out everyday is alcoholic. Not everyone who drinks is alcoholic, and not every alcoholic is instantly recognizable, but there many that a person would have to be in total denial to not see it for what it is.

 

Every time someone (especially a female) exhibits behavior another cannot understand, the BPD police come in with their alarms and radar. I find it offensive.

 

I find it offensive that some posters (the no-such-thing-as-BPD police) try to squash any discussion of the topic and label anyone who uses the term as ignorant, misinformed and overzealous. I often wonder if the criteria aren't just a bit too familiar, as may the case when someone doth protest too much.

 

I appreciate and support those who are well informed on the subject, are measured their speech, and provide a wealth of accurate information to those who are confused, diminished and in the fog of these disorienting attachments.

 

As to whether BPDs are good prospects for a potential relationship... I'll just say it's not all that different from alcoholics or many other severe mental illnesses; no rational person would intentionally make that choice.

 

PS: those linked video are awful. we should provide something worth watching instead.

Edited August 1, 2015 by salparadise

[elaine567]

PS: those linked video are awful. we should provide something worth watching instead.

 

I think the main purpose of the thread was to highlight the awfulness of the videos.

[Downtown]

When people try to define themselves or their exes with these diagnoses they're essentially making excuses for their behavior.

You don't know that, Lana. Like SalParadise, my experience is that the members wanting to discuss BPD on LoveShack seem to be genuinely interested in understanding what is motivating their abusive partners. While some members may be looking only for excuses, others are looking for understanding. Hence, until you develop the ability to read their minds at a great distance, it is inappropriate for you to try to shut down BPD discussions by simply ASSUMING the OP has a bad motive.

[Haydn]

You don't know that, Lana. Like SalParadise, my experience is that the members wanting to discuss BPD on LoveShack seem to be genuinely interested in understanding what is motivating their abusive partners. While some members may be looking only for excuses, others are looking for understanding. Hence, until you develop the ability to read their minds at a great distance, it is inappropriate for you to try to shut down BPD discussions by simply ASSUMING the OP has a bad motive.

 

Absolutely...

 

For fear of repeating my earlier posts....

 

BPD relationships are not only about being `dumped` They are toxic and highly addictive. Even as a dumper you are likely to repeat a cycle until there is no more possibly left to give.