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I don't initiate.


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toscaroscura

Controversial topic on LS: I don't initiate with men. I won't ask them out. I won't ask for their numbers or text them first.

 

I will be enthusiastic and show interest if I like him. I will flirt! But the initial contact -chase, if you will- has to come from him.

 

I'm not following any sort of weird "rules" or anything. I'm not trying to be a princess and I don't think I'm entitled to adoration. This all comes from my youth, growing up as a nerdy girl around shy guys.

 

Every time I initiated anything with a guy, it would blow up in my face. They would either play hot and cold with me, enjoying my attentions until they ultimately rejected me, or they might date me for a while until someone they really liked came along. These were shy nerdy types like myself for the most part. They gave me signs of interest, as much as shy types do, so it's not like I was chasing guys out of my league or who definitely weren't into me at all.

 

With my ex-husband, he was extremely shy and stoic. I had to do everything. Ask him out, kiss him, beg him to move in, ask him to get married. Sure, we were young, but still. As a result, I had a man who I suppose loved me and was faithful, but there was never any passion from him. I didn't feel like he wanted me. I just felt like he settled for me, as he was never popular with the girls and I was the first and only that ever liked him. I remember so often, hanging off him, caressing him, while he sat as still as a statue. He'd never initiate sex.

 

So now? I want clear, traditional interest. I feel bad when I hear guys here who yearn for women to chase them, but I just can't do it anymore. To be clear, the first few encounters are what I am talking about. I'm not saying I'm going to sit back doing nothing during our relationship. But those first few dates? Sorry, no more shy guys too shy to make a move for me.

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That's fine. You can encourage with eye contact (if at a party/gathering), looking at their profile (if online), but the guy who is interested will usually ask you out. I did the same and it worked for me. You can reciprocate and initiate more after those first couple of dates.

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JuneJulySeptember
Controversial topic on LS: I don't initiate with men. I won't ask them out. I won't ask for their numbers or text them first.

 

I will be enthusiastic and show interest if I like him. I will flirt! But the initial contact -chase, if you will- has to come from him.

 

I'm not following any sort of weird "rules" or anything. I'm not trying to be a princess and I don't think I'm entitled to adoration. This all comes from my youth, growing up as a nerdy girl around shy guys.

 

Every time I initiated anything with a guy, it would blow up in my face. They would either play hot and cold with me, enjoying my attentions until they ultimately rejected me, or they might date me for a while until someone they really liked came along. These were shy nerdy types like myself for the most part. They gave me signs of interest, as much as shy types do, so it's not like I was chasing guys out of my league or who definitely weren't into me at all.

 

With my ex-husband, he was extremely shy and stoic. I had to do everything. Ask him out, kiss him, beg him to move in, ask him to get married. Sure, we were young, but still. As a result, I had a man who I suppose loved me and was faithful, but there was never any passion from him. I didn't feel like he wanted me. I just felt like he settled for me, as he was never popular with the girls and I was the first and only that ever liked him. I remember so often, hanging off him, caressing him, while he sat as still as a statue. He'd never initiate sex.

 

So now? I want clear, traditional interest. I feel bad when I hear guys here who yearn for women to chase them, but I just can't do it anymore. To be clear, the first few encounters are what I am talking about. I'm not saying I'm going to sit back doing nothing during our relationship. But those first few dates? Sorry, no more shy guys too shy to make a move for me.

 

You want clear traditional interest based on your looks, or on your personality?

 

For me, as an older guy, if a woman is difficult to talk to, then I won't bother. I'm not going to pursue a co-worker, or girl who works at the local store, or etc, just because she's pretty. If there's no rapport, then there's absolutely nothing lost.

 

And then, if a woman is easy to talk to, then yes, of course I will ask her out. That's happened loads of times. If a man is over 30 and has trouble asking out a woman he has a rapport with, then he's in trouble.

Edited by JuneJulySeptember
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toscaroscura
You want clear traditional interest based on your looks, or on your personality?

 

For me, as an older guy, if a woman is difficult to talk to, then I won't bother. I'm not going to pursue a co-worker, or girl who works at the local store, or etc, just because she's pretty. If there's no rapport, then there's absolutely nothing lost.

 

And then, if a woman is easy to talk to, then yes, of course I will ask her out. That's happened loads of times. If a man is over 30 and has trouble asking out a woman he has a rapport with, then he's in trouble.

 

I'm very easy to talk to. I'm not aloof at all. :)

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todreaminblue

my grandpa always told me never to chase men.....if a man is really interested in a woman he will ask....and i have deviated from this rule once......and it didn't end well......I should not have asked it did not feel right at all..smilin.....there's nothing wrong with waiting for a guy to ask...if its how you do it ...its how you do it.....the right guy for you will ask..to me it also shows courage and shy guys will have courage to ask if they like you enough ........deb

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Yep, generally speaking I completely agree.

 

While it can work occasionally, I've seen it blow up on women a lot more often than not.

 

By all means, flirt, give strong signals of interest. If the guy is keen enough on you, he'll make that first move.

 

If not, well, you've avoided a potentially rough situation.

 

A lot of men will accept female attention because it's an easy and pleasant distraction. Very few guys will turn down a roll in the hay with an attractive woman, even if deep down they know there's no real long term potential.

 

To be fair OP, you're an attractive woman. I can see why you wouldn't need to initiate to get attention :-D

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If I had nice legs, I would not have to make the first moves either. Good for you.... why should a woman stick her neck out and risk rejection if she does not have to? More power to you I say.

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it's not about rejection, Gary. it's about denying a man the pleasure of the chase. In the end, that is also what helps maintain his interest, the suspense, his not having certitude... People treasure more things that do not come easy to them.

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Seems perfectly normal. That's all you really need to do, he'll most likely take the hint.

 

After you've been seeing him for a while and you're comfortable, initiating kissing and sex is a turn on to me. Not all the time, but just like you feel wanted when he initiates, he feels the same way when you do.

 

Maybe I'm projecting a little.

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JuneJulySeptember
it's not about rejection, Gary. it's about denying a man the pleasure of the chase. In the end, that is also what helps maintain his interest, the suspense, his not having certitude... People treasure more things that do not come easy to them.

 

LMAO. You really think most men enjoy the chase?

 

That's like saying I love getting rejected by job after job until I finally land something that's worthy.

 

Looking for a job is not fun. It sucks. And getting rejected by women sucks too.

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toscaroscura
it's not about rejection, Gary. it's about denying a man the pleasure of the chase. In the end, that is also what helps maintain his interest, the suspense, his not having certitude... People treasure more things that do not come easy to them.

 

Right, it's not rejection. I've been rejected. I have initiated with men who were giving me no signals other than being polite and friendly. I figured, what the heck, it's not 1950, might as well take a shot, right? Got rejected. And yet, that didn't sting as much as the ones I thought really liked me. The ones that acted interested but were really just going along for the ride.

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toscaroscura
LMAO. You really think most men enjoy the chase?

 

That's like saying I love getting rejected by job after job until I finally land something that's worthy.

 

Looking for a job is not fun. It sucks. And getting rejected by women sucks too.

 

I'm not sure about "the chase". I do think certain personality types love the chase more than others. It's not that I want the he-man chase thing. It's more that, I want to strike a man's fancy, genuinely and completely. Not just be the "just for now girl".

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JuneJulySeptember
I'm not sure about "the chase". I do think certain personality types love the chase more than others. It's not that I want the he-man chase thing. It's more that, I want to strike a man's fancy, genuinely and completely. Not just be the "just for now girl".

 

That is true.

 

Some men see women as objects to be won, and certain women see themselves as objects that men need to work for.

 

Most men I know don't want that though. They want the path of least resistance. They dream of meeting a cute, cool woman, hitting it off, and having it happen like freshman year of college.

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toscaroscura
I'm going to offer a different viewpoint on this scenario. This is why I don't think people should allow one bad experience with dating change how they act around the opposite sex. Now, because your past relationship didn't work out, you refuse to initiate anything with men. You have basically let your ex dictate how you are going to live now. How hard is it to do these things?

 

Perhaps I wasn't clear, but it wasn't one ex. He was the most significant, but this has been an ongoing pattern my entire life.

 

And, it's actually easy for me to initiate. :) It's more natural, but it isn't working for me. Not initiating requires much more discipline!

 

As a guy, sometimes it is nice to have a woman ask me out, text me first, or ask for my number. It's flattering! It's one thing for a woman to flirt and go along with my advances, but another thing entirely if she is interested in me enough to actually let me know.

 

And the guys I have gone after have been flattered as well! But I am looking for more than flattered. ;)

 

I get it, I do. You have been burned, so now you want men to take on all of the risk. That's fine, and it may even work for you, but like I said before, as a guy, sometimes it's just cool when a woman meets me half way, or even comes to me.

 

Don't misunderstand me. I don't advocate being a cold fish, giving a man zero signs of interest, and expecting him to fall all over me. I'm flirtatious, warm and friendly. I will make a point to talk and walk with men I like. I used to be quite shy but I have come a long way!

 

 

Again, you are letting your relationship with your ex dictate too much. Just because things didn't go well this once, does that mean you should change your entire outlook on dating?

 

See above about my ex. It's a pattern, not just him.

 

Ok, so now you have decided dating must be one way, or it won't happen. What happens when you date someone else, or maybe a couple more guys, and you notice something else you don't like? Then you have another rule that you won't accept.

 

 

Flexibility is a big factor in relationships. You have decided to be inflexible about this particular issue, and things might still work out for you, but it can be a slippery slope. Besides, I don't know any guy that likes to hear about what he has to do because a woman's ex screwed her over.

 

I'm not inflexible. It's just another method I have recently adopted. When something doesn't work for so long, you look within and think, maybe I need to change something about how I approach this.

 

Don't worry, I don't talk about my ex to my dates. That's just bad form.

 

 

Responses in bold above to particular points.

 

I'm going to give you a real life example to maybe help illustrate it better.

 

There's this coworker I have had a crush on for a while. He's short, geeky and he is self-proclaimed shy and "bad with women". He hasn't had a date in like 2 years.

 

We have flirted and talked a LOT during the normal course of the days at work. He has had ample opportunity to talk to me more. He doesn't text me, he doesn't message me on Facebook. He will talk and flirt, but I notice he doesn't make a special point to be around me. I noticed when there were 2 other girls he seemed more into, on separate occasions, and he followed them around like a puppy! Lol

 

Now I am sure he thinks I'm pretty hot and probably fun, based on his flirting. I might be able to grab him, kiss him, and say "I really like you, you idiot! Let's date!" And he might take me up on it! The old me might have done this (though less brazenly :laugh:).

 

But, I know he's just horny, bored and lonely too. I don't spark him. I could never be sure I was really his first choice. I'd remember all the times he didn't reach out to me. The times he chose to walk away or ahead of me rather than with me. The outings he didn't invite me to. The way his face lit up with those other 2 girls.

 

I'm not going to waste my time wondering why, why doesn't he like me. He's had chances, he's not into me, I'm letting it lie.

 

And that's all I do.

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It's true that playing hard to get doubles interest (as long as there is something to start with).

 

If a woman is beauty challenged, it's a good idea. But if the woman is beautiful, it's really not necessary - the guys are gonna be all over you like white on rice no matter what ya do.

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toscaroscura
It's true that playing hard to get doubles interest (as long as there is something to start with).

 

If a woman is beauty challenged, it's a good idea. But if the woman is beautiful, it's really not necessary - the guys are gonna be all over you like white on rice no matter what ya do.

 

I honestly have no idea if I am "beautiful". I have been called beautiful a lot, but then I read on here men describing their perfect woman's dimensions and I don't fit them. So I dunno. I think I have a "different" kind of beauty.

 

I really don't think of myself as "playing hard to get". :rolleyes: I am just waiting for clear interest. No ambiguity, no hot and cold, no wishy-washy-ness!

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Shining One
I could never be sure I was really his first choice.
It's highly unlikely that you will ever be anyone's first choice. This is not a knock against you personally, it's simply the way the world works. You can walk into a bar and a wonderful guy sweeps you off your feet. You don't know that the two women he talked to earlier that evening had rejected him.
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toscaroscura
It's highly unlikely that you will ever be anyone's first choice. This is not a knock against you personally, it's simply the way the world works. You can walk into a bar and a wonderful guy sweeps you off your feet. You don't know that the two women he talked to earlier that evening had rejected him.

 

Well, I know that. One could argue that no man will be my "first choice" either, because I was married!

 

I'm not talking about a first choice in the aggregate sense, or in a Platonic ideal sense. All I mean is, I want to spark him. I want him to feel that excited desire to get to know me, to think I am special. Even if he talked to 2 women that night, it doesn't matter, because we connected and I'm the one on his mind after the night is over! And I want to feel it too, for him.

 

Maybe that's idealistic, but I have seen it and I know it's out there.

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I'm not sure about "the chase". I do think certain personality types love the chase more than others. It's not that I want the he-man chase thing. It's more that, I want to strike a man's fancy, genuinely and completely. Not just be the "just for now girl".

 

This can still very easily happen, and not just because you don't pursue. I've seen numerous 'she'll do for the time being' gfs, where the women did not ask out the guy nor work to push the relationship along. In some of the cases the girls were beautiful but then the guy was attractive too and had plenty of options and liked being in relationships but mostly nothing past 12 mths as he wanted to taste more flavors. There are also other guys from the desperate to the exploiters who will follow up on a woman showing interest in them but have no intention of being involved in anything serious long term. Just saying. Likewise when I've hung out with good looking guys, many women don't hold back on letting him know they are a sure thing, and totally set themselves up for a Pn'D, though I suspect many don't mind that outcome.

 

For you avoiding the sting of rejection or the muster of courage is very likely not the case given the experience (1 off tho) with your ex, but no way does that apply to most women imo (not the experience but the unease of initiating). I do think quite a few guys will go with the flow when it comes to a woman asking them out, so women need to be wary but if they hold off until they get a good vibe back from the guy they will be on safer ground. I prefer to have women meet the guy half way or at least give unambiguous IOIs.

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Every time I initiated anything with a guy, it would blow up in my face. They would either play hot and cold with me, enjoying my attentions until they ultimately rejected me, or they might date me for a while until someone they really liked came along.

 

Well, at least now you know how guys feel most of the time:)

 

Seriously though, if you don't feel like initiating, then don't.

 

It might limit potential people but maybe you are not interested in guys that don't make a move anyway.

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toscaroscura
That guy is your typical struggling dude. I would give him the same advice I give others on here. He is dateless because he keeps chasing women who are not into him. This is the biggest reason I see men struggling with women. Here he has a woman who is clearly into him (and if I'm being honest, you actually seem like a decent one) and he shows you almost zero interest in favor of some other women. Guy is an idiot. If I knew him IRL, I would tell him as much.

 

 

 

I agree with your assessment of this guy. If I were you, I would even cut the flirting out. If he asked why, I would tell him why. He is bad with women because he is chasing the wrong ones. I'd say the problem here is that guy, not your approach.

 

Funny you should mention that! I don't flirt with him anymore. :)

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BlackOpsZombieGirl

Well, if one method of meeting/dating/attracting a guy doesn't work, it's smart to try out other methods to see if those work. Your avatar shows that you're a cute and pretty woman, and your posts show that you're intelligent, articulate and have a good sense of humor! I just find it so hard to believe that guys have been rejecting your initiation of interest in them for your entire dating life - including your ex-husband! What did you ever see in him?!:confused: Didn't you notice while you were dating him how stoic and UNresponsive he was with his affection and his adoration for you? Anyways, that's all in the past.

 

For me, it's 50/50. Half of the time I'll let a guy that I like, am attracted to and am interested in pursue me; and the other half of the time, I'll approach a guy and start a convo with him about anything that I can think of (or about something that has to do with our environment) to see if he's interested in me or is attracted to me. If he isn't, it's no biggie; and there's nothing lost. It really is a numbers game. Most of the time, when I see something/or someone that I like and want, I go after it/them. I don't ever want to miss out on someone or an opportunity I could've had by sitting back and waiting for it/them to come to me. It's just like someone wanting to win the lottery - they won't ever have the chance to win if they don't buy a ticket!

 

Good luck with changing your dating method, I hope it ends up working out for ya. Just remember...guys like it when a woman shows an interest in them, even if it's just starting a friendly convo, making eye contact or smiling at them! With as outgoing as you seem to be, I'm sure you do that already. ;)

 

 

.

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toscaroscura
Well, if one method of meeting/dating/attracting a guy doesn't work, it's smart to try out other methods to see if those work. Your avatar shows that you're a cute and pretty woman, and your posts show that you're intelligent, articulate and have a good sense of humor! I just find it so hard to believe that guys have been rejecting your initiation of interest in them for your entire dating life - including your ex-husband! What did you ever see in him?!:confused: Didn't you notice while you were dating him how stoic and UNresponsive he was with his affection and his adoration for you? Anyways, that's all in the past.

 

For me, it's 50/50. Half of the time I'll let a guy that I like, am attracted to and am interested in pursue me; and the other half of the time, I'll approach a guy and start a convo with him about anything that I can think of (or about something that has to do with our environment) to see if he's interested in me or is attracted to me. If he isn't, it's no biggie; and there's nothing lost. It really is a numbers game. Most of the time, when I see something/or someone that I like and want, I go after it/them. I don't ever want to miss out on someone or an opportunity I could've had by sitting back and waiting for it/them to come to me. It's just like someone wanting to win the lottery - they won't ever have the chance to win if they don't buy a ticket!

 

Good luck with changing your dating method, I hope it ends up working out for ya. Just remember...guys like it when a woman shows an interest in them, even if it's just starting a friendly convo, making eye contact or smiling at them! With as outgoing as you seem to be, I'm sure you do that already. ;)

 

 

.

 

Thank you! :D

 

He had a lot of good qualities. He was gentle, kind and brilliant. Plus I grew up a sad, lonely kid whose father had a hair-trigger temper so there's a lot of weird reasons why I would have been with him. He was safe and life with him was soothing, very different from my childhood home.

 

It's not like me initiating never "worked". Sometimes it did, and clearly, I got a husband out of it. ;) But the relationships were unsatisfying as I said.

 

My ex husband and I, toward the end of our marriage, became friends with this other engaged couple. The man in that couple was so clearly absolutely crazy in love with his fiancee. It made outings with them very painful for me. One time, after having to watch him canoodling up to his fiancee all night at a kareoke bar, I tried being cute and affectionate with my ex. He seemed embarrassed that I was even touching him. Granted, I had had a few mai tais and I admit the display was pure insecurity and not my proudest moment, but keep in mind this had been building up for 20 years. We met as young teens. So yeah. And before anyone says it, my ex was never that crazy in love with me, even in the beginning when it should have been the honeymoon phase. In fact, the beginning was worse. This was a boy who used to let go of my hand and walk ahead of me if people saw us in public.

 

Also, reading your second paragraph I realize, maybe the term "initiate" is not as clear as we think. See, I actually don't consider starting a conversation with a man "initiating". It can be an indicator of interest, but I absolutely do start conversations! Not just with men, but a lot of people.

 

When I say initiate, I mean explicit asking out. Asking for numbers. Texting and/or Facebook messaging first when things are still new and there isn't a precedent for it (like we aren't both members of a pre-existing chat group).

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