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Esther Perel - rethinking infidelity.


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movingon45

Please google Esther Perel on TED talk and watch her 20 min talk on this topic. I'm not sure if posting links is allowed here. The title is Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved. Let me know your thoughts after watching it.

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Please google Esther Perel on TED talk and watch her 20 min talk on this topic. I'm not sure if posting links is allowed here. The title is Esther Perel: Rethinking infidelity ... a talk for anyone who has ever loved. Let me know your thoughts after watching it.

 

I've previously seen her TED talk and think she makes some very good points.

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...including this:

 

Betrayal in a relationship comes in many forms. There are many ways that we betray our partner: with contempt, with neglect, with indifference, with violence. Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner. In other words, the victim of an affair is not always the victim of the marriage.
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Mycatsnuggles

Esther Perel has presented a new "Ted talk" about infidelity. She covers so many topics that I feel are relevant. Much of what she says I feel applied to myself. I have only watched it once. It was a lot to ingest and will have to view again.

 

I am still unraveling the why and it was nice to hear I am not necessarily a sociopath for engaging in an affair. It's certainly been a possibility I have wondered about.

 

Having to defend why you stay, this was the part that made me think of this community. Why is staying and creating a new relationship not seen as an attribute. Why is the route answer always divorce.

 

 

I hope you'll watch.

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Just watched it. If you have an email notification request with TED Talks, you just got the link in your email a couple of hours ago.

 

There's a transcript of the talk you can download.

 

She brings up a LOT of points and moves through them quickly with not much depth — which is all you can do in a TED Talk. For example, she goes through a list of all the kinds of affairs people can have with no discussion or comparison.

 

As the poster said, her statements on reconciliation (without using that word once) were bold. "

And if we used to divorce because we were unhappy, today we divorce because we could be happier. And if divorce carried all the shame, today, choosing to stay when you can leave is the new shame. So Heather, she can't talk to her friends because she's afraid that they will judge her for still loving Nick, and everywhere she turns, she gets the same advice: Leave him. Throw the dog on the curb. And if the situation were reversed, Nick would be in the same situation. Staying is the new shame.
However, not sure my takeaway - if I were a WS - would be OP's. Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
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I read the transcript ( i'm almost deaf, so wathcing it doesn;t do much for me), and while she makes some good points,it sounds like she is describing what used to be called " mid life crisis" as the explanation for many affairs. This isn't really a new concept, she's just repackaged it.

 

What she says has been said by others for a long time.

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autumnnight
it was nice to hear I am not necessarily a sociopath for engaging in an affair

 

Most people on the internet will disagree with his.

 

But you're right. You are most likely NOT a sociopath.

 

I do think the talk oversimplifies things, but I agree that in order for there to be a reconciliation where the A does not remain the central theme of the marriage, one needs to create a new marriage.

 

Problems is, lots of people need to keep the A as the central theme because of the secondary gain - and that can be the BS or the WS.

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Certainly places some different concepts to light.

 

I"ll need to absorb more in order to change my thought process.

 

My concern is she seems to excuse the behavior as it being an emotional need, and since emotions are neither right or wrong , then the wayward is completely "fine" for pursuing it. ( almost entitled to chose wrong??)

 

i do agree that once exposed the marriage will transistion, if they so choose.

 

Why though shoot yourself in the foot to begin with? Then in so doing basically telling your spouse they need to nurse you back to health for your indescretion? Sometimes we don't need to drink bleach to know its poison, its written on the package.

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Certainly places some different concepts to light.

 

I"ll need to absorb more in order to change my thought process.

 

My concern is she seems to excuse the behavior as it being an emotional need, and since emotions are neither right or wrong , then the wayward is completely "fine" for pursuing it. ( almost entitled to chose wrong.

 

I had the same takeaway.

 

Regardless of how it's packaged, meeting my needs at my BS expense is not an act of love. If I have to empty her bucket to fill mine, I'm honoring neither her nor the relationship.

 

Lots of new spin on old ideas here...

 

Mr. Lucky

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She's an engaging speaker.

 

 

Reminds me of dinner parties I sometimes attend where everyone is in academia. All the conversation sounds very profound until you actually pay attention to what they are saying and realize much of it has no practical application, is very far removed from the real world and is actually laughable.

 

 

Affairs as self actualization? I don't think so. Maybe one in a billion where the mistress is also muse to a world renowned artist lol. Otherwise, most affairs I have seen are efforts to avoid the hard work of healthy self actualization.

 

 

Affairs as a way to feel alive? Again seems like a celebration of dysfunction. There are lots of unhealthy things people can do to feel alive, but usually these are ways to avoid responsibility for the personal choices you've made that deaden your soul.

 

 

There's a subtle underlying text in what she says that infers people having affairs are more enlightened than those who are betrayed. If that weren't so ridiculous, it would be insulting.

 

 

The one thing I agree with her on is that in the case of infidelity, you do have to let the old marriage go and start a new one. She also repeats a lot of the same things other people say you need to do to reconcile a M, but there is so much other overly intellectualized drivel mixed in that its hard for me to take her seriously.

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I can understand how what she is saying can have a certain appeal, especially if you are the ws. This is not to say that she is per se wrong, but that it is really oversimplifying the situation, and, as I said, taking an old concept ( mid life crisis) an wrapping it in a sightly different package.

 

I can also see how what she says may be helpful after an affair, but it's not much use before one happens, unless she's advocating cheating as a way to solve problems, and I don't think that's what she's proposing.

 

One can achieve the same ends with a whole lot less heartache.

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I can understand how what she is saying can have a certain appeal, especially if you are the ws. This is not to say that she is per se wrong, but that it is really oversimplifying the situation, and, as I said, taking an old concept ( mid life crisis) an wrapping it in a sightly different package.

 

I can also see how what she says may be helpful after an affair, but it's not much use before one happens, unless she's advocating cheating as a way to solve problems, and I don't think that's what she's proposing.

 

One can achieve the same ends with a whole lot less heartache.

 

 

Sure why wouldn't a WS want to hear that their A was simply a way for them to self actualize and feel alive again, etc. That absolves them from what is really going on.

 

 

As to the bolded, yes it is a lot like mid life crisis which imo is old festering unresolved wounds usually from family or origin or childhood which have not been dealt with. These things tend to keep bubbling up throughout life and especially at mid-life unless/until you deal with them.

 

 

Where she misses the boat imo, is that affairs are usually about NOT dealing with them. She claims its not a different person a cheater is looking for but a different self. I think its just the opposite. Usually the cheater is looking for a person who will mirror back the dysfunctional self and say Im ok youre ok.

 

 

I think one of the reasons so many WS return to their marriage is that its the spouse who is the one who expects more of them(their best) and will not accept/ok the dysfunctional self. Because really all of us deep in our hearts want to be our best selves and to overcome whatever wounds we carry.

 

 

But, still that requires a lot of work and is sometimes a herculean task depending on the wounds. Affairs are a way to postpone that hard work.

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recap: it sounds to me that she is shedding light on the process of the ws and utilizing emotional starvation. equating it to getting ones perceived needs met. Fair enough. She also states most affairs spawn from the need to be happy or fulfilled. Which goes back to the typical excuse " my spouse" is at fault. Rather irrational. What does get my interest is that in life it is our adversities that challenge our depth of character and resiliency. So yeah.... IF the wayward truly wishes to revitalize the marriage then genuine remorse is necessary. Most are repeat offenders... so at what point does someone stand up and move on. ?

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I can also see how what she says may be helpful after an affair, but it's not much use before one happens, unless she's advocating cheating as a way to solve problems, and I don't think that's what she's proposing.

 

One can achieve the same ends with a whole lot less heartache.

 

Amen. And other than peripherally, never heard her address this point - why not "self-actualize" and pursue fulfillment of one's emotional needs thru divorce? I mean, if you're that unhappy, go find your legitimate different self...

 

Mr. Lucky

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drifter777

I began to feel anger and contempt at the speaker as I listened. Its like she's giving the cheater a pass because the act of cheating fills an important need. The cheater wants to experience the crazy, exciting passion of a new love so who can blame them for doing it? To bad you hurt your spouse but maybe its good for them too!

 

The only part that intrigued me was her conclusion that people will have several relationships or marriages in their lifetime so, after infidelity, this marriage is dead. I agree completely with this. However, I question the sanity of the BS who chooses to start their next marriage with this same cheating bastard!

 

Have to add how much I appreciated her acknowledging the shame a BS feels for staying with a cheater. Now, if she had only provided a magic formula for easing this pain...

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autumnnight
I began to feel anger and contempt at the speaker as I listened. Its like she's giving the cheater a pass because the act of cheating fills an important need. The cheater wants to experience the crazy, exciting passion of a new love so who can blame them for doing it? To bad you hurt your spouse but maybe its good for them too!

 

The only part that intrigued me was her conclusion that people will have several relationships or marriages in their lifetime so, after infidelity, this marriage is dead. I agree completely with this. However, I question the sanity of the BS who chooses to start their next marriage with this same cheating bastard!

 

Have to add how much I appreciated her acknowledging the shame a BS feels for staying with a cheater. Now, if she had only provided a magic formula for easing this pain...

 

I'm not sure if it's magic, but the answer to that shame is to divorce.

 

Or choose to find a way to embrace the marriage.

 

Neither are easy. But neither is chosen misery.

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If she is blaming the need for self actualization ( which seems to be drawn from Maslow's hierarchy of needs) as the cause for many people's decision to have an affair, then the decision for that choice rests on the shoulders of the ws.

 

If she defines self actualization in the way Maslow did, as being the peak of a list of needs that every human has, then that need to seek this lies within the individual involved and does not come from external sources, and it tends to only be considered when all the other needs are being met.

 

If this is the case, then it could be that the person is actually so secure and has their needs met enough that they in a place where they want even more.

 

If one looks up the term mid life crisis, it sounds very similar to the need for self actualization. One has all their basic needs met, and is questioning their life and if there can be more to it than what they already have and have done.

 

That is not a bad thing, and can be a great thing, so long as they don't hurt others along the way in their quest to find what they are looking for.

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Esther Perel has presented a new "Ted talk" about infidelity. She covers so many topics that I feel are relevant. Much of what she says I feel applied to myself. I have only watched it once. It was a lot to ingest and will have to view again.

 

I am still unraveling the why and it was nice to hear I am not necessarily a sociopath for engaging in an affair. It's certainly been a possibility I have wondered about.

 

Having to defend why you stay, this was the part that made me think of this community. Why is staying and creating a new relationship not seen as an attribute. Why is the route answer always divorce.

 

 

I hope you'll watch.

 

 

 

This was one of the parts I found particularly resonant:

 

Betrayal in a relationship comes in many forms. There are many ways that we betray our partner: with contempt, with neglect, with indifference, with violence. Sexual betrayal is only one way to hurt a partner. In other words, the victim of an affair is not always the victim of the marriage.
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zebracolors

I came across this Ted Talk by Esther Perel [on YouTube], that I thought was insightful. Of course, its a common occurrence. We are often slaves to our human natures, whether we act on that nature or not. Im not posting this video to argue that infidelity is ok by any means. I just think it could give some insight about understanding why we do it, and why others do it. It also might be good to help the individual think how to resolve their own situations and recover. And of course your own thoughts are welcome here for discussion:)

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drifter777
I'm not sure if it's magic, but the answer to that shame is to divorce.

 

Or choose to find a way to embrace the marriage.

 

Neither are easy. But neither is chosen misery.

I agree with the divorce part but finding a way to embrace the marriage is a little bit of "get over it already". The marriage is dead so start a new relationship with this cheater who betrayed you once already? And knowing they are more likely to cheat again because they've proven this is an open option for them? Insane to take that path so you loop back to divorce as the best solution. Other than magic.

 

I'm stuck in an impossible situation and cannot divorce which is why I'll keep looking for magic. Its my only hope.

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When moderation sees repeated links to information which gains someone monetary benefit, we start to think it's advertising, something which normally gets members banned.

 

Hence, since Google works really well, including searching videos on YouTube, which Google owns, simply take the content and discuss it, which is the purpose of our forum, and provide search terms that any reader can utilize if they wish to investigate further.

 

I'll do a minor fixup and invite members to discuss the concepts of why we cheat.

 

Edited to add that I merged two threads on this similar topic into GRD.

 

Another edit to reflect merging of another, prior thread which redefined the thread title.

Edited by William
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