BlackOpsZombieGirl Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 . I remember earlier this year about the girl on youtube that had someone with a camera follow her around the streets of NY city all day and she said that she was catcalled over 100 times and she considered most of them to be a form of sexual harassment. Then I read this article on Yahoo today about a woman who told the police department about a group of construction workers who "wolf whistled" her every day she walked by there on her way to work: Why wolf whistling shouldn't be a crime I've been catcalled and whistled at throughout my lifetime. Sometimes, I thought/felt that it was annoying and sometimes downright rude (because of some of the inappropriate things the guys said) but, for the most part, the catcalling itself didn't last more than a few seconds. I never acted annoyed or gave the guys a dirty look as I walked past them; sometimes I just kept on looking straight ahead, other times I opened my eyes really big because I was startled and other other times I smirked and just kept on going. Acting angry or insulted wouldn't have made any difference and may have made the situation worse or would've given them the satisfaction of rattling my chain. But, as a woman, I can certainly understand why a lot of women feel that this is a form of sexual harassment and why they'd feel threatened or scared of it, especially if they're walking by themselves or have been sexually harassed in the past. So, to both the guys and gals here, I'd like to hear some of your experiences with this (whether you were the catcaller or the catcallee lol) and would like to know if you consider catcalling and wolf whistling a form of sexual harassment towards women, if you think it's a form of disrespect towards them or if you think it's a harmless form of declaration of their physical attraction towards women that guys have been doing to the female species since the beginning of time. . Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I can think of 2 times when I was catcalled, and 1 of the times I was VERY alarmed. And of course, when I ignored the catcalling and kept walking, then came the "B**ch! F**k you! Stupid white b**ch!" shouts that definitely made me feel very unsafe. Definitely felt harassed. The other time was just a quick shout out a car window as they drove past. Came and went quicker than I could process, so.... meh? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 As a gender non-conforming male bodied person I have had both experiences of this. I have both been cat called and done the cat calling. Perhaps because I know 99.5% of the time the one doing it really does not mean anything by it it does not bother me. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
lemoncello Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think catcalling is definitely a form of sexual harassment. There's nothing complimentary about being catcalled by some strange guy on the street. The anti-street harassment organization Hollaback! has a website and has activists in 92 cities and 32 countries. The Washington Post posted a video made by Hollaback! that documents one woman's experience of being catcalled by men on the streets of New York City for ten hours. Catcalling is illegal in some states, like New York, according to the Washington Post article: New York's disorderly conduct law bars obscene language or gestures in a public place. Its harassment law bars someone from making alarming or seriously annoying comments to you at least twice (both violations: a $250 fine and/or up to 15 days in jail). Meanwhile, in Arkansas, Arizona, Colorado, Georgia, Kentucky, Minnesota, and Pennsylvania, it's illegal to follow people (as happens to the woman in the video twice). In the District of Columbia, it's illegal to engage in abusive language or conduct that disturbs a person's path through public space. And the organization Stop the Street Harassment published a guide on state laws applied to street harassers, which catcallers would fall under. On Stop the Street Harassment's website, they write: Catcalls, sexually explicit comments, sexist remarks, homophobic slurs, groping, leering, stalking, flashing, and assault. Most women and some men will face gender-based street harassment by strangers in their life. Street harassment limits people's mobility and access to public spaces. It is a form of gender violence and it's a human rights violation. It needs to stop. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
lollipopspot Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 and done the cat calling why would you do that? Link to post Share on other sites
Author BlackOpsZombieGirl Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I can think of 2 times when I was catcalled, and 1 of the times I was VERY alarmed. And of course, when I ignored the catcalling and kept walking, then came the "B**ch! F**k you! Stupid white b**ch!" shouts that definitely made me feel very unsafe. Definitely felt harassed. The other time was just a quick shout out a car window as they drove past. Came and went quicker than I could process, so.... meh? Wow, if that had happened to me, I would've been VERY scared (and ANGRY)!! What happened to you was DEFINITELY a form of harassment! The other time when they shouted out of a passing car window, it didn't startle you or frighten you, so, thank goodness for that. I like your new pic, Phoe! . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrlonelyone Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 why would you do that? Because I thought the woman or man looked good. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I wish I was catcalled 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Elias33 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 While in some situations it can be experienced as sexual harrasment, it should never be confused with it. These terms get a broader meaning by the day and lose it's meaning. Let's just decide that cat calling is rude, like yelling, or cussing, stuff like that. Any form of flirting, no matter how cheesy or douchy, can then be called herrasment. We just have to remember what sexual harrasment really is. If this catcalling, is experienced as bullying or teasing, it is just that. Sexual harrasment is of course a more serious matter, when sexual favors are requested, or indecent comments are hurled at the vicitm (man or woman). And THAT is where we should make a clear distinction, because those incidents would deserve our outrage. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Illegal? No. Stupid? OMG, yes! The government isn't your nanny or the principal. It's not the job of the government to criminalize annoyances. Fixing that idiotic tradition really starts at home. Teach your sons not to be dateless losers who yell to passers by and score a date exactly 0/10,000 times. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author BlackOpsZombieGirl Posted May 7, 2015 Author Share Posted May 7, 2015 I think catcalling is definitely a form of sexual harassment. There's nothing complimentary about being catcalled by some strange guy on the street. The anti-street harassment organization Hollaback! has a website and has activists in 92 cities and 32 countries. Hollaback...that's what the organization was called that did the catcalling video I talked about in the beginning of my OP, thanks for reminding me of it! And yes, catcalling is a form of harassment- but unfortunately, there's NOTHING we - as women - can really do anything about it. I mean yeah, there are organizations out there who are bringing this to the world's attention and now there are definitive laws against men doing it. But, all in all, I think we're just fighting a losing battle. There aren't police officers standing on every street corner protecting us from catcalling nor can they arrest every single guy that does it - and the guys who do it KNOW THIS. Then, there are guys who complain about women who consider this a form of sexual harasment because they say things like, "Well, how is a guy supposed to approach a woman and talk to her if it's against the law now?" and "Why would a woman be insulted or feel harassed just because we let them know how sexy or pretty they are?" and a host of other reasons why they don't feel it's a form of sexual harassment. Then, when we ask them 'how would YOU feel if women did that to YOU' or 'how would you feel if guys were catcalling your mom/sister/daughter' then they say it wouldn't bother them because they'll say guys mean nothing bad by it. Like I said, I think we're fighting a losing battle *sigh*. Maybe in the future, things will change and guys will learn to hold their tongue and respect women more. There's nothing wrong with a guy saying, "Hi" to a woman if she's in an environment that's conducive to such a greeting or approach - but, if a woman is walking somewhere to get from point A to point B, some women don't want anyone to talk to them and don't want to be approached by anyone for any reason. For most of us, it's the fear of being assaulted and feeling vulnerable that is something we have to live with in the core of our beings every day of our lives. I don't think guys will ever understand what living with a feeling like that feels like. . 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Elias33 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Illegal? No. Stupid? OMG, yes! The government isn't your nanny or the principal. It's not the job of the government to criminalize annoyances. Fixing that idiotic tradition really starts at home. Teach your sons not to be dateless losers who yell to passers by and score a date exactly 0/10,000 times. Well said. Link to post Share on other sites
jen1447 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I like your new pic, Phoe! I know, isn't she amazing? Hm, complicated questions to me. I don't get catcalled a lot (maybe I'm too scary but I think it may actually be a bit socially passe where I am too). I don't really take it srsly when it happens, just words imo after all. But there's one scenario I actually get more of that I do find too intrusive, and that's the "hey hey baby, hold up, let me x-y-z" actual physical approach. When that happens and you get into my physical space, I won't react well, and I think that's borderline harassment, an unwelcome advance that actually puts you within distance of harming me physically while running some verbal game. I don't know that I want to see ppl arrested everywhere for it, but I honestly think it should be considered a justifiable self defense scenario, so if I punch you in the face for coming on hard like that out of nowhere and the cops come and sort it out, it should end up with them making the guy apologize to me and telling him his broken nose is his own fault. I do think catcalling is generally disrespectful and actually a little cowardly, sort of a surrender to the group dynamic impulse more than anything else. No one appreciates an attractive woman more than me, but I'd never catcall them in a million years. Instead I show some balls and approach them civilly in safe settings if I'm that interested. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
lemoncello Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Hollaback...that's what the organization was called that did the catcalling video I talked about in the beginning of my OP, thanks for reminding me of it! And yes, catcalling is a form of harassment- but unfortunately, there's NOTHING we - as women - can really do anything about it. I mean yeah, there are organizations out there who are bringing this to the world's attention and now there are definitive laws against men doing it. But, all in all, I think we're just fighting a losing battle. There aren't police officers standing on every street corner protecting us from catcalling nor can they arrest every single guy that does it - and the guys who do it KNOW THIS. Then, there are guys who complain about women who consider this a form of sexual harasment because they say things like, "Well, how is a guy supposed to approach a woman and talk to her if it's against the law now?" and "Why would a woman be insulted or feel harassed just because we let them know how sexy or pretty they are?" and a host of other reasons why they don't feel it's a form of sexual harassment. Then, when we ask them 'how would YOU feel if women did that to YOU' or 'how would you feel if guys were catcalling your mom/sister/daughter' then they say it wouldn't bother them because they'll say guys mean nothing bad by it. Like I said, I think we're fighting a losing battle *sigh*. Maybe in the future, things will change and guys will learn to hold their tongue and respect women more. There's nothing wrong with a guy saying, "Hi" to a woman if she's in an environment that's conducive to such a greeting or approach - but, if a woman is walking somewhere to get from point A to point B, some women don't want anyone to talk to them and don't want to be approached by anyone for any reason. For most of us, it's the fear of being assaulted and feeling vulnerable that is something we have to live with in the core of our beings every day of our lives. I don't think guys will ever understand what living with a feeling like that feels like. . I don't think it's a losing battle for women necessarily. I think organizations like Hollaback! and Stop the Street Harassment inform and empower women not to be afraid of catcalling; not to be victims of it when the city they live in has laws and statutes to protect them. Although it's impossible to police every street corner to protect both men and women from catcallers, I think that having information on how to handle being catcalled is a proactive approach to shut down catcallers. Link to post Share on other sites
loveweary11 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) Like I said, I think we're fighting a losing battle *sigh*. Maybe in the future, things will change and guys will learn to hold their tongue and respect women more. There's nothing wrong with a guy saying, "Hi" to a woman if she's in an environment that's conducive to such a greeting or approach - but, if a woman is walking somewhere to get from point A to point B, some women don't want anyone to talk to them and don't want to be approached by anyone for any reason. For most of us, it's the fear of being assaulted and feeling vulnerable that is something we have to live with in the core of our beings every day of our lives. I don't think guys will ever understand what living with a feeling like that feels like. . I'm pretty sure nobody wants to be hassled by anyone when walking from point a to point b (unless it's a super cute guy you're into, right), but fear of assault from cat calls? Those guys are so lazy they don't even move or try to talk. That's why they yell out, i guess. I've never seen a case of a dangerous catcall. It's nearly always a group of guys, doing something else, who see the girl walk by and yell out. Just be mean. It's full license to be a complete and utter bitch to people bothering you in public. Call tgem losers, etc. They'll get the hint. Similar to what i do when accosted by beggars. I ignore the first sentence and keep walking. Second sentence, I say no pretty strongly. Like "hell no" or "**** no." 3rd sentence, i have to admit i usually get pretty upset, turn around and yell at them while walking toward them. That works. lol Similar with catcalls. Just give them the bitchiest attitude possible. It's in public. They'll stop. What Jen is talking about is a whole different ballgame and definitely there should be some no fault law there like she says, imo. Edited May 7, 2015 by loveweary11 Link to post Share on other sites
Rejected Rosebud Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I feel harassed when it happens ... Link to post Share on other sites
SycamoreCircle Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I used to walk by this house of young college women all living together. One woman on the porch would always yell "Hey hottie!" to me. I seriously doubt she could even see me from that distance. There was a large Virginia lawn between us. She did this every day as I made my way to the gym. Months went by and she still yelled it to me but by then it was like a cashier saying, "Welcome to McDonald's, may I take your order?" Why continue, I thought. If you don't derive satisfaction from it, why bother? I say as long as the person means it as a compliment and does it pleasurably, no one suffers. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Clarence_Boddicker Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Yes it's harassment. Yes it's immature & vugar. I don't get why some guys do it. Should it be illegal? Probably not in the US, if done in public. Unfortunately you can't pick & choose what parts of TBOR to trash or uphold. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Hawaii51 Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I can think of 2 times when I was catcalled, and 1 of the times I was VERY alarmed. I'm sorry Phoe, you should be catcalled way more, and less loudly. I don't catcall per say but I'll throw out a genuine and respectful compliment when it's deserved as I walk by. It usually catches them off-guard but nicely. Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 . I think one of the more disturbing parts of that behavior is that its rarely done because of sincere interest ....More often its done in front of other guys and is done to degrade or humiliate the woman...And because they know the woman isn't going to knock them on their ass(some may, but), they get off on it and have a laugh at someone else's expense.. I cant say it should be illegal, but if it involves some form of intimidation then I think there is a line that gets crossed.... TFY 8 Link to post Share on other sites
Revolver Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Also if we're being honest the famous NYC video was more about pro gentrification than it had anything to do with sexual harassment. There's a reason why all the white guys were edited out, the message was basically "wouldn't this neighborhood be so much better if we finally got rid of those annoying people" 3 Link to post Share on other sites
thefooloftheyear Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Also if we're being honest the famous NYC video was more about pro gentrification than it had anything to do with sexual harassment. There's a reason why all the white guys were edited out, the message was basically "wouldn't this neighborhood be so much better if we finally got rid of those annoying people" I don't think white guys do it nearly as much, IMO..I've never done it, and neither has any white guy Ive ever been in the company of...I can tell you that there are hispanic guys at the gym I belong to that, TBH, do more staring/glaring, and commenting (in spanish, of course) about the women there, then they do actually training....and it shows... TFY 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Taramere Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 (edited) . I think one of the more disturbing parts of that behavior is that its rarely done because of sincere interest ....More often its done in front of other guys and is done to degrade or humiliate the woman...And because they know the woman isn't going to knock them on their ass(some may, but), they get off on it and have a laugh at someone else's expense.. I cant say it should be illegal, but if it involves some form of intimidation then I think there is a line that gets crossed.... TFY I agree. In the story mentioned at the start of this thread, the girl (Poppy) talked about not just whistling, but guys on the site coming over and standing in front of her when she was trying to walk past. Being yelled at in a sexualised way is intimidating. I had to visit a prison one time, as part of a student placement. The guards took me through the workroom when prisoners were on their break. There was nothing remotely flattering about the harassment I got as I walked through that workroom. It was blatantly obvious that the guards took me through that room because they thought it would be funny to watch me getting yelled at. Notably, quite a few of the prisoners looked pissed off about what was going on. I knew, they knew - pretty much everybody knew that there was no point in any of it other than to have some fun at my expense, to embarrass me and to intimidate me. Men check women out. They always have and always will. But there's a difference between checking somebody out subtly, and making a ridiculous and embarrassing display of checking them out. That said, it's not a criminal sort of thing. More what I'd consider on the level of civil harassment. If a person made sexualised comments to/whistled at colleagues who complained, if they kept doing it they'd be fired...and if they weren't their colleagues would have a valid case against the company (assuming they could prove it). So I fail to see why people working for a construction company should be allowed to harass members of the public. To me, their employer should be dealing with it - and actually, if I recall they did in the story mentioned at the start of this thread. Edited May 7, 2015 by Taramere 7 Link to post Share on other sites
Phoe Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 I'm sorry Phoe, you should be catcalled way more, and less loudly. I don't catcall per say but I'll throw out a genuine and respectful compliment when it's deserved as I walk by. It usually catches them off-guard but nicely. Haha, well the only way I could see myself being okay with catcalls, is if they are so quiet I didn't even notice them. General friendly compliments are acceptable (sometimes a stranger might compliment my shoes or something, totally cool!), but shouts of "hey baby! yeah shake that ass!" then followed by "stupid b**ch!" definitely made me feel unsafe. Although I am fairly sure those 3 men may have been on drugs. They looked... suspect, and the neighbordhood I was in at the time is known for drug activity. BOZG and Jen - AWW why are you two so sweet?! Link to post Share on other sites
d0nnivain Posted May 7, 2015 Share Posted May 7, 2015 Comments by random people on the street should simply be ignored. To go through all the trouble to categorize this as harassment etc. is more effort / trouble then it's worth. Catcalls & whistles by say my boss, now that would be a problem 1 Link to post Share on other sites
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