Difficult situation with wife, dont see how to find a way to get through

[Alexean]

Hi,

 

This my first post here, I sincerely hope that someone can help me or gives me advice.

 

Ill will try to make it short but I guess I wont succeed in doing so, as it is difficult to summarize all what is happening: So lets start.

 

Bascially, my wife has suddenly changed within few months, we came FROM planing our next moves (career, relocation, work, holidays, etc.) and even having a second child (we have a 2 yrs old daughter), and basically having a daily life enjoyable and no real problem or issue (well nothing like a no-way-out situation) TO her getting more and more distant towards me, but most of all towards our daughter, speaking about having time alone (which she already had...quite plenty to be true), even suggesting separation, and saying stuff like we have no future, not knowing what she wants, etc...

 

In order to get the context, all started (progressively, so I did not immediately notice or establish a correlation) when she did start to wean our daughter off : first I didnt pay much attention, thinking that she just needed some time for herself, so didnt react or say much except that she should try spending more time with our daughter.

 

The situation being that she does both work and study ( I have been taking care of our daughter since she has been 6 months - I work from home so it is/was fine for me- that is when my wife decided to start studying again : a decision which I did support as not wanting her to feel like once she became her mother, she should give up her ambitions, or feel constrained by new mother status, or simply to not feel overwhelmed) so before the weaning off start, she would still find some time to spend with our daughter, but then she started to leave earlier and earlier to work, coming later, taking even optional courses, going to library to study, etc... well all possible ways to avoid being home, even though in the "normal/usual" situation of the previous year, she would not be home very much..But yet, she would try coming home earlier, would stay longer in the morning to have bfast with our daughter, spending time all together during the weekends, etc...

 

since it started, we barely have no time together, there are no more bfast daughter/mother, no more weekends, evenings, etc...and recently, most of the time, our daughter doesnt see her mother at all (i.e. she leaves early for work, she goes to study or dinner or party so our daughter is sleeping when she comes home)...

 

On top of that first change of behavior (distance towards our daughter), she became also more and more aggressive/irritable towards our daughter, basically like she cant stand her (to be honest, our daughter is very sweet and not very much fussy...sometimes, but thats the exception not the rule), she started also to neglect her (dont find another word to describe the fact that she didnt pay anymore attention to - for example : sleeping times, eating, ...when she was several times in a row sick, she didnt want to take her to the doc - which is usually her "task" as I do everything else, she stopped buying her clothes, toys, etc... well, basically she stopped acting like a mother...no care, no attention, not much affection.

 

Then I did start "confronting" her : mainly asking her to give more attention and care to our daughter, but she kept denying anything was wrong, yet for example when our daughter was sick, that didnt seem to bother her while she got all depressed (like mourning) because she couldnt see oone of her friend for 2 weeks : it was obvious that it was an overreaction, like some obsession, but yet she denied it...and progressively, she started to behave the same with me...turning what was a change in her behavior into supposedly issues we had as a couple...

 

next stage : it got even worse during Christmas, we basically didnt celebrate and if it were not for me, our daughter would have had no Christmas : my wife refused to do anything for Christmas or New Year, by that I mean that usually we plan some dinner, party or celebrating with friends, and of course put some decoration, and gifts of course, etc. well basic Christmas stuff I would say...what worse is that not only she did not want to do anything, but she also made our lives really miserable: spending the holidays constantly pissed or depressed-like...while blaming because we were not doing anything (which was her decision, as the two previous months I had kept asking what we could do for Christmas)...anyways, I did try to remain stoic, as it was the first Christmas our daughter will understand about, and maybe remember one day...so I remained calm, tried to be joyful, bought gifts for wife and daughter (me I got nothing, but Iwas ok with that...) prepared nice dinner...but yet, once my received her gifts, the only thing she managed to say is that it was mean from me, as now she fell guilty...and other nonsense of the same level...ok well, I just kept my mouth shut but it just kept worsening until New Year, she was again completely obsessed about her friend, even though we had 2 weeks off, she would again just try to find all possible ways to avoid being with our daughter or me...

 

Now, that was also the time her periods came back after almost three years without...so I do think there is a correlation as for the first stage.

 

Next stage : after New Year, it just kept going worse, as now, she did completely turn it into a couple issue, saying the worst things ever, claiming to be suffocating in our relationship (which for me does seem irrational, as she has always been free to do whatever she wants, had always all the me-time she wanted, etc. I have never been "on her back" constantly, merely asking for some time together during evenings or weekends), to not knowing what she wants (i.e. like our couple/family has become now her plan B until she figures out what could be her plan A), wanting both time alone but also to go out, do stuff out of the home (which was already the case before : lunch, brunch, dinners with her friends, sports, etc.), not wanting to sacrifice her life for our daughter (irrational again, she started studying when our daughter was siy months, and one of the reason i did support this decision was exactly for her to not feel like she was sacrificing anything, starting from her ambitions in life)...

 

and from that moment, she really started to go out quite often: basically when she has no evening courses, she will find something (by that anything works : some vague acquaintance or work collegue she barely knows has his/her bday she will go, some friend of some friends of her feels like going out, she will go too even though she barely knows her, etc.), which makes that now she is barely home...and when she is, well then she doesnt have time for ither our daughter or me : she needs to study she keeps repeating : which is true she had/has a lot of exams, yet all she doesnt seem to see that all her extra-activities are what impede her to find time for studying, certainly not us, our daughter or me...

 

She also starting to send way too much money to meet her "going out" needs, like she spent in the past two weeks 4 times more money than what I spent on food, and whatever stuff was needed at home...as a matter of information : I am the one doing absolutely at home : shopping, cleaning, cooking (she never cooks), other chores...before all started, she would still help, now she barely bring some bread sometimes (and mostlyy because she likes some special bread which is not found in the bakery I go to), while aslo taking care of our daughter and working (which now is mainly at night, thus I dont sleep very much : before she would come earlier and I will have some hours in the evening to work, now no)

 

 

So I did try to speak with her but she deflected and accusing me to be controlling because when she goes out, I ask her when she thinks she will be home (which is mainly to have an idea, in order to know if something might be wrong if she doesnt come around such or such hour...whatever hour she gives, I automatically add 1-2 hours as she never comes back at the hour she says) SO I dont tell her to not go out, I dont tell to come at this or this hour, yet she calls me "controlling" : I might be wrong but I dont think so considering the context being her barely being at home...yesterday she went from the morning (9am) to mid-afternoon (4pm) to climbing (rock climbing club) with some work colleagues (males), she came back and told me she was going for dinner with them around 7...ok fine...but then she added they would also go out partying (they did so..she came back at 4am)...

 

and that kind of stuff has been going now for months, she obviously has some health or psychological issues, but she remains in denial...I did thorough research and I dont think that it is merely a coincidence that the various peaks/stages she has went through seem to correlate with the change in her body ...and obviously hormonal system...

 

she does show all the symptoms of both some hormonal imbalance and a depression-like (or actual depression) state, yet she refuses to acknowledge that smth is wrong with her ( I dont use this wording of course, try to be both understanding, supportive but also want to make her to open her eyes or get back in touch with reality), she wont go to her doc, OB-GYN and of course definitely refuses any therapy option...

 

and yet, she is always tired, pissed, angry, has mood swings, feels down, but is restless, no libido, isolate herself, has several physical symptoms (weight gain, acne, bad hairs/nails, digestion issues, feeling, cold, etc.) : it is obvious that smth is going on in her body, thus her brain but she denies, and worse she seems to think that I am the one deflecting because not wanting to destroy both our couple and family by not making it a "us" problem but a problem she might be suffering from...it became our problem not because we were the root cause, but because it affected us, and has kept affecting us and our daughter...

 

So I feel lost as I see no way out, her "body/mind balance" might come back, but it does seem to me that it is longer than usual (from what I read), and so if no treatment or just recognition happens, this new situation will just keep hurting our relationship, but most of all hurt our daughter who is growing, learning, developping, etc...as well I dont want that the daughter/mother relationships be damaged because none of us reacted when it was time to do so...

 

If anybody had lived a similar situation (postpartum, post weaning depression or depressive partner/spouse), I would really appreciate some advices, as I start feeling despaired...dont know how to approach her, as she is virtually unreachable, either agressive or on the defensive, or not caring...the only thing she recently seems to have on mind is partying, if not, nothing she seems "blank-minded"...

 

Thank you in advance for any help or advice, or for just taking the time to read my post.

 

Sincerely,

 

A.

[Downtown]

She does show all the symptoms of both some hormonal imbalance and a depression-like (or actual depression) state.

Alexean, I agree that you seem to be describing the warning signs for a hormonal imbalance, perhaps caused by a menstrual disorder (suggested by the secondary amenorrhea you describe). Moreover, there is a very small chance your W may be suffering from bipolar disorder (which has an average age of onset at 25 but sometimes does not start until 30). A psychiatrist describes the differences between these two conditions at Hormonal Imbalance, Not Bipolar Disorder.

 

She wont go to her doc, OB-GYN and of course definitely refuses any therapy option....

You should establish strong personal boundaries and start enforcing them -- instead of giving her a free pass to behave like an irresponsible teenager. This means insisting that she see an OB-GYN or move out of the home until such time that she is willing to start behaving like a wife and mother again. As long as you protect her from suffering the logical consequences of her own childish behaviors, she has no incentive to seek professional help. She may also need to see a psychiatrist but you may want to delay that until an OB-GYN has tried to help.

 

If the problem is not hormonal, I would also suggest that you see a clinical psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with.

[eye of the storm]

Alexean, I am very sorry for what you are going thru.

 

 

If she is having some depression issues she may need to talk to someone and possibly medications. But you will not be able to force her to go. However, you can put your foot down on MC.

 

 

If she refuses to go, you need to go alone.

 

 

If she has truly checked out of your marriage, there may be nothing you can do about it. Free will and all that.

 

 

Good luck.

[AppleKakes]

I don't think it a medical issue...

 

I think it's an 'I got you where I want you (married and a kid), and thanks to the Feminist movement and the courts - I can do what I want and if you dare try to stop me, I'll take the kid and half of everything you got' issue.

 

Sorry, but that's what's up.

 

Maybe you can try to be "Mr. Mom" and take over all the care of the child, home, and finances and let her go work and study...That way your child won't be neglected, the house will remain a "home", you get hands-on control on the finances - and she's free to go do what she wants.

 

But, I really don't see this getting any better...even if you turn into "Mr. Mom", won't be long before she finds some guy at work she "connects" with and wants to take your daughter away and leave you high and dry.

 

Again, try being "Mr. Mom" and start talking to a lawyer to prepare for the worst. If you can start hiding assets, put the home in someone else's name, get evidence to use against her in any possible custody hearings, and whatever you need to do to protect you and your daughter....So, when the day comes and she drops the hammer, you can just ring the lawyer to draw up the docs.

 

Sorry

[eye of the storm]

Anger much AppleKakes?

 

 

Many of the things he described could be attributed to chemical/hormonal imbalances. Or they could be her just checking out of her marriage.

 

 

I'm hitting "the change" and I have noticed many changes both physical and mental/emotional. Because I try to be self aware and I have friends/family that give honest feedback I am able to work with my doctor to help control some and learn to deal with others.

 

 

There are many people out there (male and female) who prefer to blame or shift responsibility for their thoughts and actions. This specific wife seems to be doing that. The OP needs to learn how to enforce boundaries. And he needs to encourage her to visit the doctor. If she refuses, he cannot force her to but he can go see someone to learn how to deal with his current situation and either make it better or develop a healthy extraction plan

 

 

You cannot control other people, you can only control how you react to them.

[AppleKakes]

Anger much AppleKakes?

 

 

Many of the things he described could be attributed to chemical/hormonal imbalances. Or they could be her just checking out of her marriage.

 

That ^^....

 

I think people are quick to attribute the situation to an "illness" cuz it makes it easier for them to "fix" it instead of realize they just are with a bad person.

 

Even "if" she has a mental and/or physical thing going on with her...she isn't taking any measures to figure out what it is, treat it, and/or involve her husband and daughter in "fixing" it.

 

I mean, she's out doing activities on her own and with other men. In marriages you turn "inward" to lean on your spouse - not "outward".

 

She probably never was the "marrying" type and/or care for children and a "family" life and wants to step.

[beach]

She's not acting married. She doesn't participate as a partner in the marriage.

 

Why not have her leave? Tell her family it's because she acts single.

 

 

My gut says she's cheating.

[preraph]

You didn't say how you she is. If she had the child in her teens, then actually this behavior is pretty predictable. It takes a lot of self-discipline to agree to give up your life when a child comes along, which is why people shouldn't do it until they're ready. Trouble is, people have no idea what it's really like until it's too late.

 

It could just be she discovered she doesn't want children too late. It could be she does have a chemical imbalance or something. If she were bipolar, you'd see her being overly active at times, like you are seeing, but then you'd see her deeply depressed unable to do much at other times.

 

I agree the first step here is to a doctor. I don't think hormones can cause all this with her. Not to say she might not need hormone therapy, but she should get on and stay on birth control pills right now, because the last thing you need is to bring another child into this situation.

 

Make her go to an internal medicine doctor. He may then suggest a hormone specialist or not. But I think she may end up needing to go to see a psychiatrist or psychologist to get to the bottom of this behavior.

[velvette]

You need a plan and also the support of professionals and family.

 

 

Whether your wife is cheating or not, that does not preclude some kind of post-partum or other mental illness going on. Cheating on you is one thing, but your wifes total disconnection from her child is not normal even for someone who is cheating.

 

 

If she is in the grip of mental illness, you will likely not be able to rationalize with her so its a waste of time to try.

 

 

IMO your primary concern needs to be establishing yourself as the parent who retains full custody. Not to alarm you, but your wife sounds like the type of woman that might harm her child. I would not leave her alone with your child.

 

 

Call your parents, let them know what is going on and ask them to help you. Get a lawyer and follow his/her advice. If possible, get recommendations from friends or family rather than just calling one cold.

 

 

Consider discussing with her family depending on how they are. There first loyalty will be their daughter so that may not be the best way to go. On the other hand, if they are reasonable people, you may be able to get them on board to protect their granddaughter.

 

 

Do you know if you signed anything that allows you to get medical info for your wife? Does she go to her ob-gyn for regular checkups? Even if her doctor will not discuss her with you they can take info from you. I would make an appointment with them. Tell them the story and ask them to call her and tell her its time for a checkup. She may or may not go.

 

 

If shes cheating, it sounds like it would be easy to catch her quickly with a Private Investigator.

 

 

I think you have to weigh "laying down the law" to her vs your daughters best interest at this point.

 

 

Honestly, I think I would gently maneuver the conversation around to her talking about not wanting the marriage and then suggest she take a break to be own her own to figure it out. Your goal imo should be to get her out of the house and away from your daughter. Would she go stay with her parents?

 

 

If she is in a downward spiral you do not want her hitting bottom at home around your daughter.

 

 

You also need to tell your friends whats going on so you have support, mental as well as help caring for or watching your child as necessary.

 

 

A counselor for yourself would be helpful.

 

 

If you cant get her to leave; I think you have to consider having a plan to leave with your child. Consult an attorney unless its an out of control situation.

 

 

I'm sorry youre going through this, but just try to take it one step at a time.

[elaine567]

I think there may be some hormonal stuff going on but it seems to me your wife is just embracing college life and is not at all interested in you or your daughter any more

Her depression and obsession over her "friend" I guess is due to cheating of some sort.

 

Your little daughter is lucky she has you to attend to her needs, but I am sorry but I do not think you should rely on your wife "coming home" to you or your daughter anytime soon. Her next line will be she needs space and is moving out, I guess.

If that occurs, I don't think you should let your daughter go with her. I suggest you keep your daughter.

I suggest you also keep a record of the time she actually spends at home, her partying, her "study" time, etc. as you may need that if there is a custody battle, but she may not even bother fighting you on that one, but if her new man wants a ready made family she may do.

[truncated]

Some women just aren't cut out to be moms, and it sounds like your wife could be one of them.

 

It also sounds like she is cheating on you.

 

It may be time for to make some hard decisions about your life. The first being do you love her enough to endure this kind of treatment while you try and sort out what is wrong? The second is are you okay with being a single parent?

 

If your wife is as disconnected as you say she is from your daughter, she may actually be looking for a way out. What do you think would happen if you gave her one? If you sat down and had a very frank discussion about the situation, and gave her the choice to either reengage in her marriage/ parenthood, or walk away to have the freedom she seems to want.

 

The longer this situation goes on, the worse it will be for your daughter. To live with a other you know doesn't really want to be a parent can damage a child. Something needs to give.

 

Speak to a lawyer first and lay it all on the table and see what they recommend. It may be that losing her child will be the rock bottom she has to hit before she seeks help, or she may take the opportunity to amicably walk away.

[Alexean]

Hi,

 

First of all, thanks to all of you for having taking the time to both read my post, and for providing your insights and advices.

 

I will need to read thoroughly what each of you has written, in order to reply properly, so I will take the time to do so, as you did give me some of your time, and I thank you again for that.

 

However, I will just provide some more info as it does seem that cheating comes as a first explanation quite often.

 

I did consider that, as I am not the kind who thinks that it happens only to others, or that would see it coming. But frankly, I dont think she has any libido left or whatsoever. I looked at her tonight, and she looks like she is 5 or 10 years older than just six months ago, she really looks depressed, sad and confused...That is why even though I did consider cheating, I cant just ignore what I see, I do know her and well she seems sick and depressed. Yes, she goes out but she is always on the verge of exhaustion or burnout since it started...Why made me think about some health issue wasnt some "deluding myself" option, but all the physical and psychological symptoms I could see, and notably her behavior change towards our daughter, as it is how it did start...

 

I dont exclude cheating, but I dont feel that she is actually in the state of engaging into some affair : her self-esteem and confidence is at the lowest since I have known, she has always been insecure but now it's culminating, she keeps on gaining weight and seems to have no pleasure in anything...

 

I couldnt see that first as I was focused mostly on how it affected us, our daughter...to make it short, I was blind to what was affecting her...I know some may think that I am trying to rationalize or justify her behavior, but yet I dont think she is in full control of her mind...I do think that she is mostly in denial, which would be typical of a depressive state.

 

Well, I will reply more properly to the posters who envisage cheating as a main potential cause.

 

Now, I forgot to precise that we do live abroad (Germany) so any move or else isnt just as easy, I mean I cant just put thousands of kilometers without first trying to get to the root cause, and to be honest cheating would make it easier...but right now, my main concern is both our daugther, but also the health of my wife, as right now I dont see anything else than some medical related issue (hypothyroidism for example perfectly fits the dozens of symptoms she is showing, and usually just few of them are enough to consider such disorder) ...and believe me, I have given a lot of thought, from cheating, to her being borderline/bipolar, to her playing again her college years, etc.

 

But yet, she is the one who wanted a child (she is 33 so it wasnt some out-of-the-blue decision, we spoke about it for a year or so), I did want at the beginning (some 8 years ago),but then didnt think anymore about...until she expressed her desire of having a child... and frankly until six/seven months ago, she loooked happier than I had ever seen her (by that I mean both the pregnancy time and the first year and half of our daughter) ...we went on holidays to Italy, and she spent all her time with our daughter, teaching how to swim, enjoying local ice-creams,etc... well one would say we were the ideal family...and back home, it slowly started once she started weaning off our daughter...that is the main reason I consider first some hormonal issue, rather than jumping immediately to the cheating option : not burying my head in the sand.

 

My main problem is that she wont go to a doctor, it might be denial, or shame, or misplaced pride (like "that would not happen to me" even though she has friends who went through same or very close situations quite recently) : because its true that she is kind of "proud" in such a way.

 

Well, I will read again what all of you wrote and will try to reply more properly or accurately.

 

I sincerely thank you for having taken on your own time to write to me.

 

Alex

[Wife is dumb]

If it's truly hypothyroid, then some iodine and raw thyroid supplements will definitely help. How is her diet? What does she eat a lot of every day?

[Alexean]

 

It may be time for to make some hard decisions about your life. The first being do you love her enough to endure this kind of treatment while you try and sort out what is wrong? The second is are you okay with being a single parent?

 

 

Hi Truncated,

 

I will answer first to what you wrote as you pointed several things which I have thought a lot.

 

Regarding me ok being a single parent, yes I have no problem with that : we both made a promise to our daughter when we decided to bring her to life, and that was to provide her with a childhood she will be able to rely on all along her life, to face dark moments and challenges, to have memories to comfort her and to cherish...I wont break this promise I made to my unborn (at that moment) daughter...

 

Yet, in order to provide you with some context, and why I dont want to reach any conclusion too fast, is that I know very well what is to be a single parent : my mother left us (father, my sister and I) when I was 4, my sister was not even 1...

 

my father wasnt really fit for the role, so I did basically raise both my daughter and I (learned to cook for us, fix whatever was need to be fixed at home as our father was always on the road or abroad, taught my sister her lessons, etc) ... that is why this scenario (our daughter and I alone) is the one I dread the most, not for me but for our daughter...as I do know how does it feel to have no mother...I wont be like my father but that doesnt change the fact that I cant rush on any decision without considering all the facts or possibilities (thus the potential medical condition).

 

You wrote about her looking for a way out or wanting her freedom : yes, that is something which I did envisage, but yet again, she doesnt seem to know what she wants...I do mean she really seems to have absolutely no clue...I already told her that if what she wants is to be alone, single or whatsoever, I will make her wish to come true...that just seemed to crush her...i.e. she seemed to realize for a moment that could be the outcome, but yet it was like somebody unconscious regaining consciousness for a short time, and then falling back into some coma...in her case, into whatever state of confusion she is...and that happened many times...she seems to be in-between the reality and whatever fantasy/nightmarish world reality she is now...

 

but of course, I cant let this situation to go on as our daughter remains my priority, and I dont want to mess while she is developping her own self and personality... so here is my dilemma : put distance and leave my wife deal with her problems even though she might not be in the condition to so, and thus I would really screw up everything, or should I bear and find a way for her to seek some professional help...that is what really kills me, this denial or fog she is in...it is back and forth constantly...

 

so yes, smth needs to give...but I cant find a way to solve it...its not about just taking some hard decision, but taking the wisest and more appropriate one.

 

That is why I did post here as I do need others people insights...after all this time just pondering over the whole situation, I need to see through others' eyes, as I might not see what I should...or would if it wasnt about me, us and our daughter.

 

So I thank you for your message and words.

 

will reply to other posters as soon as I can (here, its already late)

[velvette]

Hypothyroidism is not uncommon after a pregnancy.

 

 

Even a mild drop in your thyroid level that tests borderline normal can leave you feeling so exhausted you can barely function. Something as simple as getting up off the sofa can be exhausting because you feel like you are wearing lead boots.

 

 

Still, it doesn't seem compatible with being able to go out all the time in addition to going to school.

 

 

This is something physical though, not mental. Can you push her to get tested for that without her pride getting in the way. If so, then you could contact the doctor before she goes and give them the whole story and ask to test her hormones as well.

[Alexean]

If it's truly hypothyroid, then some iodine and raw thyroid supplements will definitely help. How is her diet? What does she eat a lot of every day?

 

Hi "Wife is dumb",

 

Thanks for your message.

 

To answer to your question, well except for dinner, she does eat at work, so I dont really know what is her daily diet...all I know is that for example, she eats a lot of fibers (her bfast is all about cereals, whole-grain breads are her favourite and she eats that everyday), and yet she has chronic constipation, which was one of the symptom I did ignore.

 

Also, I did try some "experiment" to test my "thyroid hypothesis", I convinced her that she should take some magnesium for her fatigue and weight gain (which is smth she dreads), magnesium being recommended for hormone imbalance, moodiness and tiredness.

 

so I did start giving her double dose, and within just few days, she seemed calmer, more affective (by that I mean she showed some signs of affection or attention which I had almost forgotten)...yet magnesium is just one of the natural supplement which helps for hormone imbalance...so that is why I consider that might be either hypothyroidism or smth alike..

[Alexean]

Hypothyroidism is not uncommon after a pregnancy.

 

 

Still, it doesn't seem compatible with being able to go out all the time in addition to going to school.

 

 

 

Hi Velvette,

 

Thank you for your message and insight.

 

yes, it does seem not compatible, but it is really like she is pushing herself to the limits. Last year, so her first year of studying again, was quite harder (our daughter was only six months, she had lot of problem with breastfeeding, took two months before she could breastfeed her), we were both quite exhausted but yet, she had no problem focusing on her studies, memorizing, etc. and didnt feel the need to go out...now when it did start it was the beginning of a new semester, and it is obvious that this year she has problem focusing, learning, etc... she also seems that her memory is impaired...and while studying again was smth she did want to do and spoke about for years, those past months she is all about giving up...which is weird for her...

 

regarding going out, yes it is weird as she is completely exhausted but from what I did read, this kind of restlessness (hyper-activity) can also be related to hormonal issues...its like she cant chill or stay in place, even though sometimes she looks like she is right about to faint...I dont know its like she is like burning out herself...but cant stop...for example, she will wake up at 5 to go to the fitness club before work, then after work would go to her courses...I dont know how she does it, as she is really look always on the verge of exhaustion...I worry that she is burning whatever ressources she has left...like she is in some automatic mode...and allocating all her energy to everything but our daughter or us...dont know really, I am lost..it is really abnormal, if not insane...

 

Oh, I wish I could convince her to go to see a doc ... I did try again today, but she has some blockage like she cant accept that she might have some medical condition...I just subtly pointed to that possibility, and first she turned aggressive, then she just fell into tears and from that moment became unreachable...yes I do think its pride or shame, as in her family, they are bit like "nothing can happen to us" while they are quite a messed-up family...it might be some ingrained reaction...I dont know, and that is the worse...as I guess going to a doc will at least help, as that would mean she has regained touch with reality or at least has started...

 

Thank you again for your advice

[autumnnight]

I'm afraid my gut is with beach on this one. It sounds a lot like an affair. And an affair and all the emotions involved can mimic a lot of things. Some people, while in the chaos of an A, are even misdiagnosed with illnesses. If she was TRULY suffering from hypothyroid, going out all the time would not be happening. I have low thyroid, and if it is not treated I am a lump on the couch.

 

The pushing away, anger, then swing into going out and enthusiasm are all also pretty common when someone is in an A but also struggling with guilt.

 

Is there any way you can try to investigate?

[Alexean]

Is there any way you can try to investigate?

 

Hi autumnight,

 

Thanks for your message.

 

To answer to your question : as I did mention earlier, we do live abroad, in Germany...and here private investigators are not really part of the culture, same with the advices regading lawyers, it is not the USA...quite different...

 

Regarding the thyroid disorder hypothesis, I cant provide a diagnosis as you may guess...all I know is that I did contact several specialists and the various symptoms do fit with some hormonal issues : it might not be thyroid or just thyroid, it might also be adrenal fatigue, estrogene/progesterone imbalance, etc... well they all told me that it does fit with some hormonal issue, but cant provide any diagnosis without testing. That is the problem here, not being able to check.

 

I am not completely illiterate when it comes about medical issues : I did follow several yrs (5) of medical studies in Europe, before deciding it was not for me, so I understand what you are saying with low thyroid not fitting...but as I kept digging both in my memory, the current situation and medical litterature : it did occur to me that many of those symptoms did already exist before...i.e. some have been more or less constant during the years, I had completely forgotten as during the last 3 yrs they had disappeared (might be because of the hormone/oxytocine boost of pregnancy/breastfeeding), also when we moved in this new place, I did radically change our diet (and discovered recently that the spices/herbs I use are also used for hormone disorders...and I do tend to have an heavy hand when it comes to spice-use)...

 

to say that I start considering that it might have been present for yrs, and maybe be congenital, in such case, people go from hyper to hypo, hypo to hyper, etc...and of course, the longer it goes undiagnosed, untreated, the more damages it does, as then other disorders appear too...at that moment, difficult to know which one came first and which is subsequent...

 

thus, as said earlier, cheating might be the cause, but I cant ignore what I do see, have seen or actually failed to see for yrs...like I would never have associated mood swings and constipation, breaking nails and impaired memory, anemia...and yet, the more I go back in our past, the more I see that many symptoms/signs were there, not only with her but from the health info I got about her relatives : both her mother and aunts seem to share many of them so it might be congenital, and was never checked as obviously for them that was the way they are...

 

I have (and she too) never establish any correlation between them until this sudden change of behavior...well, I might be just deluding myself but there is really smth here, cheating or not, that doesnt change that there is smth wrong with her health.

 

Anyways, I consider all the options, and take seriously each of your message, advice and insight...it is what I do need right now...thank you...

Edited May 4, 2015 by Alexean

[velvette]

Here's what doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

I have experienced both hypomania and hypothyroidism.

 

 

A long time ago, I suffered a severe clinical depression as a result of a trautmatic event. I was prescribed Prozac which worked to well and I became one of the rare people who had the side effect of hypomania.

 

 

After some time, my doctor realized that's what had happened and prescribed lithium to treat the hypomania. Once again, I was one of the people who suffered a rare side effect of lithium which is hypothyroidism.

 

 

Stopped the lithium. Took synthroid temporarily to correct the hypothyroidism and something else I don't recall for the depression and eventually righted myself.

 

 

But, heres the thing. When you have hypothyroidism you feel so awful you WILL go to the doctor and take whatever they tell you to feel better. I really cant tell you how awful it feels both physically and mentally. You are like a vegetable. I agree with Autumn. You wouldn't be going out on the town. And, mine was only barely abnormal. Actually, it was borderline and the young inexperienced doctor didn't want to give me medicine. I insisted he give me the synthroid.

 

 

However, when I was hypomanic, I didn't want any treatment. It felt great even though I was in the middle of spiraling out of control and into another depression. Im sure some of that was a reaction to having been depressed and the sheer relief it felt not to feel bad.

 

 

But......I was like your wife. Burning the midnight oil. Not sleeping. Hyperfocused on whatever I was intent on. Spending money like it was water running through my hands. Always on. Always talking. Grandiose thoughts. And the minute anyone got in my way, extremely irritable and if they persisted in challenging me angry and belligerent. The main thing is I did not want relief from my "condition" and resisted any efforts towards that. It was only when I physically exhausted myself and started heading into a depression where I had suicidal thoughts of swallowing the 3 months worth of Prozac I had on hand that I had a moment of clarity, and called my therapist.

 

 

Its possible your wife has multiple things going on, but I just don't see her behavior as reflective soley of hypothyroidism.

[Alexean]

Hi Velvette,

 

Your last message is really helpful...

 

Regarding the hypothyroidism option, I did read a lot and did thorough research, there are litteraly hundreds symptoms, which makes it difficult to diagnose as they are quite broad, or non specific, and often mimic other conditions. Also, smth to consider is that some people dont show any symptoms, while others will show few, and others many...I do think it really depends on one's constitution.

 

Yet, it is not that I want to stick to this hypothyroidism option (actually I started considered that it might be smth like Hashimoto's), but I did establish a list of all symptoms/signs which seem recurrent, and there are literrally dozens of them (I use a body map to list them), and they do fit with some thyroid disorder (even though, some are more related to hypert- condition rather than hypot-, thus Hashimoto's or another autoimmune variant)...

 

yet, the docs I did consult also pointed to possible adrenal-related issue, and possibly estrogene/progesterone...

 

but there is smth in your message which really resonated : the fact that she does seem sometimes like "enjoying" this state, or as you said not wanting relief from it...and true, she really seems on the path of burning out...regarding focus, she seems not able to focus on anything anymore, she also seems not able to remember even very recent events or conversations...sometimes I do really feel that there is nobody inside, if I may say so...

 

for now, she shows some depressive symptoms, but it does seem to her that she only associates depression with suicidal thoughts...I dont know, it is really like various things are piling up and her denial or maybe "not wanting relief" doesnt really help...sometimes I do feel like she is like scared of acknowledging it, other time that as you said she "enjoys"...like she is untirable...but her body and face tell smth else...she has gotten bags under the eyes, she is all pale, and she really looks like 5-10 years older...the transformation is obvious...I did check pictures from our last holidays (so last September/October), and you would think we have taken them a decade ago... and she keeps gaining weight, even though she seems to eat less than before, while exercising more and more...there is a manic aspect in her behavior that your message helps me to see now...

 

but honestly, I see her running toward a wall, without fear of crashing...i dont know...and contrary to you, there is no aha moment or willingness to see a doc...she almost never goes to doc even when she is sick...thats smth from her family : like being sick and accepting it makes you weak...that may be a better way to express it rather than "pride", the fear to appear weak or the obsession to never show weakness...same when she might need help, she will never ask anybody...and that obstination is smth I dont understand and dont know how to break or change...

 

thing now is should I let her "meet" the wall she is running to...what other option I have...and evry time, it comes back to our daughter, I dont want to fail her by not helping her mother when she might be needing me even though right now I am the last person from who she would accept any help...I dont know but thank you as you make me see an aspect I hadnt noticed or considered before...

Edited May 4, 2015 by Alexean

[beach]

If she was truly that exhausted - would she be out socializing? I doubt it.

 

She spends time and energy where she chooses to - and that's not with her family.

 

Makes me think she's not happy in the marriage.

 

Have you asked her?

[velvette]

 

 

 

thing now is should I let her "meet" the wall she is running to...what other option I have...and evry time, it comes back to our daughter, I dont want to fail her by not helping her mother when she might be needing me even though right now I am the last person from who she would accept any help...I dont know but thank you as you make me see an aspect I hadnt noticed or considered before...

 

I think much depends on whether or not you can keep your daughter safe. You are probably the best judge of that. If you can confront her and shield your daughter from her anger or rage then perhaps you should confront her. I still wouldn't leave your daughter alone with her as long as you suspect any form of illness that may be causing her to think irrationally enough to harm your child.

 

 

The thing about mania is that it doesn't necessarily present in all people as full blown crazy. I held down a highly paid very responsible job throughout the episode I experienced. I think if it goes on long enough, it does move into a totally irrational landscape.

 

 

I don't know if confronting her will do anything if she is manic. I think it depends on whether she is able to be rational enough even in a moment to understand she is at risk of losing her child/marriage and whether or not she is cares about that or is even able to know if she cares or not.

 

 

I would keep it short and sweet by just telling her that your marriage and her behavior is unacceptable to you in its present form. And that you require her to get medical treatment or go to counseling with you to stay married. Theres no point in debating whats wrong or what she is doing with out a professional involved imo.

 

 

If you have to, just repeat over and over that its unacceptable to you. Theres no counter argument to that no matter how hard she tries to come up with one.

[sandylee1]

If she was truly that exhausted - would she be out socializing? I doubt it.

 

She spends time and energy where she chooses to - and that's not with her family.

 

Makes me think she's not happy in the marriage.

 

Have you asked her?

 

Yes indeed. Where does she get the energy for rock climbing?

 

Is she close to her family?

A sister perhaps? Could you speak in confidence about it on of her family members? Tell them your worried about her?

[Alexean]

Is she close to her family?

A sister perhaps? Could you speak in confidence about it on of her family members? Tell them your worried about her?

 

Hi sandylee1,

 

Well to answer to your question : I would say she is both close and not...I know it does sound weird, but her family would be considered "weird" or messed-up, if we were using some standard "family model"...

 

i.e. : she does speak with her mother every two days or so (via skype), but yet it is not like she shares much about her life or our life...she has always been very secretive, and I dont remember her confiding to her mother, while the opposite is true and constant...with her mother it is like a daily Brazilian soap-opera, she spares us nothing from the brother drinking/gambling addiction, to her talks with the neighbours, how many times one of the grandchildren did poop...etc...I guess you got it...

 

So, I have no problem with her mother but I dont think that would be an option for me, the mother tends to only lecture her whenever she can...on several occasions, she came for holidays to visit us, and quite often I was very close to kick her out...for example, after the birth of our daughter, she came and instead of supporting my wife who had problem with breastfeeding (it took two months to "kick"), aside our daughter had a severe jaundice, her mother first just lectured (i.e. convincing her that she wasnt a good mother), and then spent the rest of holidays like "homesick", just talking about her daily life, how she missed it...just for you to know, that started just after 2-3 days here...and that even though, when she is at her home, she keeps complaining about how much she needs holidays (which is true as she is old and yet has to take care of my wife's brother kids as both her brother and his wife are quite irresponsible and dont take care of their kids(3))...and that has been a typical scenario every time she has come to visit us, like last summer, we took her to a spa resort in the mountains, and the second day she went all crazy, spoiled our trip and then played the victim once we were back home...so all to say : nothing to expect from this side, as neither her mother, father or brothers might be of any help for me...that would just make it even worse...

 

The only person I can think about is one of her cousin, who seems to be the only person to who she has confided (as for the others, everything is "normal"), I guess its because they were very close when younger, and also because her cousin did suffer from a major post-partum depression...but yet, I didnt see any positive effect of her talking with her cousin...the delicate thing here is that I dont know that cousin very well (met her twice in 8 yrs, and was just for few hours / a coffee and a dinner), so I dont know how it could develop...I have been thinking a lot about trying this, but still not managed to convince myself that would turn positive...

 

 

As for the rock climbing question, well I would say that she is really drawing on any ressource she has left, she is already tired when she goes for it, and looks like a zombie when she is back...that applies to all her new "going-out" urges, its really like she is burning herself out, but cant help it...however, most likely she wont keep doing rock climbing for more than a few more times, as thats what she has been doing since she started to change...basically, she jumps from one thing to another, like in search of something...I dont know if its some adrenaline rush she is looking for, all I know is that often homronal issues involve serotonin deficiency, so need overstimulating situations to feel smth...

 

for example, in my first post, I did evoke that friend of her that she missed so much, to the point it looked like more like mourning someone than missing a friend...last year, her best gfriend moved abroad and yet she was simply sad (sadness within the "normal range" when a friend moves somewhere far)...while this year because that woman (a work acquaintance first, they got closer when that woman got pregnant so shared experience of pregnancy/motherhood) went for 2 weeks for holidays and it was like she was dead, or gone forever...it was absolutely insane to witness...never saw her in such state...and yet, now she barely meets her or speaks with her (i.e. within few months, that woman went from essential to her life, to nobody)...

 

then she did replace her for a while with a friend of that gfriend who left last year, telling me that they agreed to meet every week for a girl night or so, and yet that lasted just 2-3 weeks, again, that "new friend" just disappeared...and that pattern applies for viturally everything she has started to do since this change in her behavior...

 

well, I dont know if the magnesium I have been giving her (under a false pretence) starts to have some postive effect, but she has been calmer recently (few days), her mood swings seem less sudden), and for the first time she asked me about ressources regarding post-natal depression and hormonal imbalance - as I did tell her that she should really consult with some doc...and weird thing is that I also suggested her to take some days off and go on holidays, or to some retreat or thermal station in order to rest...and well, she doesnt seem to really care about either our daughter or me so quite logicallly she should have jumped on this offer...but not really, she did seem really scared when I suggested it...I dont understand it...

 

well, I thank you as well as the other posters, I do try and will try to answer to several questions which have been posted, I just need to find some time, as my days are longer and longer, and busier too...it really starts to be exhausting...I dont know how long I can go like this...

 

Thank you again....

Edited May 5, 2015 by Alexean