Red Pill vs.Blue Pill Dating

[SearchingForMyself]

Lately thanks to reddit and a few other sites concerning men and dating, I've come across two schools of relationship thought.

 

The Red Pill: Heavily based on regarding human sexuality as animalistic and based on evolution, those who swallow the red pill are taught huge pua tactics and life improvement strategics to improve personal standard male value(SMV) for the sole purpose of linking a mans self worth with one goal in mind...getting laid. Many red pillers view women as hypergamous creatures incapable of loyalty unless you raise their interest level, which plays into the self improvement strategy and game tactics. To many red pillers, women and men are not equal and to optimize having as much sex as possible means that you must exhibit alpha traits and not become the beta provider. This is to discourage cheating by women by displaying the value one has as a man compared to many other men.

 

Blue Pill: rooted in more societal based individuality, this philosophy focuses on quality, not quantity. While improvement tactics are still implemented, blue pillers are more about their own passions fulfilling them and relationships and sex being just a part of that instead of a major quota for self worth. They tend to be against red pill philosophy because it contains a lot of misoygny and encourages getting laid above all else.. So codes of honor become more competition.

 

Red pillers view blue pillers as secretly unhappy and frustrated because of the lack of sex.

 

 

This is my interpretation of both philosophies, but lately I've been feeling and somewhat agreeing with many red pill philosophies, including the female mind. But I wanted to ask you guys and invite a discussion.

 

What are you? A red killer or blue piller? What do you think is the best way to go by dating in these modern times?

Edited April 23, 2015 by SearchingForMyself

[jay1983]

I keep reading about this sh*t on the internet. It's weird, I don't anyone in the real world who's a red piller, blue piller or killer or whatever.

[carhill]

 

It sounds like a plagiarism of some really good movie making to sell a certain reality depending upon one's personal POV and social or monetary agenda.

[Anela]

I keep reading about this sh*t on the internet. It's weird, I don't anyone in the real world who's a red piller, blue piller or killer or whatever.

 

I think they both sound silly, as well. I'm wary of following any sort of guru, or this sort of thing that they try to pull from movies like The Matrix.

[SearchingForMyself]

Oh I'm sure that its a marketing tactic or some guru like philosophy, but some of the philosophy I can't help but to agree with.

 

Things such as rampant female infidelity, why women are attracted to certain men, how to become a higher valued man make some good points. Its just the rampant misogyny and general ******* behavior that then people away

 

If anything, many guys who are hitting dry spells with women, or men who have been chested on, will red stuff like this because they are hurt, lost, and or in need of answers.

 

 

 

For the record, and I hate admitting this, a lot of guys I know who implement many of these policies are in fact way more sexually successful. And let's face it, men love sex.

 

Many just want to try what works.

[jay1983]

I think they both sound silly, as well. I'm wary of following any sort of guru, or this sort of thing that they try to pull from movies like The Matrix.

 

Like you we're asking me the other day if the guys who think women are done after 35 were real people and worried about running into them IRL. I don't know if these people are real, I've never heard that in my life, that along with the short guy thing.

[autumnnight]

Sounds like more whiny woman-blaming to me....

[Anela]

Like you we're asking me the other day if the guys who think women are done after 35 were real people and worried about running into them IRL. I don't know if these people are real, I've never heard that in my life, that along with the short guy thing.

 

I liked one of these guys myself, although I didn't know it at the time. He seemed okay at first. But enough about that douche - I guarantee that sort of thinking didn't get him anywhere. I wish I'd never known him.

[SearchingForMyself]

Like you we're asking me the other day if the guys who think women are done after 35 were real people and worried about running into them IRL. I don't know if these people are real, I've never heard that in my life, that along with the short guy thing.

 

Personally speaking, my face mattered way more to women than my height. That and I don't go to clubs and bar to pick up women.

[Anela]

I can't remember the names of the sites, but I remember following a link to one that someone had posted as a great self-improvement link. Guys were posting "lay reports" if things worked for them, but a number of them had even less respect for women afterwards, because it worked for them. SFM: it may help them to get laid, but it doesn't improve their attitudes.

 

The guy I knew, didn't reveal that side of his personality for a long while.

Edited April 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Off Topic cleanup

[Anela]

Sounds like more whiny woman-blaming to me....

 

It is.

 

......

[SearchingForMyself]

Anyone else? Where's tool when you need him?

[Anela]

Anyone else? Where's tool when you need him?

 

You could try sending him a private message.

[ascendotum]

Sounds like more whiny woman-blaming to me....

Not quite. While the red pillers do critise aspects of women (not all), just many modern feminists, the philosophy is more focused on adapting to the modern dating landscape and empowering men through better themselves so they are the choosers and not just the acceptors.

[jay1983]

Not quite. While the red pillers do critise aspects of women (not all), just many modern feminists, the philosophy is more focused on adapting to the modern dating landscape and empowering men through better themselves so they are the choosers and not just the acceptors.

 

Where do you guys live, with feminist and emasculated men and so on? I haven't seen any of this.

[blackcat777]

I dig the concept of "inner game"... good old working on yourself to become a better person.

 

"Bad boys" and "bitches" will always be attractive to many, but it's not the bad behavior that makes them attractive... it's the strong personal boundaries. My two cents, ditch the bad behavior and strengthen your boundaries.

 

Red pill has some good stuff about boundaries. Some of it encourages behavior that I would consider manipulative. Then again, the latter will only work on women without boundaries.

 

Self-respect and knowing when to say no, whether you're a man or woman, will solve almost all your relationship problems.

[calvincline47]

I've read a lot of red pill stuff in my time and I will certainly admit that it goes overboard at times.

 

But I feel like the major difference between red pill and blue pill is reality and fantasy.

 

Parts of the red pill philosophy is certainly true (that men get the raw end of the deal in divorce court, that women cheat more often than many realize, that feminism and de-masculinization is everywhere). It made me realize a lot about this world.

 

However, it's not completely right and is a bit on the extreme side.

[Cool Mandrid]

Well, as a lady, I can't say I really believe in either of this pill stuff. I guess I like to believe that most people on average do have a good intention on their mind, and if otherwise it is usually painfully obvious - Shame on you for not catching on, I mean.

 

I can be kind of harsh and unforgiving when it comes to sheer dating, so I start out "Red" I guess. I am not a sexual person, but more of an emotional deviant to the cruel extreme. I like to test out the waters, and often get bored if a guy can't manage to keep me entertained or charmed/enticed by him after a certain amount of time. This often puts me in the dumper position, and I can't say I have made too many guys happy, but I think it was sparing of me to leave them before things got serious.

 

Mind you, I am typically smitten if they DO succeed, where I definitely become a "Blue" person and try my hardest to make the best relationship I can for them, but until then I would guess I am pretty cold at first, jaded and self-centered, hence "Red".

[toolforgrowth]

There's a lot of the red pill philosophy I agree with, but there are definitely aspects of it I do not agree with. MGTOW speaks to me on many levels, and I find myself agreeing with most of the things they say. However, I also think that, like radical feminists, they sometimes go too far in their descriptions of women. It's one thing to point out legitimate flaws in a group of people, but entirely another to paint them as inferior or unable to help themselves because of it. The thing is, I can understand why they get that way sometimes; it's a natural reaction to being told we constantly rape and destroy an entire class of people for many decades.

 

But that still doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

I don't do PUA stuff. I'd rather be alone, and I don't place my self worth on whether or not I get laid and what women think of me. But if taking the red pill means that:

 

1) I don't have to spend my hard earned resources to impress a woman

2) I can spend my life focusing on my happiness

3) I can find my self worth inside myself and not through relationships

4) I don't have to risk my assets and livelihood in marriage

5) I can place the onus on other people for their own happiness

6) Most importantly, I can say no to a woman. By this, I can establish my boundaries and enforce them, regardless of what anyone else may feel about it

 

I really like that message. It places the responsibility for my happiness upon myself, and gives me the keys to my destiny. It also allows me the freedom to do as I please, regardless of what "gender role" men previously played. It's 2015, not 1955. I'm not obligated to marry, procreate, and defer to anyone else's sensibilities just because "it's always been done that way".

 

In regards to dating, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle; the purple pill, I guess. In regards to a man living his life (all romantic notions aside), I definitely take the red pill. There's a lot more to it than just how to interact with and pick up (or not) women. Some MRA's completely eschew relationships and sex all together. I don't go that far. So it all depends on what you find the most comfortable for you.

 

But in this day and age where a man can be financially eviscerated in divorce court, it definitely serves as a medium in which we can discuss and acknowledge this imbalance, and provide support when we are told to "man up" or shamed in other ways because we've chosen to walk away from matrimony.

 

Your first obligation is to yourself.

[Rejected Rosebud]

I think if you are really interested in philosophies then reddit and the manosphere are probably not the place to find ones worthy of discussion!! JMHO!!!

[toolforgrowth]

I think if you are really interested in philosophies then reddit and the manosphere are probably not the place to find ones worthy of discussion!! JMHO!!!

 

Your opinion is welcome, even if I completely disagree with it.

 

On the flip side, this is exactly how I feel about philosophy and feminism.

[Timshel]

There's a lot of the red pill philosophy I agree with, but there are definitely aspects of it I do not agree with. MGTOW speaks to me on many levels, and I find myself agreeing with most of the things they say. However, I also think that, like radical feminists, they sometimes go too far in their descriptions of women. It's one thing to point out legitimate flaws in a group of people, but entirely another to paint them as inferior or unable to help themselves because of it. The thing is, I can understand why they get that way sometimes; it's a natural reaction to being told we constantly rape and destroy an entire class of people for many decades.

 

But that still doesn't mean I agree with it.

 

I don't do PUA stuff. I'd rather be alone, and I don't place my self worth on whether or not I get laid and what women think of me. But if taking the red pill means that:

 

1) I don't have to spend my hard earned resources to impress a woman

2) I can spend my life focusing on my happiness

3) I can find my self worth inside myself and not through relationships

4) I don't have to risk my assets and livelihood in marriage

5) I can place the onus on other people for their own happiness

6) Most importantly, I can say no to a woman. By this, I can establish my boundaries and enforce them, regardless of what anyone else may feel about it

 

I really like that message. It places the responsibility for my happiness upon myself, and gives me the keys to my destiny. It also allows me the freedom to do as I please, regardless of what "gender role" men previously played. It's 2015, not 1955. I'm not obligated to marry, procreate, and defer to anyone else's sensibilities just because "it's always been done that way".

 

In regards to dating, I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle; the purple pill, I guess. In regards to a man living his life (all romantic notions aside), I definitely take the red pill. There's a lot more to it than just how to interact with and pick up (or not) women. Some MRA's completely eschew relationships and sex all together. I don't go that far. So it all depends on what you find the most comfortable for you.

 

But in this day and age where a man can be financially eviscerated in divorce court, it definitely serves as a medium in which we can discuss and acknowledge this imbalance, and provide support when we are told to "man up" or shamed in other ways because we've chosen to walk away from matrimony.

 

Your first obligation is to yourself.

 

As a woman, everything you said in reverse. When I divorced, because he did not want it and implored me to stay; I gave him the house, my car (because he bought it for me) and did not ask for alimony. I moved out. There were no lawyers and I allowed child support to be amended from court ordered guidelines because he was "uncomfortable" with the amount.

At the end of the day, I realized that I was the one breaking the bond. Not because he was a prince, because he wanted to maintain the marriage and I did not. I felt the onus was on me despite causal behavior on his part.

It came down to a decision to live my life without a person that was hurting me and even so, I had to take responsibility for the fact that I had "picked" him. I had chosen wrong and that is/was on me.

Women and men both should have accountability for the choices they make in relationships and it is more about decency, respect and looking at yourself in the mirror than winning or losing even if you are the only one doing it.

 

Edit for bold: Kids too though for me.

Edited April 23, 2015 by Timshel

[toolforgrowth]

As a woman, everything you said in reverse. When I divorced, because he did not want it and implored me to stay; I gave him the house, my car (because he bought it for me) and did not ask for alimony. I moved out. There were no lawyers and I allowed child support to be amended from court ordered guidelines because he was "uncomfortable" with the amount.

At the end of the day, I realized that I was the one breaking the bond. Not because he was a prince, because he wanted to maintain the marriage and I did not. I felt the onus was on me despite causal behavior on his part.

It came down to a decision to live my life without a person that was hurting me and even so, I had to take responsibility for the fact that I had "picked" him. I had chosen wrong and that is/was on me.

Women and men both should have accountability for the choices they make in relationships and it is more about decency, respect and looking at yourself in the mirror than winning or losing even if you are the only one doing it.

 

Edit for bold: Kids too though for me.

 

I think this is great. You divorced reasonably. I don't think anyone should stay married who doesn't want to be. And you divorced amicably from your ex husband. It's always preferable when a divorcing couple can come to a mutually agreeable resolution. Unfortunately, I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule.

[toolforgrowth]

Not quite. While the red pillers do critise aspects of women (not all), just many modern feminists, the philosophy is more focused on adapting to the modern dating landscape and empowering men through better themselves so they are the choosers and not just the acceptors.

 

Great synopsis.

 

I'm not speaking for the women who post on LS (at least, not all of them), but the message men have been getting from women is "accept whatever we choose to give you and be grateful for it".

 

Well, what if I'm not satisfied with that? What if my experience has demonstrated that I contribute far more towards relationships than the women have? Money, time, assets, priorities, all of that.

 

Why should I invest all of those resources when the return on said investment is little to none?

 

The concept that men have options too is quite new. I also think that a lot of blue pillers haven't accepted that yet; they're stuck in the old paradigm that it's up to them to be what society (women) wants them to be, rather than simply being who they are even if it goes against the societal norm.

 

Red pillers are better at establishing and maintaining boundaries. Blue pillers are too eager to compromise. I don't view compromise as a bad thing by any means, but when you're the only one "compromising", then it stops being a compromise and turns into a submission instead.

 

And nobody likes a doormat.

[Timshel]

I think this is great. You divorced reasonably. I don't think anyone should stay married who doesn't want to be. And you divorced amicably from your ex husband. It's always preferable when a divorcing couple can come to a mutually agreeable resolution. Unfortunately, I tend to think this is the exception rather than the rule.

 

This is true.

Allow me say that I even left his 401K and retirement benefits alone. I rolled my 401 into his because I stopped working for two years with a newborn and 2 yr. old to be a SAHM. I had a nice amount.

I came back to say this because even though I have no regrets, in hindsight, Uuummm......laughing at myself. Fme, Bye!

It's all good.