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Consensus - Marriage unhealthy if partner in affair


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I know that we have had discussions about this here before, so I thought that those of you who are APs would appreciate this bit of sharing. I was recently at a conference and in a room full of mental health professionals, nobody under a Masters level and all licensed and practicing - about 50 of them all together. There was a case study presented about a man who had an affair and lengthy discussion about possible treatment routes regarding him possibly telling his wife two years after the fact. Not a single person in the room thought he should tell his wife, although every single one agreed that he should not be in the marriage with her bc it was obviously dysfunctional if he had an affair - and that was the consensus among 50 professionals who are trained in human behavior and psychology.

 

 

Those who are APs, what are your thoughts on this? How does it feel to have that said by 50 experts in the mental health field? Does it change your outlook on your married AP? As a former BS and former AP, it wasn't surprising to me, but I did bring up that there are a subgroup of people who are convinced that people in "good" marriages have affairs and one of the experts responded with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

Thoughts?

Edited by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Edit out discussion of other postings, retitle to reflect content and move to GRD
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whichwayisup
I was recently at a conference and in a room full of mental health professionals, nobody under a Masters level and all licensed and practicing

No where in there did I see "Marriage Counselor." Mental health therapists are there for their client, not the client and their spouse. That's the difference.

 

Apples and oranges here.

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purplesorrow

The world is full of licensed professionals who support all the arguments that are surrounding marriage and infidelity. It doesn't make ones more credible than another's. It really boils down to it being someone's opinion. No study can be definitive for all situations because all are different. People tend to go with whatever may fit their situation. It doesn't mean someone else's 'truth isn't true.

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Well, dang. Since those 50 mental health professionals said it… must be true! I guess any WS/AP who has said otherwise must be lying to themselves and doesn't know their relationship or anything :rolleyes:

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How does it feel to have that said by 50 experts in the mental health field?

 

i know about 50 different highly educated psychiatrists + counselors (i work in medicine) who would disagree.

 

& that's all i'll say.

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Not a single person in the room thought he should tell his wife, although every single one agreed that he should not be in the marriage with her bc it was obviously dysfunctional if he had an affair - and that was the consensus among 50 professionals who are trained in human behavior and psychology.

 

Did they take a poll? Fill out a questionnaire? Was the question posed to all 50 professionals, should he end his marriage because it was obviously dysfunctional due to him having an affair?

 

Did all 50 raise their hands or check yes?

 

 

I just found it really interesting considering that in other parts of this forum there are people who absolutely insist that people in "good marriages" have affairs. And every single professional responded with "obviously something was missing/wrong in the marriage for him to have an affair".

 

All 50 professionals came to the exact same conclusion and muttered the same response as their colleagues? How long did it take for all 50 people to make this statement? Did they all say it in unison, or one at a time, round robin fashion?

 

 

 

... I did bring up that there are a subgroup of people who are convinced that people in "good" marriages have affairs and one of the experts responded with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

Thoughts?

 

There is always one.

 

When you brought it up, did you bring it up to all 50? Was the one expert you were talking to speaking to all or just you in a sidebar? Did other contribute to this part of the discussion?

 

ETA: Did any of the professionals believe that perhaps their patient was dysfunctional? Or are you saying they all think it was the marriage and not the WS?

Edited by awkward
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I know that we have had discussions about this here before...

 

 

be honest.

 

did you really go to this "conference" or did you make it up because it's something you tell yourself to justify your own relationship with your AP & because you're trying to provoke?

 

i find it weird that so many "professionals" forgot about cheating (promiscuity) being one of the symptoms for some mental disorders (see: BPD) & deeper issues.

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No doubt that all the "professionals" who are cheating, had cheated or are thinking of cheating would say that.

 

 

They are human no? No doubt a few or more than a few in that group are "cheaters".

 

 

Not that it would color their "opinion".

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No doubt that all the "professionals" who are cheating, had cheated or are thinking of cheating would say that.

 

 

They are human no? No doubt a few or more than a few in that group are "cheaters".

 

 

Not that it would color their "opinion".

 

Yes that is true. But OP is saying that all 50 agreed on four points. She is also saying that at least 2 agreed on point #5, herself and the expert who made the statement.

 

1. The patient/client should not disclose the affair to his wife.

2. The patient/client should not be in the marriage with his wife.

3. It is the marriage that is dysfunctional since he had an affair.

4. All 50 professionals not only agreed but responded with the same statement, "obviously something was missing/wrong in the marriage for him to have an affair".

5. One of the experts responded to OP's statement with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

I don't know if I could put 50 people in a room and get them to agree on 1 thing let alone 4.

 

I do tend to believe that in point #5, at least one or both judgements are clouded due to cheating.

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gettingstronger

Interesting conference that goes against many therapists that believe it is the one who cheats that's an issue not the marriage. I'm happy for you that you found a conference that fits your narrative. Where was this conference and what was its purpose by the way?

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whichwayisup
And every single professional responded with "obviously something was missing/wrong in the marriage for him to have an affair".

 

So not one single one of those professionals said "something is broken inside the person who cheated?" Let's the blame the marriage.

 

There are TONS of good marriages where one person cheats and the betrayed is shocked, had no idea and felt blind sided. If someone is unhappy, speak up! If there are problems, or if one feels there are, talk about it! Don't go slinking off and have an affair. That doesn't solve anything.

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Hope Shimmers

Never have I seen 50 medical professionals in one room all agree about anything. Even in situations where there truly IS a published consensus.

 

I write CME (continuing medical education) for other physicians as part of my job. A big part are case studies. They are created as a learning tool. Where there is a case study, there is a case study presenter. This presenter leads the discussion in a particular direction, in a teaching process.

 

Case studies focus on issues where there is NO consensus. In fact, that's how they are funded - grants are written to justify that the topic is disagreed on or not done consistently among professionals and therefore it needs to be presented as a case study in a learning fashion. I know, because I write the grants too. It's just fact.

 

So your description makes no sense. There is no need for 50 clinical professionals to sit around and discuss a case on which they all agree. It's a waste of time.

 

This topic seems to be a continuously burning flame due to the differing opinions, and this just seems to be throwing gasoline on it. Nothing is 'confirmed'.

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gettingstronger

Thinking on this, if I were an AP this would make me feel badly. I would feel like I was an escape from a bad marriage rather than someone meaningful along the lines of right person, wrong time. It would make me feel like anyone could have filled that void in an unhappy persons life.

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So not one single one of those professionals said "something is broken inside the person who cheated?" Let's the blame the marriage.

 

This is a good point.

 

Were the delegates at the conferences doctors or psychologists? If doctors I am not surprised. If psychologists, it would depend on their experience.

 

Also this statement by a delegate is shallow: 'it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means". Maybe they do know what good means and maybe there is some other reason why they cheated.

 

Not all mental health professionals are subject experts in marital relationships. They frequently get it wrong and don't understand social pathology. I was in a DV situation (domestic violence) and the mental health professional I went to (doctor) did not recognise, acknowledge, or help me one bit. Victim-blaming is common. Only the DV subject experts I later found, actually explained the psychology of the perpetrator.

 

This is similar but in reverse. They are blaming the overall marriage instead of understanding the psychology of the person or individuals. As DKT3 said, some people will cheat anyway, whether marriage is good or bad. Just like people will stay even if they are mistreated. Relationship psychology is complex.

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Interesting conference that goes against many therapists that believe it is the one who cheats that's an issue not the marriage. I'm happy for you that you found a conference that fits your narrative. Where was this conference and what was its purpose by the way?

 

This quote from gettingstronger really made me laugh. Re-quoting for truth.

 

I agree with every brilliant post above except the OP's, In addition to all the holes the others have poked in the original post, I can speak from personal experience. I was in a good marriage and cheated. Let's just say it wasn't the marriage that was selfish, had poor boundaries and bad coping skills.

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My question to these professionals would have been:

 

If it is the marriage that is dysfunctional, why is it only one spouse cheated?

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So you posted to tell us you went to a conference of 50 shrinks who got it wrong once again?

 

 

Hmmm.......isn't this the group who a couple of decades ago said let it all hang out.....despite the fact that indulging in anger is detrimental to you physically.

 

 

The same group who used to prescribe ice baths for depression and other mental illnesses?

 

 

Hmmm........just seems like AnotherRound of lunacy to me.

 

 

What pray tell is the scientific basis for this conclusion of theirs?

 

 

Oh wait there is none. A group of Masters level professionals who pretend to understand how the brain works and not a shred of scientific basis among them. I know I would be ashamed to be a part of that community. Curious why you aren't?

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I know that we have had discussions about this here before, so I thought that those of you who are APs would appreciate this bit of sharing. I was recently at a conference and in a room full of mental health professionals, nobody under a Masters level and all licensed and practicing - about 50 of them all together. There was a case study presented about a man who had an affair and lengthy discussion about possible treatment routes regarding him possibly telling his wife two years after the fact. Not a single person in the room thought he should tell his wife, although every single one agreed that he should not be in the marriage with her bc it was obviously dysfunctional if he had an affair - and that was the consensus among 50 professionals who are trained in human behavior and psychology.

 

I just found it really interesting considering that in other parts of this forum there are people who absolutely insist that people in "good marriages" have affairs. And every single professional responded with "obviously something was missing/wrong in the marriage for him to have an affair".

 

Those who are APs, what are your thoughts on this? How does it feel to have that said by 50 experts in the mental health field? Does it change your outlook on your married AP? As a former BS and former AP, it wasn't surprising to me, but I did bring up that there are a subgroup of people who are convinced that people in "good" marriages have affairs and one of the experts responded with, "it's a defense mechanism for them to avoid admitting that their marriage wasn't actually good - or, they are just absolutely unaware of what good actually means".

 

Thoughts?

 

Right on. I always knew this.

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I know for myself that I cheated cause there was something wrong, and there still is. I can't speak for other people, but I have heard of people in great marriages that cheat also. I think it varies.

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Lurkeraspect
Never have I seen 50 medical professionals in one room all agree about anything. Even in situations where there truly IS a published consensus.

 

I write CME (continuing medical education) for other physicians as part of my job. A big part are case studies. They are created as a learning tool. Where there is a case study, there is a case study presenter. This presenter leads the discussion in a particular direction, in a teaching process.

 

Case studies focus on issues where there is NO consensus. In fact, that's how they are funded - grants are written to justify that the topic is disagreed on or not done consistently among professionals and therefore it needs to be presented as a case study in a learning fashion. I know, because I write the grants too. It's just fact.

 

So your description makes no sense. There is no need for 50 clinical professionals to sit around and discuss a case on which they all agree. It's a waste of time.

 

This topic seems to be a continuously burning flame due to the differing opinions, and this just seems to be throwing gasoline on it. Nothing is 'confirmed'.

 

Yes, yes, and yes. I work in the medical profession and you'll never (ever) find fifty much less five of us that agree on anything. I call foul on this one. Sounds more like agenda pushing.

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bathtub-row

People love to argue about this because most of them would prefer to remain in the dysfunction. I completely agree with what these professionals said and I've said it for years. Keep your mouth shut about an affair - whether you stay married or not - and admit to yourself that there are some really serious problems if you or your spouse reaches the point of getting naked with another individual.

 

We cling, we hang on, and we call it glorious and loving and understanding and persevering and committed. It's nonsense. It's weak and cowardly. I know because I did it myself once. I look back now and wonder what on earth I was thinking. Most people just can't recognize when it's time to cut out the cancer and move on. We don't recognize it because we don't want to.

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purplesorrow
People love to argue about this because most of them would prefer to remain in the dysfunction. I completely agree with what these professionals said and I've said it for years. Keep your mouth shut about an affair - whether you stay married or not - and admit to yourself that there are some really serious problems if you or your spouse reaches the point of getting naked with another individual.

 

We cling, we hang on, and we call it glorious and loving and understanding and persevering and committed. It's nonsense. It's weak and cowardly. I know because I did it myself once. I look back now and wonder what on earth I was thinking. Most people just can't recognize when it's time to cut out the cancer and move on. We don't recognize it because we don't want to.

 

This may be true for you but it may not be for someone else. Why is it so difficult to consider that it is different for all? No one's way is the only way. Just because they think differently doesn't mean they live in dysfunction.

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