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Is infidelity male or female


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I notice a lot of people, mostly men, writing about how men are X and women are Y with respect to the details of how and why infidelity happens and its affect on the BS, the WS and the AP. I can see that men and women have tendencies, but that is all that I see with respect to gender differences. Others seem to see black and white lines that I don't. Here is a quote that I think if you took out the gender ID that is there, the people that see black and white would say this had to have come from the other gender:

 

He wanted more, I pushed back. Hes living with his GF about 10 years. I love my husband, but he'd have left her for me. According to him I was the sun moon and the stars, to me he was a bit of fun.

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The quote is confusing to say the least. Can't tell if you meant them to be phrases, or a single quote. But those are not telling the differences between males and females, because in EACH phrase the speaker speaks for the other. And if life has taught me one thing, it has taught me that you cannot rely on the assessment or meaning of things that one person has to say about another.

 

I cannot trust, 100% someone who says "s/he was cold to me" becuase that is only the impression one is getting, and is attributing that impression to the other. The other, unless they said, "I'm being cold to you on purpose" would probably be in disagreement with the diagnosis. And so the cycle begins.

 

I am even LESS convinced when MEN attempt to say WHAT is GOING ON in a woman's head, and even LESS when a Betrayed Husband is talking about what is going on in the mind of another BH's spouse.

 

When a BH comes into LS and says, "I don't understand why my WW would do this to us", there are many here how believe they know why.

 

I think you will find that this is the real great divide between the genders. Not the message, but the attitudes.

 

 

I notice a lot of people, mostly men, writing about how men are X and women are Y with respect to the details of how and why infidelity happens and its affect on the BS, the WS and the AP. I can see that men and women have tendencies, but that is all that I see with respect to gender differences. Others seem to see black and white lines that I don't. Here is a quote that I think if you took out the gender ID that is there, the people that see black and white would say this had to have come from the other gender:

 

He wanted more, I pushed back. Hes living with his GF about 10 years. I love my husband, but he'd have left her for me. According to him I was the sun moon and the stars, to me he was a bit of fun.

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I am convinced, however, that Michelle Langely is on to something interesting in her assessment of "Women's Infidelity", in particular her version of it: woman who have been married many years and now want out. Her research is on woman, and her presentation is specifically gendered because she is analysing the myth of the happily ever after which clearly has two roles in mind, one for the woman, and another for the man.

 

Some points:

 

Women have been taught that they should “want” commitment and marriage, while the days of women needing a husband to support their basic needs are over.

 

“Women want to get married, they just don’t like being married,” but they are taught they should manipulate and cajole men into marriage.

 

Marriage has been oversold to women, who feel disappointment when marriage turns out to be like real life with a permanent roommate.

Meanwhile marriage has been undersold to men, who are taught they are to avoid “commitment,” and so their reaction to marriage is sometimes “this isn’t as bad as I thought it was.”

 

Females’ lack of skill (or lack of desire) in communicating their wants to their husbands is a major contributor to their continuing marital unhappiness and to their husbands eventually not trying at all.

 

 

But Langely is at her best when she builds up the incredibly consistent (with stories in LS) scenario about how women find themselves in two relationships, how the are able to stay in limbo doing so (so as not to choose, because to choose would be to end their marriages) and how they blame their husbands for how they got to where they got to.

Edited by fellini
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I notice a lot of people, mostly men, writing about how men are X and women are Y with respect to the details of how and why infidelity happens and its affect on the BS, the WS and the AP. I can see that men and women have tendencies, but that is all that I see with respect to gender differences. Others seem to see black and white lines that I don't. Here is a quote that I think if you took out the gender ID that is there, the people that see black and white would say this had to have come from the other gender:

 

He wanted more, I pushed back. Hes living with his GF about 10 years. I love my husband, but he'd have left her for me. According to him I was the sun moon and the stars, to me he was a bit of fun.

 

For my part, I can't say I see gender-based tendencies on these forums at all. I see a lot of people making gender-based stereotyping claims, nothing more.

 

I do however see behavior-based tendencies of Betrayed Spouses and Wayward Spouses. Specially those in Reconciliation. I see a tendency for weak-willed people getting unnecessarily hurt, and a tendency for inconsiderate people hurting others for lack of true empathy. I don't see it as tendencies based on gender though.

 

Something else to keep into account. Recalling limited research I did for another thread:

 

According to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html?_r=0 [2nd graphic]

 

As of 2011, nearly 25% of wives made more money than their husbands. That means 75% of male spouses are the breadwinners in their households.

 

Given this statistic I would assume that it would be understandable for a gender-based tendency to exist on these forums in regards to viewpoints about problem that stem from financial and responsibility disagreements, that could ultimately lead to the development of other more serious transgressions in a relationship by either party.

 

I'm pretty sure there are additional factors that escape me at the moment, that might contribute to other gender-based tendencies, which to be honest I have yet to identify to be able to confirm with certainty that they even exist. Proper research would have to be conducted to make those claims.

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purplesorrow
For my part, I can't say I see gender-based tendencies on these forums at all. I see a lot of people making gender-based stereotyping claims, nothing more.

 

I do however see behavior-based tendencies of Betrayed Spouses and Wayward Spouses. Specially those in Reconciliation. I see a tendency for weak-willed people getting unnecessarily hurt, and a tendency for inconsiderate people hurting others for lack of true empathy. I don't see it as tendencies based on gender though.

 

Something else to keep into account. Recalling limited research I did for another thread:

 

According to http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/30/business/economy/women-as-family-breadwinner-on-the-rise-study-says.html?_r=0 [2nd graphic]

 

As of 2011, nearly 25% of wives made more money than their husbands. That means 75% of male spouses are the breadwinners in their households.

 

Given this statistic I would assume that it would be understandable for a gender-based tendency to exist on these forums in regards to viewpoints about problem that stem from financial and responsibility disagreements, that could ultimately lead to the development of other more serious transgressions in a relationship by either party.

 

I'm pretty sure there are additional factors that escape me at the moment, that might contribute to other gender-based tendencies, which to be honest I have yet to identify to be able to confirm with certainty that they even exist. Proper research would have to be conducted to make those claims.

 

So... It means the husband is the breadwinner for the other 75%? How? What about the very large demographic where both work and salaries are very close?

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The quote is confusing to say the least. Can't tell if you meant them to be phrases, or a single quote.

 

It was a single quote from an active thread on LS right now. Word for word. No editing. Link to the thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/517619-cant-move-emotionally-after-co-worker-affair

 

When a BH comes into LS and says, "I don't understand why my WW would do this to us", there are many here how believe they know why.

 

Could you not just as accurately say, BS come to LS and say "I don't understand why my WS would do this to us."

 

It just seems to me, more often than not, that you can remove gender and say the same things.

Edited by Confused48
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So... It means the husband is the breadwinner for the other 75%? How? What about the very large demographic where both work and salaries are very close?

 

yeah you are right. I stand corrected. It would be incorrect to assume it's 75% given that as you state, there's a % of households with equal income by both parties that isn't specified.

 

I would find it difficult to assume that it's anywhere close to 50%, so it wouldn't be out of the question to assume that men are still the majority in the main breadwinner demographic.

 

But yeah, it's not 75%, or even close to that.

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I would think it is more realistic to divide people's options, attitudes and reactions based on "breadwinner/not breadwinner" status than gender. If that is a factor. As stated though, in a lot of relationships, it is not a factor.

 

Another factor, more relevant than gender, IMO, is commitment to the relationship. Like breadwinner status, this is not always a factor. However, when you see one party far more committed to the relationship than the other, you also see some predictable patterns with respect to infidelity and the fall out from it. More of a factor than gender, IMO.

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yeah you are right. I stand corrected. It would be incorrect to assume it's 75% given that as you state, there's a % of households with equal income by both parties that isn't specified.

 

I would find it difficult to assume that it's anywhere close to 50%, so it wouldn't be out of the question to assume that men are still the majority in the main breadwinner demographic.

 

But yeah, it's not 75%, or even close to that.

 

Also in duel income homes (where I live the cost of living is so high it is almost always needed) stats will say one makes more than the other even when the gap is small. My husband makes more than me. But we are now both breadwinners. Because we use both our incomes to live. My career track is new to me but eventually I will be making more. That won't magically turn me into the breadwinner.

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He wanted more, I pushed back. Hes living with his GF about 10 years. I love my husband, but he'd have left her for me. According to him I was the sun moon and the stars, to me he was a bit of fun.
Relevant to gender, this quote underscores the differences between men and women psychologically, and psychology extends to thought processes surrounding affairs.

 

The man pursues, the man pushes, the man penetrates. The man is assertive, aggressive, violent, deadly. That's what men do and who we are.

 

Then we go home and kiss our wives, play catch with our kids and pet our dog.

 

We compartmentalize our affairs, in general, not specifically infidelities.

 

He 'said' he'd leave the GF for the affair partner. Men say what they believe, after long experience in trying different things, what women want to hear. The most successful of us have it polished to a razor edge.

 

While the word 'infidelity' may be gender-neutral, men and women generally prosecute it in completely unique ways gender-wise. Granted, most of my life experience has been with MW's; I've found them to be markedly consistent in their approach, style, psychology and resultant actions, and quite different from myself and (the few) males I've known who've had affairs. The end result is still an abrogation of a clearly stated commitment but it happens differently for the genders and, within the genders, differently, to a lesser degree, for the individuals.

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Carhill is right, men learn really early that in the game of sex and women to say and do what he feels she wants rather then what he actually feels.

 

In the quoted post you used (if its the one I'm thinking of without looking), the OM quickly cut her off and started banging another woman in their office while also staying withy his GF. Are those the actions of a man who meant what he said?

Edited by DKT3
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The gender differences I see in the threads here.

 

Woman usually cheat due to unhappy/unfulfilled marriages and are prepared to leave the marriage if given enough reason or incentive.

Men usually cheat due to lust and sex and often say "My wife is a wonderful woman and I feel so guilty for cheating on her" and they often do not want to leave the marriage, if they can avoid it.

 

The OM/OW threads seems to me to be full of sad women, sometimes single who seem to have been led down the garden path; he says he loves me but will not leave his wife, he says he loves me but he wants to end it, he says he loves me but only calls intermittently and we have sex.

OMs rarely post.

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autumnnight
It was a single quote from an active thread on LS right now. Word for word. No editing. Link to the thread:

 

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/marriage-life-partnerships/infidelity/517619-cant-move-emotionally-after-co-worker-affair

 

 

 

Could you not just as accurately say, BS come to LS and say "I don't understand why my WS would do this to us."

 

It just seems to me, more often than not, that you can remove gender and say the same things.

 

No, this is an LS phenomenon. Because some of the same men who claim to read female cheaters' minds are typically absent from BW's threads. That is why it is skewed. The same men who throw around slut, whore, skank when referring to WW's are silent on the topic of WH.

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No, this is an LS phenomenon. Because some of the same men who claim to read female cheaters' minds are typically absent from BW's threads. That is why it is skewed. The same men who throw around slut, whore, skank when referring to WW's are silent on the topic of WH.

 

I agree. The one gender bias that does seem to hold true, for the most part, is that men seems to see it more than women. Men are more often the most sexist and narrow minded on LS. Not always though. Some women do it to. But for the most part it is a handful of men that hold these stereotypes.

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No, this is an LS phenomenon. Because some of the same men who claim to read female cheaters' minds are typically absent from BW's threads. That is why it is skewed. The same men who throw around slut, whore, skank when referring to WW's are silent on the topic of WH.

 

The first reason that comes to mind explaining these behaviors is because of Betrayed Husbands (And Betrayed Wives respectively) ease to relate to each other. Don't get me wrong, All Betrayed Spouses shared similar plights, but there is USUALLY [Not necessarily always] a deeper empathy within the same genders.

 

However, and I agree with you here, when ignorance overtakes the capacity for discussion, and people resort to name calling and premature assumptions, or worse twists truths in an attempt to permeate their jaded philosophy on every thread, then you will find that it is that same ignorance that prevents them from being able to constructively contribute to the opposite gender's discussions when dealing with betrayal. They are so bent on convincing everyone of the "evil nature" of the whole gender in general, that they are unable to grasp that the other gender is just as vulnerable when it comes to betrayal, so they stay quiet, or worse assume whatever backgrounds they see fit and lash out as well.

 

Do Men do this more often than women as you perceive Confused48?

 

I agree. The one gender bias that does seem to hold true, for the most part, is that men seems to see it more than women. Men are more often the most sexist and narrow minded on LS. Not always though. Some women do it to. But for the most part it is a handful of men that hold these stereotypes.

 

I cannot say. I've seen both at their best and at their worst in these forums, but I haven't kept count. But based on the usernames that come to mind, I will have to lean towards agreeing with you. I can recall a handful of self proclaimed male posters, and maybe a couple of female ones only in the short time I've been a part of these forums, who fit this criteria.

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That's the longest description for misogyny I have seen in here in a long time :-)

 

 

 

However, and I agree with you here, when ignorance overtakes the capacity for discussion, and people resort to name calling and premature assumptions, or worse twists truths in an attempt to permeate their jaded philosophy on every thread, then you will find that it is that same ignorance that prevents them from being able to constructively contribute to the opposite gender's discussions when dealing with betrayal. They are so bent on convincing everyone of the "evil nature" of the whole gender in general, that they are unable to grasp that the other gender is just as vulnerable when it comes to betrayal, so they stay quiet, or worse assume whatever backgrounds they see fit and lash out as well.

 

Do Men do this more often than women as you perceive Confused48?

 

 

 

I cannot say. I've seen both at their best and at their worst in these forums, but I haven't kept count. But based on the usernames that come to mind, I will have to lean towards agreeing with you. I can recall a handful of self proclaimed male posters, and maybe a couple of female ones only in the short time I've been a part of these forums, who fit this criteria.

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autumnnight
That's the longest description for misogyny I have seen in here in a long time :-)

 

It's a good one though. Fortunately it's only about.....7. Really only 5 on a regular basis.

 

When you say it like that it gives one perspective. I guess the squeaky wheels really does get the grease.

 

Of course, women can to the same things: post descriptive hate words, give a wall of quotes, fire off questions and tap their feet when they aren't answered within 15 minutes. Women do the latter a lot. It's always a giveaway.

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gettingstronger

It seems like on here at least- women are more manipulative and also get manipulated more than men in these affairs-women far more often say, "it was just sex and then I developed feelings" but they don't seem to tell their APs until it just builds up and comes out harshly, it seems the MM are floored at finding out the woman developed feelings in the relationship- from there it seems the MM have what they need to manipulate the woman and sadly, they jump at the chance to do so-

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Justanaverageguy
The gender differences I see in the threads here.

 

Woman usually cheat due to unhappy/unfulfilled marriages and are prepared to leave the marriage if given enough reason or incentive.

Men usually cheat due to lust and sex and often say "My wife is a wonderful woman and I feel so guilty for cheating on her" and they often do not want to leave the marriage, if they can avoid it.

 

The OM/OW threads seems to me to be full of sad women, sometimes single who seem to have been led down the garden path; he says he loves me but will not leave his wife, he says he loves me but he wants to end it, he says he loves me but only calls intermittently and we have sex.

OMs rarely post.

 

Yep thats about it in a nutshell. My opinion is it comes down to differences between what men and women consider love. They way they experience the emotions and the effect it has on the brain. Men are more deeply connected to the "attachment" emotion of love. They can be attracted to other women, cheating on their wife and have a mistress but still claim to love their wife and they rarely actually leave the wife for the mistress. They prioritize attachment over attraction. They consider attachment to be "real" love.

 

Women are different. They are far more influenced by the attraction part of love. They still obviously feel the attachment that comes with a long relationship and require that for a lasting relationship. But without "attraction" they no longer consider themselves to be in love. Its the whole - I love you but I'm not in love with you thing. When they fall into a new affair and get the infatuation stage - women just go nuts. Affair fog what ever you call it. And men get that too .... but with a mistress its not normally the same. The man will promise he will leave his wife .... but he normally doesn't. Women on the other hand think they have found the love of their life and they prioritize attraction over attachment. They think the infatuation feeling will last.

 

Men are far more likely to cheat in secret but stay with their wives.

Women are far more likely to cheat and then switch partners and leave their husband for the lover.

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It seems a lot of people are just posting their sexist take on this and proving my point. Almost all of the sexist posts you could simply take out the word "men" and insert "women" and vice versa and then find plenty of evidence on LS for that behaviour, active threads right now that disprove the sexist claims.

 

Another criteria, more relevant than gender, occurs to me. Like breadwinner status. People in marriages with children. Sometimes one parent is a whole lot more invested in the children. I think that makes them much less likely to have an affair. If they do or they have a WS, it makes them less likely to leave the marriage. Is it true that more women than men are the party that is in this position, sure. But it is not the fact that they are female that is the deciding factor and there are plenty of men that are in this position as well and then of course the effect is the same.

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autumnnight
Sometimes one parent is a whole lot more invested in the children. I think that makes them much less likely to have an affair.

 

This is probably true. Of course, if they are so invested in the children that they stop being a spouse, it may explain why their partner is vulnerable to an A. It doesn't explain the A itself, because no matter how much one is ignored in favor of the children one does NOT have to cheat.

 

However, neglect is a major cause of marital strife.

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