Cheaters with personality disorders

[Confused48]

Posted in another thread:

 

Major character flaws and personality disorders all cheaters have. IMHO of course.

 

I'm often T/Jing so rather than do that again.....

 

What do you think, all cheaters? Most? Many?

 

I totally respect the BS that posted and BS that supported this but I'm in the camp that not all or most cheaters are so disordered. I think it is all too common to be swept away by the infatuation feelings and go down a slippery slope, one step at a time and then find yourself deep in an A. Or even without infatuation, that to be tempted by just the right person at just the right time under just the right circumstances, that you would fail to live up to your standards and say no.

 

Sure, serial cheaters, predatory cheaters, are likely to be very disordered people. All cheaters though?

[autumnnight]

A serial/predatory cheater at the very least has a deep seated character flaw. Many probably have some sort of disorder or are at least narcissistic.

 

The typical, one affair and remorse type cheater? Nope. Sorry, probably not disordered and probably not inherently evil, no matter how self-righteously comforting that might be.

 

Although, wild swings from idealizing to demonizing a person or people is a symptom of Borderline, so one could ponder whether or not the insistence of seeing every cheater as all bad no matter what is a problem....

[TrustedthenBusted]

 

The typical, one affair and remorse type cheater? Nope. Sorry, probably not disordered and probably not inherently evil, no matter how self-righteously comforting that might be.

 

 

Agree. Not evil people. Not a mental disorder. Just typical human behavior.

 

What is atypical behavior ( or at least against nature ) is actually what honorable spouses do, which is fight the urge to cheat.

[autumnnight]

Actually, I think fighting against cheating is what everyone ought to do, natural or not.

 

However, I think a person who is a good person can allow themselves to give into stinking thinking, can lower their shields, can get selfish, and can make a terrible set of choices. AND I think that same person can face what they did, turn away from it in disgust, and become a good person again.

[ladydesigner]

I'm the BS that supported that statement!

 

Maybe I should say: Repeat cheaters, serial cheaters, unremorseful cheaters, and blame-shifting cheaters are most definitely personality disordered!

 

BTW: This includes my WH who is MAJOR personality disordered even his own therapist told me he couldn't be helped.

[autumnnight]

I can get behind that. Even if it is "temporary," someone like that has major problems

[Ralph79]

I think the problem with cheaters extends beyond personality disorders or character flaws in most cases.

 

I think it's a socio-cultural epidemic.

 

Getting a bit off topic to prove a point:

Speaking for my region, I believe modern America was built on the back of the values, sweat and tears of our forefathers who earned an honest living by doing work that produced something of tangible value. Now we have people earning a living on "air". Flipping houses, bribes, excesive bureocracy, telemarketers...

All these "middle men" are corrpting our economy. But it's something our society has not only come to terms with, but in fact has sadly now promoted.

 

Now going back on topic:

Now in the same way, I think the way a lot of people go about relationships in this day in age has no "substance". They are founded on "air" or "fantasies" because they are definitely not based on values.

 

Gone are the days were we asked a parent permission to date their young. Gone are the days where people "saved themselves" for marriage. Now we have FBuddies, FWBenefits, Ashley Madison advertisements in public venues...

 

And I believe that there is a dichotomy that exists in relationships between those who were raised to uphold the traditional values of yesterday, versus those who live and embrace the "happy go lucky" carefree love lifestyle, that society is incessantly promoting today.

 

What can we expect out of our youth when we are exposed to media that glorifies love-triangles & affairs? Are we that naive to believe this will have no effect on the moral fiber and values of future generations?

 

So excuse my long "rant" but I felt it necessary to explain my thought process when answering your question,

 

No, I don't think all cheaters have PD's or Major flaws. I simply believe all cheaters have moral foundations that are built on "air" with no substance. And I for one find it too convenient for a 3 letter label to classify and in some cases justify a Cheater.

 

All BPD people aren't cheaters. And not all cheaters suffer from a BPD. However true to the saying "easy come , easy go" I think all cheaters never appreciated the relationships they were in, because they never fully and honestly invested themselves to build something meaningful with their partners. Otherwise they would have avoided situations that led them to temptation in the first place.

 

And this is my opinion, and I admit it is skewed based on what I've seen and lived through. I realize there are no absolutes and people might disagree with me, and in fact even prove me wrong. Just my 2 cents.

[Mrs. John Adams]

You know...Everyday normal people can have nervous breakdowns...and go through a period in their lives of great depression and stress....and they can recover.

 

Is it so hard to believe that maybe...a person who is normally very stable...could go through a time of irrational behavior and make choices they would not normally make. Can they then see the errors they made and never make them again? and recover...or do we think that they are beyond help?

 

If you have read anything about me you know i as a ww have never blame shifted. I have always accepted responsibility for what i did. But it really upsets me when people then say i am flawed or i have some character issue.

 

I am a person who believes that all of us has the ability to make a bad decision...and i believe that making bad decisions is sometimes influenced by the time, and opportunity, and circumstances surrounding us at the time.

 

I have flaws...believe me...i know them....and i have done really bad things...but i just really have a hard time with the concept that what i did 31 years ago defines me as a bad person the rest of my life.

[Ralph79]

I am a person who believes that all of us has the ability to make a bad decision...and i believe that making bad decisions is sometimes influenced by the time, and opportunity, and circumstances surrounding us at the time.

 

I have flaws...believe me...i know them....and i have done really bad things...but i just really have a hard time with the concept that what i did 31 years ago defines me as a bad person the rest of my life.

 

I personally really respect you as a person because you are the embodiment of redemption on these forums in my eyes.

 

That being said, what you did 31 years ago, is more than "a bad decision". It would be a disservice to your husband to call it that.

 

It was betrayal. And though it fits under the scope of "a bad decision", I think it would be wrong to categorize it as such, for the sake of the types of mistakes people are capable of making. It feels like sweeping it under the rug along with many other possible transgressions. I've known some people have resisted affairs in the face of overwhelming temptation.

 

For the record how you have dealt with your actions is admirable. And I don't think it merits branding you a bad person the rest of your life.

[Mal78]

Posted in another thread:

 

Major character flaws and personality disorders all cheaters have. IMHO of course.

 

I'm often T/Jing so rather than do that again.....

 

What do you think, all cheaters? Most? Many?

 

I totally respect the BS that posted and BS that supported this but I'm in the camp that not all or most cheaters are so disordered. I think it is all too common to be swept away by the infatuation feelings and go down a slippery slope, one step at a time and then find yourself deep in an A. Or even without infatuation, that to be tempted by just the right person at just the right time under just the right circumstances, that you would fail to live up to your standards and say no.

 

Sure, serial cheaters, predatory cheaters, are likely to be very disordered people. All cheaters though?

 

Yes, a very good question.

 

We (those who know BSs and WSs, or frequent such forums that discuss infidelity) those who are completely shocked of themselves and/or their BS are shocked.

 

I believe there are a select few that fall into an A before they realize or when it's too late. It sounds cliché. However I believe this could happen, not necessarily do they have a personality disorder. They made a tremendous mistake beyond measure and they would/will do whatever it takes to make amends.

 

The disorders come from the cheaters who blame shift, gaslight, triple truth and either can't/won't take full ownership in their actions. They somehow justify their own actions somehow by basicly blaming whomever/whatever suits the scenario.

[No Limit]

Actually, I think fighting against cheating is what everyone ought to do, natural or not.

 

But there are also plenty of people who don't have the urge to cheat. Are we supernatural? A new breed of humans?

[badkarma2013]

You know...Everyday normal people can have nervous breakdowns...and go through a period in their lives of great depression and stress....and they can recover.

 

Is it so hard to believe that maybe...a person who is normally very stable...could go through a time of irrational behavior and make choices they would not normally make. Can they then see the errors they made and never make them again? and recover...or do we think that they are beyond help?

 

If you have read anything about me you know i as a ww have never blame shifted. I have always accepted responsibility for what i did. But it really upsets me when people then say i am flawed or i have some character issue.

 

I am a person who believes that all of us has the ability to make a bad decision...and i believe that making bad decisions is sometimes influenced by the time, and opportunity, and circumstances surrounding us at the time.

 

I have flaws...believe me...i know them....and i have done really bad things...but i just really have a hard time with the concept that what i did 31 years ago defines me as a bad person the rest of my life.

 

*****************************************************************

 

Mrs. Adams...I agree ,we all can and do change...

 

Elanor Roosevelt had a great quote i would share...it has some great insight...

 

"“In the long run, we shape our lives, and we shape ourselves. The process never ends until we die. And the choices we make are ultimately Our Own Responsibility.”

 

 

― Eleanor Roosevelt

 

" We are ALL held accountable for those Choices as well"-Badkarma

[VeryBrokenMan]

I don't think it's a disorder in my wife. I've talked at length about this with my IC and I've learned that affairs are fueled by entitlement, desire and opportunity.

 

My wife has some extreme entitlement issues and it permeates the way she thinks (or did). Entitlement (and her selfishness) gave her the permission and justifications(I was neglecting her) for the affair. She found the OM very attractive(desire) and he was available and pursued her(opportunity). It's really a simple process in my mind.

 

I could never cheat because I'm a very humble person, no matter my success I've never been good enough in my eyes. I came from humble beginnings and I'm no better than anyone else. I have desired other women and have been in situations where other women have been very interested in me. But because I don't have that entitlement and I'm not self centered cheating never happened. I never gave myself permission to cheat. And that is what it came down to, because she is entitled she felt she deserved it and gave herself permission.

 

I think entitlement/desire/opportunity drives affairs in many cases and I doubt that it's any type of disorder in most cases.

Edited February 18, 2015 by VeryBrokenMan

[badkarma2013]

Actually, I think fighting against cheating is what everyone ought to do, natural or not.

 

However, I think a person who is a good person can allow themselves to give into stinking thinking, can lower their shields, can get selfish, and can make a terrible set of choices. AND I think that same person can face what they did, turn away from it in disgust, and become a good person again.

 

I agree ...many turn away..disgusted with themselves for the choice they made and never do it again...

 

But if goes south, as many Affairs do...The fallout from making that choice can be soul crushing and devastate entire families...

 

One may realize the horrendous choice they made .. but.the damage is done and they may not recover...

[carhill]

Sure, serial cheaters, predatory cheaters, are likely to be very disordered people. All cheaters though?

 

If everyone who used deception for personal gain at some point in their life were adjudicated as disordered, there wouldn't be many humans left untouched in the world.

 

I mention this because of the word 'cheating' and what it means. Deception goes on all the time, as does betrayal of trust, ill-gotten gains by nefarious means, moral and legal depravity, etc, etc. The world is full of people and the vast majority of us are imperfect in the realm of deception of others, yup, including those who trust us.

 

The way I see it is, today, I didn't deceive anyone, presuming I'm not lying. Will I tomorrow? I don't know. The future is unknown.

 

One thing I noted about actually interacting with and caring for someone with demonstrated and diagnosed mental disease and defect is that they were completely unaware of their disease and lived their morbid deceptions as authentic reality. As a layperson, to me, it was that complete unawareness of the change, the scope, and the effects on others that defined the disease process. Are PD'ers similarly afflicted? IDK. That's up to brain specialists to figure out.

[preraph]

I don't think they all have what would be classified as a textbook disorder, but a serial anything has some real issues. Chronic lying would be the obvious one, but that can be attached to any number of disorders.

 

I think a lot of guys are just acting out of entitlement that they want what they want and should have it. And I think there are some more like one-time cheaters who fall into an emotional affair and aren't really bad people, but don't have much willpower.

[Quiet Storm]

Some cheaters are personality disordered, but most have character flaws. I consider things like boundary issues, excessive need for validation, poor coping skills, conflict avoidance, family of origin issues, to be character flaws. Unlike personality disorders, they can be improved with therapy, maturity and introspection. However, if the flaws are unaddressed, they can create huge problems in their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.

 

Flawed people, while they may not have malicious intent, create lots of pain, confusion and heartache for their loved ones. Unlike the personality disordered, they aren't labeled incurable by experts, but if they don't put in the time and effort to fix their issues, they'll do as much damage to their relationships as personality disordered people.

[dichotomy]

I believe my WW suffers/suffered from some form of Character Disorder.

 

An interview with Dr. George Simon on "Character Disturbance" - ChumpLady.com

[autumnnight]

Some cheaters are personality disordered, but most have character flaws. I consider things like boundary issues, excessive need for validation, poor coping skills, conflict avoidance, family of origin issues, to be character flaws. Unlike personality disorders, they can be improved with therapy, maturity and introspection. However, if the flaws are unaddressed, they can create huge problems in their own lives and the lives of their loved ones.

 

Flawed people, while they may not have malicious intent, create lots of pain, confusion and heartache for their loved ones. Unlike the personality disordered, they aren't labeled incurable by experts, but if they don't put in the time and effort to fix their issues, they'll do as much damage to their relationships as personality disordered people.

 

In that case, every person on the planet has character flaws. And those who think they don't.....are probably the most flawed.

[autumnnight]

But there are also plenty of people who don't have the urge to cheat. Are we supernatural? A new breed of humans?

 

 

Ummmm...I MEANT that if someone is tempted, they should fight against it. I did not say everyone has the urge.

 

GEEZ, why do people on forums have to read EVERYTHING as some defensivie all or nothing proposition????

[No Limit]

Ummmm...I MEANT that if someone is tempted, they should fight against it. I did not say everyone has the urge.

 

GEEZ, why do people on forums have to read EVERYTHING as some defensivie all or nothing proposition????

 

Don't get angry over it. It's just that your comment provoked statements like "EVERYONE has the urge to cheat, period" which came up a lot when trying to decode a cheater's mind only to finally come to the conclusion that not even they can fully understand what was going on inside them.

[autumnnight]

Don't get angry over it. It's just that your comment provoked statements like "EVERYONE has the urge to cheat, period" which came up a lot when trying to decode a cheater's mind only to finally come to the conclusion that not even they can fully understand what was going on inside them.

 

Sorry, I'm wearing my very frazzled heart on my sleeve right now.

 

I know people that I KNOW have never entertained even the idea of cheating. I think we all have things that can be areas of weakness, but I don't think it's always cheating. For example, maybe someone is vulnerable to alcohol or porn in an unhappy marriae as a coping mechanism.

 

My ex sort of a had issues with escapism, but he never would have cheated. He just wasn't wired that way - for one thing he was a closed off person who didn't want sex, so what would have been the point of an affair, ya know?

[Mrs. John Adams]

I personally really respect you as a person because you are the embodiment of redemption on these forums in my eyes.

 

That being said, what you did 31 years ago, is more than "a bad decision". It would be a disservice to your husband to call it that.

 

It was betrayal. And though it fits under the scope of "a bad decision", I think it would be wrong to categorize it as such, for the sake of the types of mistakes people are capable of making. It feels like sweeping it under the rug along with many other possible transgressions. I've known some people have resisted affairs in the face of overwhelming temptation.

 

For the record how you have dealt with your actions is admirable. And I don't think it merits branding you a bad person the rest of your life.

 

You know Ralph...we can argue for the sake of argument..what to call affairs. Some call them ons, some call them pa, some call them ea...I just always call it an affair...I say i committed adultery...because i don't want anyone to think i think lightly of what i did....and it really doesn't matter to me what you call it....i know i betrayed my husband and had sex with another man. I lied, i deceived, i cheated.

 

By the same token we can split hairs about what to say we did as WS...we made a mistake, we made a bad decision, we made a bad choice. It doesn't really make any difference...the bottom line is still...I betrayed, I cheated, I lied, I deceived.

 

I would never want to hurt my husband or cause a disservice to my husband by saying i made a bad choice....and if that offended you i am deeply sorry...you know me well enough here to know that i would never want to cause anyone anymore pain....especially him. I think he is ok with my calling it a bad choice..and trust me if he isn't he will correct me.

 

Thank you for making me aware that this could be a sensitive place for other BS...I will discuss it with John and see if i should use a different terminology in the future.

 

Again...I am deeply sorry.

[JohnAdams]

That being said, what you did 31 years ago, is more than "a bad decision". It would be a disservice to your husband to call it that.

 

 

I know semantics are often an issue in these types of forums. However, I as the Mrs. JA's husband see no disservice in calling this a bad decision or bad choice. That is what it was, a conscious decision to betray me. It was not an accident. I know some also have trouble with the word mistake as they also take it as an accident. Anyway, I have no doubt my wife owns it.

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[Quiet Storm]

In that case, every person on the planet has character flaws. And those who think they don't.....are probably the most flawed.

 

I agree, we are all flawed. We are a product of our experiences, our upbringings, our individual character traits. I think emotionally mature people learn to recognize their flaws and weaknesses. It's not about being a perfect person, it's about having the ability to check yourself before you wreck yourself.