Christmas decision.... Needing clarity....

[divinegrace]

Tonight I'm writing to sort my thoughts and ask advice on a situation that feels confusing and complicated. My partner of 16 months and I are on a "break" over the holidays so we can step back and evaluate what we are seeing as differences in lifestyle.... I should begin with the fact that I am a widow (not recent, 7 years), and he has been twice married. I have two boys aged 7 and 11. He has not had children. I am 40, he is 51.

 

For the past several months our communication seems disjointed unless I push him to share. I have found myself withdrawing because I don't like to always be the instigator, or feel that I'm being met with judgement.

 

I will be the first to admit that I am an extrovert. I'm social, thrive on serving others, and love to connect with people, help others, and host dinners or guests. He has participated in some of these types of activities, but he is far more introverted and at times has withdrawn or been critical of my choices.

 

There have been many times when I have attended activities and events solo because he doesn't want to attend them. He has also opted out of celebrating some important milestones for me, including graduating with another degree, because he had to work. While I've tried not to let his absence hurt, it has....

 

While I believe some of this can be balanced, in a discussion a few weeks ago he made it clear that what I was getting now was the best I was going to get. He has referred to my life as "chaotic". I understand that it is very different from what his norm is, but little are things I feel I can truly change. Most of my commitments are tied to managing a home with young children -- groceries, cooking, laundry, cleaning, kid activities. The extras are things that I see as opportunity to serve my community and loved ones. Many of these are things I would love to involve him in, but he often declines.

 

Another key difference is our commitments to planning. I love to plan trips with family, and with a family cannot "fly by the seat of my pants" the way a solo person my be able to. I am simply not wired to be someone who waits until retirement to experience life and build memories. I want these memories to be created with my kids in the now. As long as I have the time available and the financial means to do it, I will take every opportunity I can to create these memories; several of them are just to a time-share I own 4 hours away from home. He has mentioned that he's never met someone who plans so many trips. His preference would be to stay home and "relax"...

 

Some of the things I feel are lacking in our relationship are around my own desires. We are both aware of the 5 love languages, and he has even gone so far as to accurately answer my own questions correctly, but seems unable or unwilling to give me the words of affirmation that I want and need to feel important and fulfilled. He has said that it is not his responsibility to make me feel good in our relationship, and while I agree that my intrinsic happiness is my responsibility, in a relationship I believe each partner should feel loved, cherished and adored. I am naturally wired to serve, so I am constantly putting effort into expressing love in his language. Touch. In fact, I often am the one that initiates intimacy. An I unreasonable for wanting to hear that he thinks I'm beautiful, kind, smart, funny... something?

 

It's hard because I do love him. He is good to my children and has a truly gentle soul. We have special traditions that have become ours with the boys, and I treasure them.

 

There have been times in our relationship when we have talked about him moving in, commitment, etc. Two months ago we went to a couple's retreat to try and reconnect a bit more. It worked, but it seems that it was temporary.

 

He has also recently shared that he finds the pictures of my former husband in my home to be off-putting. There is one prominent one, and a couple of smaller ones, and they remain because the kids are clear that they are important to them. Even this Christmas I attempted to leave my former husband's stocking away, but the boys wanted to include his as part of tradition. They have lost most memories of their dad, and their therapist has made it clear that their need to keep reminders of him is natural and healthy given their ages.

 

Finally, he has made it clear that he will not, under any circumstances, remarry. He's called this his dealbreaker. I have come to realize that I do want to be married again. Not to replace what I've lost, but to have a commitment to family and celebrate love moving forward.

 

Tonight is Christmas Eve and I'm spending it surrounded by family, but with a piece of emptiness because he is not a part of it. We have decided to use this as a "break", and then discuss where we go from here afterward. Am I looking for advice? Maybe. In truth, I would like to know the opinion of others. Is it possible that time, counseling, effort could turn things around, or should I rip the bandaid and call it a lesson in differences of lifestyle and we both start afresh in 2015? Let him go and find someone that makes him happier because he deserves a better match?

 

Who thought this would be how I would spend my Christmas Eve....?

[salparadise]

No one can tell you what you should do- you need to figure that out for yourself. However, I will point out a few things, all just highlighting what you've said yourself.

 

You all seem to have an extreme introvert/extrovert thing going on. It might be worked out through compromise, but not by expecting the other to change and conform to what you'd rather they be. Trying to keep up with an extrovert can be tiresome for an introvert. I hear you saying quite a bit about what how you wish he'd be in order to meet your needs, but not so much acknowledging what he needs. It's possible that you're at opposite ends of the spectrum. He describes your life as chaotic. If you expect a man/bf/husband to accompany you to all of your activities, you probably have the wrong guy.

 

You say he's judgmental and "unable or unwilling to give me the words of affirmation that I want and need to feel important and fulfilled." If this is literally true then I can understand your disappointment/dissatisfaction. And if you are a communicator and he pulls back every time you try to talk about your feelings, that would be a difficult issue to resolve. His fundamental nature isn't going to change. However, make sure that your expectations are realistic given the circumstances... if he's communicating his feeling in a understated way but not waxing poetic enough to make you swoon... is it a big issue or a little compromise. Your wording sounds like the former.

 

I understand about your sons needing reminders of their father, and they should have their reminders. I also agree with the boyfriend. If I were getting serious with a widow of seven years and there were "prominent" shrines to the former spouse throughout the house, I'd be uncomfortable too. Can you put yourself in his place and imagine what that would feel like? Is there a way to allow your sons to have their reminders while not having them where he has to deal with it too?

 

If he has "made it clear that he will not, under any circumstances, remarry," and you are certain that you do want marriage, that doesn't leave much room in which to compromise, does it? So let's just say, hypothetically, that he was reluctant but willing to consider marriage... would those shrines to the former husband be something you just expect him to accept and live with?

 

One thing that seems to be missing from your description of the situation is how much you love and adore this man. Do you? Do you want this man or just a man?And if most of the personality and lifestyle differences could be worked out, is no marriage under any circumstances a deal breaker for you, or is it something you could accept? If it is a deal breaker for you, is that not the answer you're looking for... or do you expect to wear him down over time?

 

I have this image of the two of you sitting in front of the fireplace, with you telling him the exact words he needs to say, the innate tendencies he needs to change, and you expecting a proposal to be forthcoming... with that prominent portrait of the former husband hanging over the mantle.

[Tayken]

Hello there...I'll try to dissect this based on my experience once married to someone who had a toddler girl who was there all the time.

 

Bold 1: Hmmm, a toddler and an 11 yr old to deal with for a 51yr old. I can see how that could be going back in time for him. Add to this you are 40 and an extrovert.

 

Bold 2: Yes your life does sound chaotic, and you have to admit that everything you do does revolve around the kids, and the fact that their dad is not with us anymore complicates things. That is a lot for someone to take on having being married twice. In my marriage, I felt like me and my ex never add time to bond, and that in part led to us parting ways after 9yrs.

 

Bold 3: I love to plan trips too, but again my ex always had to make it about her daughter and what was in it for her to do. It was stressful.

 

Bold 4: He is right about the onus not being on him to make you happy. We've discussed this in order threads. Why is it that most women base their happiness on others? You have a duty to make your own happiness as opposed to outsourcing it to someone else.

 

Bold 5: Hmmm...I'll find the pictures too a bit off putting. I wouldn't want to be walking around / living in a house with another man's pictures on the wall / on a table.

 

Bold 6: If you have been married before, why the need to get married again? I personally don't think any man that was once married should be doing it again i.e. do not get married just because the woman want to have commitments reaffirmed and wear a dress again to post on facebook.

 

Bold 7: It sounds to me like you are looking for a father figure for the kids, want this man to come in and take on this "chaotic" lifestyle for the next 11yrs (youngest is 7), which would have put this guy at 62 and seen as a grandpa. You are also looking to get married, and want to continue living the extrovert lifestyle. Nowhere was it mentioned about you doing what he wants, and this comes across as selfishness and entitlement. This attitude really pisses off a lot of men, and the sooner women acknowledge this and stop, the better things might get for everyone.

 

Why aren't you looking at guys your age? I personally don't think you two will work out to be honest. He has a lot to lose than gain from all this complicated lifestyle.

 

 

 

Tonight I'm writing to sort my thoughts and ask advice on a situation that feels confusing and complicated. My partner of 16 months and I are on a "break" over the holidays so we can step back and evaluate what we are seeing as differences in lifestyle.... I should begin with the fact that I am a widow (not recent, 7 years), and he has been twice married. I have two boys aged 7 and 11. He has not had children. I am 40, he is 51.

 

For the past several months our communication seems disjointed unless I push him to share. I have found myself withdrawing because I don't like to always be the instigator, or feel that I'm being met with judgement.

 

I will be the first to admit that I am an extrovert. I'm social, thrive on serving others, and love to connect with people, help others, and host dinners or guests. He has participated in some of these types of activities, but he is far more introverted and at times has withdrawn or been critical of my choices.

 

There have been many times when I have attended activities and events solo because he doesn't want to attend them. He has also opted out of celebrating some important milestones for me, including graduating with another degree, because he had to work. While I've tried not to let his absence hurt, it has....

 

While I believe some of this can be balanced, in a discussion a few weeks ago he made it clear that what I was getting now was the best I was going to get. He has referred to my life as "chaotic". I understand that it is very different from what his norm is, but little are things I feel I can truly change. Most of my commitments are tied to managing a home with young children -- groceries, cooking, laundry, cleaning, kid activities. The extras are things that I see as opportunity to serve my community and loved ones. Many of these are things I would love to involve him in, but he often declines.

 

Another key difference is our commitments to planning. I love to plan trips with family, and with a family cannot "fly by the seat of my pants" the way a solo person my be able to. I am simply not wired to be someone who waits until retirement to experience life and build memories. I want these memories to be created with my kids in the now. As long as I have the time available and the financial means to do it, I will take every opportunity I can to create these memories; several of them are just to a time-share I own 4 hours away from home. He has mentioned that he's never met someone who plans so many trips. His preference would be to stay home and "relax"...

 

Some of the things I feel are lacking in our relationship are around my own desires. We are both aware of the 5 love languages, and he has even gone so far as to accurately answer my own questions correctly, but seems unable or unwilling to give me the words of affirmation that I want and need to feel important and fulfilled. He has said that it is not his responsibility to make me feel good in our relationship, and while I agree that my intrinsic happiness is my responsibility, in a relationship I believe each partner should feel loved, cherished and adored. I am naturally wired to serve, so I am constantly putting effort into expressing love in his language. Touch. In fact, I often am the one that initiates intimacy. An I unreasonable for wanting to hear that he thinks I'm beautiful, kind, smart, funny... something?

 

It's hard because I do love him. He is good to my children and has a truly gentle soul. We have special traditions that have become ours with the boys, and I treasure them.

 

There have been times in our relationship when we have talked about him moving in, commitment, etc. Two months ago we went to a couple's retreat to try and reconnect a bit more. It worked, but it seems that it was temporary.

 

He has also recently shared that he finds the pictures of my former husband in my home to be off-putting. There is one prominent one, and a couple of smaller ones, and they remain because the kids are clear that they are important to them. Even this Christmas I attempted to leave my former husband's stocking away, but the boys wanted to include his as part of tradition. They have lost most memories of their dad, and their therapist has made it clear that their need to keep reminders of him is natural and healthy given their ages.

 

Finally, he has made it clear that he will not, under any circumstances, remarry. He's called this his dealbreaker. I have come to realize that I do want to be married again. Not to replace what I've lost, but to have a commitment to family and celebrate love moving forward.

 

Tonight is Christmas Eve and I'm spending it surrounded by family, but with a piece of emptiness because he is not a part of it. We have decided to use this as a "break", and then discuss where we go from here afterward. Am I looking for advice? Maybe. In truth, I would like to know the opinion of others. Is it possible that time, counseling, effort could turn things around, or should I rip the bandaid and call it a lesson in differences of lifestyle and we both start afresh in 2015? Let him go and find someone that makes him happier because he deserves a better match?

 

Who thought this would be how I would spend my Christmas Eve....?

Edited December 25, 2014 by Tayken

[CaliGypsy]

I didn't take away that you were asking him to make you happy. You were expressing a need and I don't see anything wrong with that. Happiness doesn't exist in a vacuum, it's the sum of many things in your life. Yes, it's up to you to choose people, and work , and experiences that contribute to your life. If this man is not an addition, you need to subtract him. Being with the wrong person can certainly cause unhappiness.

 

For your verbal need I know that it's not just him that you need that from, however he's someone you aren't getting that from. I know for me ? It's meaningful as well to hear words of affirmation from my family and my friends. I expect no less from my partner and I expect no less from myself either.

[Davey L]

Would you be happy doing less things together? My wife and I are very different with little in common. Now late 40s we have somehow settled into an unstated compromise. I have little interest in spending long holidays (weeks) with various of her extended family around the world, preferring to visit for a couple of days only. So most of our holidays we spend apart. It's OK, it also gives me time on my own which I have come to appreciate.

 

I can see that he would feel a bit disturbed by pictures of your husband around the house. It would not much bother me but I can see that it would for some others. Could these be restricted to just one room in the house? So that he doesn't have to see them all the time and everywhere?

[kenmore]

Hi Divinegrace,

 

I am a fellow widow(er) of seven years too.

 

I had the "shrines", the many photos (my family got lots framed for her wake) and cherished items around the house, and when I met my current wife, she put up with them for awhile. She made it clear one day though that she wasn't happy having them around.

 

While I did not have small children around to worry about like you do, I did have a teenage daughter, but she didn't need them like your children do, so I put them all away as a courtesy. I thought it was something I needed to do for her, and in the long run, it helped me as well. It was a good move.

 

Perhaps you should ask your children if it's still important anymore, explaining that everyone needs to move on eventually. If not, then maybe the photos and memorabilia can reside in the kid's room(s)? I mean this with the best intentions as someone who has been in a similar position as you, but putting up a stocking for deceased dad after seven years is pretty extreme!

 

Otherwise, as salparadise said, if the marriage thing is as set in concrete with both of you as you say, then ultimately that is a showstopper. I feel the same way you do about marriage, and don't think I will ever be in a LTR without being married. I think one of the things my current wife has in mind would be to divorce, and still "see each other", and I don't know if I can take that step backward (as I would see it) and want to go on with it, but I guess I can't make that decision until the time comes.

 

I apologize for talking about me, I find myself doing that. Reading your post, my feelings were that he sounds like he really won't work with you nor compromise and I don't see how you could ever be happy, but it must be your decision to make. Good luck and peace!

 

Ken

 

PS, even if you end it, you need to strongly consider taking those photos down and stop with the stocking. Just sayin'

[ktya]

OP,

 

A few things I gleaned from your post.

 

Your former husband seems to loom large in your life after 7 years. The pictures, the stocking, the traditions with your children. I beleive he looms even larger than you describe. This to me would be very off putting, almost like Id have a girlfriend who was married and her husband was just away for an extended amount of time. While I do not suggest that the topic of your former husband become off limits I think what you are doing is very unhealthy for yourself and your kids.

 

Id suggest you take down the pictures and keep them in a treasured album. Stop with the stocking and involving him in family traditions. Stop bringing him up except at more appropriate times, like the anniversary of his passing.

 

On the subject of your boyfriend remember a few things. He has never had children. So your life with kids and all will appear to him to be quite busy and chaotic. At 51 he also is resigned to who he is and his life and likely has no desire to change. After being married twice and going through the process of divorce twice, his desire to change for a woman is likely completely spent.

 

On the solo trips remember that he likely likes to just keep his regular routine. My ex fiancee was a traveller and her constant demands that i spend oodles of money on airfares or that we go out a lot of places was a constant source of conflict. I was running a small business and wanted to conserve cash, i would much enjoy a nice dinner at home better.

 

When it comes to those words of affirmation that you seek try to remember that those just do not come naturally to him. He probably shows you how he appreciates you in many other ways, probably by doing things for you.

 

But if i were him, the stuff with your late husband would be very off putting and it would make me very uncomfortable.