isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (A guy friend is complaining to me about women and "friend-zoning" and how tough guys have it. It made me think of this) Can we just accept that it's not only men who desire someone who isn't romantically interested in them even if they meet every quality they claim to be looking for? Who has seen a guy they had interest in put up with girl after girl treat them like excrement, girls who are not as intelligent, or kind, or whatever other quality they say is important, and then that same guy not really be interested in the girl that is better to them? And that it sucks for everyone to be told how awesome they are and have all the qualities that make them "perfect" listed off with the implicit "but not for me" hanging on the end? Seriously, I've been "friend-zoned" several times with guys I started dating. The guys have turned out to be pretty good friends. I talk to most of them most days, and support their endeavors and they support mine, whatever. We talk about life; we talk about dating and give each other advice. It doesn't really hurt me once we are friends (only initially- I get over it- and I wouldn't be friends with someone if it was emotionally unhealthy for me and I couldn't handle it or if I was holding hope for them, regardless of my initial intentions.) They've actually turned out to be pretty good friends. Before anyone indicates it, there is no sex on the table and no attempts for that on their part, and I am not ugly and no one would think otherwise. The biggest concession I can make is that I'm primarily attracted to extremely intelligent, sensitive men and might not be stereotypical men. I think there's a high proportion of single people in general who chase more and get more interested when they're being mistreated and/or don't know what's really important to them and say what they think they want but don't have a good understanding of what they really want. Also, even if you match every bullet point on paper, people are not obligated to want you for any reason - whether it's their own dysfunction or just none of that elusive chemistry or something missing they hadn't realized they needed... but if you're a pretty cool person, of course they want to be your friend. The "friend zone" terminology is annoying in what it represents there. But for real, let's stop acting like men all have it one way and women all have it another (unless there's something seriously wrong with them.) It's just not true. It's dating. Of course it doesn't work out; Human relationships have never been simple. No use grousing about it, really, but when you do feel like complaining at least recognize it's not a gender war issue. It's a dating issue. Because guess what, men aren't from Mars and women aren't from Venus, we're all just a bunch of strange apes going about our mating rituals hoping for more and running into the same issues. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I dont think you understand what the "friend-zone" is. You think you have experienced it, but you havent The "friend-zone" doesnt mean that you become friends with someone you love. When a guy is locked in the friend-zone, he has romantic feelings for the girl, and she has none of those feelings for him. - If a guy is just a platonic friend with his ex, that is not a "friend-zone" situation. Humans are also not apes, Distant cousins maybe, but not. Also men and women are not the same, generally speaking. Chemically and physically speaking, men and women are different Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 I dont think you understand what the "friend-zone" is. You think you have experienced it, but you havent The "friend-zone" doesnt mean that you become friends with someone you love. When a guy is locked in the friend-zone, he has romantic feelings for the girl, and she has none of those feelings for him. - If a guy is just a platonic friend with his ex, that is not a "friend-zone" situation. I'm not talking about friends with exes. I'm talking about romantic feelings for someone who is either a friend or who I've gone an a few dates with to see if anything would happen, and the do not reciprocate. And they tell you how perfect you are and how you have everything but only want to be friends. It is different how? Because guys emotions are special, or does whining about it make you special? And men and women are not that different in that the individual differences between one to another are far greater than supposed generalizations of biology -which is why you have a wide range on the spectrum of gender more so than biological sex. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Handsome Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Nah. Men and women are different. Guys friend zone because they aren't physically attracted to a girl and girls friend zone because of 25733687 different reasons. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
callingyouuu Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Can we just accept that it's not only men who desire someone who isn't romantically interested in them even if they meet every quality they claim to be looking for? I completely agree with you that the friendzone exists on either side, but I wasn't aware that this was a controversy. Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Nah. Men and women are different. Guys friend zone because they aren't physically attracted to a girl and girls friend zone because of 25733687 different reasons. That's just not always the case. Although even if it were, it doesn't change the experience that someone is having.... but still, it's not. Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 I completely agree with you that the friendzone exists on either side, but I wasn't aware that this was a controversy. You weren't? Read the other comment. Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) I'm not talking about friends with exes. I'm talking about romantic feelings for someone who is either a friend or who I've gone an a few dates with to see if anything would happen, and the do not reciprocate. And they tell you how perfect you are and how you have everything but only want to be friends. What you describe is not the "friend-zone" - Youre describing someone just not being compatible with you and wanting to be friends, and you accepting that. "The friend-zone" is you are actually a friend with your romantic interest, and fiending to get with that person, but that person has no romantic interest in you. These feelings are strong, and they are a secret. - That is the "friend-zone" Edited September 16, 2014 by a LoveShack.org Moderator Fixed quote Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 "The friend-zone" is you are actually a friend with your romantic interest, and fiending to get with that person, but that person has no romantic interest in you. These feelings are strong, and they are a secret. - That is the "friend-zone" I have romantic interest. I would still date these guys if it were an option. I don't lie and pretend to be a friend when I'm not... though if that is the case, that you must really have no interest in the person except for what you gain by sleeping with them or romantically being involved, then the friend zone is entirely self-imposed and no one should ever complain about being there. Because you either don't tell them you like them so they give you a chance, or it automatically is not friendzone when they reject you, it becomes friends. Is that the case? It's not developing feelings, confessing them, and being shot down and restricted to that henceforth? Or do we have changing definitions to fit whatever preconceptions we have about who is subject? Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 The last guy who did it in my personal experience actually used the term friend-zone in his rejection. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 I am 100% sure that this is the "friend-zone" The guy, usually, is such a wuss that he cant tell the girl that he likes her. He just hangs around with her like a gay best-friend. Youre friend that was complaining about that, is probably a wuss. Men and women are very different, whether you want to believe that or not Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Men and women are very different, whether you want to believe that or not Do you have any actual evidence for this? I have seen none that does not show far more difference from individuals than across sex lines. (Which makes sense because saying men and women are different ignores the range of gender expression. ) I'm not saying there is no socialization differences, but how each is born and what the experience can seriously pale those far too much to say men are like this and women are like this as a definitive statement. Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 I am 100% sure that this is the "friend-zone" The guy, usually, is such a wuss that he cant tell the girl that he likes her. He just hangs around with her like a gay best-friend. Youre friend that was complaining about that, is probably a wuss. My friend did tell her and after her telling him what a great guy he was and complaining about all other guys, she rejected him. That is what he was talking about. The way you are redefining it means NO ONE is ever in the friendzone unless they are too scared to confess the feelings which is not how I've heard it or seen it used here by guys desperately worried one action or another will move them out of the mythical promised land into the friendzone never to escape. Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 My friend did tell her and after her telling him what a great guy he was and complaining about all other guys, she rejected him. That is what he was talking about. The way you are redefining it means NO ONE is ever in the friendzone unless they are too scared to confess the feelings which is not how I've heard it or seen it used here by guys desperately worried one action or another will move them out of the mythical promised land into the friendzone never to escape. People in the "Friend-zone" can confess (like your friend did) but after that its too late. Then they're either back in the friend-zone again, or more commonly, not friends at all anymore. There is no redefining here, this is what it is. What you mentioned before. 2 people going oing and 1 deciding to be friends, and other just accepting it. Is certainly NOT the friend-zone. In the friend-zone one of the parties is romantically still involved Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 My friend did tell her and after her telling him what a great guy he was and complaining about all other guys, she rejected him. That is what he was talking about. The way you are redefining it means NO ONE is ever in the friendzone unless they are too scared to confess the feelings which is not how I've heard it or seen it used here by guys desperately worried one action or another will move them out of the mythical promised land into the friendzone never to escape. More specifically. What straight men and women seek romantically, is different Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) People in the "Friend-zone" can confess (like your friend did) but after that its too late. Then they're either back in the friend-zone again, or more commonly, not friends at all anymore. There is no redefining here, this is what it is. This is no different from what I'm talking about. WIKI "friend zone refers to a platonic relationship wherein one person, most commonly a man, wishes to enter into a romantic or sexual relationship, while the other does not" All true. And I admit it sucks to hear them complain about the crappy ways other people treat them before and after they reject you, though it doesn't influence how I act towards a friend. If it does, and you stay there being angry, you're not a nice person. I Edited September 16, 2014 by isisisweeping 1 Link to post Share on other sites
chimpanA-2-chimpanZ Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 (edited) This isn't going to win me any "like"s, but whatever. The "friend zone" is an inherently misogynistic concept that faults women for daring to have romantic preferences. Nowadays in America, women no longer have to rely on men for their livelihoods. They are capable of holding down jobs and they can have perfectly platonic relationships where they interact on a professional, social, or otherwise not-sexual level. Some men haven't gotten the memo. They still divide all women into three categories: "ladies I want to bang", "ladies I don't want to bang", and "ladies I don't think about banging because they're relatives". And the idea that women now have the ability to reject their overtures while still caring about them as a person makes them steaming mad. When guys complain about the "friend zone", what they're really saying (whether they're aware of it or not) is that they deserve to be treated as a suitor no matter what. It doesn't matter whether she is or isn't attracted to that person; HE'S romantically interested, and how DARE she see him as anything less as a potential lover. He sees her perfectly ordinary self-determination as a crushing blow to his manhood. It is the seething, impotent, Cheetos-scented rage of a manchild with a bruised ego. Edited September 16, 2014 by chimpanA-2-chimpanZ 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Assasda Posted September 18, 2014 Share Posted September 18, 2014 This isn't going to win me any "like"s, but whatever. The "friend zone" is an inherently misogynistic concept that faults women for daring to have romantic preferences. Nowadays in America, women no longer have to rely on men for their livelihoods. They are capable of holding down jobs and they can have perfectly platonic relationships where they interact on a professional, social, or otherwise not-sexual level. Some men haven't gotten the memo. They still divide all women into three categories: "ladies I want to bang", "ladies I don't want to bang", and "ladies I don't think about banging because they're relatives". And the idea that women now have the ability to reject their overtures while still caring about them as a person makes them steaming mad. When guys complain about the "friend zone", what they're really saying (whether they're aware of it or not) is that they deserve to be treated as a suitor no matter what. It doesn't matter whether she is or isn't attracted to that person; HE'S romantically interested, and how DARE she see him as anything less as a potential lover. He sees her perfectly ordinary self-determination as a crushing blow to his manhood. It is the seething, impotent, Cheetos-scented rage of a manchild with a bruised ego. Obviously you dont know what misogyny is. With the friend-zone it is the absolute opposite. Guys put the women so high on the pedestal that most of them cant even tell the women that they like them. - That is why they call it the friend-zone in the first place. The man worships this woman. So he puts up with hearing about her exs, and all about her emotions, just to be around her. Definately not misogynistic. Its never good to throw around words like that Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 18, 2014 Author Share Posted September 18, 2014 I think I was premature accepting this most recent one staying as a friend without a long break. I am great at emotional partitioning, but watching him hit on another girl while we were hanging out broke my dang heart. Looks like I'll have to say I can't handle it this time. Link to post Share on other sites
OwMyEyeball Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The term "friend zone" was developed by guys, for guys, to explain an emotional situation that women have always been aware of and been able to deal with much better than men. I don't know if it's because guys have a much more powerful yearning for their romantic interest or because women have developed the emotional maturity to move past it with theirs. Probably a bit of both. Generally speaking, of course Link to post Share on other sites
salparadise Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The reason the dynamic is different is because traditionally men are the pursuers and providers of resources, and women are pursued and the recipient of resources. Women may encourage the pursuit of multiple men because they thrive on male attention and like knowing they have backup suitors on standby. It is an effective strategy to ensure a continuous supply of resources. Although rationalizations are many, the underlying strategy is one of prioritizing and preserving multiple opportunities until the best one is secured. And even then keeping someone in reserve is good insurance. For men, the severe opportunity cost of focusing attention and resources on a woman who refuses to have sex makes it a losing proposition. A man with options doesn't waste his precious time on an possibility that may never come to fruition––he moves on and uses his resources where there is high probability of success. So a woman who encourages friendzone males to keep trying is much more rational than a male who submits to the friendzone. She is optimizing her chances for success while he is squandering his. But a truly confident woman knows that she can always find another guy, and that confidence obviates the need. And likewise, a truly confident guy knows that he can always get women so he won't be inclined to allow himself to be put on hold. Bottom line... the friendzone is for men and women who aren't very confident of their own potential. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author isisisweeping Posted September 19, 2014 Author Share Posted September 19, 2014 I like how in the comment, if a man is "in the friendzone", it is the fault of a conniving woman, not the man, but if a woman is, it's her fault for lack of confidence or something, and not the man's. If in fact, I guess, a woman can be ... because she can't! Because! Because I will simply define it that way! No true Scotsman! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
FeuFollet Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 Men and women have the right to seek happiness and fulfillment with whomever they choose (within reason). The easiest way out of the friend zone is to realize that you have the right to seek happiness and fulfillment with someone who reciprocates those feelings, but no one owes you anything. Link to post Share on other sites
Diezel Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 If the "Friendzone" were a physical place, I'd bet that the ratio of men to women stuck there would probably be something like 100:1. And then the men in that Friendzone would try to hit on that one girl, and then that girl would place 99 of them in a different Friendzone. I'm sorry but whoever is saying that men and female are equal and have it just the same... is just wrong. From everything biological to emotional to logical, it's just different. The thought processes are even different. Isis, you say you have been in the Friendzone? Maybe that's true, but for every 1 guy that did that to you, you might have done the same to 3 without really knowing it. And if that's not the case, there are plenty of others who have. I've FZ'ed women, but their reaction to be putting there is quite different. All hope is eliminated for them. A guy in a FZ continues to persist in his endeavor to be a knight in shining armor forever and ever. Link to post Share on other sites
Emilia Posted September 19, 2014 Share Posted September 19, 2014 The last guy who did it in my personal experience actually used the term friend-zone in his rejection. The difference is that he would have probably still slept with you at some point while women who put guys in friend zones don't have sex. In fact the reason why some guys will friendzone you is probably because you don't sleep with them. Otherwise they wouldn't. Link to post Share on other sites
Recommended Posts