undetected sociopaths

[tuxedo cat]

I worked for a woman recently who I believe to be borderline sociopathic or at least highly narcissistic. She has some sort of personality disorder.

 

I saw her repeatedly exploit, use and discard people around her for her own personal gain. I heard her say terrible things about people who were helping her for free. I saw her make an overweight woman cry about her size. What's disturbing to me is how well respected she was by a number of her coworkers and friends.

 

Are most people just not great at reading others? How do people like this have friends? I could tell that there was something very off about her after 30 seconds in our first encounter.

[bubbaganoosh]

I worked for a woman recently who I believe to be borderline sociopathic or at least highly narcissistic. She has some sort of personality disorder.

 

I saw her repeatedly exploit, use and discard people around her for her own personal gain. I heard her say terrible things about people who were helping her for free. I saw her make an overweight woman cry about her size. What's disturbing to me is how well respected she was by a number of her coworkers and friends.

 

Are most people just not great at reading others? How do people like this have friends? I could tell that there was something very off about her after 30 seconds in our first encounter.

 

Someday, she's going to say the wrong thing to the wrong person and find herself on her ass.

 

You can only get away with that so many times before someone takes exception to it and strikes back in one of many ways, some legal, some not.

[TXGuy]

I worked for a woman recently who I believe to be borderline sociopathic or at least highly narcissistic. She has some sort of personality disorder.

 

I saw her repeatedly exploit, use and discard people around her for her own personal gain. I heard her say terrible things about people who were helping her for free.

 

That describes about half the women I know (and I am in the higher socioeconomic circles).

[Emilia]

I worked for a woman recently who I believe to be borderline sociopathic or at least highly narcissistic. She has some sort of personality disorder.

 

I saw her repeatedly exploit, use and discard people around her for her own personal gain. I heard her say terrible things about people who were helping her for free. I saw her make an overweight woman cry about her size. What's disturbing to me is how well respected she was by a number of her coworkers and friends.

 

Are most people just not great at reading others? How do people like this have friends? I could tell that there was something very off about her after 30 seconds in our first encounter.

What people underestimate is how most just want peace at work and a stressfree environment. Many of those coworkers befriend her or are kind to her because they don't want hassle, they don't want to battle with someone on a regular basis, they don't want to risk their job, their career etc. People will weather a lot if they have to. You need to put this in perspective and probably best if you learn to ignore her.

[Haydn]

These people are everywhere. Don't give her any fuel. People want to be her friend then that's their lookout.

[Brigid]

That describes about half the women I know (and I am in the higher socioeconomic circles).

 

I'd ditch that circle quick.

[Quiet Storm]

There are many personality disordered people. My conservative guess would be about one out of ten people.

 

The stupid ones & violent sociopaths will usually end up in jail.

 

The others walk among us- manipulating, using, triangulating, lying, etc. We are simply a resource, their supply, their entertainment. Some are subtle with it, others blatant. I believe young ones to be more impulsive & blatant, while older ones are more subtle because they have had decades of experience to refine their tactics.

 

Many sociopaths feel that if we believe their lies, we deserve what happens to us (we were dumb enough to believe them).

 

My sister is a Borderline and she has fooled many, including very smart men (one was an officer at the Naval Academy). She has even fooled Hopkins trained doctors, and thinks its funny when they buy her BS! She researches her lies, psychiatric symptoms, etc., so she knows what to say. She figured out that when she acts emotionally unhinged & gets hospitalized for a 72 hour psych hold, all she has to do is tell the docs she was drunk or on drugs. Then they will let her out after a few hours because they blame her behavior on the substance & not her disorder.

 

One of the biggest misconceptions about personality disorders is that they are not intellectually intelligent. Many are very smart & cunning. Mentally ill/personality disordered does not equal dumb.

 

Their whole life is a game, and every interaction just gives them more practice. When called out on their behavior, they just learn how to be better at it next time & find a new target.

[tuxedo cat]

What people underestimate is how most just want peace at work and a stressfree environment. Many of those coworkers befriend her or are kind to her because they don't want hassle, they don't want to battle with someone on a regular basis, they don't want to risk their job, their career etc. People will weather a lot if they have to. You need to put this in perspective and probably best if you learn to ignore her.

 

Do you really think a lot of people are willing to befriend people they dislike to ensure professional peace? I'm not so sure.

[Quiet Storm]

Do you really think a lot of people are willing to befriend people they dislike to ensure professional peace? I'm not so sure.

 

Certainly. There are many phony people in the business world. We want to protect our agenda (success, reputation).

 

Sociopaths can be ruthless- they will stoop so low, and do anything to get what they want. You dont want to be the target of their quest for revenge. Why get on their bad side and create conflict with someone like that?

[Glinda.Good]

Maybe all the other people in her life; you know, long time co-workers, family, friends, etc. have failed to detect that she is a sociopath, and mistakenly actually like her?

[tuxedo cat]

Maybe all the other people in her life; you know, long time co-workers, family, friends, etc. have failed to detect that she is a sociopath, and mistakenly actually like her?

 

Some of them genuinely do, but they're idiots. She's a kiss up, kick down woman who sucks up to clients and well connected friends but shows another side to everyone else.

 

A lot of people also loathe her. She had one former employee try to sue her for harassment. Another employee told me he felt abused and worn down by her after working for her for 10 years. He is a lot happier now that he's left and found another job.

[tuxedo cat]

Certainly. There are many phony people in the business world. We want to protect our agenda (success, reputation).

 

Sociopaths can be ruthless- they will stoop so low, and do anything to get what they want. You dont want to be the target of their quest for revenge. Why get on their bad side and create conflict with someone like that?

 

It's not just phoniness or pretend affection. A lot of people who go into business actually respect antisocial traits in themselves and others.

[Emilia]

Do you really think a lot of people are willing to befriend people they dislike to ensure professional peace? I'm not so sure.

Of course. People go to work to earn a living, not to have moral or other judgements passed on their colleagues. People befriend each other all the time for whatever reason. Men befriend women to have sex with them, men befriend men to have someone to get drunk with, women befriend other women to have allies. All sorts, you can't honestly believe that all friendships are genuine?

[Emilia]

It's not just phoniness or pretend affection. A lot of people who go into business actually respect antisocial traits in themselves and others.

I do. That's because business is business. Antisocial traits very often bring you more success. Not all ruthless people are successful but many successful people are ruthless.

[Kamille]

I think sociopath is a strong word.

 

In my field of work, ruthlessness does get rewarded. In my view, it makes the field interesting. Think of it like living in a political drama. I don't win every game and have at times felt like people took advantage of me, but they never did so without my implicit or explicit consent. In competitive fields - and yours is one - part of the game is learning to collaborate while protecting your work.

 

Tux, I've seen you bandy about words such as sociopath and narcissists to describe some your past relationships that have gone wrong. I don't dispute that your ex boss was difficult and unfair. You're allowed to be angry at her. You're allowed to feel she treated you unfairly. But I would caution you against slapping a mental illness disorder on someone every single time one of your relationship fails. One, it's nearly impossible that everyone you have ever had a conflict with has a disorder. Two, it takes the focus away from how you can better handle conflict in relationships in the future.

[tuxedo cat]

 

Tux, I've seen you bandy about words such as sociopath and narcissists to describe some your past relationships that have gone wrong. I don't dispute that your ex boss was difficult and unfair. You're allowed to be angry at her. You're allowed to feel she treated you unfairly. But I would caution you against slapping a mental illness disorder on someone every single time one of your relationship fails. One, it's nearly impossible that everyone you have ever had a conflict with has a disorder. Two, it takes the focus away from how you can better handle conflict in relationships in the future.

 

Kamille, with all due respect, you're exaggerating. I've only used these words to describe two people in my life: one of my exes and this boss.

 

I've had many other relationships that failed. My ex is a textbook narcissist and even told me he was worried he had the disorder during one of our first conversations. I also know that I have a tendency to be drawn toward narcissistic men, yet he is the only guy I've dated whom I think had a full blown personality disorder.

 

I agree with you that I need to take responsibility for letting myself be taken advantage of by disordered people, but that doesn't mean I can't call a spade a spade.

Edited July 30, 2014 by tuxedo cat

[Glinda.Good]

you can't honestly believe that all friendships are genuine?

 

Or, that a less than genuine friendship, some unethical behavior, or a person disliking you indicates socio or psychopathy?

[tuxedo cat]

To continue that thought:

 

Kamille, it's true that I've had trouble throughout my life working towards my best interests--you're right on that--but that doesn't mean my perception of others is misguided. I actually think I have a very clear view of other people, and it's bad advice for you to suggest I dismiss my perception. That's been my problem: not having confidence in my instincts.

 

My gut has never failed me. Take a look at the thread I started when I first encountered my boss. I had a bad feeling about her solely based on the way she treated and talked down to people in her office--she wasn't even interacting with me. I've been in a lot of offices, some of them very ruthless, but something about her struck me as especially manipulative and disingenuous.

 

Similarly I had a bad feeling about my ex during our first conversation.

 

What's failed me isn't my perception but my ability to act on it. If I could go back on time I would have looked for another internship. I knew in my gut that it would be a bad experience yet I chose to charge ahead. This is my problem--not cutting my losses and looking for other opportunities. Fortunately, having met some other people in the industry since that internship ended, I've realized that most of them aren't like her.

[Kamille]

Fair point Tuxedo. I was under the impression that you often diagnosed others when you had conflicts with them perhaps from witnessing interactions on here. But I'm glad I'm wrong and happy to hear that you don't usually think people you have conflicts with have mental health issues. Some times, people just disagree. You are completely allowed to disagree with my assessment. I hope you did not feel attacked, as that was not my intention.

 

 

That said, for me, the question isn't so much why you don't trust your instincts but, rather, why you spent so much time trying to convince your ex to love you and so much energy trying to gain your ex-boss' approval.

 

 

Why does: bad gut instinct translate into: will try to win them over?

[tuxedo cat]

Fair point Tuxedo. I was under the impression that you often diagnosed others when you had conflicts with them perhaps from witnessing interactions on here. But I'm glad I'm wrong and happy to hear that you don't usually think people you have conflicts with have mental health issues. Some times, people just disagree. You are completely allowed to disagree with my assessment. I hope you did not feel attacked, as that was not my intention.

 

Kamille, I don't feel that you're attacking me and you know that I respect your intelligence. I'm just disagreeing.

 

Why does: bad gut instinct translate into: will try to win them over?

 

Lack of confidence, I think.

 

But there's an easy solution, which is to disengage before I even care. I only care about winning them over once I have an established relationship with them, whether healthy or un.

 

Had I been confident enough to turn down that internship and look for other opportunities--what my gut was whispering--I wouldn't have felt the need to win her over.

 

Same with my ex. I didn't like him or have any real interest in him after our first conversation. But I continued on, seeing if he would prove me wrong.

[The Like Fairy]

 

Lack of confidence, I think. .

 

 

Bingo! This is usually the underlying reason universally, I reckon.

 

 

 

 

But there's an easy solution, which is to disengage before I even care. I only care about winning them over once I have an established relationship with them, whether healthy or un.

 

Had I been confident enough to turn down that internship and look for other opportunities--what my gut was whispering--I wouldn't have felt the need to win her over.

 

Same with my ex. I didn't like him or have any real interest in him after our first conversation. But I continued on, seeing if he would prove me wrong.

 

 

God almighty, don't feel too bad about some of the bad choices you've made in wasting time with people who didn't deserve to have you in their lives.

 

 

Life is nothing if not a series of learning experiences and regrettable choices. Some of us are better than others at really mucking things up and wasting too much time with the wrong people

 

 

I'm just so pleased you're all the wiser now Tuxedo Cat! And, I'm pretty sure many folks (not the least of which is myself) have got you beat when it comes to having wasted time with losers, mentally disordered or otherwise. It's all good. Cheers hun!

[todreaminblue]

I worked for a woman recently who I believe to be borderline sociopathic or at least highly narcissistic. She has some sort of personality disorder.

 

I saw her repeatedly exploit, use and discard people around her for her own personal gain. I heard her say terrible things about people who were helping her for free. I saw her make an overweight woman cry about her size. What's disturbing to me is how well respected she was by a number of her coworkers and friends.

 

Are most people just not great at reading others? How do people like this have friends? I could tell that there was something very off about her after 30 seconds in our first encounter.

 

How do people like this have friends? I could tell that there was something very off about her after 30 seconds in our first encounter.

 

I think it because people ignore their gut feelings on meeting someone that people as a whole are very giving and dont listen to what their gut says after the first minute of meeting someone because we have been ingrained to believe that you dont judge a book by its cover......

 

 

my step father was often "mean" to me and reduced me to tears on a regular basis not in front of him mind you....but later when i was alone.......he was extremely hard to be close to, he wasnt affectionate really and he was all about work and had extremely high standards......his work mates were often scared of him, he commanded respect and he got it......he wasnt social he was there to do his job and he didnt socialize with them before or after work and he always had managerial roles.....in his careers he chose...any job he wanted he got ..he was the ultimate in providing for his family money wise and strength wise..we lacked for nothing.....

 

 

but

 

 

he was hard to live with, very quiet, and quick to discipline.....one time after being "disciplined" to where i couldnt sit down he opened up to me......he told em about a time he had refused to buy his father cigarettes when he was a teenage boy...and his father my grandfather had beat him with a razor strop he still refused to buy them......he told me then my grandfather had actually given him through genetics a will of iron and those beatings had made him stronger not weaker......i now think he was correct......i didnt believe him about my grandfather.....my grandfather was so gentle with me......i knew my grandfather was a strong man he was a soldier, an officer who was highly respected.........he also commanded respect....neither my stepfather or my grandfather are sociopaths......they were men who had wills of iron......they were often obviously some times mean......but they did care and they provided for their families ....cross them though......or do the wrong thing and they were lethal.....and i think considering my families are survivors there is this strength

because it needs to be there for defense ...now i have five children and i am a single mum.....i have strength untapped......and i call on it when i need it......and even though my father might have been someone who would be considered a sociopath i am glad he was the way he was with me......made me part of who i am......and built my backbone to get me through what i have been through...i get up when i get knocked down because i dont know any other way to do it.....i dont know if i would have been the way i am ....unless he was my step dad.....

 

 

i dont take people on face value....even when they are mean i try to look deeper past all of it..there is always a reason fro a persons behaviors...always.......and that takes a lot longer than thirty seconds sometimes it takes a life time to understand someone .....i dont give up on people because they are prickly......i look to the stem of who they are...and i try to get them to open up following and skirting their boundaries.........liek a people skirmish

 

throwing around sociopath and narcissistic.....i would say you would have to know someone in depth to determine that....maybe thats why people are her friend tux, they are going in deeper than you felt comfortable with maybe they see something you are unable to because you really dont know her at all.....deb

[tuxedo cat]

I

throwing around sociopath and narcissistic.....i would say you would have to know someone in depth to determine that....maybe thats why people are her friend tux, they are going in deeper than you felt comfortable with maybe they see something you are unable to because you really dont know her at all.....deb

 

If anything they're going less deep. Her coworker who has been there for years told me she has no close friends. She's also never had a long term relationship with anyone.

[todreaminblue]

If anything they're going less deep. Her coworker who has been there for years told me she has no close friends. She's also never had a long term relationship with anyone.

 

sounds a bit sad to me.......never had a long term relationship or close friends....do you find that sad?

 

 

it reminds me of scrooge the story of.......how it wasn't until he was confronted with ghosts of the future and past did he change.....i know its just a story but i think the moral behind is strongly grounded in reality....

 

people can change...and i blieve soemtimes other peopel are put in their life to make that change happen..in saying that you dont know why people are the way they are .....some people dont let you know that for a very long time....i have been able to get close to people others cannot.......including an anti social hermit......and two women who was isolated behind abusive men through those men i got to them......i became their friends because they needed a friend...i was able to help them get away......got the crap beaten out of me once though...was it worth it......yes...would i do it again ...without a doubt.....

 

they werent sociopathic men both were drug and alcohol addicts...

Edited July 30, 2014 by todreaminblue