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Article on Percentages/Infidelity


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Read this article yesterday and, while the advice is sound, I wonder what LSers think about the numbers cited:

 

Did you know that a “new survey finds that a majority of cheaters find their partners more attractive than their lovers?” Here it is, verbatim:

 

“Only 30 percent of cheating men surveyed choose mistresses who are younger than their wives. Not even half — 42.8 percent — think their mistress is prettier than their partner. In fact, almost 74 percent report that their partner is more interesting to them than their mistress. Why cheat, then? For the majority of these male survey respondents, their secret lovers are more caring, better listeners, and more passionate.

 

“Approximately 25.8 percent of the women in the survey stated that their lover is younger than their partner, with about 65.7 percent stating that their husband or partner is actually more attractive than their lover. 89.6 percent of cheating women have chosen a lover they believe appreciates them more than their husbands.”

 

I’m not surprised. I’ve always thought the idea that men cheat because they simply can’t resist beautiful young women was way oversold. Nope. A man’s vulnerability to an affair often comes down to the same two things making women vulnerable: connection and passion.

 

As to the latter, surely toward the top of the list of things healthy people hope for from a sexual partner is a sexual partner who really, really wants to 1) have sex and 2) have it with me! That is, healthy people in possession of healthy self-respect don’t really want to be serviced (“Kids to bed, clothes folded, sex with spouse”) or patronized (“Well, he did clean the garage like I asked”) and they certainly wouldn’t tolerate being begrudged (“Well, I suppose I did marry you; so, if you simply must have sex …”).

 

If you want to “affair proof” your marriage, then accept the daily work of connection. Talk. Listen. Inquire. Remember. Touch. Solicit. Soothe. Nurture. Pay attention. Next, never underestimate what place passion and desire play for your mate.

 

Never tell yourself that sexual withdrawal, withholding or abandoning is inconsequential. And never give up on cultivating your own passion. This is the piece most often disregarded.

 

It’s not OK to wake up in the middle of a marriage and say unilaterally, “Oh, by the way, I’ve decided sex is no longer important to me.”

 

Here is the astonishing irony. Wanna know where this cutting edge survey comes from?

 

“(This from a) survey of 4,538 members of the infidelity site Victoria Milan, one of the world’s leading discreet social networks for men and women seeking a secret affair. The service was launched by happily married media executive Sigurd Vedal in 2010 and has today become one of the world’s fastest growing and leading social networks for discreet extramarital affairs surpassing 3 million members worldwide in more than 20 countries.”

Huh? Let’s review. There is, on the Internet, a website promoting and arranging secret extramarital affairs. They have more than 3 million members. They have a marketing firm! The website understands itself to be an alternative to divorce. I’m not kidding. Preserving the institution of marriage by melting down the very symbol of marriage and recasting it in papier-mache.

 

Here’s what I’m curious about: Why wouldn’t you instead go to your spouse, take a breath and say, “It’s not OK to abandon the work of connection, nor to abandon participation in sexual courtship. I won’t tolerate it. If you want to grow old with me, then you’ll need to be fixing those things right away.”

 

Steven Kalas is a behavioral health consultant and counselor at Las Vegas Psychiatry and the author of “Human Matters: Wise and Witty Counsel on Relationships, Parenting, Grief and Doing the Right Thing” (Stephens Press). His columns appear on Sundays. Contact him at 227-4165 or skalas@ reviewjournal.com.

 

 

Thoughts?

 

 

Mr. Lucky

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Could not agree more.

 

The shocking fact that more cheat down, not up, is further proof that the affair often has a lot to do with just being appreciated more.

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Could not agree more.

 

The shocking fact that more cheat down, not up, is further proof that the affair often has a lot to do with just being appreciated more.

 

Affairs have to do with frail egos, a high need for validation, dishonesty, conflict avoidance, etc.

 

Victims of bad behavior aren't responsible for the bad behavior. People are responsible for their own actions.

 

(sigh, I wish we could discuss infidelity on the infidelity boards)

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Could not agree more.

 

The shocking fact that more cheat down, not up, is further proof that the affair often has a lot to do with just being appreciated more.

I'll have to say that this is counter to my own limited first-hand knowledge of infidelity. Mostly in the workplace, seems like men especially cheat with younger, physically more attractive partners. Admiitedly small sample though.

(sigh, I wish we could discuss infidelity on the infidelity boards)

Couldn't agree more. Don't know why it was moved. Not much traffic on this forum so anticipate less discussion...

 

Mr. Lucky

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Couldn't agree more. Don't know why it was moved. Not much traffic on this forum so anticipate less discussion...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

It's because they are clamping down on the "infidelity forum" only being for threads dealing with real ongoing situations.

 

Forum Purpose

 

This sub forum of the Marriage & Life Partnership forum is “Infidelity. In an affair or suspect your significant other? Share your experiences and concern here”.

 

By its title, this area is for people in marriages or life partnerships, who are either participating in an affair or suspect their partner is. This sub forum is designed for personal discussion of one’s situation as he or she navigates through infidelity and the resulting impact on his or her life.

 

Threads posted here should come from a personal point of view with regard to the thread starter’s own situation as either a wandering spouse (WS) or betrayed spouse (BS).

But dumping everything in General discussion will miss the intended audience for the general infidelity discussions. Topics like yours will just sink to the bottom now and we won't have a place to discuss issues that come up on the infidelity board with our community, unless we go ahead and thread jack someone's personal thread. I think it's a bad move what they are doing.

 

I actually had a topic in mind earlier today, but decided not to post it because it would just get moved...and lost.

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I'll have to say that this is counter to my own limited first-hand knowledge of infidelity. Mostly in the workplace, seems like men especially cheat with younger, physically more attractive partners. Admiitedly small sample though.

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Normally that is what I expect to see, but my own experience (first had, sadly) was the above.

 

Cheating down, getting much more validation and desire from the OM. I think the younger may have been the norm in the past, but I've seen much more cheating where I sit back and think:

 

"You cheated with HIM/HER over your husband/wife?"

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Attachment issues

Very good post but the infidelity people don't want to hear these kind of stats. I am new to the protocol but could it be in the OM/OW board?

 

I totally agree with this concept. People don't know how lonely marriage can be if both partners don't pay attention. You certainly expect to be "known" and valued by your spouse.

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Cheating down, getting much more validation and desire from the OM. I think the younger may have been the norm in the past, but I've seen much more cheating where I sit back and think:

 

"You cheated with HIM/HER over your husband/wife?"

 

If you are getting the ego stroking from your spouse then a less attractive, more acheivable partner is going to do it for you. And let us not forget the spouse knows you better - they might love you a great deal but they love you warts and all, a new partner isn't going to know about those warts as yet. There is still fairy-dust ...

 

Regarding the spouse who is obsessed about the garage not being tidied - of course in the grand scheme of things a tidy garage isn't a big thing, but doing the dull stuff can be a gift of love too. A refusal to contribute to the family/household wellbeing in a practical sense is damaging too.

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Actually, a great article. But I am not surprised that some will disagree with it. It seems to say that if you don't hold up your end of the marriage, then why will you be surprised when your spouses cheats?

 

If you want to “affair proof” your marriage, then accept the daily work of connection. Talk. Listen. Inquire. Remember. Touch. Solicit. Soothe. Nurture. Pay attention. Next, never underestimate what place passion and desire play for your mate.

 

Never tell yourself that sexual withdrawal, withholding or abandoning is inconsequential. And never give up on cultivating your own passion. This is the piece most often disregarded.

 

It’s not OK to wake up in the middle of a marriage and say unilaterally, “Oh, by the way, I’ve decided sex is no longer important to me.”

 

Bingo. Glad someone recognizes how this affects the spouse who has a strong need for this physical yet emotional connection called sex.

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Could not agree more.

 

The shocking fact that more cheat down, not up, is further proof that the affair often has a lot to do with just being appreciated more.

 

I think the "affair info up or down" aspect s being overhyped here. This was a very particular sample - spouses who set out to have an A, and looked expressly for partners that were willing to have an A knowing the parameters. I'd guess that that's a rather small subset of all As - most of which, I'd imagine, happen without that kind of forethought or targeting. Someone who falls in love with someone who is not their spouse is more likely to consider their AP "better" than their spouse, for the simple reason that their AP has their heart. These are not the people being surveyed here, and the findings cannot be extrapolated to them.

 

That said, it's unlikely anyone would have an A with anyone - "better" or "worse" than their spouse - if the A did not make them feel better about themselves.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ChooseTruth

(sigh, I wish we could discuss infidelity on the infidelity boards)

Couldn't agree more. Don't know why it was moved. Not much traffic on this forum so anticipate less discussion...

 

Mr. Lucky

Actually, if one reads the sticky thread at the top of both the Infidelity and OM/OW forums, one will know, in advance, as of those post dates, now about 18 months ago, where topics are to be placed. That's forum policy. If you don't like it, take your postings elsewhere. Now, back to the topic. Thanks!

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ClemsonTigers
The service was launched by happily married media executive Sigurd Vedal in 2010 and has today become one of the world’s fastest growing and leading social networks for discreet extramarital affairs surpassing 3 million members worldwide in more than 20 countries.”[/i]

Huh? Let’s review. There is, on the Internet, a website promoting and arranging secret extramarital affairs. They have more than 3 million members. They have a marketing firm! The website understands itself to be an alternative to divorce. I’m not kidding. Preserving the institution of marriage by melting down the very symbol of marriage and recasting it in papier-mache.

 

This is why I insist that all the couples I counsel have key loggers on all family owned computers and open access to each others phones and internet devices. It used to be hard to cheat. Not anymore. Just about any person can find a paid person to have sex with within hours and a "relationship" on one of these hookup sites within a few weeks. It's not a matter of trusting one another anymore it's a matter of holding each other accountable for any and all activities on what's potentially marriage and relationship damaging equipment.

 

I used to tell marrying couples that they simply needed to change their cell phone numbers and delete all their opposite sex contacts (especially anyone they ever dated) when they got married. Now we do a much more extensive electronic media analysis of habits, uses and devices as means of wiping the slate clean and building intimacy in a new marriage. Just about everyone at some time uses or has used the internet for sinful/devious/dark means and your spouse needs to be privy to your weaknesses and faults so that you can together become better people married than you were as individuals. The internet either enhances the marriage or it's not to be used at all (particularly for those guys that have porn and/or gaming issues). KNOWN key logging is vital because people will simply behave better when they know someone is (or could be) watching them.

 

....if we don't watch out for our spouse...who would we watch out for?

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ClemsonTigers

 

That said, it's unlikely anyone would have an A with anyone - "better" or "worse" than their spouse - if the A did not make them feel better about themselves.

 

 

In all my days counseling I've never met a single actively wayward spouse that actually felt better about themselves. They may THINK it will help them...They may ACT like it's helping them but once they do it (with "ANYONE" as you say because better or worse really is irrelevant) they find out their situation is worse than before. It's strange but even photo's of these wayward persons exhibit sad lifeless eyes as though they are literally possessed.

 

In reality, affair partner are ALWAYS 100% of the time worse than the spouse. I like to ask my wayward clients this:

 

Would you set your child up with a married person?

Would you set your child up with a person willing to date or say, currently dating, a married person?

 

If you wouldn't want that for your child, why is that good enough for you?

 

These questions usually don't help much because waywards are generally incapable of reason and logic. Feelings and the foolish pursuit of (unobtainable) happiness clouds their judgment.

 

100 out of 100 times AFTER an affair end the wayward spouse, whether he|she recovers their marriage or not always feels the affair partner wasn't 1/2 the person their original spouse is/was. Infidelity makes people grotesque, in thought, mind and body. The darkness of betrayal just hides that fact...for a time. There's always hope.

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Mostly in the workplace, seems like men especially cheat with younger, physically more attractive partners.

 

Well sure... and dumping their wives who are getting older, now have no workplace experience, and are less spoiled and high maintenance due to all the compromises they have had to make over the years.

 

But physically more attractive (temporarily) is not "better". Those women will eventually age too. My ex chose a woman much like me only younger. But... she's less intelligent, very secretive and manipulative.

 

Oh sure... that's "better".

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After reading your enlightening post, I'll stay single, TYVM. I have zero desire to be in a dating relationship, much less a marriage where I have to play warden.

 

I also disagree that "it's easier to cheat now". Um, no. I can only imagine that cheating would have been so much simpler without instant communication of today. Cheating today, is the same as always, perhaps easier to get caught. A flawed individual is a flawed individual. And no amount of snooping, key logging, etc., will prevent a cheater from cheating.

 

I'd have to say that I agree with you. Someone who is going to cheat will find a way to do so, and no one should ever have to feel like the need to constantly watch their spouse. If they do, what;s the point?

 

It's a different matter to be open about passwords, etc. Spouses can share them but never feel like they have to use them.

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ClemsonTigers
After reading your enlightening post, I'll stay single, TYVM. I have zero desire to be in a dating relationship, much less a marriage where I have to play warden.

 

I also disagree that "it's easier to cheat now". Um, no. I can only imagine that cheating would have been so much simpler without instant communication of today. Cheating today, is the same as always, perhaps easier to get caught. A flawed individual is a flawed individual. And no amount of snooping, key logging, etc., will prevent a cheater from cheating.

 

 

We are ALL flawed individuals.

 

I also don't recommend that to dating individuals.

 

If you're not prone to do things online you don't want your spouse to know about having a keylogger on your computer shouldn't be a problem.

 

There are some people that are just not marriage material. If you don't want an interconnected intimate relationship with a spouse including RICIPROCAL knowledge of their activities (online and offline) than that is your prerogative.

 

Remember...in a jail environment...the inmates don't get to know what the warden is doing too. I am only helping these young couples set up a system in which they can succeed. I have witnessed the internet destroy too many marriages.

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ClemsonTigers
Someone who is going to cheat will find a way to do so.

 

Someone???

 

I've discovered over the years that "someone" is EVERYONE.

 

I have seen great men and women...men and women of great influence and seemingly upstanding character falter.

 

There is no immunity.

 

I've seen and helped devastated loyal betrayed spouses through difficult divorces only to have them end up the wayward spouse in their next marriage and have to counsel and help their new betrayed spouse pick up the pieces of their life.

 

If you think YOU are immune...you are a dangerous person to be with in a committed relationship/

 

The best way to avoid an affair is:

 

1. Build a strong unique and interconnected marriage sharing all aspects of yourself good and bad; AND,

 

2. Develop, implement and adjust joint marital behavior which minimizes risk to protect the both of you against your very human desires and weaknesses.

 

Examples: Do you really need individual facebook pages, how about a Joint Facebook page?, do you cc (or BCC) your spouse on any and all opposite sex emails or online communications? Never spend the night apart. Pursue professional careers which benefit the marriage and family and don't require travel. Instead of guys night and girls night, how about couples night. Pursue hobby's and activities that interest the both of you. The most successful couples I ever see are ones that actually worked together. Though they are often very difficult at the beginning...the interconnectedness pays off much later in the marriage with so much shared work and JOINT history behind them. There's a whole list of religious stuff I won't discuss here other than praying together is so important.

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Someone???

 

I've discovered over the years that "someone" is EVERYONE.

 

I have seen great men and women...men and women of great influence and seemingly upstanding character falter.

 

There is no immunity.

 

I've seen and helped devastated loyal betrayed spouses through difficult divorces only to have them end up the wayward spouse in their next marriage and have to counsel and help their new betrayed spouse pick up the pieces of their life.

 

If you think YOU are immune...you are a dangerous person to be with in a committed relationship/

 

The best way to avoid an affair is:

 

1. Build a strong unique and interconnected marriage sharing all aspects of yourself good and bad; AND,

 

2. Develop, implement and adjust joint marital behavior which minimizes risk to protect the both of you against your very human desires and weaknesses.

 

Examples: Do you really need individual facebook pages, how about a Joint Facebook page?, do you cc (or BCC) your spouse on any and all opposite sex emails or online communications? Never spend the night apart. Pursue professional careers which benefit the marriage and family and don't require travel. Instead of guys night and girls night, how about couples night. Pursue hobby's and activities that interest the both of you. The most successful couples I ever see are ones that actually worked together. Though they are often very difficult at the beginning...the interconnectedness pays off much later in the marriage with so much shared work and JOINT history behind them. There's a whole list of religious stuff I won't discuss here other than praying together is so important.

 

 

(a) I'm agnostic, so praying aint gonna happen. If someone finds comfort in their religion, that's great,and more power to them

 

(b) my hsuabnd has to be away for work he has a job that he can't just quit.

 

© we both have a Facebook page. he has my password, I have his, and neither of us cares if we "peek from time to time if we feel like it

 

(d) he needs some time on his own, as do I. His hobby is one he does at home, as is mine

 

(e) my "girls night out" involves going to the house of a mutual friend while he plays poker with the husbands

 

(f) all of this constant "togetherness" isn't going to help someone who has it in them to cheat or who doesn't have good boundaries and good self awareness. while you may find it hard to believe, there are some people who do have these things,and know they won't cheat, ad there are also people who just don't have it in them to be with more than one person at a time. It's just not who they are. This is not to say they don't engage in other behaviors that are just as destructive to their life, but cheating isn't one f them.

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This is why I insist that all the couples I counsel have key loggers on all family owned computers and open access to each others phones and internet devices. It used to be hard to cheat. Not anymore. Just about any person can find a paid person to have sex with within hours and a "relationship" on one of these hookup sites within a few weeks. It's not a matter of trusting one another anymore it's a matter of holding each other accountable for any and all activities on what's potentially marriage and relationship damaging equipment.

 

Personally, I understand why you would do this, but I wouldn't want this for myself or my wife. I am guessing that you do this for couples who are reconciling after an affair, but I wonder if you also do this for premarital counseling, too. Some of what you do has its place, but some could easily make the marriage seem like a prison and not a trusting and loving partnership.

 

Example that immediately comes to mind is....Love Shack. Her knowing that I come here would infringe on my personal freedom while having nothing to do with her ability to trust me. She has never known that I am here as a member who posts frequently. She DOES know that I am a member of many forums over the years. Some I have left and some I visit on occasions. This one I am at the most. She has never asked which ones or asked me to tell her what I write. She knows I love to write. She knows I love to research. She knows I love to give advice.

 

So why the secrecy you ask? Because I have used LS a a venting place for my feelings. By doing so, it has enabled me to look at my feelings as others see them and others have given me feedback that has given me a different perspective.

 

If she had complete access to LS, then I would no longer have LS as a place to retreat. It is a virtual friend that allows me to be a better husband in many ways. It has given me the strength in many ways to continue in a less than perfect marriage. LS has been a counselor for me.

 

She also knows that I like my space. Outside of going out for an evening with her, I would much rather go out alone. I don't need someone else. I simply want to feel the "freedom" of doing my thing. No, that does not involve bars or such. She asks where I have been on occasion probably more as a measure of my response rather than the actual places. She is the opposite although over the years, she has learned to enjoy her time alone. I rarely ask where she has gone. She volunteers the info if she thinks I would be interested.

 

As for my phone and computer.....as for her phone and computer....I can access hers and she can access mine, but we don't. I have never been on her phone. She has used mine, but she has never demanded it to see the calls I make. I can use her computer. She uses mine. Keyloggers? Nope. This simply means there is no privacy for either of us, and I am a big proponent of each person in a marriage still retaining some level of individualism. Neither of us could even a thread on a forum and we would be accountable for every feeling and word. So some of my threads that at the time were how I felt would have caused a big marital division to say the least. By saying them here, I avoided needing to tell her. By saying them here, I could see whether they were good to tell her. And yet later when I thought about some of them or was given advice, I realized how I was wrong. And I have been given advice regarding her health that has been helpful to her. If I had been afraid that my words could have been taken wrong because they were read by her, then I would never have bothered posting and she wouldn't have had the meds or therapy that she has had. I would never have had the relief of expressing the feelings and she would have probably heard them while I regretted saying them.

 

We do confide pretty much everything together. I have written her long letters. I have no doubt that she has secrets that are hers. I have no doubt that she has purchases that I know nothing of. I have no doubts that she has had thoughts or conversations that she has regretted. If I had known of them at the time, then my feelings would have been hurt unnecessarily.

 

Now all of those "boundaries" may be good, but the reality is that I could easily find ways around EVERY one of them if I really wanted to cheat. Phone? Get a prepaid one and keep it hidden. Computer key logger? Use a computer that is not at home. Passwords for accounts? Create a different account with an unknown password. Whereabouts when I am gone? Neglect to mention a place while mentioning the other places. And the list goes on. I have been on forums where guys or gals discussed how they cheated, and the creative ways they hid their affairs or infidelities is almost amusing if it weren't sad.

 

It is good that couples are open with one another, but it must be done willingly and never done as a requirement or looked at as a prison or as an infringement.While my wife knows much of my life, she does not know it all. While I know much of her life, I don't know it all...nor do I want to know it all. If she belongs to such a forum, I would be okay with it. And she may....except I know that she prefers to talk rather than write. Typing for her is a chore. She is more expressive in person in conversation. Me...I can speak better with a keyboard. Has she had friends that she confided to about me? Yes. Do I know the names? No. Was any of them a guy? I am pretty certain. Do I think she went further? I don't know, but I don't think so.

 

Point is....if a person wants to cheat, then the boundaries won't matter. If a person doesn't want to cheat, then he or she will create their own boundaries willingly. if he or she wants to cheat, then the boundaries can be avoided.

 

THIS to me is the BIGGEST key to keeping a marriage intact:

If you want to “affair proof” your marriage, then accept the daily work of connection. Talk. Listen. Inquire. Remember. Touch. Solicit. Soothe. Nurture. Pay attention. Next, never underestimate what place passion and desire play for your mate.

 

The more we talk, the more we love, the more we understand, the more we trust. When we lack the connection, then we lack the love and empathy. To not place these above all else would be foolish.

 

So I speak after 23 years of marriage...and counting. :)

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if the only reason someone doesn't cheat is because they are under constant surveillance or because they feel forced to not do so, what is the point of being with them anyway? I want to be with my husband because he wants to be, not because he feels he has to be.

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ClemsonTigers
I'm sure that is true, and I'm also sure, given your line of work you're inundated with the aftermath of said cheaters. I'd also agree if you're married to a known cheater, and decide to stay for round two and beyond, a key logger will be your friend so you'll know when to get your STD check ups. Myself? I don't stick around with a known cheater. I don't police my relationships. You have my trust completely. Until you don't. Then you're gone. Nice and tidy.

 

That's absolutely great for a dating relationship. In 1997, I was going to graduate school full time and working full time. My wife was at home going completely batty with our young children. She had my "complete trust" and I had hers. This is mistake because "complete trust" doesn't actually protect anything. She could have all the trust in the world but what she wanted was me. She was depressed, homesick and lonely and I was clueless. I didn't deserve or earn what she did but I completely understand how my neglectful behavior contributed to our marriage being vulnerable to an affair. When you have kids and years and years of dating and marriage behind you...just throwing someone out because they betrayed your [blind] trust gets more complicated. It's impossible to convey to a idealistic single man. I'm sure at one time I felt as you did. You can't know what y'll do till you are there tucking your children in at night wondering whether you can save their family. You wife IS your family....not some chick you can simply discard.

 

My wife was redeemable.

 

You are redeemable.

 

I hope you meet and marry someone that will one day can forgives you for your human errors and misjudgments (big or small).

 

You've probably already been forgiven many times for many different mistakes you've already made in your young life. I'm pretty sure your parents didn't discard you along the way...though they may have felt like doing it when you were a teen.

 

People can change and I just TRY my darndest to get young couples to understand and effect change BEFORE one of them fails so drastically it blows up an entire family.

 

Blind and simple TRUST is an immature notion. Real trust is built upon trustworthy behavior. Opening allowing and accepting a keylogger is trustworthy behavior. It's not "blind trust" it's "my life is an open book and I'll let you and encourage you to verify that anytime you want trust"

 

Consider this: I'm not Catholic but just using the example. Nuns foreswear sex. But they don't run around alone hanging out in bars, drinking and carousing. They live in convents with strict rules. They travel in groups to look after one another and protect each other from their own human desires and weaknesses. It's not TRUST that keeps the from ever having sex it's a vow AND a commitment to never put themselves in a position of being alone with a man. Marriage is like that. Despite our culture that tries to stress the individual...successful marriages aren't a combination of two individuals living separate lives....successful ones are an interconnected couple working together to compliment and protect each other for the greater good of each other and society. I doubt very much my wife has checked our key logger this year. Maybe never. But she can and I know it and that is comforting...not restricting.

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Someone???

 

I've discovered over the years that "someone" is EVERYONE.

 

100% in agreement with this. I have been criticized for saying the same thing.

 

I have seen great men and women...men and women of great influence and seemingly upstanding character falter.

 

AS have I IRL.

 

 

If you think YOU are immune...you are a dangerous person to be with in a committed relationship/

 

Very true.

 

The best way to avoid an affair is:

 

1. Build a strong unique and interconnected marriage sharing all aspects of yourself good and bad; AND,

 

2. Develop, implement and adjust joint marital behavior which minimizes risk to protect the both of you against your very human desires and weaknesses.

 

Agree while still giving each their freedom.

 

Examples: Do you really need individual facebook pages, how about a Joint Facebook page?,

 

Yes, we need separate FB pages. But we have the password to each. However, I don't know why I would access hers or she mine. She has her friends, and I mine.

 

do you cc (or BCC) your spouse on any and all opposite sex emails or online communications?

 

No. I don't want her to nor I her. I could easily misunderstand something she says and she would be explaining calling someone dear when it is her way of speaking.

 

Never spend the night apart.

 

We rarely do, but truthfully, it is rather boring without her.

 

Pursue professional careers which benefit the marriage and family and don't require travel.

 

THIS I agree with. Here is where guys can easily fall into "sin." Being alone when needing a woman equals trouble. But having said that, if a man forgoes a great career because his wife doesn't trust him, then there is another problem that him being at home won't solve.

 

Instead of guys night and girls night, how about couples night. Pursue hobby's and activities that interest the both of you.

 

Sorry. I don't like refinishing wood....she does. I like aquariums...she does not. I like being alone. She does too. We also enjoy each other, but we enjoy our alone time. Neither of us have guys/girls nights, but it is good for couples to have same sex friends that bring them together and not apart.

 

Having to limit hobbies to her interests or my interests would be detrimental to our marriage and our individual well being. All of my hobbies are appreciated by her but not enjoyed as participating. All of hers are appreciated by me but certainly not enjoyable to me. If chose hobbies that we both liked, then neither of us would be happy.

 

The most successful couples I ever see are ones that actually worked together.

 

True. But IMO this does not mean that they need to stick together like velcro.

 

Though they are often very difficult at the beginning...the interconnectedness pays off much later in the marriage with so much shared work and JOINT history behind them.

 

This is true. In fact over the years, we have developed our ways because of what works for us. It helps me if I get out one night a week. It helps her if she stays up late on some nights. These are our alone times.

 

There's a whole list of religious stuff I won't discuss here other than praying together is so important.

 

We would agree on much of this too.

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ClemsonTigers

Point is....if a person wants to cheat, then the boundaries won't matter. If a person doesn't want to cheat, then he or she will create their own boundaries willingly. if he or she wants to cheat, then the boundaries can be avoided.

 

 

Thank you for your perspective. There was a lot to respond to but I don't have the time this afternoon so I just picked out this as it relates more to this thread and I don't want to upset William.

 

In my experience, very few people "want to cheat". Cheating is a very human characteristic. We all do it to some degree or another (like cheating on a test or cheating the IRS). We are all liars to some degree or another. The general "want" to sin is inborn. This inborn desire, root evil, needs to be noted and observed in the context of any healthy marriage (I almost said "relationship" but this doesn't apply to single people who should date as many people as they frick'in can). That being said, other than the mentally ill (bipolars and narcissists who lack impulse control) adulterers don't wake up in healthy marriages with a want and desire to cheat TODAY. Sure they COULD avoid boundaries and jump through all sorts of hoops to rationalize and justify seeking an affair but this almost always happens AFTER highly inappropriate behavior and/or an inappropriate relationship has begun. Again, the extreme sneaking around happens AFTER the inappropriate behavior has already commenced through what's generally accepted as appropriate means (like facebook, texting and/or email with an old boyfriend or girlfriend as simply "friends"). Remove, modify, recognize the danger of and monitor those "appropriate means" upfront and magically there's no opportunity to commence an inappropriate relationship and everyone is none the wiser.

 

The point being one of the big KEYS to avoiding either being a victim of an affair OR being the perpetrator of an affair in your marriage is establishing boundaries defining specifically good and appropriate couple behavior as well as avoiding and eliminating even the slightest of improprieties. If you value your marriage treat it that way.

 

 

Marriage that last 50 years without infidelity don't just happen. Not anymore. They need to be honest and address the risks and common pitfalls as they navigate through our highly sexual consumer driven culture constantly pressuring them to be perfect AND happy versus gracious and content.

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ClemsonTigers
if I were married and cheated on my husband, I hope he'd kick me out, as that's exactly what I would deserve. And that's certainly what I'd do.

 

I'm very sorry that that boy treated you that way. You've seen the underbelly of human behavior and I hope someday you can put it behind you and move on with very minimal scaring. Not all men are like this. You will find a wonderful decent man and marry him and hopefully together you will work together to the extent possible to insure neither of you ever cheat. "LOVE" alone accomplishes that for very few. Use your recent experience and the learning you do here on loveshack to make your next relationship and potential marriage better and more fulfilling. Take the time you need to vent your upsettedness and bitterness. You've certainly been wronged BUT...BUT God has a plan for you and this lesson was part of that plan. Find out what that lesson is and put the rest behind you.

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Thank you for your perspective. There was a lot to respond to but I don't have the time this afternoon so I just picked out this as it relates more to this thread and I don't want to upset William.

 

In my experience, very few people "want to cheat". Cheating is a very human characteristic. We all do it to some degree or another (like cheating on a test or cheating the IRS). We are all liars to some degree or another. The general "want" to sin is inborn. This inborn desire, root evil, needs to be noted and observed in the context of any healthy marriage (I almost said "relationship" but this doesn't apply to single people who should date as many people as they frick'in can). That being said, other than the mentally ill (bipolars and narcissists who lack impulse control) adulterers don't wake up in healthy marriages with a want and desire to cheat TODAY. Sure they COULD avoid boundaries and jump through all sorts of hoops to rationalize and justify seeking an affair but this almost always happens AFTER highly inappropriate behavior and/or an inappropriate relationship has begun. Again, the extreme sneaking around happens AFTER the inappropriate behavior has already commenced through what's generally accepted as appropriate means (like facebook, texting and/or email with an old boyfriend or girlfriend as simply "friends"). Remove, modify, recognize the danger of and monitor those "appropriate means" upfront and magically there's no opportunity to commence an inappropriate relationship and everyone is none the wiser.

 

The point being one of the big KEYS to avoiding either being a victim of an affair OR being the perpetrator of an affair in your marriage is establishing boundaries defining specifically good and appropriate couple behavior as well as avoiding and eliminating even the slightest of improprieties. If you value your marriage treat it that way.

 

 

Marriage that last 50 years without infidelity don't just happen. Not anymore. They need to be honest and address the risks and common pitfalls as they navigate through our highly sexual consumer driven culture constantly pressuring them to be perfect AND happy versus gracious and content.

 

Do we honestly have stats that support this? I feel like many will wax nostalgic about past generations and glossing over or forgetting some of the transgressions that were happening. Do we really know that there are more affairs now than before? I find that hard to believe since men were "okayed" more so in past decades to step outside than they are now. Domestic abuse was not seen as an issue, it was a man's right to rule his household, divorce was greatly frowned on especially for women and to be a "divorcee" was basically seen as a slut since you were obviously known to have had sex and didn't have the good graces to be a widow instead (though even that was seen as easy).

 

I really don't believe that affairs happen more now, MAYBE among women and potentially less professional sex workers used, but I think we are just more open and it is easier to track. Even the media back a few decades didn't discuss high ranking officials affairs. If that didn't make the papers, the average man's dalliances aren't going to be more than hush hush though the woman may be shunned.

 

Affairs, and anything tied to sex, has been more so on the raise for women since the Pill. That has revolutionized the power women have over their bodies and their decisions. Now women can stave off pregnancy that not too long ago would have been much harder/impossible. So like the raise in divorce, you could see the raise in affairs.

 

Having been a WS, I do agree with many of the other posters, while transparency may very much help narrow down the opportunities I think the old saying "where there is a will there is a way" is apropos. At the time I cheated, I was on my way out of the marriage so no amount of transparency would have necessarily shut that down. I had little respect left for the marriage and had no major concerns on gambling it.

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