Women & emotional distance

[hotpotato]

This is mostly directed at the ladies.

 

Have anybody been told they were not emotionally vulnerable by a man? How did you change or did you?

[RedRobin]

I've been told by a couple of exes that they didn't feel 'needed' by me.

 

After some soul searching, I decided that if they need me to play weak so they can feel 'needed' then we aren't compatible. Like 'oh honey, I can't possibly open this jar by myself... or do my own finances... or fix a lawnmower. Help me!!"

 

They never said that I wasn't emotionally vulnerable or available. It was different. It was like I didn't give them a job to do, or whatever.

 

Ironically, it was these guys who *I* felt were not emotionally available or they were more traditional type guys who preferred girls who weren't particularly handy, resourceful, athletic or whatever. I took it as a sign of insecurity in them, that they didn't know how much I valued them despite all of the ways I told them and showed them.

 

If I changed anything, it was that I thank them and express gratitude for things they do or try to do. However, I do this to everyone... not just men I'm dating. It is a good habit to have. People want to feel appreciated.

Edited September 29, 2013 by RedRobin

[salparadise]

I had that conversation with a woman yesterday.

 

It was our second date. We were talking relationships in general terms when she began to relate her own feelings...

 

The first date was about a month ago. She's trying OLD for the first time and lives an hour and a half away. After the first date we both messaged that we had a nice time, etc. Then a few days later she sends me a message in which she said she had been thinking and perhaps the spark wasn't there, and she'd like to "just be friends." Ok I'm a big boy and know that's code for get lost buddy, so I didn't respond. Over the next few weeks I noticed that she'd keep going back to visit my profile on the site. I still didn't respond. After about three weeks she sends me another email containing some kind of question, obviously wondering why I was not engaging and trying to entice me to do so. So I responded and also addressed the previous email.

 

I said ok look, we met for a specific reason. We had a nice time but you're not interested in dating me, so I accept that and am moving on. We don't really have a basis for platonic friendship, and neither of us are going to travel that distance to have coffee and chat awhile. I was polite but let her know that I wasn't interested in pretending to be friends. Well, she messages back and says that she would like to meet again, so we did. This time she came to me.

 

We had brunch and walked and talked. In a round about way she said that she is trying to protect herself from getting hurt [again]. I translated for her... she's afraid of being vulnerable, thus she's making herself emotionally unavailable. She's trying to create loose attachments, i.e., let's be friends.

 

She went on to say that in the past things seem to go well until it gets sexual, and then things change, yada yada yada. Now this is a smart, attractive woman, not some naive little girl, but she seems to be deluding herself! She give me the "friend" treatment and then seems puzzled as to why I don't continue pursuing. She actually does believe that being friends is an acceptable middle ground. She dated a few more people from the site and said that none of them interested her at all.

 

Bottom line, she's interested in me but doesn't want to admit it, is afraid to be vulnerable, is probably repressed in terms of her sexuality. I think she's a lost cause to be honest, but she it nice, smart and she's attractive. It's a shame because were it not for her confusion I probably would be interested.

 

What do you ladies think––lost cause or not?

[RedRobin]

^^

 

There is a difference between being emotionally open/vulnerable and jumping into the sack with a total stranger... which is what a lot of people doing OLD expect.

 

I don't tell men I'm interested in that I want to be 'just friends'. I tell them I need to go slow... it isn't because I'm afraid of getting hurt or that I'm 'repressed sexually' either.

 

it means I don't sleep with strangers.

 

Now that I think of it, I can remember one guy from OLD way back when who said I wasn't emotionally open.

 

'Open' to him was jumping into the sack with a near stranger. I take that kind of criticism as a form of bullying (kind of the reverse of slut shaming) ... or just incompatibility. I guess when his 'charm' didn't pay off with a 1-3 date quickie, that was the best he could do to salvage his ego. *shrug*

 

OP, unless you get that criticism from other parts of your life (friends/family) I'd take it as just an incompatibility. One person's 'emotionally unavailable' is another person's happy, drama-free existence. Just find someone whose communication style suits yours.

[salparadise]

^^

 

There is a difference between being emotionally open/vulnerable and jumping into the sack with a total stranger... which is what a lot of people doing OLD expect.

 

 

Yes, RR, I understand this difference. I did not say or do anything that could be construed as having early expectations. I think she's holding up her shield with both hands. What it feels like from my perspective is that she wants me to pursue while being held at arm's length by her "just friends" status. I think it's time to go silent on her again. If she wants to date then she needs to call it dating and show me that the energy and intent will be reciprocal.

 

I got a nice, long, first message from another woman yesterday. She closed by saying, "I will be honest about this, if you are looking for an intimate relation to start with, then I am not who you need." I wrote back and ended with, "I have no expectations to start with, but I am only interested women who want a full relationship, and I am not interested in playing the maybe someday game." She then wrote back and started talking about how much she enjoys physical intimacy... go figure.

 

What the hell is wrong with people that they feel they have to verbalize so much and assert status, etc., via computer messaging? I am getting to the point of being tired of the whole mess. Thinking about just taking a break from dating altogether until after the 1st of the year.

[hotpotato]

Bottom line, she's interested in me but doesn't want to admit it, is afraid to be vulnerable, is probably repressed in terms of her sexuality. I think she's a lost cause to be honest, but she it nice, smart and she's attractive. It's a shame because were it not for her confusion I probably would be interested.

 

What do you ladies think––lost cause or not?

 

Maybe she is trying to avoid the hump'n'dump. Someone can be emotionally unavailable but still very sexually available.

[hotpotato]

 

What the hell is wrong with people that they feel they have to verbalize so much and assert status, etc., via computer messaging? I am getting to the point of being tired of the whole mess. Thinking about just taking a break from dating altogether until after the 1st of the year.

 

Women have to because a lot of men want to hump'n'dump on the first date, get her in the sack ASAP. It's understandable to be put in the same basket as other guys, but it's very common for guys to try to bed a woman immediately in OLD.

[salparadise]

Maybe she is trying to avoid the hump'n'dump. Someone can be emotionally unavailable but still very sexually available.

 

Perhaps. I get the feeling that she's a bit clumsy, confused, doesn't know what she wants. She wants to date, wants a relationship of some sort, apparently. I'm the best candidate that she's found (so far) and she's playing silly games. She seems to think I should feel honored that she wants to be friends. Maybe she's using a different dictionary.

 

Women have to because a lot of men want to hump'n'dump on the first date, get her in the sack ASAP. It's understandable to be put in the same basket as other guys, but it's very common for guys to try to bed a woman immediately in OLD.

 

Sure. That's the way it's always been, but she saying this on the first message, which she initiated... not while I'm trying to unzip her britches. I'm growing less patient by the day it seems. Too much tension in these interactions. I need someone who's just good company to chill with.

[hotpotato]

Perhaps. I get the feeling that she's a bit clumsy, confused, doesn't know what she wants. She wants to date, wants a relationship of some sort, apparently. I'm the best candidate that she's found (so far) and she's playing silly games. She seems to think I should feel honored that she wants to be friends. Maybe she's using a different dictionary.

 

 

 

Sure. That's the way it's always been, but she saying this on the first message, which she initiated... not while I'm trying to unzip her britches. I'm growing less patient by the day it seems. Too much tension in these interactions. I need someone who's just good company to chill with.

 

I dont blame her, I'd say it on the first message,too.

[MrTurk]

she's holding up her shield with both hands. What it feels like from my perspective is that she wants me to pursue while being held at arm's length by her "just friends" status.

 

THATS the game many women play. Women on here have ADMITTED that they will gauge a guys interest on how much they pursue.

 

Whereas guys like me and salparadise do not put up with it, and we define it as games. The rest of the dating world sees it as "part of dating".

 

I think it also puts some control in the womans mind, by dictating the status of the relationship.

 

I have seen a huge changein profiles.....with more and more women writing that they "just want to be friends, and see where it goes". This is layman's terms means...."I want to keep you on my hook, but I'm going to leave you in the water, before bringing you in my boat, because I'm fishing with more than 1 pole, and I might catch something bigger and let you go"

 

I personally FLAT OUT disagree with the "lets be friends first" terminology. I have no problem whatsoever waiting before we become intimate. But we can still kiss, and be affectionate while we travel that road.

 

I also have talked with countless women about their profiles....and just as salparadise said....once you start to question and pry a bit....the women will give you an explanation that contradicts what they wrote in their profile. I think many of them are simply writing crap in their profile to ward off certain types of guys, and certain situations, but do not wholeheartedly feel that way.

[HorseLuck]

Perhaps. I get the feeling that she's a bit clumsy, confused, doesn't know what she wants. She wants to date, wants a relationship of some sort, apparently. I'm the best candidate that she's found (so far) and she's playing silly games. She seems to think I should feel honored that she wants to be friends. Maybe she's using a different dictionary.

 

That's funny. I'm sorry.

 

Hmmm, I've been told this in the relationships I've been in. That I sometimes come across as distant or appear cold and they feel they have to do the chasing to keep me interested because they fear losing me.

 

That I'm withholding how I feel when there's an issue or withholding intimacy. Underneath it are self-esteem problems, fear of rejection, blah blah blah. Behind the emotional distance are far deeper issues at the core of it. In my opinion anyway.

 

Can say I've improved. Therapy has helped? It still takes time in relationships for me to really open up. Learning how to be more assertive as well (it was an always issue) and address how I feel/not feel afraid to appear weak or vulnerable has also helped. But yes I agree with another poster, it is about control in a sense.

Edited September 30, 2013 by HorseLuck

[salparadise]

That's funny. I'm sorry.

 

Hmmm, I've been told this in the relationships I've been in. That I sometimes come across as distant or appear cold and they feel they have to do the chasing to keep me interested because they fear losing me.

 

That I'm withholding how I feel when there's an issue or withholding intimacy. Underneath it are self-esteem problems, fear of rejection, blah blah blah. Behind the emotional distance are far deeper issues at the core of it. In my opinion anyway.

 

Can say I've improved. Therapy has helped? It still takes time in relationships for me to really open up. Learning how to be more assertive as well (it was an always issue) and address how I feel/not feel afraid to appear weak or vulnerable has also helped. But yes I agree with another poster, it is about control in a sense.

 

I think you've got a good handle on the underlying motivations. She has these fears and insecurities that she's compensating for at the same time she really wants connection, affection and trust. So when I don't pursue she reaches out, then when I respond she withdraws. She's trying to maintain a balance somewhere between guarded and safe vs. involved and feeling vulnerable.

 

I am not finding this appealing. I need someone who is comfortable enough in her own skin to both express interest, affection and progress steadily at a pace that seems natural. I need to resist the urge to compensate for what she's not contributing by working twice as hard to make her feel secure. This pattern is all too familiar. It sets up a dynamic wherein the man assumes responsibility for her feelings, making her whole, and that's a no-win in the long term.

 

PS: We are talking about two different women––the one who included the warning in the first message is not the same one I went out with.

Edited October 1, 2013 by salparadise

[MrTurk]

I am not finding this appealing. I need someone who is comfortable enough in her own skin to both express interest, affection and progress steadily at a pace that seems natural.

 

Good luck with that. Thats a rare commodity in women nowadays. Its seems they all project an outward image to us guys, but underneath they seem to be a total wreck, struggling with 20 different issues.

 

And NO this isnt my opinion. This has been told to me by women, straight from the horses mouth. I have an innate ability when talking to women, if given enough time, to get them to open up. And many of them have told me how they try to write their profile this way or that, or try to act this or way or that, to put up this front, hoping they can hide their issues, and get guys to like them.

 

Many women have problems deep down inside that they struggle with on a daily basis. You know it, and I know it. So dont kill the messenger.

Edited October 1, 2013 by MrTurk

[RedRobin]

I personally FLAT OUT disagree with the "lets be friends first" terminology. I have no problem whatsoever waiting before we become intimate. But we can still kiss, and be affectionate while we travel that road.

 

Define 'waiting'. Because when I hear this from a guy, it is him trying to weasel into my pants at every opportunity, and every discussion involves some kind of sexy talk because he's insecure about my level of interest. Or maybe he has nothing else to talk about or do. Who knows?

 

In the OLD world, if you aren't hopping in bed by 3-5 dates, then that constitutes 'waiting'...

 

But the reality is, you are still a stranger. I wouldn't go up to some random guy anywhere and say, "hey, I've known you an equivalent of 3 dates * 1.5 hours = less time than it takes me to clean my house and wash my car. How about we swap body fluids??"

 

When people on an OLD profile say the want to be 'friends first' what it means is they don't want to be locked into making a romantic decision with someone who is essentially a stranger.

 

Out IRL, most people don't date those they don't know in some other way first, so it is different.

[hotpotato]

That's funny. I'm sorry.

 

Hmmm, I've been told this in the relationships I've been in. That I sometimes come across as distant or appear cold and they feel they have to do the chasing to keep me interested because they fear losing me.

 

That I'm withholding how I feel when there's an issue or withholding intimacy. Underneath it are self-esteem problems, fear of rejection, blah blah blah. Behind the emotional distance are far deeper issues at the core of it. In my opinion anyway.

 

Can say I've improved. Therapy has helped? It still takes time in relationships for me to really open up. Learning how to be more assertive as well (it was an always issue) and address how I feel/not feel afraid to appear weak or vulnerable has also helped. But yes I agree with another poster, it is about control in a sense.

 

This was more what I was looking for.

 

There is one guy I can open up to-my ex. We've known each other for about 7 years, and I feel like I can

 

Guys have told me I am "enigmatic." Yes, the same word from different guys.

[hotpotato]

Good luck with that. Thats a rare commodity in women nowadays. Its seems they all project an outward image to us guys, but underneath they seem to be a total wreck, struggling with 20 different issues.

 

And NO this isnt my opinion. This has been told to me by women, straight from the horses mouth. I have an innate ability when talking to women, if given enough time, to get them to open up. And many of them have told me how they try to write their profile this way or that, or try to act this or way or that, to put up this front, hoping they can hide their issues, and get guys to like them.

Many women have problems deep down inside that they struggle with on a daily basis. You know it, and I know it. So dont kill the messenger.

 

...Which everyone does. Most people don't air their dirty laundry in the beginning.

[MrTurk]

...Which everyone does. Most people don't air their dirty laundry in the beginning.

 

I'm talking about after 2 or 3 conversations. Not 6 months down the road. I think they open up because I ask, and question what they wrote in their profile, and why they wrote it. So yes...its is in the beginning.

 

They give me the feeling that they want to "come clean" and say it how it is. Maybe I give them that comfortable feeling, that feeling that they can be honest with me. Maybe its the same reason they disappear after a short time. They see me as a nice guy they can talk to.....instead of that guy they play games with and are attracted to.

 

I think theres a definite separation there. Many women approach a situation differently, based on whether or not she is attracted to a guy she can open up with and talk to VS a guy she hides her true feelings from since she wants him to like her.

 

I do not do that. I present myself as the same person no matter who I am dealing with. Be it at work, with family, people I've known for a long time, or a woman I just met 5 mins ago.

[FitChick]

I have seen a huge changein profiles.....with more and more women writing that they "just want to be friends, and see where it goes". This is layman's terms means...."I want to keep you on my hook, but I'm going to leave you in the water, before bringing you in my boat, because I'm fishing with more than 1 pole, and I might catch something bigger and let you go"

Men are the same way except I interpret that phrase as just wanting a fling with no promises and no strings, "Just see how it goes."