MM's intentions

[beenburned]

I have noticed several posts by FOW that say the MM told them from the beginning of the affair that "he was not leaving his wife/marriage".

 

The OW willingly agree to engage in the affair knowing the above information. Later on, when more feelings develop, they ask him to get a divorce because they want to be with him permanently.

 

When he refuses ,and restates his intentions of staying married, the OW gets hurt and angry. They eventually stop the affair because the MM won't commit to them.(leave his wife)

 

My question is: If you were never lied to from the beginning of the affair about the MM's intentions, why would you get angry with him when he won't change his mind? And even sometimes get angry at his wife, no matter whether she knows about the affair or not?

[Summer Breeze]

I have noticed several posts by FOW that say the MM told them from the beginning of the affair that "he was not leaving his wife/marriage".

 

The OW willingly agree to engage in the affair knowing the above information. Later on, when more feelings develop, they ask him to get a divorce because they want to be with him permanently.

 

When he refuses ,and restates his intentions of staying married, the OW gets hurt and angry. They eventually stop the affair because the MM won't commit to them.(leave his wife)

 

My question is: If you were never lied to from the beginning of the affair about the MM's intentions, why would you get angry with him when he won't change his mind? And even sometimes get angry at his wife, no matter whether she knows about the affair or not?

 

 

I didn't get angry with him. We were in a great place and the R was the best it had ever been. That's when I started wanting more. I told him and let him know the choice was now his -- either leave or I end it. I knew he wouldn't and he didn't. I ended it. I was never angry with him and there wasn't any reason at all to be angry with his W. He never let go. He sent flowers a few times a year and emailed every so often too. I didn't respond to anything until the D was close to being final.

[cocorico]

I have noticed several posts by FOW that say the MM told them from the beginning of the affair that "he was not leaving his wife/marriage".

 

The OW willingly agree to engage in the affair knowing the above information. Later on, when more feelings develop, they ask him to get a divorce because they want to be with him permanently.

 

When he refuses ,and restates his intentions of staying married, the OW gets hurt and angry. They eventually stop the affair because the MM won't commit to them.(leave his wife)

 

My question is: If you were never lied to from the beginning of the affair about the MM's intentions, why would you get angry with him when he won't change his mind? And even sometimes get angry at his wife, no matter whether she knows about the affair or not?

 

I don't quite get that either, but I imagine it's based on the assumption that because you are (or imagine that you are) so in tune, your changing expectations are matched by his. I think the same thing happens in Ms too, over time. Both partners enter the M agreeing they never want kids, then one partner starts to want them, and imagines or assumes that the other just share their (new) view on this, since they are so attuned, for example. I think that's the danger with assuming you know where the other person is at, without expressly testing your assumptions. How many partners are completely gobsmacked when their spouse of decades suddenly announces they want a D, when they were themselves planning an anniversary cruise, thinking it was all just dandy? Assumption is a dangerous beast.

[beenburned]

SB,

 

I've always admired how you handled d-day! I think that answering the BW's questions gave her the truth in which to base her decisions on.(in case her H was just telling her lies)

 

I don't remember how your XMM's divorce came about after you dropped him.

Did she file for a divorce or did he?

 

coco,

 

That is very true! A person's perception of any given situation is influenced by their own way of thinking.

 

However, if the other person deliberately leads you to believe your perception is correct, then the blame is totally theirs.

[Summer Breeze]

SB,

 

I've always admired how you handled d-day! I think that answering the BW's questions gave her the truth in which to base her decisions on.(in case her H was just telling her lies)

 

I don't remember how your XMM's divorce came about after you dropped him.

Did she file for a divorce or did he?

 

coco,

 

That is very true! A person's perception of any given situation is influenced by their own way of thinking.

 

However, if the other person deliberately leads you to believe your perception is correct, then the blame is totally theirs.

 

Thanks for that beenburned. I told dMM from the start I'd never dodge his xW if she contacted me and I'd always tell her the truth. I did.

 

He filed a few years after I ended things. He moved out a little while before he filed and started counselling soon after. He sent me some emails while it was all going on but I didn't check the account that often and some emails I never read so things were well under way before I knew. It took a few months before I contacted him and I didn't see him till a month after the D was final. Upon the excellent advice I've gotten here we're taking it slowly and seeing what's there now.

 

Thanks again. And you're right he told her a whole lot of lies and laced some truth in it when it served his purpose. He told me the other day he couldn't see how either of us could love or want him then.

[MissBee]

I have noticed several posts by FOW that say the MM told them from the beginning of the affair that "he was not leaving his wife/marriage".

 

The OW willingly agree to engage in the affair knowing the above information. Later on, when more feelings develop, they ask him to get a divorce because they want to be with him permanently.

 

When he refuses ,and restates his intentions of staying married, the OW gets hurt and angry. They eventually stop the affair because the MM won't commit to them.(leave his wife)

 

My question is: If you were never lied to from the beginning of the affair about the MM's intentions, why would you get angry with him when he won't change his mind? And even sometimes get angry at his wife, no matter whether she knows about the affair or not?

 

People do this in single relationships as well. Either know from the beginning that what they and the other person want are incompatible, but hope they will 'change their mind'. Or in the beginning it was compatible but things changed and then because they are in love, they feel swindled when the other person doesn't seem to be at the level to throw it all away for them or take it to the level they want.

 

The difference with single relationships though is that usually there isn't an obvious glass ceiling like with a MM saying he isn't leaving. Usually even if you start out casually with a single guy, if your feelings and his should increase to where you want a commitment, it can be a fairly easy transition. With a MM though...it's not as easy and often does not happen. That is why when OW come here to say they don't want more so it's fine...I shake my head, because while it may be true now, the nature of the beast is that usually feelings increase and then what's rosy now won't be so fun when you hit the glass ceiling and it cannot progress how you'd like.

[cocorico]

coco,

 

That is very true! A person's perception of any given situation is influenced by their own way of thinking.

 

However, if the other person deliberately leads you to believe your perception is correct, then the blame is totally theirs.

 

Oh, absolutely! If someone is communicating intentions, then it is not an assumption, it is a conclusion based on the evidence you have before you. That's an entirely different matter!

[cocorico]

That is why when OW come here to say they don't want more so it's fine...I shake my head, because while it may be true now, the nature of the beast is that usually feelings increase and then what's rosy now won't be so fun when you hit the glass ceiling and it cannot progress how you'd like.

 

This gets complicated because sometimes one person's intention changes with time (mostly the OW, but sometimes the MM) while the other doesn't, leading to disparity. But other times, both people's intentions change in synch, and the MM who announced at the outset an intention to remain in the M decides to leave the M to be with the OW who has now decided she wants more... And the really difficult bit is you can never tell in advance which scenario you're going to land up with.

 

So while it may be a "glass ceiling" it is paper thin in places and too thick to shatter in others.

[beenburned]

Thanks everyone for the great thoughts on this subject! I guess it pertains more to OW that turn into bunny boilers after the MM refuses to leave his wife.

 

I read a good point by Breathless on how different their reasons(her's and MM's) were for entering into an affair. Makes sense that it could also be different reasons for them ending or continuing an affair.

[2sure]

Relationships change (even relationships that we dont all approve of!).

 

In a marriage for example...your spouse probably promised to remain faithful. And then - I dunno, midlife or another crisis happens, or you grow far far apart - and there goes being faithful.

 

A longterm friendship surprisingly grows to become something more.

With the change of feelings, comes a change in expectations.

 

An OW and MM who had no expectations from an affair other than basically FWB...they can change for one partner or both.

 

Seems to me that many of the OW (and BS) that become the "Bunny Boilers" are those that have been lied to the most. The others are just Born That Way. Im a little dicey myself sometimes.

[Got it]

Thanks everyone for the great thoughts on this subject! I guess it pertains more to OW that turn into bunny boilers after the MM refuses to leave his wife.

 

I read a good point by Breathless on how different their reasons(her's and MM's) were for entering into an affair. Makes sense that it could also be different reasons for them ending or continuing an affair.

 

I think there are a few reasons why. One, a person doesn't believe it, two they believe it, agree to it and then feelings get involved and suddenly they want something else (similarly to someone that doesn't want kids and then starts wanting kids). Three, it is a competition and the drive is to get them to change their mind, four they weren't listening to what was being said.

 

And five, because it wasn't clearly articulated to begin with or a number of conflicting action/statements.

[LadyGrey]

Some of the problem lies in that most women assume that if a man is cheating he is looking to get out of the marriage, he is looking for a replacement, there are serious issues in the marriage or else he wouldn't cheat. Even if it's not spoken of, a lot of women commonly view cheating as for the above reasons and sometimes despite proclamations of the opposite. I think young women tend to believe that great sex equals love and so they conclude that hey he is having great sex, so it must be love for him too. MM may lie and say they love the ow to continue getting the great sex/ego strokes, etc.

 

As we know women more often cheat for all the above reasons, so they assume the same logic applies to men, faulty, but it's common. IMO

 

So..........there lies how someone can go over the edge, believing in a false assumptions or outright lies in a lot of cases.

[MissBee]

Some of the problem lies in that most women assume that if a man is cheating he is looking to get out of the marriage, he is looking for a replacement, there are serious issues in the marriage or else he wouldn't cheat. Even if it's not spoken of, a lot of women commonly view cheating as for the above reasons and sometimes despite proclamations of the opposite. I think young women tend to believe that great sex equals love and so they conclude that hey he is having great sex, so it must be love for him too. MM may lie and say they love the ow to continue getting the great sex/ego strokes, etc.

 

As we know women more often cheat for all the above reasons, so they assume the same logic applies to men, faulty, but it's common. IMO

 

So..........there lies how someone can go over the edge, believing in a false assumptions or outright lies in a lot of cases.

 

This is very true and also a factor.

[TigerCub]

I was thinking of the OP's question and it kind of made me think how the same question can apply to a BS that takes a WS back and gets cheated on again.

 

Because really after the first D-Day - the Ws's true colors are clear and their "morals & values" are out there for the BS to see and so after the BS forgives them, why is it such a hurtful shock to be cheated on the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th time even?

 

The quote below kind of answers my question - that maybe that BS believed a false assumption (that their WS is truly remorseful and wants to recommit and be good and stay) -

 

much like the OW believes that although MM went into it for a NSA kind of thing - he fell in love and could possibly change his mind and want to be with the OW only (since he loves her ) - or so he says.

 

Beneath it all, I think it boils down to people denying what they truly want inside and going into a situation with the best of intentions and hoping that things will turn out their way.

 

 

So..........there lies how someone can go over the edge, believing in a false assumptions or outright lies in a lot of cases.

[beenburned]

LadyGrey,

 

What you mentioned is exactly the impression most OW get when they wonder why MM is cheating on his wife.

[2sure]

I've had both more than once and in my experience a marriage is much more of an investment than an affair. Thats why for me, it Was nothing to end an affair but important to give my marriage another shot.

 

Sometimes OW thinks the problem is that the MM is cheating and tht leaving his wife would solve that. Sometimes a BS thinks the cheating is a symptom of a problem that can be solved.

 

Both totally valid.

[Got it]

I've had both more than once and in my experience a marriage is much more of an investment than an affair. Thats why for me, it Was nothing to end an affair but important to give my marriage another shot.

 

Sometimes OW thinks the problem is that the MM is cheating and tht leaving his wife would solve that. Sometimes a BS thinks the cheating is a symptom of a problem that can be solved.

 

Both totally valid.

 

I think with the bolded it is more about how much you currently value either relationship. I went the opposite way as by that time the marriage held little value to me and was not worth further work. The affair was not at that stage, held more potential and felt that there was more to work with. But this would be a very subjective analysis obviously.

 

I agree with the latter point. Spot on.

[2sure]

I agree, yes...the importance of the relationship to you is what it ends up to be about. Still for me...the marriage investment wasn't only about how I felt..I had my daughter, the house, the school...you know, the logistics everyone has. And they are important...not important enough to stay in a bad marriage, but enough to make it worth fighting for if you can.

 

Just Moving , banking, etc. In an affair...you say goodbye. Painful sure but it beats moving , changing your name, seeing your kid part time, etc.

[MissBee]

I agree, yes...the importance of the relationship to you is what it ends up to be about. Still for me...the marriage investment wasn't only about how I felt..I had my daughter, the house, the school...you know, the logistics everyone has. And they are important...not important enough to stay in a bad marriage, but enough to make it worth fighting for if you can.

 

Just Moving , banking, etc. In an affair...you say goodbye. Painful sure but it beats moving , changing your name, seeing your kid part time, etc.

 

This is true.

 

I even consider my own A and the fact that he wasn't married and why I allowed myself to go there. I didn't think to ask about his status, as when we first met I knew he had a girlfriend, but when he started talking to me more romantically, some months later, I simply assumed they broke up. Had they been married, I wouldn't have simply assumed he got a divorce . It's almost common sense to realize marriage takes more, is more of an investment and one has to go through a whole process to leave a marriage versus a girlfriend, versus an affair partner. I expected that people dating break up more easily without much fanfare, so I just assumed that's what occurred, whereas married people don't divorce quietly often, but it's usually a whole process esp if they have kids. I've heard people be flip about no longer being in a relationship, like 'Oh yea me and Tim broke up some months back" but hardly hear people who divorce just mention it offhand like "Yea, oh my husband? We divorced last month". It's usually a more involved thing that produces marked changes. Especially when you consider marriage often bridges families, and so when you separate, it's not like it's just you and that person saying bye, but it also affects other relationships in your life.

 

If marriage wasn't more of an investment it wouldn't be so hard for all these MM/MW who can't leave because of XYZ and although they are so unhappy...whereas most can toss their APs under the bus. It's not a dig at the relationship or to say the person didn't care or love you, but the choice to marry someone is obviously a more involved one (for most people) than the choice to date someone or have an A on the side.

 

I think one can invest more emotionally into an A than their M...but it doesn't really change that M still has literal, tangible, logistical investments as well as intangible ones (security, comfort, status, family relationships) that are more involved than just the romantic feelings between two people.

Edited November 16, 2012 by MissBee

[BrokenPrincess]

 

It's not a dig at the relationship or to say the person didn't care or love you, but the choice to marry someone is obviously a more involved one (for most people) than the choice to date someone or have an A on the side.

 

I think one can invest more emotionally into an A than their M...but it doesn't really change that M still has literal, tangible, logistical investments as well as intangible ones (security, comfort, status, family relationships) that are more involved than just the romantic feelings between two people.

 

 

My xMM and I were on the same page right up until DDay- no plans to leave our spouses or to end our A. BUT now that I'm a month NC and processing a roller coaster of emotions, a part of me (probably the ego part lol) IS a little hurt that he could just immediately say goodbye to me to go focus on his M. This comment struck a chord and reminded me again that there's so much more involved than just the little fantasy world we enjoyed together.

[Got it]

I agree, yes...the importance of the relationship to you is what it ends up to be about. Still for me...the marriage investment wasn't only about how I felt..I had my daughter, the house, the school...you know, the logistics everyone has. And they are important...not important enough to stay in a bad marriage, but enough to make it worth fighting for if you can.

 

Just Moving , banking, etc. In an affair...you say goodbye. Painful sure but it beats moving , changing your name, seeing your kid part time, etc.

 

I can't speak on the kid piece and that is a major factor for parents (as well it should be) but I really hope that changing your bank account wasn't a factor on whether or not you would stayed married.

 

All those pieces are really easy to change. Moved out of the house, started anew, got a new bank account , and all was fairly easy. Got new furniture as well which was nice and for the first time got to pick out furniture with just my interests and thoughts involved! (so silver lining!) And I never changed my name when I married so that piece was easy. I hyphened on my own but never legally had it changed.

 

I have to say being out of the marriage and especially when dMM was LD, I REALLY got to enjoy my alone time. I had never been alone in my life until then and there are so many nice things about not having to worry about anyone else in your evenings. Just me, chick TV, and the cats. All warm and cozy.

 

Long t/j short, life is an adventure. I didn't see the point in letting the little life "to do's" to be a factor in my happiness or my life decisions. But then divorce wasn't that difficult either. It was all pretty uneventful and dare I say . . . simple.

[MissBee]

My xMM and I were on the same page right up until DDay- no plans to leave our spouses or to end our A. BUT now that I'm a month NC and processing a roller coaster of emotions, a part of me (probably the ego part lol) IS a little hurt that he could just immediately say goodbye to me to go focus on his M. This comment struck a chord and reminded me again that there's so much more involved than just the little fantasy world we enjoyed together.

 

I can relate to this.

 

I was very aware of this during my A and also in a LDR I had. The nature of those two can often be very similar. It's easier in As and LDRs for the honeymoon period to be dragged out or for you simply, through logistics of the situation, not really know how certain things would play out. For a large chunk of time it's just you imagining it or getting snippets of it and it can become a very insular relationship.

 

Insular relationships promote a lot more fantasy and As, obviously being secret, have to be insular most times or very one-sided. For a relationship to be solid, it can't just be just about you two, 24/7, all the time, but about you as a whole person, who you are with your family, friends, the people you love seeing this person and how they treat you and those they love also knowing you and just seeing how this person fits with the regular life you lead. I therefore find it interesting when OW say everyone knows about their married boyfriend, but the married boyfriend's family and friends often know nothing about them. Then it kind of reminds me of someone with an imaginary friend lol. I got really upset about this in my A. It was very apparent to me that as much as I knew him and loved him...I only knew him as he was in an insular way with me and I did not have the bigger picture, and I really felt that that was such a disservice.

 

I think having a community that supports your relationship very important and I was reading a study saying that one reason people divorce a lot in America is because people are very individualistic and often don't see their romantic relationships as a communal affair, as a joining of families, they don't value familial approval and support about it so often times have little built in social mechanisms to sustain them or to point out that they may be heading down the wrong path, whereas in cultures where marriages thrive, it is often because there is usually a community of people supporting the couple, who give advice to them before and after the marriage and because it isn't insular and individualistic, people "see" each other a lot easier outside of just romance.

 

But yea...in all relationships, we can be inlove and giddy and it's about us and how we feel...but a relationship is more than just your emotional investment and being inlove. You can fall inlove online and have an e-relationship and invest lots of time into calls, texts, skype, emails, regular mail....yet often when it becomes real time, people are in for sometimes unpleasant surprises. They thought they knew this person so well...but the truth is, their interactions were often limited and more focused on the narrow aspects of the romantic relationship versus seeing a large picture of who this person is in their entirety.

[2sure]

I can't speak on the kid piece and that is a major factor for parents (as well it should be) but I really hope that changing your bank account wasn't a factor on whether or not you would stayed married.

 

All those pieces are really easy to change. Moved out of the house, started anew, got a new bank account , and all was fairly easy. Got new furniture as well which was nice and for the first time got to pick out furniture with just my interests and thoughts involved! (so silver lining!) And I never changed my name when I married so that piece was easy. I hyphened on my own but never legally had it changed.

 

I have to say being out of the marriage and especially when dMM was LD, I REALLY got to enjoy my alone time. I had never been alone in my life until then and there are so many nice things about not having to worry about anyone else in your evenings. Just me, chick TV, and the cats. All warm and cozy.

 

Long t/j short, life is an adventure. I didn't see the point in letting the little life "to do's" to be a factor in my happiness or my life decisions. But then divorce wasn't that difficult either. It was all pretty uneventful and dare I say . . . simple.

 

Sounds like you didn't have much to change and were able to easily leave the marriage. Without children or shared assets like homes and retirements, yes ..that would be easy. But a lot of people do have kids and homes, the logistics I referred to.