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A single woman for the rest of your life.


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[Long post, but worth reading IMHO, I try to keep it interesting]

 

Let me start this one off by explaining that I don't plan on changing how I feel about this, and I'm seeking validation, not empathy. Most likely you and I feel differently about this subject, and I'm asking for an assesment of mine, not a persuasive treatise on yours. I would ask you to suspend your judgement of me personally, whether because I'm young, inexperienced, or whatever. For a little background information, I'm fifteen years old, and have always liked (and eventually loved) the same girl. This is a matter of selection, not oppurtunity. I do have plenty of girl-friends, and always have, and I've always had the oppurtunity to seek a romantic relationship with perfectly fine girls, I just never have. Sorry for the breach of modesty, the point I was trying to make is, I've never had another relationship not because I'm lazy, but because I didn't want to.

 

I've also moved around a lot. I've been to eight schools in eleven years, counting kindergarten, often leaving in mid-year. My life is generally crisis-free, I didn't mean to imply otherwise, I've just had to become more socially flexible. I have no social, emotional, or mental disorders, and I'm generally healthy, and I get along well with people. However, I've always been more aware of my ambition than my position. What I mean by this is, I value my future a lot. I feel like I've done everything I need to do in my childhood, and now I'm just "doing time" until I can become an adult. There comes that age when all of your friends have "girlfriends", that they "ask out". This consists of asking a girl "Will you go out with me?", and then proceding to never actually go out with her. As in, you now have a girl who is your girlfriend, but you never go anywhere or do anything with her, you simply have claimed her as yours, talk with her during recesss, maybe carry her books chivalrously, and do these activities with no other girl, as she'd do it with no other boys. I never participated in this ritual, and it wasn't because I was scared to, but more because I was perfectly fine doing all of those things with girls without actually placing a flag upon them. As years go by, the sixth grade girlfriend migrates into the eighth grade girlfriend, and slowly more responsibilities are pushed onto you. In seventh grade maybe you have to take her to a movie, In eighth you have to kiss her during Truth or Dare, or whatever, you get the picture.

 

I found all of this needlessly self-important, and filled with an element of drama that I found much more fun to watch other people go through, than to partake in myself. The guys never razzed me too bad for not having a girlfriend, because I tended to help them out with theirs. Similairly the girls didn't ostracize me, because it wasn't that I was afraid of them, it was that I never pursued a romantic relationship with them. (Also the fact that I wasn't interested in them made me more interesting to them, but that's just female nueroses I guess.)

 

But principles exist to be forgotten. I eventually found a girl who was intelligent (I don't use the word lightly, she's brilliant, not just book-smart, but incredibly quick-witted), beautiful, compassionate, and compatible. Not just, "I could see myself with her" compatible, she's "I can't see myself without her" compatible. It is unquestionable that we love each other. Normally this would seem typical of a teenage relationship, but I'm not the one to forgoe my ambition for my position. I live for my future, so if I thought a relationship wasn't a healthy one, I wouldn't pursue it. This is not normal, I understand, and it's the reason I've never been in another relationship.

 

Now it's my hobby to analyze others, and I know a lot about her. Now we're at a point where we have complete trust in each other, and the vulnerableness is blissful. But there was a time when it was a big deal to talk to each other about ourselves, which is when I truly fell in love with her, upon realizing that she's basically "me with a thirty six c" (I'm not a pig, she laughed when I said that, maybe you had to be there). I don't mean that we're exact clones of each other, we do have seperate interests as well, but on the important stuff, we agree. She is a Republican though, but she's second hand, and once I pry her away from her parents, I'm sure I can make a Civil Libertarian out of her :p We also disagree sometimes, and have fun talking about it, it's not like it's a "yesman" sort of relationship, which is good, I love to debate and would get bored sick of people agreeing with me all of the time. Anyway, just so you know, she's perfect, although I'd love her even if she wasn't.

 

Enough background information, and on to my question. [Watch me now as I proceed to add more background information] I'm a Roman Catholic, judge me all you want, but leave it to PM or a seperate thread, because I don't feel like defending that at this venue. I believe in God, and accept the teachings of the Church. Understand that intellectually, I accept these teachings because they allow me to feel good with God, not because I would blindly accept arbitrary doctrine. I run the Church in my life, I don't let it run mine. However, that doesn't mean that I ignore certain parts of the rules because they are unpopular. I believe that one should have sex with one person, their spouse.

 

If you feel that my credibility is sinking, I hope you realize that this is as a result of your own prejudices, and not because I'm a lunatic. There was a time in which virgin marriage was the societal norm. I don't feel that because society has sexually enlightened themselves that it's okay for me to ignore what I personally feel is right. One thing I definitely do, without question, is suspend my judgment of other people. You've noticed that I'm not critical of anyone who has sex before marriage, it's their life and they can choose to live it however they want. I wouldn't want you to live your life a certain way because I say so, I'd want you to do what you feel is right. My personal choice is to believe in chastity, and I hope you are mature enough to see that not as a weakness, but as an informed personal choice, that I feel good about making. As far as my ability to give advice to other people, you can ask me for advice about having sex with dogs, and I'd be much more inclined to tell you about local beastiality statutes or ways to prevent animal-canine diseases, rather than detail your descent to Hell. (Sidetracking even more, I don't believe in Hell, but PM or seperate thread, I've already made my decisions).

 

My question now is, Is it possible to find the one woman you love, at fifteen, and never love anyone else? I don't even really know what my question is actually, I guess I'd rather have a discussion with a bunch of people that I don't know about my life, just to see if I can feel better about this, or not, whatever. Talk to me. Speaking of talking, I have talked to her about this, and she says that she is comfortable with me as the only person she would ever be with. We both gave each other the option of dating people during the time we were away. I at least gave her this option, because I felt like there's no need to string along someone you can't see, and she might as well, as I put it, "have her fun now". I talked with her specifically about "learning" things, in that some relationships, that are imperfect or even unhealthy, do help you, in that they serve, if only, to endow upon you the human experiences neccessary to have a healthy or ideal relationship in the future. She said (and I quote, I log all of our AIM conversations in Richard Nixonesque fashion) "I do not want to be with anyone but you. And I also believe that I will learn everything I will ever need to know from you...from us. So no, I will not miss those relationships. Not when you're my alternative."

 

I guess that did it for me, we know we are going to finish high school and complete our obligations as children, and then begin our own lives together. That's just what we want to do. Because I don't want children until I'm done with school, we won't be marrying each other until after Law School. Thanks for reading, thoughts appreciated, especially if you can tell me what I want to hear, or if you can engage me with what I don't ;)

 

additionally added: It's 3 am, so you'll have to wait until tommorow morning for me to respond to your responses, if any. good night all, it's nice to be back

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this strikes me as an un-question. i refuse to believe that you are extracting the exact sentence response you desire and forsaking all other possible responses.

 

my spidey senses are telling me you simply want to share information about your love and your hopes, but felt the impetus to form it as a question so as to cloak the fun and natural dramatic/self-important elements of it. why bother? i think it's generally true that we love ourselves more when we have a exigent love interest.

 

really, you have answered your own question already:

 

It is unquestionable that we love each other.

 

there's no new information strangers on forum can offer you but praise and reflections of your glory. obviously this is a sustainable love.

 

 

as a side note, i'll tell you as a woman that a couple of lines unnerved me, even if they were meant in jest:

 

which is when I truly fell in love with her, upon realizing that she's basically "me with a thirty six c"

 

She is a Republican though, but she's second hand, and once I pry her away from her parents, I'm sure I can make a Civil Libertarian out of her :p

 

don't get me wrong. i think you have good reason to be a little narcissistic. :) i was just interested in how much your post was *not* about her.

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I didn't try to masquerade it as a question, and did make a few references to the fact that I'm not really asking for anyone to change my opinion, nor was I sure what exactly it was that I want from you. I certainly resent the implication that I had to phrase it as a question in order to ramble on about myself for a couple of hours in order to receive praise or reflections on said glory. Rather, I'll concede to rambling on about myself in order to provoke you to talk about whether you think it's possible to wing it without experience. I guess in a perfect world, I would have the experience, but it'd be stupid to give up what I have.

 

Maybe I'm just incoherent tonight, but I honestly do care what you think. You are right about what you say, just wrong about my intentions. This post *wasn't* about her, but about me, as it's not her who worries about this, it's me.

 

As for the lines that unnerve you, I really don't know what to say. I feel comfortable enough with her to make a joke based on a truth, that involves her breasts, without degrading her. If she was "unnerved" as well, maybe I'd feel different, but I think you're just taking it the wrong way. What I meant in this post by the first line, was that when it comes to true character, I feel that we share each other's values, and if you let the second part overshadow that, perhaps you're not the kinda gal that would enjoy my humor. The comment about her being a Republican in no way meant to imply that Republicans have lame political stances, but more to illustrate that even though my beliefs are different than hers, I still feel comfortable talking politically with her. It wasn't that she was a woman that made her Republicanism weak, it's that she adopted the beliefs of her parents as her own, which men do as well. Whatever, it's you, not me :p

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oh my goodness! i definitely had no intention of offending you. you're obviously a fantastic intelligent guy who can withstand a little challenging sass.

 

re: the humour. i have similar jokes with my guy, as well, and i do understand the context of the humour. i agree that it's cool to admit that romantic love is often fundamentally auto-erotic. this is what makes the jokes funny. but i stand my ground: if my bf told me he loved me because i was a feminine version of him, i would not get upset, of course, but i would note it as an indication of character that this is his highest compliment.

 

(i might respond by saying he's just like me but with a literal phallus.)

 

as for the praise in post: ok. i'm sure i misunderstood. i suppose more than anything i was confused by what other response could be allowed within the boundaries outlined. i understand better now, and i apologize. :)

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Hopeovexperience

Healthy relationship for who?

 

You are her world, she is you with breasts, everything she thinks she needs to know she will learn from you??? Wow, I wish I'd met someone who would relieve me of all responsibiilty for my own self-development when I was still at school. How much more fulfilled I would have been.

 

I'm sure you're both as bright as buttons. You obviously have a well developed understanding of life and love and this will protect you go forward towards your guaranteed future success and happiness.

 

;)

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Hopeovexperience

Having read your post again and my reply, it seems that what you are seeking is some form of guarantee that having gone about this the right way and chosen well, everything will be good for ever.

 

It might. It might not.

 

If you're happy right now, you're doing the right thing.

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My question now is, Is it possible to find the one woman you love, at fifteen, and never love anyone else?

 

Yes, it is "possible." Is it likely? No.

 

Erotic love is not exclusive nor can it be controlled. Is it possible that you and your girl friend will have complete mastery over your emotions and go through the next 70 years loving only one another despite meeting hundreds of extremely bright attractive people, and going through periods of separation?

 

Theoretically, it's possible. What will most likely happen is that both of you will encounter attractive mates in college, law school and at work. At those venues, even more serious, not to mention mature, relationships will grow, blossom and die.

 

Such is the nature of love in our time.

 

Enjoy this girl, my friend. But is she the one and only girl for you for the rest of your long natural life? No, she isn't.

Have fun, anyway. :)

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Is it possible to find the one woman you love, at fifteen, and never love anyone else?

 

Anything is possible. Is this situation likely? IMO, no. When I was 15 I was madly in love with the guy who I thought was my soul mate. Four years later I realized that we were on very different life paths. I can see that you are very mature for your age, but despite that, you really have no idea how much you are going to change over the next 5-10 years. I’m not trying to be condescending at all, but life, dreams, and goals change once you get a driver’s license, go away to college, move out on your own for the first time, etc. You may not believe me—I never believed I would change so much when I was 15. But you have only scratched the tip of the iceberg in figuring out what kind of person you are and what kind of life you want for yourself. There are so many experiences out there to have with different kinds of people. I strongly encourage you not to sell yourself short.

 

However, this could very well be “it” for you. Stranger things have happened. There’s no harm at all in trying it out and seeing what happens.

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bunnyloveisbest

after law school? both of you intend to be attorneys? how formidable. i guess if you knew each other before you become attorneys, it might be different. As far as i know, going out with fellow lawyers means arguments that start with 'define [term]' and will be interspersed with interlocutory arguments about irrelevancy.

 

Which brings me to the next point. All that stuff about catholicism and what you believe in is irrelevant to the question that you were ultimately asking. It seems to be more of a verbal exercise to show your depth of intellectual analysis/knowledge of civil libertarianism. i understand what you are saying and i think it is astounding that you have that kind of reasoning skill at your age (assuming you are in high school) and the reasoning skills to have worked it out. however, it is irrelevant both to the question that was being asked and as background information. Recognise that, and try to curb your natural intellectual arrogance. you have the makings of a fine attorney, but no one likes pomposity in the office, no matter how high his GPA is or whether he came from Harvard/Yale. let us not perpetuate the bad image surrounding the legal industry.

 

As for "fulfilling your obligations as children", that is such a naive and immature thing to say. Enjoy yourself at any and every stage of your life, especially when you're young, and try to avoid labelling said stages. You have no idea of what obligations actually are, else you would not throw the word around so blithely. Maturity cannot be learned in books, but only through real life experience. And without the maturity, well, you may get the grades, but not everyone who gets a 4.0 GPA or a first class law degree will turn out to be a rainmaker in practice. at the end of the day, especially in law, your academic records may get you in the door, but they will never be enough to make you partner.

 

Re the love situation - a bit of practical advice if you really want to make it work - make sure you work in the same firm, or you'll a) never get to see each other and b) end up fancying your fellow associate.

 

but hell, before even making sure you work in the same firm, make sure you don't go to college and law school too far apart - 6 years of temptation is not easy to withstand.

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I don't get a sense of pomposity from you. You remind me of another very bright and insightful fellow I know - both of you years ahead of your peers in those respects. You have a healthy sense of yourself and your own abilities, which is fine. People with less assuredness will call you 'arrogant' but you understand there's a difference between being self-possessed and being arrogant.

 

It sounds as though you have had the remarkably good fortune to find a girl who possesses the same degrees of intellect and insight. That, in itself, is a challenge at any age. Whether things will change are, as everyone else has said, really unforeseeable. People do change as they age and the ways they change are not necessarily self-governed.

 

Having said all that, I recognize that I am not all that much different from the 15-year-old me. It was around then that I began to explore spirituality and mysticism and many of the ideas that have been at the foundation of my life outlook ever since (here, perhaps, I do have to tip my hat to Watts in Tony's thread after all :)). Experiences have broadened and deepened my understanding of people and life, but all built on the essential foundations and so I have not changed radically. Other people change a lot over time. Will she? Will you? Nobody has a crystal ball.

 

So no, I will not miss those relationships. Not when you're my alternative.

 

One of the truly critical components of a good relationship is that each person is convinced that there is no better alternative to his/her mate. If both of you can sustain that feeling throughout your lives, you will succed spectacularly together.

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Is it possible to find the one woman you love, at fifteen, and never love anyone else?

 

It is highly unlikely. If anyone does it, it will be you. As mature and high-functioning as your intellect and judgment undoubtedly are, you cannot even begin to realize how your emotions mature as well. She will also develop. As a few people have pointed out, your relationship to her has a slight tinge of control to it. Baby women (==girls) often enjoy this kind of loving control and direction, since it feels like true love, but will tire of it after some years when they realize how their own independent growth is being (unconsciously and with the best of intentions) thwarted.

 

Question for you, dyermaker: Why would a boy at 15 be thinking 70 years ahead, when those of us in our 30s and 40s are just trying to get through the week? If you and she enjoyed a friendship for a year or two, and then both moved on with grace and wisdom, would that be a bad thing?

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Jenny, pshaw, I wasn't offended by you, I was just clarifying my statement. Anyways, we talk quite a lot, the fact that she is a LOT like me was hardly my highest compliment of her, it was just indicative that we are similair people, that's all. If you're more comfortable with me being "her with a phallus", I'm proud to be so.

 

We both plan on going to Law School, but not neccesarily become attorneys, a law degree is good for a lot these days. We just want to make enough money to support our huge amount of children. But whatever we become, I'm sure that we can find something better to argue about than work.

 

 

It seems to be more of a verbal exercise to show your depth of intellectual analysis/knowledge of civil libertarianism... however, it is irrelevant both to the question that was being asked and as background information. Recognise that, and try to curb your natural intellectual arrogance.

 

bunnyloveisbest-- Uhh, no. You can hold on to that if you'd like, but you're wrong. In fact, if saying the words "civil libertarianism" counts as deep intellectual analysis, then you would by your own logic be an expert on crystal balls. I didn't lecture you on any of my beliefs. If you think that I need the reassurance of complete strangers to validate my intelligence, you are mistaken. Unfortunately with the internet, "bunnyloveisbest", you begin to make assumptions about people you don't know. Your assertion that I'm pompous and like to hear myself talk, is not only rude, but mistaken. I can do verbal exercises on my own time, not yours. I warned you that the post was not brief at the very beginning, at which point you could decide whther or not you'd like to read it--but once you've made the decision, I don't really care for a lecture on what I should and shouldn't have written. The difference between my role and your role in the situation, is that all of this really happened to me, and despite your efforts to simplify it, it is complex, at least from what I'm used to. I tried to give you enough information to understand my role in it, as I care, like I said, more about an assessment of my own feelings, than a summary of yours. There's really no need to be so condescending about it though. As far as your advice for me to work in the same firm as her, I'll see how the cookie crumbles, but to imply that If I didn't see her all day I'd immediately fall for one of my associates illustrates the extent to which you do not know me. Also for the comment about my fulfilling my obligations as a child, I think that at age fifteen, one does understand what it is that needs to be done before age eighteen in order to do exactly what I said I'm going to do. If you find this naive or immature, that's your own deal I guess, because the truth is, I literally am counting the days until I leave the house. I didn't mean to imply I had a 4.0 GPA, because I certainly don't. Instead I meant to imply that I am going to live comfortably as a child without her (She lives far away, I don't know if you gathered that), until I no longer have to.

 

As a few people have pointed out, your relationship to her has a slight tinge of control to it. Baby women (==girls) often enjoy this kind of loving control and direction, since it feels like true love, but will tire of it after some years when they realize how their own independent growth is being (unconsciously and with the best of intentions) thwarted.

 

I'm sorry if you felt the occaisonal old-fashioned joke constitutes as subjugation. I don't know if you trust me enough to assess my own control issues, but there are none. She is very independent and has no abandonment issues, or whatever it is that would cause her to *want* to be controlled. Nor is that what I'm seeking to do, even in a loving manner. Please, it's the 21st century.

 

Question for you, dyermaker: Why would a boy at 15 be thinking 70 years ahead, when those of us in our 30s and 40s are just trying to get through the week? If you and she enjoyed a friendship for a year or two, and then both moved on with grace and wisdom, would that be a bad thing?

 

No, it wouldn't be a bad thing. Nor would the alternative of not parting with her, and coming to grace and wisdom with her. I'm not as pompous as you'd all like to think I am, I understand that I have things to experience and things to learn. I wonder why it is so difficult to learn and experience those things with the same person. I understand people change, but isn't it possible that we can change together?

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isn't it possible that we can change together?

 

Of course it is. In the best of relationships, both people foster and complement each other's growth and development.

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Time for the avatar to lose the Santa hat.

 

Your story is like a book or a good screenplay, you have piqued my interest, I want to keep reading and I am rooting for you and your girl. Staying with the same person does not happen for most of us but it is possible and there is something to be said for a shared history.

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Up until the past few decades, almost ALL couples married very young and stayed together till death 'do us part'. I don't think it should be a phenomenon....it SHOULD be the norm!!! Just because society as a whole has changed their viewpoints on 'one man-one woman forever'....doesn't at all suggest the basic view point wasn't the best and purest.

 

If I could go back in time....I would love to capture the original spirit of marriage, commitment and family.

 

........what else could you ask for Dyer??? She's perfect for you.... PLUS a Republican....GREAT CHOICE...LOL!!! :)

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almost ALL couples married very young and stayed together till death 'do us part'

 

Yes, because women died in childbirth or fairly young. Life expectancy was around 40 but many people didn't live that long. And it wasn't all love - it was about having enough kids to run the farm or marrying two business families. People didn't sit around and talk about their 'needs'; they were too busy working six-and-a-half days a week or keeping the farm going. Women couldn't leave a relationship no matter how much they may have been beaten because there was no way for them to make a living.

 

Sure. We really ought to emulate those 'good old days'. Sorry to be a cynic, Arabess, but people nowadays have glowy ideals of the past when the truth is that the past was really brutal for most people.

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But to say that the only reason they stayed together, in all cases, was because they lived less, is difficult for me to accept.

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I don't believe I said that, Dyer. However it doesn't take much reading of history (or tombstones) to know that life wasn't all that rosy.

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I didn't mean to put words in your mouth, I was setting up cans and shooting em down, they weren't your cans though.

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To return to the basis of this thread.

 

Yes, I think it is possible. As long as it is physically possible I am pretty sure it has probably happened at some point in human existence. Or atleast WILL happen. So yes, I believe so. It isn't the most common boy-meets-girl story, but you don't seem like the most common kid. You are mentally decades beyond people your age.

 

My only concerns are that, as surprisingly sharp as you are, and how intune with your own values and morals you seem right now, you are still not matured or aged yet. In the body or the heart. And that is what really carves the rest of you, which you will find out over the next 10 years or so.

 

It could happen. But you may grow apart from eachother morally. You may realize once you venture outside the realms of your parent's supervision, that while you both are not COMMON individuals; you are not rare either. Once you are independently paying taxes, and working real jobs, and facing real grown adult experiences, you may find that she is not the one for you. Her being a Republican could drive you to hysterics after a while. It could also keep you glued together, though. Conflict is a pretty durable glue if it is lathered correctly.

 

No matter what happens, I can promise you won't forget her, and she will take you into uncharted territories of your innerself.

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bunnyloveisbest

I am too busy at this time to expend more energy refuting irrelevant issues, but i thought i would just point out one thing:

 

My statement:

'It seems to be more of a verbal exercise to show your depth of intellectual analysis/knowledge of civil libertarianism... however, it is irrelevant both to the question that was being asked and as background information.'

 

Your reply:

'In fact, if saying the words "civil libertarianism" counts as deep intellectual analysis, then you would by your own logic be an expert on crystal balls. '

 

Unfortunately, if you read my statement carefully enough or actually heeded the punctuation, it is quite clear i was not saying that civil libertarianism counts as deep intellectual analysis. In this case, I was saying that your post was more of a verbal exercise to show your depth of intellectual analysis in some parts, and your knowledge of civil libertarianism in others. In this case, I would rather think that dropping the term 'civil libertarianism' is partly 'name-dropping' so to speak - to show that you possess some knowledge of political philosophy. After all, there simply was no need for it, given the question that you were asking.

 

This post is of course, completely irrelevant to the direction that this thread has taken, so I shan't post any more on the subject. Take care all.

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Gee, thanks for the advice. :D

 

I admire you, it must be incredibly rewarding to make it your mission to not only be bitterly condescending, but to do so in an ironic "helpful" manner. It's insulting to pretend that one cannot perceive that. Perhaps what you found irrelevant, others did not. Anyways, it is not your place to make such judgements, no one seeked your services.

 

Recognise that, and try to curb your natural intellectual arrogance. you have the makings of a fine attorney, but no one likes pomposity in the office, no matter how high his GPA is or whether he came from Harvard/Yale.

 

I think if you re-read my original post, if you can stand the "pomposity", you will find no request for an appraisal of my possible talent as an attorney. If you'd ever been outside, you would find that usually such advice is only useful when asked for. Recognise that, and try to curb your bueatiful talents of correcting perceived imperfections in the world, as perhaps it would give you insight into just what people are saying when you turn your back.

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BrainRightHeartWrong

i agree with Arabess and i hope women here on this forum find some hope in hearing this from a man...

 

there does seem to be a current trend of people looking for somebody extraordinary and i feel this is somewhat influenced by the media, womens magazines, mens magazines etc...

 

i'm not saying that we should settle for somebody we won't feel special with, what i mean is i think there is a current trend of over-idealism in general

 

my grandad who died recently... him and my grandmother were married for 66 years!!!!!!!!!!

 

i think that is fantastic, they had 11 children and lived through such hard times...

 

why can't people be like this nowadays?

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Is your grandmother still around? If so, why not ask her what it was that kept them together? I once had the opportunity to ask several people who had been married many years what they thought was the key. The answers were very interesting.

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BrainRightHeartWrong

yes she is moimeme, i unfortunately think she is starting to develop alzheimers disease so that kind of question is not appropriate right now,

 

all i know is that she absolutely loved him, you could tell even a few months ago what they were like together

 

my other grandparents were the same too, together until my grandfather died, they had a good life together

 

i think maybe after a while its the children which keeps the bond between people

 

this is human nature

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