What's with all the games?

[BeReal]

Hello,

 

I've been visiting this message board for a few weeks now. It seems that there is a lot of advice supporting game playing. Things like, "Make yourself a challenge", "be mysterious", "make him pursue you". I don't think one should be doing these things consciously. Why pretend to be something you're not to attract a mate? It reminds me of that book "The Rules". Isn't that duping someone into liking you?

 

Then there are the cliches "men don't want to be pursued", "don't make the first move" etc. While that may be true for some men it isn't true for all. Some women are not comfortable asking men out and I think that is fine. If a woman wants to ask a man out, I think she should go for it. It's my opinion that if a particular man can't handle this woman asking him out then he is not the best match for her. That doesn't mean you shouldn't exercise self control or judgement when meeting someone new. Some people like to jump right in and others like to take it slow.

 

I know some of these statements were made as more of a corrective action, to turn the tables on a mate. I feel sometimes this is a good way to get your point across when a mate won't listen.

 

I don't know about you but I dislike the idea of not being true to myself in order to get a man. I would like to think that there is a man out there that will like me just the way I am and I won't have to play games to gain and keep his attention. Stepping off my soapbox now...

[Tony T]

You certainly make some great points. It's really a shame that that human nature is such that it is. And, yes, there are all kinds of people in the world who respond to all kinds of stimuli...even very honest stimuli.

 

YOU STATE: "It seems that there is a lot of advice supporting game playing. Things like, "Make yourself a challenge", "be mysterious", "make him pursue you". I don't think one should be doing these things consciously."

 

Well, by all means don't. That's your choice. But these tactics work and they aren't games. They're no more of a game than any other mating ritual of any other animal in the animal kingdom. Throughout the world of organisms, there are various conscious rituals that are used instinctively to attract a mate.

 

If I were a peacock, I would have no problem at all telling a male to spread its feathers if it wanted to attract a female. Yes, it would be great if the female went for the male peacock just like it was...but the fact is the females notice the spread feathers and go for that more readilly.

 

It is just human nature, something that our creator stuck into the DNA/RNA of homosapiens, to prefer to work for a mate...to prefer a mate who is not readily available. Now this factor is weaker in some than others. The factoring of this behavioral requirement into the DNA/RNA encoding seems to be stronger in some people than in others so some do not require as much of a challenge. I do feel, from a scientific standpoint, that evolution has caused psychological and environmental factors to override the DNA behavioral encoding in many cases.

 

Bottom line, the advice works and it works damned well. It gets people love, love that often lasts a lifetime. It gets people together. It gets people's needs met. Becoming a challenge and being unpredictable is no more fake than women putting on make-up, shaving their legs, using perfume, getting their hair fixed, dressing sexy, etc. to be attractive to the opposite sex...or just to look good in general.

 

2. "Then there are the cliches "men don't want to be pursued", "don't make the first move" etc."

 

I don't think these are cliches but they are certainly generalizations. Statistically, however, I would have to guess that the majority of men would prefer not to be pursued in the beginning. And the ones who want to are likely to take advantage of the lady and send her home after he has gotten what he wants.

 

I also strongly believe the majority of healthy women would prefer not to be aggressively pursued after an initial meeting. Oh, they may moan and groan about a guy not calling up right away...but if the guy does start calling often initially, that often ends all desire on the part of the female.

 

Some men will always pay prostitutes for a quick sexual encounter but few will date them. There is no challenge there but they are able to get certain needs met without any games. A straight business deal without strings.

 

Now, this challenge requirement does have a lot to do with age, experience, and timing. If a person is a bit older, has been through a lot of chaotic relationships, and is ready to settle down, it's likely he may respond kindly to the overtures of the next lady he meets. So you are correct, it is wrong to make generalizations. But, in general, the fact remains that both men and women seem to be more attracted to that which is not readily available to them.

 

Now this challenge strategy may be more useful to those who are less attractive. A lady who is beautiful, shapely, sexily clad, etc. may not need to use this strategy...except with a man who won't go for her otherwise. I personally have gotten some of the most beautiful women interested in me simply because I ignored them....not because I was playing a game....but because I just figured I had no chance with them. So the game that wasn't a game actually worked anyway.

 

3. "I don't know about you but I dislike the idea of not being true to myself in order to get a man."

 

I admire your integrity and it's a woman like you I'd be attracted to. But not at first. There would have to be a challenge and you could not be an easy catch. I wouldn't like that so much.

 

There are a lot of things people do that aren't being true to themselves. Is it being true to yourself to go to a gym to lose weight instead of being the fat person we are?; it is being true to ourselves to dress in a bright suit for a job interview when we prefer to work in our shorts?; it is true to ourselves to go to church to please others or to have people see us there rather than go for the sake of religion?; is it being true to ourselves to go here or there, places we don't want to go, simply to please somebody else? Is it being true to some of ourselves to act nice around our bosses when we'd prefer to kill them?

 

We do a lot of things in life out of a sense of necessity. If we want something or someone, it's the crafty thing to do to behave or ornament ourselves in such ways that may help us accomplish our goal. Can you imagine a day in the USA when every woman left off her make-up, didn't fix her hair, etc. and men didn't groom themselves? I don't think so.

 

What people won't do to attract the opposite sex! I think behavior modifications, frankly, are more honest than applications of artificial ingredients to our exteriors for that purpose.

 

The debate continues.

 

Love to all and best wishes on finding the perfect person for you no matter what. And hoping they still love you with your make-up off, when your beer belly appears, and when you decide not to shave for a week.

 

And may the love continue to glow after you're around your mate 24/7 and you are no longer a "challenge."

 

(Edited by writer for spelling errors, but I'm sure there are more)

[clia]

I agree with what Tony said, but want to add a couple more things.

 

Have you actually read The Rules? Many people misinterpret what it's saying, at least in my opinion. The book The Rules helps gals who come on overly strong in the beginning to set up boundaries. Many women out there meet a guy and *feel a bond* so they start showering the guy with calls, gifts, and their entire life story. Acting this way in the beginning tends to scare men off. It's not necessarily about being someone you aren't. It's about being realistic and establishing boundaries. It's about protecting your heart and being smart about dating. I certainly don't agree with all of the advice in the book, but I do think many parts of it are spot on.

 

I don't see it as playing games at all. You don't do the Rules on a man. You do them on yourself. It encourages having hobbies, a career, activities, friends, etc., so you aren't sitting around waiting him to call. IYou are busy and you have a life. (Which is attractive to both men and women.) t encourages having a full life without a guy, so that if he never calls or *poofs* on you, you aren't devastated. It helps you to feel secure in the relationship because you sit back and allow him to pursue you. You never have to wonder if he likes you because you know he does since he's calling and asking you out. It cuts out a lot of the stress in dating.

 

In my experience, this has worked very well. Everyone is different, though, and everyone responds to different things. You should do what works for you, as should everyone else. There is a lot of combined dating experience on these boards. People give advice based on what worked and didn't work for them in the past. Anyone who asks for advice is always free to ignore it.

 

<OK, I'll stop plugging The Rules now. They aren't paying me, I swear!>

[Ed]

I understand where you are coming from. I often think the same thing. However, I think most of the people suggesting these “be a challenge” strategies (including me, at times) are not suggesting that a person temporarily adopt a strategy to get a mate, then go back to doing things the old way. That would be playing games and be rather deceptive. In most cases, I think the suggestion and the idea is to modify one’s lifestyle and permanently change the way they view relationships and permanently change the way they treat themselves and others.

 

Life itself is often compared to a game. Everyone knows it is not, but it has all the essential components of a game. You have:

• Players - Yourself and all the other people in the world.
  
• Obstacles - feelings, things, situations and, sometimes, other players
  
• Choices - what, when and how to do any particular thing to achieve a desired outcome
  
• Goals - some measure of success
  

Every single person (player) on Earth has all of these things (obstacles) to manage and deal with (choices) until they die. Everyone is trying to achieve some level of self-satisfaction or happiness (the goal). Of course, the entire process (the game) is extremely complicated and has many, many variables. No one situation is exactly the same as another. No one solution always works in any particular situation.

 

When someone comes to this forum and asks for advice, they are looking for help. They want help with how to deal with people, how to overcome obstacles, determining what choices they have and how to find happiness. You are absolutely right when you said, in some cases, some people are just not “the best match”, but some people will have an easier time finding a match if they try to make some permanent changes in their personality and their behavior.

 

The advice given here generally follows two basic patterns:

1. Keep doing what you are doing, but move on to other things or other people.
   
2. Change your behavior or strategy in order to achieve the outcome you desire.
   

I appreciate your post. You made a very good point. I think you should jump in on some of the posts here and offer your advice or opinion when you have the time. Good luck with your game and I hope you are meeting or exceeding your goals in life.

[velvet]

Its a jungle out there! Theres never a game when your alone. No one to answer to, no one to judge you when you express yourself, no disagreements or comparisons and negative responses. When your on the prowl there is always game. Take everybody with you!

 

I must say that Bill and Mony's response was beautifully written.

[BeReal]

Thank you for your responses. Yes, people are free to give and take any advice they want to. I just want people to be in happy relationships where they are accepted for who they really are.

 

Ed, I think I understand what you are saying about making permanent changes. I guess I'd through that under self improvement though and not "become a challenge". I see a distinction between wanting to be your best and changing who you really are.

 

Clia, I have not read "The Rules" but it was my understanding that it is all about trickery to get a man or a husband. There may be some good advice there. I think it is important to be a whole self and have a life but that should definitely be a permanent change. Women can be scared off as well as men. It's like you say "It's about being realistic and establishing boundaries". I think one can approach this with common sense and not have to absolutely wait a certain time period before calling etc. I think it is game playing when someone asks you out, you are interested, but decline simply because you are trying to be a challenge.

 

Tony, I don't think it is human nature to play games. Nor do I think caring about ones appearance (shaving, perfume, clothes etc.) can be commpared to game playing. I think it would be great if we didn't have to shave and put on makeup in order to fit in. These rituals haven't always existed. It would be nice if we could think ourselves beautiful in our natural states. Trying to look your best is not the same as lying to appear interesting. The peacock has got the feathers, he might as well use them. I don't think that is being disceitful. I think the majority of men would like to be asked out, in fact I have heard men say they like it. This doesn't mean a woman will throw herself naked on his table and ask him for sex. Now if that happened then I would agree with your statement "And the ones who want to are likely to take advantage of the lady and send her home after he has gotten what he wants." Women will use their judgement when determining what a man is after and I think men would do the same. I don't think it is so much as challenge that attracts us to each other as genuine interest. How do you know these beautiful women were interested in you only because you ignored them? Maybe if you would have asked them out they would have accepted. If you asked me out I might accept but that doesn't mean I don't have my boundaries and would let you walk all over me. You would honestly prefer I repeatedly turn you down, cancel dates, seem uninterested? Yes, it is being true to yourself to go to the gym. Most of us are not naturally fat. Being an adult and knowing when you have to put your own desires on the back burner is different than consistantly not being true to yourself. If you want to put your own desires on the backburner in finding a mate that's fine but what will you end up with?

 

Well, this has been rather time consuming. I hope I have made some sense.

[clia]

The Rules are not about trickery. (Major misconception by those who haven't read it.) They are about changing yourself and your lifestyle permanently so you are a happier person, and are thus not so dependent on waiting for a man to ask you out, call, etc. And so you aren't completely devastated if things don't work out.

 

They should always be approached with common sense. I certainly don't follow all of them, nor do I think most people do. You pick and choose based on what works for you. Waiting a certain time period to call or accept dates is mainly aimed at women who have a hard time establishing those boundaries. (i.e. accepting last minute dates where you end up feeling like a "last resort", accepting dates that are "unclear", along the lines of "let's get together this weekend," not calling him every single day every time you want to hear his voice and end up being a pain in his a**, etc.)

 

With The Rules, you don't decline simply because you are trying to be a challenge. You decline if you already have plans, which you should, because you plan things with friend, co-workers, by yourself, etc. because you have a full life. You should not be available every single time someone asks you out. If you are, what kind of life do you have?

 

I disagree when you say it is not human nature to play games. As a society, we place so much emphasis on games. Look at how popular sports are. Look at how popular video games are.

 

Some men may like to be asked out, but I think more actually prefer the chase.

 

Bottom line is that you should always be yourself and not hide things. Being mysterious is not about hiding things. It's about not spilling your guts immediately. It's about not laying all your cards on the table immediately.

[Bill]

I agree with BeReal. Games should not be played. Why show a false image of who you are or what you are thinking? If someone played "hard to get" with me, I'd just think they are not interested. It would definately be seen like that to me.

 

Maybe this is about people afraid to reveal their true feelings to someone else.

[MercyRose]

I have a beautiful and sexy friend who (instinctively) does these rules and is completely successful-but she has no heart...

 

All we can hope for is that the heartless meet up with the heartless, and the hearts meet up with the hearts.