Tell me your experiences with those with NPD

[Mustang Sally]

If you've had a relationship (all the way from acquaintance/friendship to LTR/marriage) with a person who was a bona fide NPD, tell me how it went.

 

Such as:

1. How did you come to know the person had NPD?

 

2. How did it manifest itself (the NPD)? Specifics, if you please.

 

3. Was the person in treatment? If so, did any progress occur?

 

4. What ultimately was the outcome of the relationship? Any successful relationships out there?

 

5. Any other thoughts/experiences that you might want to share about this topic.

 

I know there has been much discussion on this in the past. I wanted to try to gather the experiences together in one location, if possible.

 

(FYI NPD = Narcissitic Personality Disorder).

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

[Trialbyfire]

1. How did you come to know the person had NPD?

 

I learned about NPD on LS, after D-day and insisted my ex-H go for IC. His therapist confirmed it.

 

2. How did it manifest itself (the NPD)? Specifics, if you please.

 

Lying and cheating. Selfish and manipulative behaviours. Center of the universe thinking.

 

3. Was the person in treatment? If so, did any progress occur?

 

No, he wasn't in therapy at the time but last time he contacted me, he had been in therapy for almost a year.

 

Yes, there continues to be progress. There was progress even after a month. Part of the battle is realizing you have a problem.

 

4. What ultimately was the outcome of the relationship? Any successful relationships out there?

 

I divorced him so no, you couldn't say that there was success.

 

5. Any other thoughts/experiences that you might want to share about this topic.

 

I don't have anything positive to say in regards to this subject matter. It's a lifetime uphill battle for anyone who has this disorder and the same for anyone involved with someone who has NPD. My advice to anyone would be to not get involved, if you have the opportunity to do so.

[Mustang Sally]

Thank, TBF.

I knew you had a lot of experience with this.

 

If you don't mind my asking, in retrospect, do you now see the signs of the NPD in your earlier relationship with him? Was it there? Or did he keep it hidden - or compensated better for it in the earlier relationship?

 

I'm wondering if in some more mild/moderate NPDs, they are able to "play along," so to speak, in the beginning, to sort of lure someone in, I guess. Then, when the relationship becomes more comfortable, and the defenses are down, they let more of the NPD manifest itself.

 

What do you think?

[Trialbyfire]

Some of the NPD signs were there, in hindsight after learning about NPD, although much was hidden. Most people are selfish and manipulative to a degree. The level of degree was something hidden until he relaxed.

 

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. He was the type of man who always had women all over him. Once again, in hindsight, he encouraged it but not overtly. He could be a subtle SOB.

[Mustang Sally]

Oh, one thing I forgot to mention. He was the type of man who always had women all over him. Once again, in hindsight, he encouraged it but not overtly. He could be a subtle SOB.

That's very interesting.

 

I've been reading about this disorder a bit this morning.

 

I suspect that most of the men with it are basically ladies' men. Meaning, they have no trouble getting attractive women interested in them. I wonder why that is? Probably the self-confidence they exude? I know that I, personally, do find confident men attractive.

What is so interesting to me is the irony that they actually have very low self-esteem.

 

It seems to me that a severe NPD is actually almost a Borderline, what with the manipulation, and all. I've always been taught that Borderlines are basically recalcitrant to any therapy because of lack of insight. I wonder if that applies to mod/severe NPDs, too.

[Trialbyfire]

That's very interesting.

 

I've been reading about this disorder a bit this morning.

 

I suspect that most of the men with it are basically ladies' men. Meaning, they have no trouble getting attractive women interested in them. I wonder why that is? Probably the self-confidence they exude? I know that I, personally, do find confident men attractive.

What is so interesting to me is the irony that they actually have very low self-esteem.

 

It seems to me that a severe NPD is actually almost a Borderline, what with the manipulation, and all. I've always been taught that Borderlines are basically recalcitrant to any therapy because of lack of insight. I wonder if that applies to mod/severe NPDs, too.

It's the illusion of self-confidence that helps to draw. Add in intelligence, a witty, cutting sense of humour, polish, charm, successful, well-dressed, fit and very good-looking to the mix and you have my ex. He was also an exciting personality who could always entertain.

[nittygritty]

1. How did you come to know the person had NPD?

We were in a LTR and went to couple's counseling.

 

2. How did it manifest itself (the NPD)? Specifics, if you please. He was very accomplished in his field and also an Adult Child of an Alcoholic parent so it was difficult to distinguish the parts of his personality that were from the NPD. I think his lack of empathy and selfishness in certain circumstances is what stood out to me the most. Along with that it seemed like our relationship centered around only his needs being met.

 

3. Was the person in treatment? If so, did any progress occur? He had a different therapist than the couple's counselor that we went to but I don't know if NPD treatment was part of his therapy.

 

4. What ultimately was the outcome of the relationship? Any successful relationships out there? During the years we were together he would never say "I love you" and I never pressed the issue because at times he seemed to act like he did. Our relationship seemed to fluctuate between making plans for the future, like looking at houses together but then he would pull a distancing move. He had a lot of intimacy and commitment issues. Out of the blue, he announced that he was moving out of state and had signed a contract for several years with the company he worked for and after he moved we kept in contact for a longtime and would visit each other occassionally.

It got to a point that I couldn't handle it anymore and quit talking to him, which resulted in him sending me a letter telling me he loved me which led me to LS.

 

5. Any other thoughts/experiences that you might want to share about this topic.

 

TBF was a first responder to my first LS thread and her advice was incredibly accurate. Thanks TBF

[Trialbyfire]

You're very welcome nittygritty.

[Mustang Sally]

Thanks for sharing that, NG.

I'm not familiar with the details of your story.

Had your ex had other LTRs or marriage(s) before you?

[underpants]

The ex that brought me here had some issues.

 

I read many articles about npd as well as other disorders after our break. He hit like 20 of the 25 identified traits (and I was being forgiving at that time). I discovered that they never like to lose their previous supplies. Any attention (good or bad) is needed. That was true in my case. Even when I directly stated my wishes for him to leave me alone. The contact enough was reason for him to continue. No contact escalated into visits. The occassional subtle use of mutual friends to create a contact moment. An infuriating time.

 

example:

 

Me: It is inappropriate for you to visit my home. Especially when I am not there.

 

Him: Well, since it got you to talk to me then it is not inappropriate. I will insist on communicating with you until you give up and keep me in your life.

 

 

It took twice as long as we dated to get him to stop contacting me and visiting me. Even now there is the occassional 'thing'. As TBF said, they can be very subtle and manipulative. Most of that anxiety is gone but it was hell to deal with.

 

There are varying degrees of it. However, if someone is afflicted with a major case and you see it for what it is. They are some of the easiest people to manipulate right back.

 

When I was in the thick of dealing with this. I tested some theories on him and on every single point he took the npd way. If it wasn't so tragic it was kind of funny. Currently he has altars dedicated to his ex's, mirrors and masks all over his house (3 or more to a room), poems and it is all spread out with enough subtley that it could apply to any of them. It is just all so very strange and well, repetitive. His entire home is decorated in post modern narcissism. (this was after we dated, but kind of funny)

 

He does make sure to keep (any) potential past, present or future supply's interest peaked at a very subtle level. He did admit to me that he enjoy dating women with past abuse or severe emotional problems because they were easier to "train". I did notice that most of his ex's (not me) did cheat on someone to be with him so logically they could not get too upset when he choose to 'transition' over to someone else. He also has a past of going for his friend's girlfriends and planting subtle seeds of doubt in other's relationships. He revels in other's pain. I don't understand it and I don't want to.

 

It is an ugly thing and there is nothing under the exterior of what they project. They only feel what is reflected back to them and then it is only momentary.

 

He said alot and often I thought he could not be serious. I think he was and that is pretty sick. He really has to believe that everyone in the room (male or female) wanted to f him or be him, or both. I really thought he was joking but now, I don't. It is a need to believe this that fuels his behavior and denial that most of those people are laughing a little at his expense.

 

I remember reading on this site and others how terrible it was to be involved with someone with this. I wished at the time I could feel that way. Now I know it to be true. Very unfortunate. It is a no win, even for the one who has it.

 

I would tell anyone to run away from such an experience.

[Mustang Sally]

Good Lord, Unders!

 

That sounds pathologic beyond even what I had considered was NPD! Like Borderline, Antisocial, NPD (plus some others?) all rolled up into one twisting snake pit of a package.

 

I'm glad you were able to extricate yourself from that. I certainly believe that had to be a difficult task.

[JackJack]

If you've had a relationship (all the way from acquaintance/friendship to LTR/marriage) with a person who was a bona fide NPD, tell me how it went.

 

Such as:

1. How did you come to know the person had NPD?

 

2. How did it manifest itself (the NPD)? Specifics, if you please.

 

3. Was the person in treatment? If so, did any progress occur?

 

4. What ultimately was the outcome of the relationship? Any successful relationships out there?

 

5. Any other thoughts/experiences that you might want to share about this topic.

 

I know there has been much discussion on this in the past. I wanted to try to gather the experiences together in one location, if possible.

 

(FYI NPD = Narcissitic Personality Disorder).

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.

 

 

1. After hearing about it here and reading about other places. I don't know for sure if it was NPD but it sure sounded like it to me after reading about it.

 

2. It was a buddy of mine. It was always about him. Also he never did anything wrong, he never took blame/responsbility for anything that ever went on in his life. It was always someones else fault. If we were talking about something of interest to me for example, he would find away to change the focus back on himself. He loved to play the victim role alot!

 

3. No, he wasn't in treatment and still isn't to my knowledge. He didn't see he had a problem, it was everyone else who did. If you told him something he didn't want to hear, he thought it was because they were jealous and wanted to be like him.

 

4. It came to an end becasue it was really toxic. None of the other guys from work could make plans and get together to go out, without him ruining it for others by talkijng about his "woe is me problems" that he mostly created himself. People didn't want to be around him.

[underpants]

Good Lord, Unders!

 

That sounds pathologic beyond even what I had considered was NPD! Like Borderline, Antisocial, NPD (plus some others?) all rolled up into one twisting snake pit of a package.

 

I'm glad you were able to extricate yourself from that. I certainly believe that had to be a difficult task.

 

I won't trouble your minds with the rest of my list.

 

 

Yea, he is a sick puppy.

[nittygritty]

Thanks for sharing that, NG.

I'm not familiar with the details of your story.

Had your ex had other LTRs or marriage(s) before you?

 

Yes, he went through a very bad divorce and a very LTR that he was still friends with which was another issue we had. I didn't want to become what his former LTR was to him, which is why I eventually told him all of my feelings and thoughts on our relationship. He responded with a one liner and I asked him not to contact me anymore. I couldn't bring myself to remove him from my buddy list (I know I should but its too hard) and now his screenname has been almost permanently up for a year, not that it matters or that I'm paying attention.

 

Anyway, LS has helped me to keep from contacting him.

[blair08]

I have delt with a coworker like that before. It can be really rough and hard to deal with. It came to an end because I moved out of that department I was in. I doubt that coworker has gotten help.

 

I really used to think it was more along the lines of PAPD (Passive Agressive Personailty Disorder) but you don't hear tell of that to much anymore. I wonder if NPD is what they call it now? They have alot of similarities.

[Mustang Sally]

I won't trouble your minds with the rest of my list.

 

 

Yea, he is a sick puppy.

Ah, hon.

I didn't mean for you not to share!

 

Any pertinent info you have or thoughts are good additions to this thread. I'm really interested in whatever anyone wants to share about this.

[Trialbyfire]

For anyone who doesn't know what NPD is, here's a link to the description:

 

http://www.psychologytoday.com/conditions/narcissistic.html

[Mustang Sally]

I really used to think it was more along the lines of PAPD (Passive Agressive Personailty Disorder) but you don't hear tell of that to much anymore. I wonder if NPD is what they call it now? They have alot of similarities.

Interesting.

I'll have to look into that one.

I know of "Passive-Aggressive," but I didn't know it was classified as a disorder. I'll have to check into the DSM criteria on that.

 

FWIW, I had a friend in HS (female) that I am now pretty much convinced was NPD (plus probably borderline). I had a run in recently that brought all of this to mind. She was difficult on the highest order. Entangled me in a huge web that profoundly affected my ability to trust new friendships for many years after. Yikes!

[blair08]

Interesting.

I'll have to look into that one.

I know of "Passive-Aggressive," but I didn't know it was classified as a disorder. I'll have to check into the DSM criteria on that.

 

FWIW, I had a friend in HS (female) that I am now pretty much convinced was NPD (plus probably borderline). I had a run in recently that brought all of this to mind. She was difficult on the highest order. Entangled me in a huge web that profoundly affected my ability to trust new friendships for many years after. Yikes!

 

Yeah I understand what you mean. There are things like NPD, and PAPD and even BPD, that to me, have alot of similar traits. I think we can all have traits of each thing, epscially being PA once in awhile, but there are some people who live their life like that. I think that might make the PAPD a actual disorder but not sure.

[Trialbyfire]

PAPD is a disorder. If you need to find out more, talk to a4a. Her husband is diagnosed PAPD by their "shrinky-dink".

[blair08]

PAPD is a disorder. If you need to find out more, talk to a4a. Her husband is diagnosed PAPD by their "shrinky-dink".

 

 

Yeah, I dated a guy along time ago who had every single trait of that disorder for PAPD. Of course I didn't know what it was back then, it was years ago, but still, it was really bad to deal with. I felt for along time it was me, when it wasn't.

[Mustang Sally]

Yeah I understand what you mean. There are things like NPD, and PAPD and even BPD, that to me, have alot of similar traits. I think we can all have traits of each thing, epscially being PA once in awhile, but there are some people who live their life like that.

Agreed.

Most things in temperament and personality are a spectrum, I think.

 

That is why I find this stuff interesting. It's fascinating to me that there could even be diagnoses for personality disorders, because hey - we're all a little crazy, if you know what I mean...right?

 

Certainly, though, there are those that are unarguably pathologic (some good examples given in this thread). Hard to discern this, though, when they are masters of manipulating their environment.

 

Be careful in those waters. There's sharks out there...

<sigh>

[underpants]

Ah, hon.

I didn't mean for you not to share!

 

I didn't take it that way. I just wanted to protect you guys from sick things.

 

There was a passive/aggressive streak in the person I knew. A cruel one. Way beyond making someone late, burning dinner or forgetting something. He took the slightest perceived critism to severe levels and held onto it for months/years. It could be anything. He didn't introduce me to someone once and they introduced themselves to me. He later wrote a note himself to "kill them" because of the social correction. I never told him I read the note.

 

There seems to have been a lot of gaslighting, twisting of logic and words and selective memory. Very able to find flaws (or perceived untrue ones) in others but unable to see his own. Let alone accept another's critism or tiny rebuff.

 

The person I knew understood the concepts of empathy, social normalities and the idea of conscious enough to manipulate other people's feelings and behaviors to his advantage. He was and I imagine is still quite good at it to those who interact with him.

 

Whoever said black hole might be right. They are only alive in the reflection they cast in the eyes of others. Be it good or bad they need that reflection. Since they project a false front they know (even if unconsciously) that it is not real so it is not long before the core depression that must be near the base of this disorder begins to sink in and they need a new angle of reflection or another mirror. This is my kindest guess.

 

I no longer have all the sights bookmarked that I used to have on this subject. Thankfully I have moved on. If anything the experience taught me to really see people for who they are, even if it is not so great. Oh, and that you can't reason with crazy. Especially when they see themselves as the epitome of perfection and are quite content in their denial. Best to identify and back away.

 

On a quick search I found this:

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

 

I'm sure I read it from beginning to end at some point. It looks familiar.

 

I like the joke.

 

How many narcissists does it take to change a light bulb?

 

Just one, but he/she has to wait for the whole world to revolve around him/her.

[Mustang Sally]

Geez, Unders.

It sounds like this guy had truly psychotic episodes.

 

Looking back on it now, I feel completely silly that for years, I felt like I was somehow at fault for all of her issues. I guess that is one of the hallmarks of the disorder.

 

In her case, I believe it was probably instilled in her as a result of exposure to her mother's narcissism. What a sick cycle.

[underpants]

Geez, Unders.

It sounds like this guy had truly psychotic episodes.

 

Looking back on it now, I feel completely silly that for years, I felt like I was somehow at fault for all of her issues. I guess that is one of the hallmarks of the disorder.

 

In her case, I believe it was probably instilled in her as a result of exposure to her mother's narcissism. What a sick cycle.

 

It was a nasty little relationship. Honestly, I felt bad most of the time. However, like I said when I would try to confront something (even minor) he would just over react or hold it against me and spin it around to be my issue. I begin to get quiet to avoid a scene or back lash. He would take advantage of this as well. At this point I was just observing him and no longer investing emotionally. That is not good.

 

Just when I thought he might be human, he would say something just so sick and wrong. Eventually when he did cheat I sent the girl a thank you note, and I meant it.

 

When it was all over I saw even more layers of his deceptions from the vantage point of being the ex. Geez, it was just nuts.

 

...and yes, they will attempt to make you feel so guilty for not being there for them or helping them when they need it. He did once say to me something like:

 

I understand why you don't want me in your life so I have to make sure to stay in your life.

 

and one of my fav's ....You should be my friend no matter what I say or do to you. If you really cared about me you would be there for me no matter what.

 

F'er please....

 

I'm so glad I don't have to deal with him anymore. It was a crazy experience. However, not one I would recommend.

 

His immediate family does have some diagnosed mental illness. Two are institutionalized. No one in that family is what you would consider right. The house he grew up in I visited and it is very bad energy. He does consider himself the normal one. I disagree. He has never had any test except an IQ test that he took over and over until he got a super high score. I'm sure he is intelligent, but found it amusing how much value he places on it.

 

Like you I remember thinking we are all a little crazy or all have a few issues. However, when you run across someone really disturbed it takes it to a whole other level.

 

You should feel silly for taking any blame. Honestly, there are souls who suffer and rise above their misfortunes to become really great people.

 

I just have no sympathy for someone so self absorbed and selfish...it is exactly what they want. Their consequences are the result of their choices.

 

FWIW if he ever ran across this thread he would read with glee and leave satisfied that I took 10 minutes out of my day to think back.

 

That is how f'd up the thinking is.