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Fathers and abortion


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I wanted to get some opinions from the LS community on Fathers rights concerning abortion.

 

Currently, pro-choice means that it is the mothers perogative entirely on whether or not to keep a pregnancy. It is the mothers body, so that makes some sense.

 

What about if a father desperately want's the child? It is the mothers body, but doesn't the father have equal interest in the baby itself? Do you think the father has a right to know of the pregnancy and also have a right to decide whether the baby should be aborted? In such a situation, both parents would have to agee to the abortion for it to happen. An exception would be life threatening complications. What is your opinion?

 

Personally, I think if a father is expected to be held responsible to take care of a child a mother decides to have, that he should also have a right to decide on whether or not his pregnancy is aborted. I think pregnancy is a shared responsibility of the parents. The mother does share the greater part of the burden though. Especially if the father does not live with her.

 

Sure, I'm idealistic. :o

 

I want to say in advance that that I am just curious and have never had to face this unenviable situation.

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HokeyReligions

Well, this could turn into a heated discussion - I hope that it doesn't.

 

My opinion is that if it takes two to make a baby it takes two to decide it's fate. The law says a woman can make the choice for herself and I understand that - but the baby is part of each of them, the woman has the responsibility to bear the child. She might not have chosen that responsibility, but life is full of things we didn't choose and for which we must be responsible.

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bluechocolate

It is somewhat of a conundrum. I know what you're saying & I sort of agree with you, but at the end of the day it is the woman's body. What is the alternative? Forcing a woman to give birth to a child that she has already decided she wants to abort? How the hell would anybody police such a thing? Just not possible.

 

Not too long ago there was a case here about a married couple who had embryos frozen. Then they got divorced. Then she discovers that she has ovarian cancer & is now infertile. Except there are frozen embryos and she has womb, so she can carry to term, but only with her ex-husband's permission. They are, after all, embryos fertislised with his sperm. There is no legal recourse for him to divorce himself from his parental responsibility if he gives her the OK to have those embryos. Even is she says she will never ask him for child support, after she has the baby she can still sue for it & will get it. He refuses his permission and she fights her way through successive courts to have access to those embryos. It was quite a controversial case here with many divided opinions.

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You can't force a woman to carry a child through pregnancy and give birth any more than you can force a woman to abort a child. You can't just take control of a woman's body for breeding purposes just because you want to be a father.

 

If a man or woman wants to be a parent, s/he should make that clear before having sex with someone, and should find someone to have sex with who wants to be a parent. If a man or woman is opposed to abortion, that is also something s/he should make clear to all partners before having sex. If you don't have those conversations and agree, then you can't be all upset later.

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Can existing fetuses be surrogated? If the mother won't carry the baby to term, might another woman?

 

Existing fetuses cannot be surrogated. Once the fertalized egg implants into the uterine lining it can not be removed without killing it. This is the reason that couples that are having trouble having kids can have her eggs fertalized by his sperm in a petri dish then frozen for later use (same situation that someone commented on earlier).

 

I completely understand the fact that it is a womans body so she should be able to chose what happens to it, however I have often wondered about a fathers right... so what happens if an unwed couple gets pregnant, the mother wants to keep it but the father wants her to have an abortion so that he doesn't get caught with the child support issue, and other problems later on. Does he have any way to protect himself from someday having to pay to help care for the child?

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You know the more you start thinking about it there are lots of questions with no answers. I would think its a case where a fathers rights can't trump the woman health, I mean in the end its the woman's body and her health at issue.

 

 

Originally Posted by Outcast

Can existing fetuses be surrogated? If the mother won't carry the baby to term, might another woman?

 

They have even tried to move a etopic pregnancy and found it can't be done sucessfully, where ever the egg stops and makes its home thats it.

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Ideally, pregnancy and the matter of what to do about it (ie proceed, or terminate) will be a joint decision. I think like so many things, this is an approach that is best encouraged through education and intelligent debate. Trying to legally enforce the father's right to insist that a pregnancy go to full term would be unworkable in a democratic society.

 

It would have to be continually enforced by the courts, resulting in increased tensions between men and women (as if there aren't enough of those already). Amongst other things, I can envisage the situation where a woman might claim that the pregnancy resulted from marital rape, and should therefore be treated as an exception.

 

There's got to be a better way of promoting fairness in society than continually turning to the legal system and lobbying for enforceable powers over those who don't share one's perspective.

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I completely understand the fact that it is a womans body so she should be able to chose what happens to it, however I have often wondered about a fathers right... so what happens if an unwed couple gets pregnant, the mother wants to keep it but the father wants her to have an abortion so that he doesn't get caught with the child support issue, and other problems later on. Does he have any way to protect himself from someday having to pay to help care for the child?

 

For a man who doesn't want to be responsible for a child, prevention is his only option. He can avoid having sex with a woman who's opposed to abortion, he can get a vasectomy, he can be meticulous about using condoms with spermicide, or he can abstain from coming inside her. Otherwise, no, there's nothing he can do if she chooses to have the baby and he is the father.

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I don't think you could ever force a woman to carry an unwanted child.

 

Back in the days when abortion was illegal, women did dangerous, life-threatening things to rid themselves of unwanted pregnancies. Stipulating that a woman can have an abortion ONLY if the father signs an agreement may lead to back-alley abortions once again.

 

Furthermore, what if the pregnancy was the result of rape? Does the rapist need to be tracked down and required to approve of the abortion before it happens?

 

That's an extreme example, but you see what I'm saying.

 

On the flip side, with regards to letting men have a say as to whether a woman has an abortion or not, I have very mixed feelings too. What if the woman wants the child and he does not?

Whose opinion wins out?

Whose opinion carries more weight?

 

There is really no 'ideal' scenario here. When people disagree about the outcome of an unwanted pregnancy, it can get very unpleasant.

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thus is my easy solution:

 

 

pre sexual contact contract....... no more trapped men and a hell of a lot less 'Not knowing what could happen'........

 

It would end the whole debate right there.

 

If a pro lifer decided to have sex with a pro choicer.... well it would be predetermined what is what.... no changing the mind no liablity if it happened.

 

I am guessing less people would have accidental pregnancies as well.

 

no condom and contract no sex. :p

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Does he have any way to protect himself from someday having to pay to help care for the child?

 

yea a condom. Both parties made the child but unltimately it's the woman choice not only because it's her body but she bears most of the resposibility.

 

There are many guys who run off on a pregnant woman and she's left holding the bag.

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there should be a cheap and easy method to just store sperm for AI then all men will be neutered at puberty after enough sperm is collected if they decide to have future offspring.

 

no more accidental pregnancies for anyone!!!!! :D

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Well, the implications of your question are far-reaching. Indeed, there is no male-right to have a child and a man cannot legally stop a woman from an abortion. Perhaps this suggests why there were abortion laws originally.

 

But the point to learn from your message would be for men and women to enter into intimate relationships carefully and know the possibilities and their outcomes first.

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HokeyReligions

There are no cut-and-dried answers because each situation is unique. People who do discuss becoming parents and decide against it and take all precautions can still end up pregnant. That is what happened to us. No form of birth control is 100% sure 100% of the time, except abstinence.

 

Yes, ideally it should be a joint decision - but that is not always going to happen if each parent is firm in their own choice and there is very little room for compromise.

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RecordProducer
Do you think the father has a right to know of the pregnancy and also have a right to decide whether the baby should be aborted?
When you men start becoming pregnant, you can decide what to do with YOUR babies!

 

It's opposing the nature. If the law made me have a permission from the father, the father would be stated as "UNKNOWN." I don't know whom I screwed a couple months ago, there were many of them, and I was drunk, OK? Now go ask the father for an opinion.

 

P.S. :mad: :mad: :mad:

 

In such a situation, both parents would have to agee to the abortion for it to happen.
Which means if the father disagrees, she will have to have the baby. Excuse me, but as long as it's in my body, it's a part of MY body and the legal system cannot force me to have it or abort it.

 

Personally, I think if a father is expected to be held responsible to take care of a child a mother decides to have, that he should also have a right to decide on whether or not his pregnancy is aborted. I think pregnancy is a shared responsibility of the parents.
Pregnancy and a baby ARE (or should be) shared responsibility. But not an abortion.
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Before I get started, let me remind everyone that this is hypothetical, so please don't take any part of this discussion personally.

 

The stance I take on this is because I imagine how I would feel if my baby was being destroyed, while I have to stand by and watch helplessly. By taking this stance, I am not trying to pass judgement on anyone.

 

When you men start becoming pregnant, you can decide what to do with YOUR babies! .

 

That's kind of the point. They ARE our babies too. The curent scientific proof, child support and parenting laws say so. The flip side of the coin you just mentioned would be, once men start having babies, then men can take responsibility for them. You can't really say one and not the other without being admittedly unfair about it.

 

It's opposing the nature. If the law made me have a permission from the father, the father would be stated as "UNKNOWN." I don't know whom I screwed a couple months ago, there were many of them, and I was drunk, OK? Now go ask the father for an opinion.

 

P.S. :mad: :mad: :mad: .

 

(Once again, this is a completely hypothetical situation, so please don't take it personally.)

 

Of course you could. Many people do similar things in other circumstances to avoid inconvenient law. As with any other law, being caught and prosecuted would result in criminal and/or civil penalties.

 

Which means if the father disagrees, she will have to have the baby. Excuse me, but as long as it's in my body, it's a part of MY body and the legal system cannot force me to have it or abort it.

 

Pregnancy and a baby ARE (or should be) shared responsibility. But not an abortion.

 

Pegnancy and abortion are inexoribly combined. You can't say one is shared and not the other without being admittedly unfair.

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Pegnancy and abortion are inexoribly combined. You can't say one is shared and not the other without being admittedly unfair.

 

The physical part of the pregnancy is NOT shared unless women carry arms and men carry legs.

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IMO, it's the mothers decision to make entirely. I do empathize with a father who has a hard time with this, but it's the mother who no matter what has to carry and raise a child that she possibly doesn't want.

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IMO, it's the mothers decision to make entirely. I do empathize with a father who has a hard time with this, but it's the mother who no matter what has to carry and raise a child that she possibly doesn't want.

 

Many men have to raise and care for children they did not want too.

I think in all fairness they should have a say as well.

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thus is my easy solution:

 

 

pre sexual contact contract....... no more trapped men and a hell of a lot less 'Not knowing what could happen'........

 

It would end the whole debate right there.

 

Or how about inserting some kind of contraceptive "chip" into everyone at puberty. It can only be removed surgically, and with the consent of two doctors...one of whom must be a mental health professional.

 

When a couple decide they want to have a baby, they are interviewed by a panel of experts to decide whether they have the emotional maturity and intelligence to be good parents. Okay - good enough parents. Doesn't do to be too strict about these things.

 

A woman can have a baby on her own through sperm donation, but she must also be interviewed for suitability as a parent. Once the "fit and consenting parent(s)" clearance certificate is obtained, removal of the contraceptive chips can commence.

 

A tough measure, perhaps, and clearly a breach of human rights...but the potential benefits to society would be so fabulous that there would be a strong public interest argument.

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Or how about inserting some kind of contraceptive "chip" into everyone at puberty. It can only be removed surgically, and with the consent of two doctors...one of whom must be a mental health professional.

 

When a couple decide they want to have a baby, they are interviewed by a panel of experts to decide whether they have the emotional maturity and intelligence to be good parents. Okay - good enough parents. Doesn't do to be too strict about these things.

 

A woman can have a baby on her own through sperm donation, but she must also be interviewed for suitability as a parent. Once the "fit and consenting parent(s)" clearance certificate is obtained, removal of the contraceptive chips can commence.

 

A tough measure, perhaps, and clearly a breach of human rights...but the potential benefits to society would be so fabulous that there would be a strong public interest argument.

 

 

This is brilliant!!!! I love it!!! Bravo Bravo Bravo!!!

 

:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D

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Whoa! We're going Communist here! I do think there should be a more definititve way to stop pregnancy from happening, and something better for men to have/take too. I can understand that it would suck being a guy and hope that your sex partner doesn't mess up with her pills or something!

But as for once there is a pregnancy: I think that if the mother wants the child and the father does not, the father should be allowed to sign over all legal rights. BUT if the father DOES want the baby and the mother DOES NOT, than I really don't see any real way to make both parties happy here. I do not feel that the woman should have to carry the child under any conditions, but I do feel for the fathers who don't have that choice to make. But then again, Men and Women were not created equally so it's only nature that we can not come up with equal answers all the time.

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Whoa! We're going Communist here! I do think there should be a more definititve way to stop pregnancy from happening, and something better for men to have/take too. I can understand that it would suck being a guy and hope that your sex partner doesn't mess up with her pills or something!

But as for once there is a pregnancy: I think that if the mother wants the child and the father does not, the father should be allowed to sign over all legal rights. BUT if the father DOES want the baby and the mother DOES NOT, than I really don't see any real way to make both parties happy here. I do not feel that the woman should have to carry the child under any conditions, but I do feel for the fathers who don't have that choice to make. But then again, Men and Women were not created equally so it's only nature that we can not come up with equal answers all the time.

 

I agree with the bold statement. :)

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