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Will this be the road to estrangement... [UPDATED 2017]


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Old 11th December 2016, 3:13 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by jnel921 View Post
I did set rules in my house and she has crossed every boundary imaginable.

She should be accountable and most importantly have some insight and feel remorseful about her actions instead of getting angry at the consequences. When this is not the case I should blame myself? I don't think so.
I didn't say to blame yourself. I said to do things differently. A rule is pointless if you don't hand out the consequence. And she obviously learned that early on. There ARE no rules because you never ENFORCED any.

You are finally doing the right thing, which is kicking her out and letting her figure out for herself that she has to follow rules. She'll likely bounce from friend to friend, burning all bridges, because she hasn't learned that she'll suffer by using people. And her friends aren't going to be nearly as lenient as you, so she'll probably be out of people to use fairly soon. Just be super strong at that point, because she's going to pull out all the stops to guilt you. At that point, give her the address of some homeless shelters.

And if you're letting her keep that car, by all means, get the title transferred before YOU become responsible for whatever she does with it.
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Old 11th December 2016, 10:35 PM   #47
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I didn't say to blame yourself. I said to do things differently. A rule is pointless if you don't hand out the consequence. And she obviously learned that early on. There ARE no rules because you never ENFORCED any.

You are finally doing the right thing, which is kicking her out and letting her figure out for herself that she has to follow rules. She'll likely bounce from friend to friend, burning all bridges, because she hasn't learned that she'll suffer by using people. And her friends aren't going to be nearly as lenient as you, so she'll probably be out of people to use fairly soon. Just be super strong at that point, because she's going to pull out all the stops to guilt you. At that point, give her the address of some homeless shelters.

And if you're letting her keep that car, by all means, get the title transferred before YOU become responsible for whatever she does with it.
She is staying with a friend and her family who I am sure will not appreciate the 20 bins and 5 boxes of personal items I will be sending her. She does not have the car. I am still paying for it. The withdraw letter has been sent to the director of the school and hopefully I can recover some of my money,

I told her I wasn't going to speak to her nor did I want to see her. This has been very upsetting. I haven't cried this much for a long time. You want your kids to leave home on good terms and this one totally hurt me.

Yes it will be hard but I plan to stay strong until she realizes what she has done and hopefully shows sincere remorse. Perhaps one day our relationship will improve. For now I need distance.
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Old 11th December 2016, 11:07 PM   #48
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There are two kinds of people - the ones who see the smart way to do something and do it and the ones who have to figure it out for themselves. Your son is the former, your daughter is the latter. It's not something you have control over. But holding firm on YOUR morals and boundaries is. She is free to run from you, you're free to hold firm. Eventually, the world of hard knocks will probably (not guaranteed) figure out that you weren't so bad after all, and will return to be your friend. It may not happen right away. I know a lady who took a good 30 years to figure it out. In and out of prison, lost her kids, all kinds of trouble. She's now about 50, living with her mom, finally gave up the fight to 'be her own person' and do things her way.

Your daughter probably won't take that long, but it's still her journey. She'll figure it out when she figures it out.
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Old 12th December 2016, 6:59 AM   #49
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The only peace.of mind I have is that I tried and exhausted every resource to try and advise and help her. I cannot control her actions. Cleaning out her room this weekend was heartbreaking. I must have thrown out 25 lighters that were hidden all over her room. I found a diary from last year where she writes how we are all angry with her but she never writes what she did or that she was wrong.

I am going to stick to my decision of not talking ort texting her. She really let us down. She wanted everything without earning it or proving to us that she could really change.

I will focus on my son and hopefully his dreams of going to the military will be realized this week as he will be taking the test.
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:45 AM   #50
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Unfortunately where we live we need cars to get around since we are in a higher elevation. I didn't grow up with money. I understand the value of a dollar. My son has 3 jobs and I raised them both the same. I gave them things but it was never anything extravagant. Yes, I gave her them a better life and bought a home, they have their own rooms but that's about it. I said she acted like a spoiled brat. Not that she was.

My daughter has had many jobs but cant keep them do to her defiant behavior.

Everyone here says let her grow and let her be. But if I have rules and she is in my home that is what I expect her to respect. When she disappeared and took the car she returned it with cigarette and pot ashes. weed paper and lighters strewn about the car. The inside smelled like an ashtray. This is 10 days after receiving it. I paid for this car to take her to school. Not to party with her friends and not to disrespect me and crap the car I allowed her to use.

I wish there were other options. I took the train everywhere and didn't have a car until I left home. She has no choice because now she cannot drive the car and I am pulling her out of school on Monday. The party is over.
Okay, well in that case, your daughter reminds me a lot of my youngest little brother. My oldest little brother and myself were obedient children for the most part. My stepfather (my little brothers' biological father) was horribly strict and punitive so me and the older of my two brothers knew to toe the line but it was amazing to watch my youngest brother totally defy my parents time and time again. He was constantly being punished. First it was spankings every single day then as he got older it was being grounded, losing privileges and items. Nothing seemed to phase him or get through to him. By the time he was a teen my mom and stepfather were divorced and I think some of the stress caused by my brother contributed to their marital discord.

By the time my brother was sixteen he had been kicked out by my mom, then taken in and kicked out by his father. Then he went through everyone else available. I was sixteen years older than him and I tried to take him in for awhile myself. I ended up kicking him out too and I felt horrible guilt over it but I had my own kids and he just brought way too much drama. Not only would he not go to school or keep a job, he had a nasty temper. Huge dramatic fights would erupt whenever he was around and everyone would just let out a sigh of relief when he would leave. It was so frustrating because no matter how much someone tried to help him it was never enough in his eyes, and it never helped. This continued on throughout his twenties. My own sons were grown up and independent while my little brother was still bouncing around, chronically unemployed and homeless. He's in his mid thirties now and last I heard he was finally doing better. He doesn't talk to any of us because as each of us stopped trying to rescue him, he washed his hands of us. Once he couldn't get anymore out of us we became useless to him.

I still feel guilt over him but I've also come to believe that he is disordered in some way. I don't think he's ever loved anyone. Even my mother who loved him the most and tried the hardest became useless to him when she went into assisted living and he could no longer use her for anything. She hasn't heard from him or seen him in years.

Sorry for the grim story. I don't mean to imply that your daughter is as hopeless and as lost as my brother, I just meant to convey that I can understand how a kid can just be impossible no matter how hard you have tried to do the right thing. Hopefully your daughter will find her way out of this soon.
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Old 12th December 2016, 9:23 PM   #51
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Okay, well in that case, your daughter reminds me a lot of my youngest little brother. My oldest little brother and myself were obedient children for the most part. My stepfather (my little brothers' biological father) was horribly strict and punitive so me and the older of my two brothers knew to toe the line but it was amazing to watch my youngest brother totally defy my parents time and time again. He was constantly being punished. First it was spankings every single day then as he got older it was being grounded, losing privileges and items. Nothing seemed to phase him or get through to him. By the time he was a teen my mom and stepfather were divorced and I think some of the stress caused by my brother contributed to their marital discord.

By the time my brother was sixteen he had been kicked out by my mom, then taken in and kicked out by his father. Then he went through everyone else available. I was sixteen years older than him and I tried to take him in for awhile myself. I ended up kicking him out too and I felt horrible guilt over it but I had my own kids and he just brought way too much drama. Not only would he not go to school or keep a job, he had a nasty temper. Huge dramatic fights would erupt whenever he was around and everyone would just let out a sigh of relief when he would leave. It was so frustrating because no matter how much someone tried to help him it was never enough in his eyes, and it never helped. This continued on throughout his twenties. My own sons were grown up and independent while my little brother was still bouncing around, chronically unemployed and homeless. He's in his mid thirties now and last I heard he was finally doing better. He doesn't talk to any of us because as each of us stopped trying to rescue him, he washed his hands of us. Once he couldn't get anymore out of us we became useless to him.

I still feel guilt over him but I've also come to believe that he is disordered in some way. I don't think he's ever loved anyone. Even my mother who loved him the most and tried the hardest became useless to him when she went into assisted living and he could no longer use her for anything. She hasn't heard from him or seen him in years.

Sorry for the grim story. I don't mean to imply that your daughter is as hopeless and as lost as my brother, I just meant to convey that I can understand how a kid can just be impossible no matter how hard you have tried to do the right thing. Hopefully your daughter will find her way out of this soon.
Thanks Anika,

Unfortunately I believe I may have the same kind of child on my hands. I too feel taken advantage of and not shown sincere love. A mother loves her kids no matter what but I have boundaries and she has crossed them.

I called the director today and she told me my daughter had to call in and send a note personally to officially withdraw from school. It took about 3 hours and a threat of not giving her belongings before she did this. Not a nice time today. Also there is a kit that she needs to return so she will have to go with me Thursday when we go over the reimbursement.

I packed her room already but have not delivered anything yet. We will send this tomorrow. After this she will not have anything here.

Oppositional defiance disorder has been a real stressor for me. Her continued pot use and nastiness makes it worse. She believes she does nothing wrong. She is mad at the world.

I am just really sad. I know one day my daughter would leave my home, but never I thought like this.
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Old 12th December 2016, 10:38 PM   #52
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You're doing the right thing. It seems odd, but this is the only thing that will eventually help her. Just may not be for awhile.
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Old 14th December 2016, 8:59 PM   #53
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Yesterday she picked up most of her things but not all. Tomorrow we meet to go the school to hand in supplies and talk about the tuition reimbursement.
All disappointing. Today my son passed the military exam and gets sworn in tomorrow. He is leaving February 20th. This means my husband and I would officially be alone. I am going to let my daughter know about her brother and how proud I am of him and his perseverance. I will leave it at that.

I feel sad about my son but happy about his transition. My daughter, I just feel sad, hurt and very upset.

She called me today and I really didn't talk long. She was crying because the person she gave her guinea pig to I believe cant care for it and she said she wanted to take it to a zoo. This is how immature I realized she was.
I told her if she couldn't take it back to a pet shop then find out from them who rescues them. I told her I had a meeting and hung up.

Afterwards I was more pissed that she cried over a guinea pig and not the loss of her family. smh.
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Old 14th December 2016, 10:00 PM   #54
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I'm curious how you've handled the treatment of her oppositional defiance disorder. From what I understand, this warrants regular therapy *did your daughter have that throughout her adolescence? Does she have that now? And have any medications been tried?

I'm certainly no expert on ODD, but I have a good friend whose kid has it. It's definitely messy. However, the kid is in therapy twice a week, gets special counseling at his school, and has seen some improvement.

It sounds like your daughter is going untreated (at least recently), is self-medicating herself the wrong ways, and displaying destructive behavior.

The mental health issue really needs to come first here. The only help you should offer her should be toward her treatment. You could explore a live-in residential program to focus on her ODD from a quick Google search I see there's many options. Maybe some focus on the drug addiction angle as well.

Yes, sounds $$$, and I'm sure your daughter would fight it, but if there's a way to make that happen it could be the right path.
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Old 17th December 2016, 11:15 AM   #55
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I'm curious how you've handled the treatment of her oppositional defiance disorder. From what I understand, this warrants regular therapy *did your daughter have that throughout her adolescence? Does she have that now? And have any medications been tried?

I'm certainly no expert on ODD, but I have a good friend whose kid has it. It's definitely messy. However, the kid is in therapy twice a week, gets special counseling at his school, and has seen some improvement.

It sounds like your daughter is going untreated (at least recently), is self-medicating herself the wrong ways, and displaying destructive behavior.

The mental health issue really needs to come first here. The only help you should offer her should be toward her treatment. You could explore a live-in residential program to focus on her ODD from a quick Google search I see there's many options. Maybe some focus on the drug addiction angle as well.

Yes, sounds $$$, and I'm sure your daughter would fight it, but if there's a way to make that happen it could be the right path.
Thanks SF,

I saw my daughter on Thursday. We went to the school to withdraw her and recoup the tuition. This was after her cancelling that morning, them telling me in the afternoon that she wasn't able to go and then I let her have it.

It turned out that she is doing the same things where she is staying and her friends mom is not very happy with her leaving and not coming back. I don't think she has started working so there has not been any real contribution there except for helping with chores. Her friends brother has been texting her old phone which i have saying that the mom will kick her out if she keeps this up. I never let him know that it wasn't her phone. It was a good way for me to stay in the know.

Anyway ultimately she went back and they asked her to go food shopping with them. This is when I told her I was picking her up to go to the school. I told her that we made these plans on Monday and she needed to keep them as this is about the money I need to get back. So i picked her up and she looked terrible. She just wasn't herself, She looked as if she was hung over from the night prior.

I was trying to talk to her in the car. but she kept looking at her phone. I thought maybe saying something may spark an emotion. But it didn't. We got to the school took care of everything and the director mentioned how disappointed she was as my daughter was her best student.

when we left I told her how it hurt me that we were doing this and she just said that she had plans. later on she demanded that I buy her a meal for having her go to the school and i said no. She was also nasty in the car telling me not to call her BF asking about her because she told him not to speak to me. She said all you do is vent. She called me dumb for driving down a certain street, it was just very upsetting to me and I screamed at her in the car asking her wtf was her issue and who did she think she was talking to. You see during these times she must be high, because who acts and talks like that.

She should feel bad that she wasted my time, energy and money. Demanding meals? Get out of here.

However I did mention that she needed to see a mental health therapist again. I believe someone needs to assess what her issues are now. In the past the 2 people who were seeing her couldn't handle her behavior themselves, which is why they stopped treating her. Its a shame that some therapists are this way. Honestly it makes me feel hopeless when it comes to her.

For whatever reason she doesn't believe she needs to change. We all need to change to accommodate her. Just doesn't work that way and I have had enough.

Its been hard and I have been sad, but what else can I do.
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Old 18th December 2016, 7:33 PM   #56
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Mission #1: Take the emotion out of it. Telling her she hurt you? Gave her power.

Stop it.
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Old 21st December 2016, 7:23 AM   #57
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Mission #1: Take the emotion out of it. Telling her she hurt you? Gave her power.

Stop it.
I beleive that may be the case. It's been almost 2 weeks tomorrow and she has not felt the need to explain herself, apologize or acknowledge anything.

What I have done is let her know I love her, asked her to spend Christmas morning at our home since my son is leaving soon. I did mention her having to get all of her things out of my home by the end of February.

She has tried asking for favors, wanting to go through her things at home. But I have said no. I am trying to establish healthy boundaries and if the conversation or texts aren't pleasant I hang up or ignore it.

From what I know she is messing up where she is staying and the mother is not happy with her coming and going as she pleases. I beleive they have warned her.

I would like to think she misses us, her room, privacy, the car and school. But looks like the party life is what is important right now.

It will be interesting to see how Sunday goes. Hopefully without any drama.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 12:18 PM   #58
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Unhappy Its been 2 weeks since my daughter left home...

She has contacted me only 2 times to ask for things that I didn't provide and face timed me yesterday to give me a proposition.

She asked if she could have the car I originally bought with the intention of her using it for school and work if she pays the car note and insurance.

I immediately said no. I have heard that she may be selling drugs as she may be posting this on her snap chat. She got upset and said she was purchasing a car today. $3,200. Which of course immediately upset me.

How did it take me years to save my deposit and you less than 2 weeks? She had a stupid look on her face. Never said where the money came from only that she busted her butt to make it. I told her there is more to a car purchase than just the purchase and the way she makes her money may land her in prison and not to call me when she is there.

She was cursing about getting her belongings and I hung up. It just reminds me of what another poster said on my last thread about her brother. I feel we are useless to her unless we can provide.

This has been such a hurtful experience. I wouldn't want to wish this on anyone.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 1:03 PM   #59
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Maybe she's working as a waitress and making good tips or working two or three jobs.

It's very possible to make money if you work hard for it and everybody is hiring right now.
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Old 22nd December 2016, 1:37 PM   #60
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If you don't need the car, perhaps you could have let her use it.

My son is giving my grandson one of his cars next year when he turns 16 and gets his license.

I have thought grandson is too young and should be a wage-earner, as my parents wouldn't let me have a car before I started working a job.

My sons father however - provided them with a car when they were in high school.

I'm sorry this has been a hurtful experience for you. Some kids just can't wait to get out of the house. I was one of them.

Last edited by UpwardForward; 22nd December 2016 at 1:43 PM..
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