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Taking my estranged son on vacation


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I would like to ask for some perspectives on whether I should take my 14 year old son on vacation. I have been divorced for 4 years. My son whom I have joint custody of suddenly stopped coming over when he turned 14. I have seen him 3 times in the last year. During the summer when we went to an amusement park, from Christmas eve to Christmas day and once when his mom went out of town. His younger sister still comes over to the house. He found out we were going to Yellowstone from his sister. His mother texted me asking me to invite him. I called and asked if her were interested in going and he said yes. I told him he need to come over this past weekend to plan. He did not come over.

At this point I am felling a little used and I am not taking him. A co-worker told me not to do this. Opinions/Advice are welcome.

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Methodical

Why did he suddenly stop visiting?

 

Are you more interested in keeping a "scorned" score card or possibly repairing and building a relationship with your fourteen year old son?

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Methodical

 

I appreciate your response. I do not feel scored by my son. I do not believe it is a healthy relationship to see a family member or loved one simply for materialistic wants (presents/trips). I have not done anything to push him out. He was my little hunting and fishing buddy for a very long time. I am content to allow him to re-enter my life if he chooses.

 

My ex does not want my children to see me. She believes at 14 they don't need to come over and may choose. Her home is significantly easier to deal with. There are no expectation as far as school work or responsibilities around the home. My older daughters never came over. My son feels it is 'unfair' that he should have to come over. I worked very hard, spent a lot to time and money to 'work' towards a different relationship with my daughters. It did not change the outcome. Methodical I believe simply taking him on a vacation will not change the current dynamic.

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Methodical

Is there no custody order in place? Child support?

 

The law concerning minors takes precedent over your ex's opinion.

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Methodical...There is a custody order in place. I have almost 50/50 joint custody of my children. I was in court last fall to try and enforce the order. It cost me probably 10K and nothing changed. I have followed all the appropriate steps, spent a great deal of money, even had her charged criminally with custodial interference. The city prosecutor did not want to pursue it because he felt he could not win, love our judicial system here!

 

At this point I really just want opinions of leaving my son home because I feel a little used. I can enjoy the time with two of my other children and allow my son to figure out our relationship on his own terms. If he never comes around again, while it is unfortunate, it is his decision.

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bathtub-row

Personally, I wouldn't take him. I agree that it would be teaching him to use you for whatever he wants. I think it's better to teach him that it's not ok to treat others that way. If he wants to mend things with you, then he needs to take steps to do that.

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hi, OP

 

I have no children, I have never been married or pregnant. I'm 35 single woman, living in Europe, so that you have the whole psychological background.

 

As a woman, my experience has been that one can catch a whole lot more flies with honey than with vinegar. I believe that the whole point is to build a relationship with your son. Building a relationship with someone - even someone of your own flesh & blood requires 2 very important ingredients:

- time

- and willingness

 

While I admit to not knowing a thing about 14 years old, I do remember a couple of things from being that age - and those things include wanting to spend as much time as I could outside the house - not with my mom and dad. So your task is extradifficult because it's highly likely that even though your son may be living with your exwife, she may not see him or actively spend time with him at all. It is possible that if you spend one week with him during a holiday, you may bond more, find out more and talk more to him than your exwife does in a whole year.

 

(I live abroad and I can tell you that my RS with my parents improved significantly since I moved outside the country, we actively spend time together and when we see eachother, we do things, to talk, even if that's only a couple of weeks per year).

 

This is why holidays are a gift. Yeah, you may think you're buying him, his time and his company. It may actually be true. In my humble opinion, the most precious thing one has is time, not money. As a woman/ mother-wannabe, my advice it to try to practice some unconditional love. Forgive your son for his selfishness and self centeredness - because that is the definition of pre-teens. Invite him along and ideally, do not put conditions to spending time together.

 

Teens are so sensitive to that. If you manage to create a bond with him, he'll want to come around and spend time with him. If you don't put conditions like "you have to come first", he won't feel taken into hostage, or forced into seeing you. I hated to be forced to spend time with my parents, at his age. Either one of them. If, on the other side, you do interesting stuff and he wants to come and participate - like bbq, or fishing trips or whatever other experience... well, then, everybody's a winner.

 

To a certain extent, love can be bought. IT just takes a bit of an effort to be the bigger person, in this equation. It'll pay off on the long run, in my humble opinion, but this - the money, the holiday, the time spent together - have to come from the heart. No resentment. Children feel it.

 

just my 2 cents, anyway

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Methodical
Methodical...There is a custody order in place. I have almost 50/50 joint custody of my children. I was in court last fall to try and enforce the order. It cost me probably 10K and nothing changed. I have followed all the appropriate steps, spent a great deal of money, even had her charged criminally with custodial interference. The city prosecutor did not want to pursue it because he felt he could not win, love our judicial system here!

At this point I really just want opinions of leaving my son home because I feel a little used. I can enjoy the time with two of my other children and allow my son to figure out our relationship on his own terms. If he never comes around again, while it is unfortunate, it is his decision.

 

Short rant:

 

That is financial rape and certainly not justice! I'll bet the outcome would have been very different had the table been turned :mad:. Sorry you have paid through the nose with dismal results to show for your effort. Okay, steam is still pouring from my ears, but the rant is over.

 

I don't want to trash talk your ex bc as Candie said, teenagers can be a handful and then some. But, there is no telling what your son has heard, which may also play into why he stopped coming around. I'm not saying your son has been brainwashed/convinced you are a villain, but it seems odd that your hunting and fishing buddy would suddenly want nothing to do with you. He is fourteen and very impressionable.

 

This vacation may give the two of you some much needed quality time and allow him to see things through his own eyes rather than through the eyes of your ex and possibly negative comments that have influenced his choice.

 

In your shoes, I'd give him the benefit of doubt this time and see what, if anything, develops.

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Candice, Methodical and Bathtub...I appreciate your perspectives on this issue!

 

Candice my mom used to say the same thing, ya catch more flies with honey/sugar than with vinegar. You are right time and willingness are very important factors in a relationship.

 

Methodical, you are right, the entire situation made me angry. I finally determined my anger was only ruining me, my day and ultimately my life...I had to let it go. I have heard someone of the negative comments he has been subjected too regarding me. So your points are well taken.

 

Bathtub, obviously we had some very similar ideas. For me, it's hard not view this this in terms of return on investment. So far the return has not been so positive. I will keep working at it though.

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I’d take him.

 

There’s this saying in some family courts that once they reach 13, they choose with their feet. In other words, it’s almost impossible to get a defiant teenager to go and stay where they don’t want to be.

 

I had primary custody of two kids - their dad didn’t want more than every other weekend and Wednesday dinner, and he dropped the dinner after about a year. Each of my kids refused to go see their dad in about that age range and it was such a fight to get them to go. I wanted them to go! They were so busy I never got me time unless they went. Their dad got mad at me about it- great, the kids are mad and he’s mad at me about it and I get to deal with all of the mad people, and they sure aren’t fixing it! lol It’s really exasperating. Over time they built direct relationships with him- one even lived with him for a while and didn’t see me. After that turmoil, everybody gets along now and enjoys each other, 10-15 years later. I say, go with the flow. Always keep the door open.

 

I’m not saying that you should let him extort you into buying him a BMW, just take him on the trip. If he scowls at you, so be it. Just show him that you’re always there and he's always welcome in your life.

 

edited to add- It didn't take 10-15 years. It took a year or so, on and off. But now it's unimaginable that they'd not be close to each of us.

Edited by BlueIris
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I’d take him.

 

There’s this saying in some family courts that once they reach 13, they choose with their feet. In other words, it’s almost impossible to get a defiant teenager to go and stay where they don’t want to be.

 

I had primary custody of two kids - their dad didn’t want more than every other weekend and Wednesday dinner, and he dropped the dinner after about a year. Each of my kids refused to go see their dad in about that age range and it was such a fight to get them to go. I wanted them to go! They were so busy I never got me time unless they went. Their dad got mad at me about it- great, the kids are mad and he’s mad at me about it and I get to deal with all of the mad people, and they sure aren’t fixing it! lol It’s really exasperating. Over time they built direct relationships with him- one even lived with him for a while and didn’t see me. After that turmoil, everybody gets along now and enjoys each other, 10-15 years later. I say, go with the flow. Always keep the door open.

 

I’m not saying that you should let him extort you into buying him a BMW, just take him on the trip. If he scowls at you, so be it. Just show him that you’re always there and he's always welcome in your life.

 

edited to add- It didn't take 10-15 years. It took a year or so, on and off. But now it's unimaginable that they'd not be close to each of us.

 

like x 10.

 

OP you need to reestablish your relationship, then you can 'teach life lessons'. he is a teenager. you are competing with his friends, netflix, on-line gaming (sometimes all of them). do i need to go further?

 

the fact he wants to go (and not being forced) is a door you should not close. this will be great opportunity to (eventually) get him to express HIS thoughts on HIS family situation. i fear rescinding the invite will be seen by him as another rejection.

 

BTW you have seen him only three times? does he play sports, theater, debate, etc: you should be attending (nearly) all the them. he will not show it now but will he will appreciate it as he ages. and don't say it can't be done --- i have 4.

 

pick him up after school someday and go --- to golf driving range, gun range, a ball game (minor league games are a great value). something different, something you can connect with him. something only you can give him.

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Beatcuff

 

Prior to when he stopped coming over he seemed interested in outdoors stuff. We were working on hunters safety for him to be able to hunt instead of just tagging along. He's done A LOT of fishing with me. While separated i did not know how much time I'd ultimately have with him after the divorce. So I took him with me to Alaska for 2 weeks, just him and me, none of my fiends went with.

 

He did baseball last year which I attended and took him to batting cages and worked with him on throwing and catching. He does not participate in any sports now for me to attend. He does have an x-box and is very into gaming. He brought it with him and I tried to play but he's a lot better than me. So i'd just watch him play instead, seemed to work out ok.

 

He's a scout and I've gone camping with the group of boys in his neighborhood twice. I haven't been told about other camps. He does not get along with his little sister who is with me all the time. So, I have invited him several times to come over by himself to get dinner and watch a movie. You know the 'guy' type movies, London has fallen, 13 hours. He initially says yes but then won't show. Won't answer his phone or text back for several days up to a week. It's just weird and I obviously don't get it.

 

I do appreciate all your advice and do agree there could potentially be some benefits from him going. I'll call him again and ask...hopefully he picks up! texted him twice this past weekend with no response. Weird

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Personally, I wouldn't take him. I agree that it would be teaching him to use you for whatever he wants. I think it's better to teach him that it's not ok to treat others that way. If he wants to mend things with you, then he needs to take steps to do that.

 

 

Disagree.

 

 

From where he's standing, he's not exactly seeing you fight for a relationship with him, is he.

 

 

You can teach life lessons IF you have a relationship, if you don't have a relationship first, your not teaching anything.

 

 

Why do you accept him not texting you back for a week? Why weren't you straight on it the first time it happened? Same with him suddenly not coming over, why weren't you more proactive?

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minimariah

i'd definitely take him. this is your chance to reconnect with him, at least for a while on that trip - if i were you, if i saw my child that rarely... i'd take any chance i could get to show my kid that i'm HERE and NOT going away.

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Once again thanks for all of the comments and perspective!

 

Mrduck, I guess I'm a little confused as to what you mean by not accepting when he won't contact me text/call. I do reach out but he won't answer. There is no expectation he contact and there is really no means for me to influence than attempt to contact him. And, I'll continue to try to contact him.

 

I do appreciate all the perspectives on this issue of taking him with me to Yellowstone.

 

Thank you again!

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Nature abhors a vacuum, if you don't or won't step up ~ man up and be his Father? Then someone will, or he will find someone who will.

 

And it doesn't have to be a step-father, nor does it have to be the X's new latest flame. It could be just some as little as a couple of years older or even a lot older.

 

With that said? That "someone" could be the most negative and devastating influence on your son's life. There are any number of possible outcomes, and scenarios could un-fold. Many is the young man or woman who feel upon negative influences due to not just a lack of parental guidance, but also just due a lack of parental presence!

 

Its not a question of whether he "wants to" or such, or thinks its fair, its a question of responsibility and obligation as a father to a child.

 

I'm not advocating your being a dictatorial club dragging Ogar, in insisting he conform to each and every schedule visitation, but I don't think it would be too much of your to ask ~ insist that he comply or meet you in the middle here, there, and now and again.

 

So what, that you spent X amount of dollars, did you think once you had children that you wouldn't spend X, Y, Z dollars in raising them?

 

If he doesn't want to spend time with you? Then SOMETHING'S up and you need to get busy finding out what it is, damned quick, fast and a hurry like.

 

He's either under the SUBTLE influence of his mother's parental alienation, (which is and can be very subtle) or he's under the influence of someone or something else. And you need to be finding out what that is, what it is that's change the dynamic of your and his relationship?

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Lois_Griffin
Methodical

 

I appreciate your response. I do not feel scored by my son. I do not believe it is a healthy relationship to see a family member or loved one simply for materialistic wants (presents/trips). I have not done anything to push him out. He was my little hunting and fishing buddy for a very long time. I am content to allow him to re-enter my life if he chooses.

 

My ex does not want my children to see me. She believes at 14 they don't need to come over and may choose. Her home is significantly easier to deal with. There are no expectation as far as school work or responsibilities around the home. My older daughters never came over. My son feels it is 'unfair' that he should have to come over. I worked very hard, spent a lot to time and money to 'work' towards a different relationship with my daughters. It did not change the outcome. Methodical I believe simply taking him on a vacation will not change the current dynamic.

Sooo...your wife is basically raising a bunch of self-entitled, irresponsible, lazy, self-indulged brats.

 

Children learn what they live. He's a product of her suck parenting. If she were a good parent, he wouldn't HAVE this attitude toward you. SHE'S the problem, not your son.

 

Be an adult and look PAST it, much as you want to kick him in the seat of the pants (and that might not be such a bad idea).

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No way in heck i'd leave him behind of he wants to go. Never waste an opportunity to bond with him. He'll remember this trip for the rest of his life. He'll also remember for he rest of his life if you refuse to take him. The rest of his life.

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seekingpeaceinlove

I'm also on the side of taking him. Though fleeting, this trip may be an opportunity for you to bond and reconnect with your kid. You may be able to talk to him and find out what is going on in his mind. Best case: You will have bonded with your son. Worse case: You don't bond but you will have made the effort...which goes a long way.

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dreamingoftigers

I wouldn't leave him behind.

 

I think the idea that your 14 year-old is "using you" for a little vacation is ...... Somewhat weird.

 

You can't know for sure his motivations, but you can screw up a chance to bind with him.

 

It sounds like you really resent him OP. if that's the case it does not surprise me that he doesn't want to spend much time with you.

 

Oddly, my father views himself often as being 'used' or 'victimized' despite multiple attempts to connect with him on any other level. He shuts down any health interaction with impunity, trues to throw money my way, and then whinges about how all he's good for is his money. (Even though the vast majority of the time I accept nothing like that from him.)

 

I find it's a pretty similar pattern, and a self-created projection that the kids are trying to drain you.

 

My employer us the same with his kids. But he doesn't engage them in any other way than financially. So he's taught them that that is who he is to them.

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Once again I appreciate all the responses! They have definitely allowed me look to this situation from a different perspective.

 

When my ex and I were first divorced I had this same type of estranged relationship with my older daughters. I made every possible effort to interact with them. I was constantly up at the school to give rides home, check them out and take them to lunch, take them to doctors appointments. unfortunately, still today, I only rarely see them.

 

I don't resent him, I just choose to go be happy even though he, as some have pointed out, is being very selfish! Lois pretty much hit the nail on the preverbal head.

 

Obviously there are 'issues' that I have little influence on at this time. If he wants a relationship I'm happy to have one. I appreciate all the feedback and I will be taking him this weekend. Shockingly he came over tonight!

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Once again I appreciate all the responses! They have definitely allowed me look to this situation from a different perspective.

 

When my ex and I were first divorced I had this same type of estranged relationship with my older daughters. I made every possible effort to interact with them. I was constantly up at the school to give rides home, check them out and take them to lunch, take them to doctors appointments. unfortunately, still today, I only rarely see them.

 

I don't resent him, I just choose to go be happy even though he, as some have pointed out, is being very selfish! Lois pretty much hit the nail on the preverbal head.

 

Obviously there are 'issues' that I have little influence on at this time. If he wants a relationship I'm happy to have one. I appreciate all the feedback and I will be taking him this weekend. Shockingly he came over tonight!

 

Glad to hear it.

 

Eh, He's a teenager. Some aren't very cuddly sweet ALL the time, divorce or not. Keep at it. :)

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I had this same type of estranged relationship with my older daughters.

 

maybe its not him?

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