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Wife wants to baptise our baby...I don't.


Taucher

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Hello all,

 

I am an atheist, always have been. My wife is (nominally) a catholic and is from South America where Catholicism is more common and part of the culture. We have a 4 month old son. Everything is fantastic.

 

Before we had a child my wife mentioned about baptising him/her when they came along. This is more for her parents and grandparents benefit. At the time I said that yes, of course if it is important to her family, our child can be baptised.

 

Now that the time has come and we actually have a baby I feel uneasy about it. My wife is going to her country for 2 weeks without me (I will join her later) and the plan was to get our son baptised then.

 

Now I feel like our son can be baptised when he is old enough to make the decision. I dont like the idea of the church getting their hands on my son and feeling like he is officially one of them.

 

As I said, when he is older he can be baptised if he would like and I would attend and be very proud, but right now I'm not happy.

 

Am I being unfair?

 

Thanks

 

T

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Lois_Griffin

Like it or not, you agreed to it back before you had kids. It's not like she's pulling some kind of evil surprise on you.

 

 

You may be an atheist and while she's not a devout practicing Catholic, she probably still takes solace in knowing your son is Baptized.

 

 

It's not like they're going to brand him or something.

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Yep - you are being unfair. You said yes. This is important to her. Now stick to it.

 

It's just a ceremony. It won't change your child, or change your wife.

 

Doesn't matter if "the church" feels like he is one of them. That doesn't change anything real in your life.

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Hmmm.. since this ceremony has zero magical effect on the child and is not going to change the love you have... garner this deed. Its water. Its not going to harm the child is it? Usually I look at it from a pragmatic view. If its of no harm, and the medical community has not condemned the practice, then its fair to perform. I'm sure that your values as a non believer can be an asset in the formitable years...

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Disagree with above. You are allowed to change your mind, and if it's just water than why do it?

 

Both parents have a right to decide.

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GunslingerRoland

This seems like it could be a big issue. I mean if you're such an adamant atheist, why would you marry into a catholic family in the first place?

 

 

But you made the decision so you have to deal with it now.

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Non-believer here. Well, not in organized religion that is.

 

So with that being said - here is why you should have your son baptized: for you this is a philosophical question at heart. For her this is a salvation question. Let me digress a bit:

 

For you this is about choice. If he chooses to embrace God and enter the church. I got that - and there is nothing wrong with this line of thinking. You probably see this act of baptism as a ritual. Something people do when they decide to become Catholic (or whatever sect of Christianity). There is nothing magical or mystical about it. It signifies a person's decision and since a 4 year old ins't in a position to decide, why do it? Right?

 

For her this is about his soul and salvation. Baptism is key to the belief in salvation and the afterlife. There is something mystical that occurs with the act. And without it, his soul is in jeopardy in the afterlife. There will be a time for choosing - called "confirmation". But right now he needs to be baptized to protect his soul in the afterlife if something untoward were to happen to him.

 

The stakes are so much higher for her. She's concerned about his soul in the afterlife. To not baptize him would be almost be bad parenting and wanton disregard. Your concerns, while valid, simply do not measure up to her fears regarding his soul.

 

You also should sit with the fact that in her mind your wife probably also has had to accept the idea that you won't be joining her in heaven. Yet she still chooses to be with you. Honor her choice by not depriving her of the idea that her son won't be joining her as well. You should be supportive of your wife and have him baptized.

 

Again - remember this is coming from an unbeliever.

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I'm a believer but not Catholic and I agree that baptism should be a choice made by the individual being baptized. However I think Catholics believe that if a person dies without baptism then they get stuck in a type of purgatory or something like that so if your wife believes that I can see why getting the baby baptized is important to her. I agree with Mrin that the baptism means far more to your wife then not being baptized means to you. Since you are not a believer it's doesn't even mean anything, it's just a little water and it's not going to harm your baby.

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I'm not religious but this is something that I would give into if it were important to my spouse or family. It doesn't mean the child has to grow up in the church or be a Catholic or even be religious later. That would be the more important thing to be on the same page about with my spouse.

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Before you got married was the time to agree on this -- and you did and now you're stuck with a lifetime of religious zealousness being foisted on your child. But don't worry, they don't just pay attention to the one who talks the loudest. My mother was a traditional not-very-practicing Christian, but she felt strongly everyone should obey the rules. My dad came from Native American stock and they hated the missionaries and puritans who held them hostage and forced them to convert after killing their livelihood just so they could feed their children. So my dad only had one thing to say about it and that was it, but that was enough. I am spiritual but not Christian. Your child has a brain. As long as you don't agree to let her be completely brainwashed and entrenched in, say, religious school with all that guilt to wrestle with, she will be okay and make her own choices. Don't let her go overboard though and only allow her in religious schools. That's just brainwashing. Kids should have an overview of the world's biggest religions so they understand not everyone believes the same and that that's okay. Teach her tolerance, that's all.

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Just a bit of water on his head. No problem.

 

If your kid is smart enough he will figure it out, hopefully with your help.

 

As an atheist myself, I understand that many of us have this antichurch extremism phase, but then you realize that, since all religions have as much value as toilet paper, whatever things they do are of no consequence.

 

I was baptized myself and I was an atheist since age 9, pretty much when I figured it all out.

 

Just teach your kid that this is all a big pile of you know what and let them put water on his head.

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Just teach your kid that this is all a big pile of you know what and let them put water on his head.

 

Or - just talk to him, encourage him to explore, and guide him to follow his own path, whatever that may be. Indoctrination is indoctrination, whether it is religion, or anti-religion.

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I'm an atheist and we had our kids baptized. It's an important family tradition and harms none.

 

I promise, the kids don't even remember it :p

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I'm an atheist and we had our kids baptized. It's an important family tradition and harms none.

 

I promise, the kids don't even remember it :p

 

This. I also do not understand what the OP was expecting when he married into a Catholic family. It amazes me that couples do not agree on what religion to raise their children with before they marry and have kids.

 

My husband is an atheist. I was raised Catholic though I don't believe in many central tenets of that faith anymore. My beliefs could best be described as Liberal Christian. It helps that I don't attend church and my husband respects my faith as I respect his atheism.

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This seems like it could be a big issue. I mean if you're such an adamant atheist, why would you marry into a catholic family in the first place?

 

 

But you made the decision so you have to deal with it now.

 

Do you think people shouldn't marry across religions? We both love each other and respect each other's views.

 

Also, I would call myself an 'adamant atheist', just an atheist. Is a catholic who goes to church weekly an adamant catholic?

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Or - just talk to him, encourage him to explore, and guide him to follow his own path, whatever that may be. Indoctrination is indoctrination, whether it is religion, or anti-religion.

 

Absolutely agree with this. Me wife admits that she is a catholic because her parents are and I know I am an atheist because my parents are. Our child will be able to see both sides and decide for himself. I would never tell my son that religion is a big pile of anything. The official line is going to be that his mother believes in god and I don't.

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Thanks for your replies everyone. I put this question in a catholicism forum and an atheist forum also - have a broad range of opinions.

 

I am not sure that I was clear in my original message - when I said my wife is nominally a catholic I meant she is by birth and by culture. She does not consider herself to be a catholic anymore but her belief in god is still strong. She does not feel it is at all important for our son to be baptised and would be happy for him to do it when older should he want to. It is her family who think it is necessary.

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Coming from a Mormon background culturally we get baptised at 8 for Mormons > to us baptism means knowing right from wrong age of accountability> I agree with you he should choose because it's a serious commitment not to be taken lightly in my opinion but good luck

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How religious is your wife?

Does she say grace before meals? Does she recite the rosary under her breath? Does she dress somberly on sundays and attend mass? Is she closely involved with any outside-church practises, but associated with the church, like out-of-mass gatherings, social events centering on the religious community, that kind of stuff?

 

My Italian family are Roman Catholic. My Grandmother did all of the above; she was responsible for the upkeep and maintenance of a local capelletta, (not this one but one very like it...more formal, bigger, with a metal gate....) and changed the flowers regularly, swept up the leaves, replenished the votive candles, kept the altar clear of debris....She also cleaned the church, helped decorate it for christenings, weddings and funerals... of all the 8 children she had, only 2 (eldest daughter and youngest daughter!) ever followed in her footsteps in that regard. All the others stopped going to church, or did not hold it to such importance as she did. Of my many, many cousins, I would say a quarter, go to church regularly. And I would say that's really 'just for show'....

 

I'm Buddhist. There you go.

 

It depends on how deeply religious she is, as to how heavily your son will be influenced.

If she's doing this to keep face with her family, believe me, that's not a bad move.

I will say I am of your opinion. Registering a child into a religion when it's not old enough to have a say in the matter, is like deciding he's Democrat or Republican.

As in Politics, a person should weigh up the different factors and make their own mind up.

 

But - as in politics - your son, brought up in a balanced, non-biased and fair-minded environment - will make his own mind up anyway.

 

I would tell him that it's not just a simple case of God or not-god though.

I would broaden his vision and let him know a bit about the melting-pot that is different callings. He will have a bright and educated head on his shoulders if he knows a little about Judaism, Hinduism, Islam, Christianity, Buddhism and sikhism.... they're the major 6.

A broad canvas but one worth covering, IMHO.

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You also should sit with the fact that in her mind your wife probably also has had to accept the idea that you won't be joining her in heaven.

 

Not necessarily. The pope decided that atheists can get to heaven a couple of years ago.

 

Pope Francis assures atheists: You don?t have to believe in God to go to heaven | Europe | News | The Independent

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Do you think people shouldn't marry across religions? We both love each other and respect each other's views.

 

Also, I would call myself an 'adamant atheist', just an atheist. Is a catholic who goes to church weekly an adamant catholic?

 

You sound young, hipsterish, and desperate to invent yourself, are you in your early 20's ?

 

Let me give you some perspective.

- you agreed with this, you cannot back now; even if you back from it, and she agrees with you, it will still be a datapoint of resentment later on

- it is most likely an event planned with her family, even if she agrees with you, her family will end up in opposite sides with you, great start in the marriage, awesome with close knit SA families

- you live in the Divorce capital of the world; every woman that can get divorced in England, does so because the laws favor them, and every woman that wants to get divorced and can do so in London is thankfull for that, are you really going to start a dispute over something you already promised in that city ?

I'm not saying she will divorce you, but this will be a huge 'thing' she will remember and hold against you if it comes to that.

- even if you do accept it, it's not enough; you need to be there, at the event, in the picture, respectfull of their customs .... or else you have started this marriage on the very wrong foot.

 

Marriage is about compromise, and you are backing away from a deal (very far from compromise).

You have chosen very poorly the hill to make a stand on.

 

PS: My family is christian orthodox, i was baptised at 2 months old and i'm quite convinced there is no God.

 

I also agree 100% agree with TaraMaiden, and i admire Buddhism.

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Thanks for your replies everyone. I put this question in a catholicism forum and an atheist forum also - have a broad range of opinions.

 

I am not sure that I was clear in my original message - when I said my wife is nominally a catholic I meant she is by birth and by culture. She does not consider herself to be a catholic anymore but her belief in god is still strong. She does not feel it is at all important for our son to be baptised and would be happy for him to do it when older should he want to. It is her family who think it is necessary.

 

It is still best to do it now.

Family poisoning the ear of one of the spouses, is probably one of the biggest divorce generators, and i have seen it in play many times. My cousin's mother-in-law did this to her daughter, in another case a family who was friends with ours drove their son-in-law to literally running away from his family (his child too), and dissapearing into the world ... sure she regrets letting her parents have a say in her marriage now, but what good does regret do now ?

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Do you think people shouldn't marry across religions? We both love each other and respect each other's views.

 

Also, I would call myself an 'adamant atheist', just an atheist. Is a catholic who goes to church weekly an adamant catholic?

 

I would call them "observant" or perhaps even "devout." If your wife goes to church weekly, she is certainly not "nominally" Catholic, that's for sure.

 

I lived for some time in Mexico and even married a Mexican woman. In my experience, Latin Americans are not "fundies" like we have here in the US. They don't wear Jesus on their sleeves and they don't quote the Bible every chance they get. However, their beliefs really are strong. I am sure that baptizing your child means far more to her than not baptizing your child means to you.

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You sound young, hipsterish, and desperate to invent yourself, are you in your early 20's ?

 

Let me give you some perspective.

- you agreed with this, you cannot back now; even if you back from it, and she agrees with you, it will still be a datapoint of resentment later on

- it is most likely an event planned with her family, even if she agrees with you, her family will end up in opposite sides with you, great start in the marriage, awesome with close knit SA families

- you live in the Divorce capital of the world; every woman that can get divorced in England, does so because the laws favor them, and every woman that wants to get divorced and can do so in London is thankfull for that, are you really going to start a dispute over something you already promised in that city ?

I'm not saying she will divorce you, but this will be a huge 'thing' she will remember and hold against you if it comes to that.

- even if you do accept it, it's not enough; you need to be there, at the event, in the picture, respectfull of their customs .... or else you have started this marriage on the very wrong foot.

 

Marriage is about compromise, and you are backing away from a deal (very far from compromise).

You have chosen very poorly the hill to make a stand on.

 

Thanks for your patronising post. At 36 I am not exactly young and I certainly wouldn't class myself as 'hipsterish'.

 

No 'event' or baptism has been arranged and nothing at this stage could be considered a great or bad 'start' to the marriage as we have been married for 5 years.

 

I respect your view that my child should be baptised but I think you make a lot of assumptions about my wife and her family.

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I would call them "observant" or perhaps even "devout." If your wife goes to church weekly, she is certainly not "nominally" Catholic, that's for sure.

 

I lived for some time in Mexico and even married a Mexican woman. In my experience, Latin Americans are not "fundies" like we have here in the US. They don't wear Jesus on their sleeves and they don't quote the Bible every chance they get. However, their beliefs really are strong. I am sure that baptizing your child means far more to her than not baptizing your child means to you.

 

My wife has been to church twice in the 6 years I have known her, and one of those times was our wedding. As stated, my wife has developed reservations about the catholic church and has said she is thinking about converting to the church of England.

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