Love my wife but not sure if love is strong enough to keep it together with her child

[Fakename]

Hey everyone, I just joined today after reading a handful of threads on the subject that some resonate with me, but my situation is a little different.

 

At the moment, I love my wife very much, but I'm not sure if I can continue to stay married with the current environment involving her child.

 

Here's how it all started..

 

5 years ago I met my wife through some friends, we're both fairly young (30 and 29). Things went great from the moment we met. When I first met her, she did NOT have a child with her. After a week of spending time together she told me she had 1 child, a 5 year old daughter. I had no issues with it.

 

The 5 year old daughter lived with her grandparents. Her biological father skipped town shortly after she was born due to legal issues, and move to a very far away country. The little girl never met him other than once when she was 3 years old, and it was only for a half day via the grandparents introducing them. After that day, the biological father never came back into the childs' life.

 

Her mother, my wife (girlfriend at the time) could NOT afford to raise the child alone (biological father never helped financially) so she move in with her parents for the first 2 years of the childs life, and then she left her daughter with her grandparents to help raise her as she went to move to the city to try and build a career for herself and hopefully be able to raise her daughter alone.

 

Oh, and before I continue, she actually had 2 children with the same man, but she gave one up for adoption a few weeks after he was born because of the same situation. So she only kept 1 child, which of course, she depended on her parents to essentially raise her for the first few years of her life.

 

So fast forward a few years later, and the child is now 5 years old, and her mother and I met. Soon after we met, we moved in together. Her daughter would stay with us on weekends and holidays, as we lived about 4 hours away from where the grand parents lived. When things got really serious, her daughter spent more time with us, and then eventually custody was given back to my wife (girlfriend at the time) and her daughter moved in with us.

 

Now, during the first few years of the child staying with us we had no real issues with her. She was kind and loving, but one thing we knew was that she was very very manipulative and used anyone and everyone as she could see fit for her benefit. Her grand parents would tell us horror stories of her such as never listening, sticking a knife up to the grand mother, breaking furniture and toys, attacking other children, never paying attention, and ultimately making the grandparents' life hell. The grandmother ended up having a nervous breakdown because of the child at the age of 8, a few months before she permanently moved in with us. But all while they were telling us these stories, we never ever saw it ourselves.

 

So now the child moved in with us, and we were trying to make a nice happy family. It lasted about a month. I had just finished building us a custom house, and all while having the childs' room decorated very pretty for her. I actually went far and beyond, I gave her all sort of things other children her age didn't have. Her own built in television in her room, a iPad and iPod so she could always be in touch with us and her grand parents, and of course, nothing but really nice family trips together.

 

But the good times didn't last... A couple months and she was enrolled into a private school. It cost her mother and I a lot of money, but we did our best to ensure she had the best education and kids around her. Public schools, as we all know, are a failure and a conglomerate of fall down kids and families and the teachers are under paid, so they can only hire the rejects of private schools.

 

So anyways, we pulled it together and enrolled her in the best school, and put her in a sports team, and of course, got her a tutor to help with her schooling (she was in the 4th grade).

 

It wasn't very long until all the problems the grand parents had, we had...

 

- Breaking every piece of furniture in her room

- Never listening

- Never doing her chores

- Always talking back

- Attacking our pets (two small dogs)

- Attacking kids at her school

- Only socializing with the older boys (7th grade, while she's in the 4th)

- Threatening to kill herself

- Writing very very disturbing things in her diary (which we always secretly read)

- Telling lies to her teachers and my parents about all sorts of things. From me being gone and never home, to my wife (girlfriend at the time) living in a hospice about to die. This was said so that she could avoid home work and when she got failing grades, it was used so that the administration felt sorry for her.

- Forging my signature for her red cards (when she didn't submit homework, or do her tasks)

- Fighting with other students, always having to sit by herself because the teacher would not be able to have her sit with other kids

- Taking clean clothes her mother washed and throwing them on the ground in dirty areas.

- Taking dirty clothes and stuffing it in kitchen cupboards and drawers

- Giving the dogs chocolate (Dogs had to go to the vet once). She didn't care if she killed them

- Taking garbage and throwing it everywhere

 

We had her enrolled with a tutor, as well I would do her homework with her every night, but she would never hand in the homework. She would take it, then throw it away behind my back. And when she had a test at her school, she would refuse to even do half of the questions. Ultimately she had a lot of failing grades.

 

The day I found her forging my signatures I went to have a meeting with the teacher and the principal, and they were in complete shock as to why the child had been doing all this. So now I had the teacher on speed dial, and we would text and talk regularly, and she would tell me how the child would always cause problems and she couldn't trust her in the class room anymore.

 

Her mother and I would always try and discipline her by taking away TV, toys, trips, clothes, etc. Nothing has worked. Spankings did nothing. 3 minutes later she would act like nothing happened, and couldn't even remember what she was in trouble for.

 

So we got counselling for her. The grand parents had gone through 1 or 2 counsellors for her, and nothing helped. So we tried 2, and they said they were unable to help her it was over their head. So we just hired a new psychologist for her for $4000 to have her assessed. The last psychologist assessed her as being borderline personality disorder, hence why she acted different in a matter of minutes with people and could never resonate or relate to emotions that normal humans felt.

 

So we are waiting for the assessment to come back, supposed to have them in 3 weeks.

 

My wife and I got married 4 months ago, and while we love each other, the child is ruining any chance of a happy house hold. This summer we sent her away for 2 months to the grandparents on both sides (maternal and paternal). We couldn't have her around us anymore, it was destroying us.

 

I want to have my own children with my wife, but I know for a fact that I can't as long as her daughter is in the picture. The daughter has already said that if we have any other children that she will hurt them, and everyone believes her. There is no doubt in our mind.

 

So here I am, 30 years old, absolutely head over heels for my wife, and I know I can't have a child with her because of her daughter.

 

Ive told her that if this continues that I will leave her, because I am too young to have my life ruined with the prospect of no children of my own because of the child she decided to have with her ex.

 

The child also has a lot of people in her life on the paternal side that she visits that we don't trust. Yet we send her there anyways because we can't stand having her at the house for more than 48-60 hours at a time. She's already scared off 1 baby sitter that we adored and trusted, because she stole something from a store and put it in her purse. When she found out, she told her mother that she no longer wanted to babysit for us.

 

I really don't know what to do anymore. I'm ****ing miserable here with this situation. I want children of my own, I love children and I know I would make a great father, but I can never be a father to my wife's child because she's so ****ed up. She has zero emotions, everything is fake and manipulated.

 

My wife knows if I leave her, that she can't afford to raise her daughter on her own. So it makes things very complicated because then she would probably have to figure out another place for her daughter to be, and then my wife would be alone again, and I want to be with her.

 

Anyone spare any advice here? We've been to counselling as a couple for this very situation BEFORE we got married, and nothing has gotten better since. The issue has always been the child.

[newmoon]

>>>>Ive told her that if this continues that I will leave her, because I am too young to have my life ruined with the prospect of no children of my own because of the child she decided to have with her ex.<<<

 

 

why do you want help for a situation you entered into with 100% knowledge and awareness of? did you think that because her daughter lived with the grandparents that she somehow would not be back with her mother? you knew she had a kid, you knew she had an ex, you knew everything, it's not like this was an unknown factor. she told you right away and you've had FIVE YEARS to sort it out before marrying her. you didn't have to marry her knowing the situation. the things you did/do for the girl, and things she did (acting out) can/do happen with all children, you own kids may do the very same. they may be worse. consider it all practice for your own kids. if we assume that the girl has something psychological, like a personality disorder, that could mean that your wife carries those genetics (unless her ex did) and the possibility of your kids having a psychological disorder are good as well if you have children with her. this is bizarre. you know the situation for years on end, marry into it and want out 4 months later?!

[Downtown]

FN, welcome to the LoveShack forum. If your stepD really does have BPD, she likely has at least one other PD as well. I say this because a large-scale study of BPDers found that to be the case for the vast majority of them. I mention it because you are describing a few traits and warning signs (e.g., the frequent manipulation, elaborate lies, and the physical abuse of animals and other children) that seem to go beyond BPD into the area of sociopathy (i.e., Antisocial PD).

 

If you are interested in reading more about BPD red flags, I provide a list at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read the more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. Much of that description is based on my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW. If it rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, FN.

[Fakename]

>>>>Ive told her that if this continues that I will leave her, because I am too young to have my life ruined with the prospect of no children of my own because of the child she decided to have with her ex.<<<

 

 

why do you want help for a situation you entered into with 100% knowledge and awareness of? did you think that because her daughter lived with the grandparents that she somehow would not be back with her mother? you knew she had a kid, you knew she had an ex, you knew everything, it's not like this was an unknown factor. she told you right away and you've had FIVE YEARS to sort it out before marrying her. you didn't have to marry her knowing the situation. the things you did/do for the girl, and things she did (acting out) can/do happen with all children, you own kids may do the very same. they may be worse. consider it all practice for your own kids. if we assume that the girl has something psychological, like a personality disorder, that could mean that your wife carries those genetics (unless her ex did) and the possibility of your kids having a psychological disorder are good as well if you have children with her. this is bizarre. you know the situation for years on end, marry into it and want out 4 months later?!

 

Ex has never been in the picture. He doesn't exist as far as child is concerned.

 

And again, I didn't see these issues until a couple months of her actually living full time with us. And it's gotten worse. I believe the issues come from obviously before I came in the picture, so I don't believe for a half second it would happen to my own kids. They wouldn't be raised in that environment, or with those types of people around.

 

As for my wife, she doesn't have any disorder, but yes her ex did have bipolar disorder, so it came from him I believe.

[Fakename]

FN, welcome to the LoveShack forum. If your stepD really does have BPD, she likely has at least one other PD as well. I say this because a large-scale study of BPDers found that to be the case for the vast majority of them. I mention it because you are describing a few traits and warning signs (e.g., the frequent manipulation, elaborate lies, and the physical abuse of animals and other children) that seem to go beyond BPD into the area of sociopathy (i.e., Antisocial PD).

 

If you are interested in reading more about BPD red flags, I provide a list at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read the more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. Much of that description is based on my 15 years of experience with my BPDer exW. If it rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. Take care, FN.

 

1. Black-white thinking, wherein she categorizes everyone as "all good" or "all bad" and will recategorize someone -- in just a few seconds -- from one polar extreme to the other based on a minor comment or infraction;

2. Frequent use of all-or-nothing expressions like "you always" and "you never;"

3. Irrational jealousy and controlling behavior that tries to isolate you away from close friends or family members;

4. A strong sense of entitlement that prevents her from appreciating your sacrifices, resulting in a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude (e.g., not appreciating all the 3-hour trips you made to see her for two years) and a double standard ;

7. Low self esteem;

8. Verbal abuse and anger that is easily triggered, in seconds, by a minor thing you say or do (real or imagined), resulting in temper tantrums or cold sulking that typically start in seconds and last several hours;

9. Fear of abandonment or being alone -- evident in her expecting you to “be there” for her on demand, making unrealistic demands for the amount of time spent together, or responding with intense anger to even brief separations or slight changes in plans;

10. Always being "The Victim," a false self image she validates by blaming you for every misfortune;

11. Lack of impulse control, wherein she does reckless things without considering the consequences (e.g., binge eating or spending);

16. Having many casual friends but not any close long-term friends (unless they live a long distance away);

17. Taking on the personality of whatever person she is talking to, thereby acting quite differently around different types of people; and

18. Always convinced that her intense feelings accurately reflect reality -- to the point that she regards her own feelings as self-evident facts, despite her inability to support them with any hard evidence.

 

I see her daughter in a lot of these unfortunately. This is maybe what the psychologist was also seeing.

[mrldii]

IF everything you've written is true (NOT saying it's not...it's just one affected-person's version of the story, which may or may not have filters applied), it reads like it IS your wife's choice...and your duty to stand by her choice.

 

IF, once diagnosed, there is no treatment/regimen to get the daughter's behavior under control (which she will need in life - with or without your or your wife's presence), and your wife chooses to remain with her child (which is her right and her obligation) in her own home, you may have no choice but to leave the marriage.

 

IF she chooses to institutionalize the child (because that is what has been professionally determined), then you can stay with your wife. And, deal with any emotional trauma / fall-out she goes through with that decision.

 

It's a pretty sh*tty situation, any way anyone looks at it...and probably all comes down to how *seriously* YOU take your wedding vows, especially the "for better or worse...in sickness and in health..." parts.

 

I don't believe anyone in their right mind - including your wife, once she gets over the shock and trauma - would fault you if you chose that enough is enough.

 

 

Best of everything to you in your upcoming - and probably ongoing - choices, OP...my heart goes out to you.

[Clarence_Boddicker]

You can never fill a hole with money.

[Quiet Storm]

My sister is BPD. In her mid thirties, she still lives with my parents. Shes divorced and doesn't have custody of her child.

 

Your stepdaughter probably felt very abandoned when her mother left her and moved away. Poor kid.

 

The harsh truth is that BPD doesn't go away with counseling or medication. It can be managed, but there will always be drama and that "walking on eggshells" feeling. If you are weighing the options, this is your reality. If you live in a household with a severe BPD, it is hard to be genuinely at peace, as you know. My sister's teenage years were filled with anger, tears, drugs, eating disorders, cutting, suicide attempts and manipulation. You also have to be prepared for a possible suicide. Doctors at Sheppard Pratt actually told my parents to accept that outcome.

 

I love her, but it's exhausting to love her. It hurts to love her. But I can't abandon her.

 

I am a person that sees marriage as for better for worse. You knew she had a child and married her. This is what commitment is all about- the bad times, helping each other through.

 

Your wife is probably so stressed and worried. My mom blamed herself (my sister was sexually abused and my mom didn't know). She never knew if she would be facing the sweet or raging version of my sister, she never knew if she'd succeed in her attempts to die or punish us. There were many late night heart dropping phone calls, drug overdoses, drunken screaming rages, lies, hospital rooms, stealing, broken household items, etc. It is so heartbreaking to be the mom of a BPD. To know you can't turn back time, you can't undo their hurt and pain, you can't give them a kiss and make it better.

 

Your wife needs you. Can you be a strong man for her? Do you want to?

 

It's a hard place to be in. I'm sorry you have to go though this.

[Art_Critic]

It sounds like you are blaming the child... it isn't the child's fault.. she is reacting to the horrible rejection/situation she was dealt with from her mother and father, she was abandoned and left to be raised by her grandparents.. what a horrible experience that must have been for her.

 

Today now her mom wants her back and she is going to reject you and act out like she is doing..

Do what you are doing.. get her help and show her love.. you can win with patience and love...and stop blaming the child for living an existence that the adults in her life have given her.

I know at age 8 that she should be held accountable for her actions.. don't get me wrong about that but it's going to take time, patience and love to win this girl back from the hell she was living...

 

Maybe you don't understand how being rejected by your parents can mess with you head.. but it can...

 

Good Luck

[knitwit]

I am not a psychologist. However, at least back when I worked in an adolescent psych hospital, the psychiatrists and counselors did not diagnose BPD until adolescence. If she is in 4th grade, she seems awfully young for an actual personality disorder diagnosis.

 

I am now "in training" to become a foster parent. Given her age and circumstance, it sounds more like she might have RAD- reactive attachment disorder. Reactive attachment disorder - Mayo Clinic

(ETA: The Mayo Clinic link indicates that the dx is usually given to kids under age 5, but in my foster care training it seems that it is also diagnosed in older pre-teens as well.)

 

It is rare but does occur in infants and young kids who have been not had their basic needs met, or who have been abandoned. As you can imagine, it is sadly more common in kids who have entered foster care than in the general population.

 

RAD is extremely difficult to handle. The kids who have it are not able to attach to people who love them. They are not able to have stable, loving relationships. They do things that are on the BPD list. It takes a long time and a lot of commitment to treat.

 

I have spoken with adoptive parents who have worked with their kids, and their kids were able to go on and have an attachment. It took a few years but it was successful. If your current psychologist isn't able to help you, you might consider calling up your local foster care agency and asking for the names of their recommended RAD specialists.

Edited September 29, 2015 by knitwit

[turnera]

l, too, think it's an attachment thing. That and being paired with grandparents too old and too unqualified to deal with her.

 

Looks like the OP didn't hear what he wanted to hear. Never came back.

[Lovelypearl]

I guess it's time to start using the cane. Flog her whenever she does something silly. When she can't bear the pain anymore, she'll start behaving well.

[mrs rubble]

I am not a psychologist. However, at least back when I worked in an adolescent psych hospital, the psychiatrists and counselors did not diagnose BPD until adolescence. If she is in 4th grade, she seems awfully young for an actual personality disorder diagnosis.

 

I am now "in training" to become a foster parent. Given her age and circumstance, it sounds more like she might have RAD- reactive attachment disorder. Reactive attachment disorder - Mayo Clinic

(ETA: The Mayo Clinic link indicates that the dx is usually given to kids under age 5, but in my foster care training it seems that it is also diagnosed in older pre-teens as well.)

 

It is rare but does occur in infants and young kids who have been not had their basic needs met, or who have been abandoned. As you can imagine, it is sadly more common in kids who have entered foster care than in the general population.

 

RAD is extremely difficult to handle. The kids who have it are not able to attach to people who love them. They are not able to have stable, loving relationships. They do things that are on the BPD list. It takes a long time and a lot of commitment to treat.

 

I have spoken with adoptive parents who have worked with their kids, and their kids were able to go on and have an attachment. It took a few years but it was successful. If your current psychologist isn't able to help you, you might consider calling up your local foster care agency and asking for the names of their recommended RAD specialists.

 

Absolutely agree she is too young to be diagnosed with BPD. The psychologist who diagnosed my son with conduct disorder explained this to me.

My son has been just as trying as this girl sounds. You're doing all you can, just like I did. There were days when I was ready to give up, but I hung in there.

When he pulled a knife on us, I called the police. I got support through the police youth aid officers. I sent him to anger management. I asked friends and family to help.

He's now very settled. He's 16 it's only been in the last year to 18 months that he's got his act together and I'm super pleased I didn't give up.

Wishing you luck.

[glendaisabel]

The child needs attention and love. I would suggest taking therapy as a family with a psychologist. This will pass. You will mature as a family and learn to love and understan each other. Find a psychologist and go!

[acrosstheuniverse]

That poor girl. She clearly has some serious emotional and behavioural problems thanks to her upbringing, and no wonder. Being abandoned by her Dad, then by her Mom (in her own eyes), then removed from the people who raised her and placed back in an Insta-family with her Mom and her new boyfriend, and expected to just slot right in. It'd be a very very rare kid not to have serious problems with so much abandonment in their young life so far. It sounds like your wife did what she had to do to get the girl taken care of so please don't take that as judgement (apart from the girl's Father, who by the sounds of it just abandoned all responsibilities... I cannot fathom how any human being can do this to a child they created and yet I see it around me all the time). I'm just saying, please see this is as a problem for you and your wife to fix as a team, you married her knowing she had this girl. You're going to have to provide a united front to the girl and continue to show her unconditional love for possibly many months and years before she starts to settle and truly allow herself to believe that this is forever and she can let her guard down.

 

Make leaving your wife the absolute LAST resort, you married her and agreed to be with her forever. I know you want kids but you guys are still young and have another five years comfortable in which to procreate and see if things work out with her daughter's behaviour by that point.

 

I would continue very hard to find the correct child psychologist for her, and don't write them off too quickly, many times it takes months and years of therapy for changes to start to be made, I get passing over the ones who said it's way beyond their capabilities but keep trying to find the right person who'll stick with her.

 

For now, why don't you take her out of private school? I disagree that all state schools are sink holes, however the way she is at the minute she probably isn't going to make the most of her schooling for a couple years yet and you're just throwing money down the drain enrolling her there. Can you enrol her in a state school for the next couple years, or until high school?

 

From your perspective I sense frustration, that you've given her everything you can imagine a young kid to want (beautiful house, lovely room full of toys and technology, a parental unit for the first time, great private schooling, family holidays) but from her perspective I wouldn't be surprised if she's feeling a massive weight of expectation, like she's got to slot into this perfect idyllic family life that just isn't hers, feels like a transplant, like it could all be lost at any point. Maybe she feels so much pressure on her to act like everything is okay and she's reacting by acting out? How about enrolling her in the state school, not trying to throw loads of expensive gadgets at her, focus on family holidays being little local trips away somewhere for the day, show her unconditional love, discipline her for bad behaviour but make sure she knows how loved she is at the same time. Try not to get angry with her, remain disapassionate when she misbehaves. The poor kid threatening to hurt any new baby in the family sounds like she's trying desperately to protect her place in the family, or as though she's afraid that if the baby comes along she'll be out in the cold again, or possibly she's just not ready for her brand new settled family unit to be compromised again. Instead of seeing her as your wife's child, she's a child taken care of by the marriage now. Your speaking about 'I can't have my own child cos of my wife's kid', that attitude will be picked up on by the girl. Instead of seeing her as your wife's kid, start seeing her as your stepdaughter, or eventually even better, your daughter. I know lots of people who've married into stepkids who over time drop the 'step' (unless there's another bio parent around who'd be massively disrespected) and don't differentiate between their kids and the kids they gained through marriage. What does the little girl call you?

 

Unfortunately her early life circumstances have had a serious effect on this kid and will continue to do so for a very long time. Settle in for the long road. And realise that it's adults who've created this problem, it's your job to fix it. I'm no expert but hopefully I've given you a few things to think of. In the meantime I'm sure it IS an enormous stress for you, despite calls for you to be the perfect stable, kind, calm father, maybe some individual counselling for you, perhaps intermittently, would help you? A person you can be completely honest with, whereas I'm sure you can't with your wife. And who'll support you while you're trying to make this situation work for all involved. I know it's tough when she's acting like a demon child but she really truly is just a little kid.

 

I truly hope you're reading these responses even if you don't reply again...

Edited October 14, 2015 by acrosstheuniverse

[GunslingerRoland]

I'm assuming you are in the USA, and since I'm Canadian I don't know as much about services there. But here there are lots of supports for families with someone with a mental issue like that. You may have access to free counseling, subsidized respite care (you can't hire a normal babysitter for a child like that) and lots of other things.

 

You are clearly in way over your heads on this, and you need the help of professionals.

 

And I'd agree that wasting money on private school that should be going to her psych care is pointless. Most of the population goes to public school and do just fine.

[minimariah]

They wouldn't be raised in that environment, or with those types of people around.

 

you're missing your own wife's issues & her failed parenting. she's irresponsible - kept having kids with a problematic man & an absent dad and while she knew she can't raise them on her own. then "dumped" her kid to her grandparents and instead of working on her daughter's issues and spending every available moment with her - moved in with YOU.

 

so your own kids would have SOME type of problems since they would be raised by the same problematic mother.

[malinda]

I totally sympathise with you 100%. First of all I think its very admirable that you are providing and caring for your family the way you are. I think your marriage, character and mental strength will be continually challenged because there is no easy solution. She most probably does have a behavioural disorder stemming from something but to diagnose BPD for an 8 year old is drastic. Most people who suffer BPD, bipolar, schizophrenia dont get episodes till later in life.

 

I know of a few children that had anger/behavioural issues who are now normal and balanced adults. I think you should be strong and hang on to your marriage and hopefully if she gets the right therapy she may turn out just fine in the years to come.

Edited December 3, 2015 by malinda

[Jane_Tee_11]

Make it last until you hit the ledge where you will hate each other into eternity. Adulthood can be unpleasant. Marriage is a contract to raise children together, which includes building financial security, emotional and spiritual maturity, and putting yourself second.

 

 

Children do not ask to be born. They are subjected to coming into an environment where they must adjust and adapt. As an adult, we must do our best to respect that our kids need us and stability until they can truly launch on their own.

 

 

Do this until you are on the verge of being insane or inhuman.

[bathtub-row]

I think it was very self-serving of your wife to leave this child with relatives so that she could pursue a career, or whatever. The child is completely damaged from being abandoned. I doubt she is fixable, unfortunately. She will probably need to be committed.

 

It's also likely that the girl was abused in some way - most likely sexually. This isn't something your wife will ever know, however, because she handed her child over to someone else.

 

I think what surprises me the most is that you would have any respect for a woman who has abandoned two children. I personally would never be involved with someone like this. Not sure what to tell you at this point since you married her. Either have the child committed or leave this situation altogether. If you can afford it, it would be a nice gesture if you could leave your wife with something sustainable - like the house. I don't know but you dug this hole so, if you leave, it seems that the right thing to do would be to not leave her in a desolate state.