At wits end

[Stealing_Serenity]

I posted here a long time ago about my son and his father's relationship, his father and I have been divorced over five years now....and that's actually a better thing for all of us.

 

Our son is almost 20 now, and has a lot of ambition at truly doing nothing with his life IMO. He wants to go to college, he graduated high school with a 1.99 GPA as he thinks he is too smart to really apply himself to anything. I've told him many times I would help him if he helps himself....meaning he has to have a financial investment in it as well, in the hopes that he would actually apply himself and achieve rather than coast on through as he typically does.

 

Yesterday, he concocted a new scheme for getting a better car than he already has. He talked with a salesman at a dealership who (of course) informed him he was being ripped of and he could get him a nicer car and fix all his poor little woes. I know that sounds cynical, and yes I am being cynical because his poor little woes will add an additional few hundred dollars to my continually decreasing budget as he wants me to agree to pay his insurance (which I've already been doing for 2 years).

 

When our son gets his mind set on something, he will get what he wants. He will scream, yell, bully and insult you to no end to get what he wants. He doesn't do this to his dad, he only does this to me. His father always has the perfect "out" on helping his son with anything, he just claims poverty as he hands his paycheck over to his wife and says ask her...which our son won't because he knows she can't stand him.

 

I've had the sheriff at my house more times than I want to count. I co-signed last year for a better car for him after he totaled his previous car. The agreement was he made his payments and insurance or I would sell the car. He made the first one....then quit four jobs in one month and couldn't make the next one. I paid it, but I informed him that if he couldn't keep a job, the car goes. He flipped out and I called the sheriff, they put him and his girlfriend (at the time) out of my house and I locked the car up in the garage...locking him out of the house. My daughter has the car now and has been making the payments on the account which has actually helped to build his credit.

 

I'm really at my wits end on how to help him....I insist he has to show he wants to help himself, but he has little ambition to. The whole world is against him and it's supposedly my responsibility to make his life better. He doesn't seem to get the fact that he still has a roof over his head, he pays no rent, no electric bill, no water bill, free cable, free internet. He pays his own cell phone (which he got me to pay for him last month), and he gets $10's and $20's here and there for gas from me. But still, his life is S*** and I do nothing for him...............................

 

I really don't know what else to do....I know I will probably hear "throw him out of the house", "stop doing anything for him", etc....those are all easy answers but come with a price to my mental health. I really have days that I hate that I wake up.....I pray for a heart attack or an 18-wheeler to take me out on the highway because I just don't want to deal with this crap anymore. I've tried to put positive thoughts out there for him, have tried to encourage him....and it's like being drained of any positive energy as he has a negative comeback for any decent advice. It all comes down to how I've let him down as a parent, how his father and I have done nothing for him and his life is crap because of us. I just pray for the day that he can be proud of himself and accomplish something so we can be proud of him too.

[Quiet Storm]

I understand it must be hard for you because I think he has to want to change. If you kick him out, will that really motivate him or will that just prompt him to fall further? I have seen both sides of it. Sometimes having to stand on their own prompts action and motivation. Other times, they just sink into depression, hanging around the wrong people, and end up committing crimes to get money.

 

My son is 19, in college full time, with a part time job, and pays his own car insurance and cell phone. He naturally wants to do well, and I think a big part of that is his peers and the people he hangs out with. They all have big aspirations and being lazy is just not an option. Does your son have positive role models or peers who could talk to him or spend time with him? The key is that he needs to surround himself with positive people who want to make something of themselves. That attitude really does rub off on people. It sounds like your son is just lost and depressed and doesn't really know what to do with himself. Does he have any hobbies that he could spark a career out of? For example, if he's into cars, could he go to trade school to be a mechanic?

 

I understand not wanting to throw him out for your own mental health, as I would be so worried if I was in your situation and had to kick my kid out. However, he's not going to just suddenly get an epiphany and change. Something has to be the motivator.

[Downtown]

He will scream, yell, bully and insult you to no end to get what he wants.... He flipped out and I called the sheriff.... I've had the sheriff at my house more times than I want to count.

Serenity, I agree with QuietStorm that your son has to want to change, which means you cannot fix things for him. My greater concern, however, is that you're not describing a 19 year old who is simply lazy but, rather, one who appears to be behaving like an adult whose emotional development may have frozen at the level of a young child.

 

I am referring to the yelling, screaming, bullying, verbal insults, temper tantrums, and behavior so outrageous that his own mother has had to call the sheriff to force him out of the house on many occasions. It therefore would be helpful, for purposes of this discussion, if you would tell us just how bad his behavior was when you called the police. Specifically, what do you mean when you say "he flipped out"?

 

He doesn't do this to his dad, he only does this to me. His father always has the perfect "out"....

I seriously doubt that his father has "the perfect out," as you say. As you know too well, all the reasoning and explanations in the world have zero impact on your son when he is determined to get his way. Hence, finding "the perfect out" would provide you no protection whatsoever. The likely reason that the father escapes the verbal abuse and temper tantrums is that, unlike you, he has established firm boundaries and has consistently enforced them -- making it absolutely clear that your son's manipulations and temper tantrums won't get him anywhere with his father.

 

I suggest you do likewise. Instead of enabling your son's childish behavior to continue by being overprotective, you should be allowing him to suffer the logical consequences of his own bad choices and obnoxious behavior. Otherwise, he has no incentive to grow up emotionally and start taking responsibility for his own actions.

[Stealing_Serenity]

I understand it must be hard for you because I think he has to want to change. If you kick him out, will that really motivate him or will that just prompt him to fall further? I have seen both sides of it. Sometimes having to stand on their own prompts action and motivation. Other times, they just sink into depression, hanging around the wrong people, and end up committing crimes to get money.[/Quote]

 

Thank you Quiet Storm and that is exactly right, he has to want to change. He came to me today and said he hates that he messed up so bad in High School. I had him in Early College (five years gets you your HS Diploma and 2 year Associate's degree), he realizes that had he worked harder, he would have a very good chance at a good college education.

 

He does have some friends who are good role models for him, one who has been his friend since elementary school. This friend sat him down last year and royally chewed him out for his lack of ambition.

 

He talked to me some today about the "car" he wants to get and has agreed that he will pay $100/mth towards the incremental increase in the car insurance. I'm not going to say I haven't heard this before, but if he keeps his word...even that much improvement will be worth it. I've also informed him that I will not dole out any cash or put my name on anything this time. This will be his fifth car in two years.

 

He is interested in working on cars and has talked about taking the auto classes at the local community college. I've always informed him that he has to pay for his first quarter and then I will judge by his grades and his effort on helping him with some of it. I know he needs to invest in himself, I would love for him to find some pride in himself doing that, I know it would make me proud of him as well.

 

Specifically, what do you mean when you say "he flipped out"?[/Quote]

 

Thank you for weighing in Downtown, by flipping out....it starts out with an attitude and escalates to full blown red-faced screaming at me, crying, cursing at me and has wound up with holes in the wall, two fist marks in my refrigerator door (that was when I took his car away from him, the holes in the wall were when I shut his cell phone off for screaming at me, back when I was paying the bill). And technically, his behavior has been "better" since I stuck to my guns and took the car away that he couldn't pay on.

 

It's usually when I don't agree, or I say no...or I stand my ground that it gets really bad. I try to enforce the boundaries and he has resort to, what I would call, emotional extortion. Last night it was that I was being unreasonable and why couldn't I see that this was what he and his friend (18 year old who passed away in his sleep 6 months ago) wanted and was their dream to fix up an old car one day. I tried explaining to him that it doesn't have to be "right this minute" because that is what he wants, get a full-time job and save up for it.

 

And, to note, I know that he is still grieving for his friend and he and I talk about that, I always give him a shoulder or an ear when he wants to talk about him. I know how that feels and talking about it helps, I just don't like the way he used it as validation for what he wants right this minute.

 

I would agree that he doesn't get that way with his dad now, but when he was living with his dad the last year of high school, they too had their issues. I tend to believe the issue stems from ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder), I've tried to get him diagnosed several years ago when I had him in counseling, but his father put up such negativity that our son was seeing a therapist that I couldn't even get him to go anymore.

 

Instead of enabling your son's childish behavior to continue by being overprotective, you should be allowing him to suffer the logical consequences of his own bad choices and obnoxious behavior. Otherwise, he has no incentive to grow up emotionally and start taking responsibility for his own actions.

 

I do know that something has got to change and I feel that has to be me in this situation, and you are correct in that assessment Downtown. I think he has the capacity to learn from the consequences as I have seen some positive behavior come from shutting off the cell phone and sticking to my word on the car situation. I just wish that it didn't come with such a high price like destruction of property or my nerves unraveling.

 

At the end of the day, he's my son and I love him. I want nothing more for him than to be successful and independent. A friend told me today about careers in cyber security and that colleges were doing a lot of scholarships in that field, may be worth looking in to with him.

 

Thank you both for replying, it's nice to have some other perspectives other than my family who just say "Kick him out!!" .

[Downtown]

I tend to believe the issue stems from ODD (Oppositional Defiant Disorder).

Serenity, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., severe temper tantrums, lack of impulse control, self destructive, black-white thinking, very controlling, strong sense of entitlement, always being "The Victim," and vindictiveness -- are usually characterized as ODD in children. If those symptoms persist and grow stronger, they are usually labeled "Conduct Disorder" when seen in adolescents. Moreover, if they persist at a strong level when the individual turns 18, they typically are called "personality disorder" (PD) symptoms.

 

Generally, psychologists are extremely reluctant to apply "personality disorder" to any pattern of dysfunctional behavior occurring before age 18 because, due largely to the hormone changes, adolescents are going through so many changes that it is very difficult to identify those who won't manage to grow out of the bad behaviors by their late teens. My understanding, then, is that it is unusual for a psychologist to use the term ODD for an adult. (But it might occur in some circumstances, as is discussed at WiseGeekHealth.)

 

I've tried to get him diagnosed several years ago when I had him in counseling, but his father put up such negativity that our son was seeing a therapist that I couldn't even get him to go anymore.

Given your son's unwillingness to seek therapy, I suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you are dealing with. I also suggest that, while you're looking for a good psych, you read about the warning signs for BPD (Borderline PD) to see if they seem to apply. If your son were incapable of loving people, I would suggest you also take a look at the red flags for ASPD (Antisocial PD). Yet, because he was so torn up by the loss of his friend, and because you feel he truly does love you and his father, you are not describing the key warning signs for ASPD.

 

Importantly, I'm not suggesting your son has a full-blown PD but, rather, that he might exhibit moderate to strong traits of BPD or another PD. I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your son exhibits BPD traits. Of course he does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether he exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met him, I cannot know the answer to that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD (or ASPD) warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as temper tantrums, inability to trust, always being "The Victim," and rapid event-triggered mood flips.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your son's issues. Only a professional can do that. The main reason for learning these red flags, then -- like learning warning signs for stroke and breast cancer -- is to help you decide whether there is sufficient reason to spend $150-$200/hour to seek a professional opinion.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most of those signs sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss it with you. If most are NOT familiar, however, I would suggest you read about the red flags for ASPD and Intermittent Explosive Disorder (which, unlike ODD, is always applied to adults, not children). Take care, Serenity.

[Stealing_Serenity]

This one was interesting as I had not heard of it before, Intermittent Explosive Disorder. Sounds closer to the root of the issue. But it makes sense as it is an Impulse-Control Disorder, would this also be classified as Anger Management?

 

There were some of the BPD traits I could attribute for the whole family dynamic when his father and I were together. And I do agree, we all have some BPD traits since they broadened the spectrum to include more symptoms.

 

The therapist that he saw before, she brought his anger out and addressed it. She was very firm with him, which I felt was a good thing for him, but it may not have been the "right" kind of therapy for his anger.

 

Good points Downtown and again....thank you.

[Downtown]

This one was interesting as I had not heard of it before, Intermittent Explosive Disorder. Sounds closer to the root of the issue. But it makes sense as it is an Impulse-Control Disorder, would this also be classified as Anger Management?

As I understand it, Serenity, IED symptoms typically occur when the person has explosive anger that is triggered in seconds and then, after the mood has passed, he usually is extremely apologetic and very sorry it occurred. Hence, an IED sufferer has a lack of impulse control and an anger problem.

 

In contrast, BPD symptoms go well beyond that. For one thing, there usually is no sincere apology. Instead, a BPDer typically blames every misfortune on the loved ones. And, because BPD is a PD, it typically is invisible to the person having it. That is, it is a thought distortion he's had since childhood and the traits usually start showing strongly in the early teens. Moreover, BPD usually is characterized by an inability to trust, a fragile unstable sense of self, and a fear of abandonment and engulfment.

[autumnnight]

One thing that stuck out to me was your long post a few up. He came and said he felt bad about high school, needs to work harder, etc. Then the next thing you said he talked about was the new car. Connect the dots here. He is manipulating you.

 

I am worried about you, though I don't know you. Your son is abusing you, and if it has not gotten physical yet, it will. His father is actually exacerbating the problem IMO by blaming HIS new wife.

 

I am loathe when a stock word for word answer is given almost all the time, but in this case I agree. Your son has a problem, and I do not think it is ODD. Honestly, I would lean toward APD or NPD (not all narcissists are smooth and charming). You don't mention him fearing your abandonment or idolizing you in between these rages he has.

 

One those rare occasions when he seems to be contrite, I would broach the topic of counseling. And honestly, the next time he rages, instead of just calling the police, I would has for a psych hold.

[coryreply]

I really have days that I hate that I wake up.....I pray for a heart attack or an 18-wheeler to take me out on the highway because I just don't want to deal with this crap anymore.

 

I'm concerned about you, friend. Are you seeing a counselor?

[Stealing_Serenity]

I'm concerned about you, friend. Are you seeing a counselor?

 

I should when I feel like that....but honestly, it's the stress talking. Along with this with my son, I am 30 days out from a breakup in a year and half relationship, but that isn't my focus right now. I admit I was distressed when writing that...I was in tears the previous night from the insults and the next morning, processing it all.

 

And no, my son and his behavior had nothing to do with me and my ex-SO falling out, we did that to ourselves.

 

But I do sincerely than you for your concern.

[Stealing_Serenity]

One thing that stuck out to me was your long post a few up. He came and said he felt bad about high school, needs to work harder, etc. Then the next thing you said he talked about was the new car. Connect the dots here. He is manipulating you.

 

I am worried about you, though I don't know you. Your son is abusing you, and if it has not gotten physical yet, it will. His father is actually exacerbating the problem IMO by blaming HIS new wife.

 

I am loathe when a stock word for word answer is given almost all the time, but in this case I agree. Your son has a problem, and I do not think it is ODD. Honestly, I would lean toward APD or NPD (not all narcissists are smooth and charming). You don't mention him fearing your abandonment or idolizing you in between these rages he has.

 

One those rare occasions when he seems to be contrite, I would broach the topic of counseling. And honestly, the next time he rages, instead of just calling the police, I would has for a psych hold.

 

Thanks AN, I'm not sure if my state allows psych holds if they are over 18 TBH.

 

You don't mention him fearing your abandonment or idolizing you in between these rages he has.

 

I've never actually noticed that from him, the fear of abandonment or idolizing me between the rages, but it is interesting that he told me yesterday evening that he had a dream that I drove him to the store near our house. He went into the store and when he came out I was driving off and he had to walk home. Maybe a bit of a guilty conscience was what I was thinking.....

 

My son is actually not a hulking man at his age, but yeah, I've had my worries with physical and I've heard that from my friends and family. He has reared his fist back once and we did scuffle when he was in a bad mood and called me a stupid C**T one night. I feel that is the most disrespectful thing you can call a woman, especially your mom. I got my point across that Mom will not be a battered woman, (his dad got that lesson too at the 5 year mark).

 

I do see the manipulation as well, and that is what just really makes me unravel. He didn't learn this on his own...it was a family dynamic for 15 years that he witnessed. The running joke is when he says "So, Mom...how much do you love me?" and I say "I'm not sure when you start out like that.....". Been fighting that and savvy to it for a while now, his father was a good lesson. I fear the problem is that he is like both of us. :o

[coryreply]

I should when I feel like that....but honestly, it's the stress talking. Along with this with my son, I am 30 days out from a breakup in a year and half relationship, but that isn't my focus right now. I admit I was distressed when writing that...I was in tears the previous night from the insults and the next morning, processing it all.

 

And no, my son and his behavior had nothing to do with me and my ex-SO falling out, we did that to ourselves.

 

But I do sincerely than you for your concern.

 

I can certainly understand. Hang in there. Take care of yourself.

[Tayla]

 

The running joke is when he says "So, Mom...how much do you love me?" and I say "I'm not sure when you start out like that.....". Been fighting that and savvy to it for a while now, his father was a good lesson. I fear the problem is that he is like both of us. :o

 

May I suggest you answer him honestly next time and not jokingly. Say I love you unconditionally. That is the goal of any parent. The Add on as my step parent said was " I may not "like" though the way you behaved. That is what needs modified. Work on it. Then move along.

 

I see though that you are trying to be the mentor to him and get him to be responsible, yet you are sending a double message. Can you take steps to be more consistent that your actions match your words? Tell him flat out and then follow thru with whatever condition is being set. In the working world you don't get paid before you do the job, and he doesn't get privileges until improvements are made....Get it?

[Radu]

Thanks AN, I'm not sure if my state allows psych holds if they are over 18 TBH.

 

 

 

I've never actually noticed that from him, the fear of abandonment or idolizing me between the rages, but it is interesting that he told me yesterday evening that he had a dream that I drove him to the store near our house. He went into the store and when he came out I was driving off and he had to walk home. Maybe a bit of a guilty conscience was what I was thinking.....

Nope ... it's a warning sign for him that you may be approaching your limit and his behaviour will no longer be tolerated ... you will give up on him completely.

 

My son is actually not a hulking man at his age, but yeah, I've had my worries with physical and I've heard that from my friends and family. He has reared his fist back once and we did scuffle when he was in a bad mood and called me a stupid C**T one night. I feel that is the most disrespectful thing you can call a woman, especially your mom. I got my point across that Mom will not be a battered woman, (his dad got that lesson too at the 5 year mark).

 

I do see the manipulation as well, and that is what just really makes me unravel. He didn't learn this on his own...it was a family dynamic for 15 years that he witnessed. The running joke is when he says "So, Mom...how much do you love me?" and I say "I'm not sure when you start out like that.....". Been fighting that and savvy to it for a while now, his father was a good lesson. I fear the problem is that he is like both of us. :o

So he's a great manipulator who thinks his family owes him.

 

Any drugs/petty crime history ?

What about amongst his friends ?

[Stealing_Serenity]

May I suggest you answer him honestly next time and not jokingly. Say I love you unconditionally. That is the goal of any parent. The Add on as my step parent said was " I may not "like" though the way you behaved. That is what needs modified. Work on it. Then move along.

 

I see though that you are trying to be the mentor to him and get him to be responsible, yet you are sending a double message. Can you take steps to be more consistent that your actions match your words? Tell him flat out and then follow thru with whatever condition is being set. In the working world you don't get paid before you do the job, and he doesn't get privileges until improvements are made....Get it?

 

Thank you for your post Tayla....honestly.....I have done that with him and I have a 28 year old daughter who heard those words too (I love them both unconditionally) and is someone who has grown up and figured out her life. She had her bags packed at 18 when she graduated and has been responsible for her...yes, I've helped her here and there..but today she is more successful in life than I am and I'm proud of her.

 

I'm trying to follow through, I really am and sticking to my guns. I had a really bad spell a while back when my parents and I didn't speak for 6 months, because I sold his car. We are on good terms again and my parents get it now...I need their support too, there are just times when I really feel so alone in all of this.

[Stealing_Serenity]

Nope ... it's a warning sign for him that you may be approaching your limit and his behaviour will no longer be tolerated ... you will give up on him completely.

 

So he's a great manipulator who thinks his family owes him.

 

Any drugs/petty crime history ?

What about amongst his friends ?

 

No, none of that, at least I hope. I don't want to paint my son entirely black...he has a good heart, I've seen it..he's not that sort of kid. The Juvie officer who came to the house the last time even told him that. He told him that he has been to homes where he understands why the kids are there...and he is not this kid..but if Mom wants to press charges..he can see how the other half lives.

 

I do think you are right about the warning sign, I think he does know I am reaching my limit..so he plays it down a bit. I hate the guilt part...but that is on me.

 

He is really not a bad kid, he just needs to be inspired..and I'm at my wit's end on how to do that anymore as I'm the only one who has tried.

 

I just want to get him beyond his own mental barriers.....

Edited March 20, 2015 by Stealing_Serenity

[Tayla]

Thank you for your post Tayla....honestly.....I have done that with him and I have a 28 year old daughter who heard those words too (I love them both unconditionally) and is someone who has grown up and figured out her life. She had her bags packed at 18 when she graduated and has been responsible for her...yes, I've helped her here and there..but today she is more successful in life than I am and I'm proud of her.

 

I'm trying to follow through, I really am and sticking to my guns. I had a really bad spell a while back when my parents and I didn't speak for 6 months, because I sold his car. We are on good terms again and my parents get it now...I need their support too, there are just times when I really feel so alone in all of this.

 

You are welcome, and I get that its lonesome sometimes when such dilemas come about. Seems like when the 5hit hits the fan, that is when we are called to answer. Certainly can seem like its a struggle...and it probably is. You are going to have these times and learn each step what works and what doesn't. If you are here, then something must be working. Glad you are making efforts. You are stronger then you give yourself credit for.

[turnera]

When our son gets his mind set on something, he will get what he wants. He will scream, yell, bully and insult you to no end to get what he wants. He doesn't do this to his dad, he only does this to me.

YOU need to be in therapy to learn how to say NO. It's YOUR low self esteem that is causing all this. You need a LOT of sessions to teach you how to do this.

 

In the meantime, do you have a male family member who can come live with you for a year or two, who will become the buffer and TEACH your son to back off?

[turnera]

He has reared his fist back once and we did scuffle when he was in a bad mood and called me a stupid C**T one night.

You should have kicked him out. NO man lives in MY house after calling me that. You need therapy.

[hoping2heal]

Hi SS,

 

Sorry to hear you are going through this. It sounds like the only way to help your son is to stop enabling him. You might not have ever realized you could be enabling his behavior but you are. You said it yourself - he will do whatever it takes to get his way - but he only does this to you. Not his Dad or the other lady...just you. Why? Because it works! He pushes you until you give in. Time to start asserting yourself and say no way jose. You do way too much for him and he is now lazy and takes advantage. If you keep giving into him you are just feeding the monster and enabling him to continue to be lazy and not have to take care of himself.

[Zippity-Doo-Dah]

I haven't read all of the responses, but I've read enough to see myself all throughout your original post. I just want to offer some hope that sometimes things turn around and do turn out well. My son will be 21 next month and sounds just like this. I won't go into all the similarities, just know I've been there. Then one day he found a college he wanted to go to. It was out of state and very expensive. He had a bad track record with school so I didn't even really entertain the idea. But he made up his mind he wanted to go. He called the school to request an information packet and then spent an hour and a half talking to one of the admissions counselors. He fell in love. It took close to six months for me to come on board but he wanted it BAD! A year ago we flew out there, did the school tour, looked at apartments, and a month later he moved almost 800 miles away. He is doing great. He was given a huge scholarship, which made all the difference for us. But here's the thing. Once I started considering it, he and I were working together and no longer on opposite sides of the fence. He and I have always been close, but 16-19 were horrible years. Horrible. He did come out of it and now we are closer than ever - as long as we don't have to live together! I know it may not seem like it, but I just wanted to let you know that things do sometimes change. I was lucky, I know. I never stopped telling him I loved him and wanted the best for him - and he knew it. It took a toll on me, though. Years of difficulties at home and I have suffered some health problems as a result. You must take care of yourself. I've had a counselor, a church family, my own family, real-life friends, online friends - and it helped. Just keep breathing and praying - if that's your thing - and know that at this point, it is really up to your son to decide his future. Maybe he just needed the extra time to grow up and when the right thing happens, it will be the right time.

 

hang in there

 

Zip

Edited March 24, 2015 by Zippity-Doo-Dah