Holding toddler's legs down in bed

[jakrbbt]

My husband and I are recently separated and I have some concerns about overnights, but I don't want to go ballistic litigating and pointing fingers.

 

My husband was physically abused as a child, he says his father used to beat him frequently. He was never physically abusive to me, but was, during our entire (short) marriage, surly and impatient and unable to make a friendly or intimate connection.

 

We have an 18-month-old son. My husband used to insist on putting him to bed most nights, then we started trading nights. When husband would do it, he ALWAYS shut the door and forbade me coming in. When I did it, I'd sit or lie on the bed and encourage toddler to fall asleep, he'd squirm and babble and eventually get to sleep. Then I did the same with him in his crib/toddler bed eventually.

 

One night about a month ago, my husband came into the room while I was putting toddler to sleep, and he "helped" me do it, for once, because I wasn't feeling well.

 

He "spooned" our toddler, grabbed ahold of his little shins in one very large, very strong hand, and held them down hard. Toddler would try to squirm and husband would squeeze harder-- I could see the veins sticking out of his hand. Our son's little chins were crossed in husband's hand. Our son didn't scream or throw a fit-- it was as though he was stressed, but used to it, and holding it in. He made several frustrated but tiny noises and squirmed a few times before lying there with his eyes open. I HATED it.

 

Is it abuse? Will toddler be OK? Would you let your ex, that had done that probably regularly, have the baby overnight alone after the separation if you could help it?

[GemmaUK]

I'm not a parent but I didn't like reading this at all and totally understand how you would have hated seeing this.

 

Does your son naturally squirm and perhaps kick legs when you are waiting for him to go to sleep?

My thought is whether your son did this when Dad was spooning him and whether he doesn't naturally do it.

 

Anyone is going to fight back from restraint. But I am wondering whether your son kicks out at his dad when spooning - due to an instinct. We all have them - even when we are tiny.

 

I really don't like the restraint nor the fact your husband 'forbade' you from entering the room and kept the door shut while he was putting your son to bed.

 

Do you have any child services that you could contact to talk about this?

I would be thinking along the lines of not letting over nights happen but I would want some support behind me to go down that road.

[preraph]

There could be logical reasons for him wanting her not to come in while he's putting the child to sleep, like that he knows you'll only prolong getting the child to sleep by giving him attention. I have never heard of this technique with the legs, but you should google it and see if it's a thing or not.

 

You're used to looking at your child, so I assume you've already done a thorough examination including to see if anything looks damaged or there are any marks or anything. If you can't tell for sure, have a pediatrician exam the child just to be sure.

[jakrbbt]

 

Does your son naturally squirm and perhaps kick legs when you are waiting for him to go to sleep?

My thought is whether your son did this when Dad was spooning him and whether he doesn't naturally do it.

 

He doesn't kick while going to sleep, but he squirms, tosses and turns, and babbles for about an hour while calming down, when I put him to bed. I sit nearby, give him loves like rubbing his back, and tell him to go to sleep, sometimes rocking him in the chair. He's learning how to self-soothe and get to sleep, and it seems like normal behavior, but my husband has no patience for it, is my take.

 

Do you have any child services that you could contact to talk about this?

I would be thinking along the lines of not letting over nights happen but I would want some support behind me to go down that road.

 

Yes, that's a great suggestion. There is a child evaluation center that specializes in 0-3 age, and I'm taking him in. It may take a few weeks, adn in the meantime I'm worried. Thanks for the input, it really helps.

 

SSorry for some reason one of my bold-ed responses are inside the quote box.

[jakrbbt]

There could be logical reasons for him wanting her not to come in while he's putting the child to sleep, like that he knows you'll only prolong getting the child to sleep by giving him attention. I have never heard of this technique with the legs, but you should google it and see if it's a thing or not.

 

You're used to looking at your child, so I assume you've already done a thorough examination including to see if anything looks damaged or there are any marks or anything. If you can't tell for sure, have a pediatrician exam the child just to be sure.

 

He has bruises on his shins, but they're also pretty likely to be from crawling-- he doesn't walk yet. (Another concern-- very late to not be walking yet.)

 

I googled it, and am also a longtime former nanny, was licensed. There's no such technique that I could find, nor would I think there would be. At the very least it's a bad idea. But I'm wanting to know how alarming others find it. I've possibly lost perspective after being in the abusive relationship for so long, so I want to check my perspective against that of others. I can say that I'd never have done that as a nanny, and any nanny who did would have been fired and probably blacklisted.

 

I guess what I'm also looking for is, will my son be OK? Will this damage him long-term, if it's occurring regularly but not happening when he's with me? I have him 4 nights/week for now.

[CC12]

But I'm wanting to know how alarming others find it.

 

I find it pretty alarming. I would think this causes fear, confusion, and stress for your son at bedtime, which should feel like a safe, comfortable place for him.

 

One of the questions you seem to be asking is, "If I'm patient and loving enough with my son, will that cancel out the ****ty time he has with his dad?" Apologies for the weird and dumb analogy I'm about to make, but that's like asking, "If my car gets into an accident, will it be okay if I polish the scrapes and dents really well?" It's nice that you're making an attempt to shine it up, and it helps to an extent, but the damage is still going to be there.

 

Is having a discussion with your ex out of the question? Would he be receptive to your concerns? Would he read a parenting book about how to put a child to sleep?

[Hope Shimmers]

I find it extremely alarming.

 

Reading this post bothered me a great deal.

 

Please do something and don't let this continue. Please - for the sake of your son.

[GemmaUK]

Yes, that's a great suggestion. There is a child evaluation center that specializes in 0-3 age, and I'm taking him in. It may take a few weeks, adn in the meantime I'm worried. Thanks for the input, it really helps.

 

 

Definitely take him and don't delay.

Is there a women's support group nearby also? You sound fearful (understandably I think) of your husband. This is more than just about your son after all isn't it?

As well as that can you go to see a doctor about your boy and his progress?

Do you have any family members who you can talk to in the mean time or anyone who you could support you if you do have a talk with your husband?

 

Anyone that you talk to tell them exactly what you have said here and anything else that might seem odd but insignificant.

Remember that abusers are manipulators and they do all sorts of tiny little things which seem too dumb to tell others about. You need to get it all told, maybe write it all down so you can remember these little things.

 

I'm worried too that he isn't yet walking.

This is going to sound horrible but the bruises he has, check to see if there is any hand pattern to them.

What I mean is whether one bruise one side of his leg could be a thumb print and there could be a finger print the other side of his leg.

I would also be taking photos of any bruises which he gets after being at his dad's.

 

Little ones need patience, sleep time is one of the toughest but your husband is wrong to hold his legs and restrain him. It's wrong, don't spend any more time questioning yourself on that. ((hugs)) x

[Art_Critic]

He is going to build fear in your son and complicate him going to sleep later on as he ages.

 

I had a tough time reading what you wrote and almost felt like I was reading how he snuffed out a life...

 

When my son was younger we adjusted his bed time and wake time so he went to sleep better, we made it 9pm when he started daycare.. he was sleepy and fell asleep in about 20 mins, we also got him up at 6:30am

 

When he was young like yours is we put him to bed at 8pm and woke him up when we got up... 6-8 am.

At 18 months he should be pretty busy during the day so he should be tired near bedtime.

[still_an_Angel]

I fail to see the purpose of tying a toddler down for sleep. He seems to fight back (only natural) but has learned to hold it in as this has been going on for some time. I worry that this might be why he's not walking yet? Also, red flag on why you're not allowed to go to his room after his dad puts him to bed. It's all very concerning, you obviously don't do this to the baby but it's a different way at his father's. Sleeping routines should be the same for both houses for consistency.

 

I don't know how it works in the US, but I would contact child services for starters, this needs to be looked at, it's very unusual.

[jakrbbt]

 

Is having a discussion with your ex out of the question? Would he be receptive to your concerns? Would he read a parenting book about how to put a child to sleep?

 

Absolutely not. My husband was LIVID with me when I gently mentioned it, at the time I saw it happening. He hates what he sees as criticism, and he sees everything as criticism, even "Let's research/ask the doctor about this." I'm afraid he is anti-receptive to pretty much all my concerns and was very offended when early on I bought a couple good parenting books for both of us-- just to have, not as any remedial measure or anything.

[CC12]

Absolutely not. My husband was LIVID with me when I gently mentioned it, at the time I saw it happening. He hates what he sees as criticism, and he sees everything as criticism, even "Let's research/ask the doctor about this." I'm afraid he is anti-receptive to pretty much all my concerns and was very offended when early on I bought a couple good parenting books for both of us-- just to have, not as any remedial measure or anything.

 

That sucks. I don't know how you'll deal with this, but I want to wish you luck.

[Miss Clavel]

i say, get some books about how to put a kid to bed. most of them will say, read, cuddle, smooch, lights out, leave them alone in their bed.

 

you would be hard pressed to find any expert that recommends that anyone get in a bed with a baby/toddler and stay there until they fall asleep.

 

use this to your advantage.

 

your child will be under the covers, alone, SAFE, learning how to fall asleep.

[Shepp]

Would you let your ex, that had done that probably regularly, have the baby overnight alone after the separation if you could help it?

No and better believe I'd find a way to help it!!

 

 

I don't know what's abuse and what isn't but the situation is weird, not just the holding him down, all of it, and your kid is too precious to expose to even the borderline of anything like abuse.

 

 

 

 

My boys are one next week, different as can be ones loud as you like, ones pretty quiet and chilled but they would both kick off if so much as both their legs ended up in the same leg hole of their PJ's for 10 seconds, let alone if someone held their legs down!! Your son being so quiet sends alarm bells ringing for me.

[GemmaUK]

Your son being so quiet sends alarm bells ringing for me.

 

Yes, myself also.

It makes me think there is a bigger picture going on here with the relationship between the little one and his dad (no offence you to Jack - none at all intended - it's clear that dad has hidden some of his RS with your son already so you can fairly safely assume there could well be more to it than just bedtimes.

 

I spotted a thread that he filed for divorce so you have all of that going on too (heck of a lot!) but have you had any chance to speak with a professional yet about your little man?

 

Could your lawyer direct you to somewhere for help and guidance maybe?

 

Thinking of you both ((hugs - safe nice gentle ones)) x

[Taramere]

Although I wouldn't go so far as to use the term "abusive" in this matter, this method of trying to settle a toddler is concerning sounding. It really doesn't suggest much in the way of empathy or understanding of a young child's need to feel safe, cared for..and to be lulled to sleep in a soothing sort of way.

 

If I were involved in an action for contact that involved a request for overnight contact, it's certainly a matter I would be zooming in on. Although it's the sort of thing that instinctively raises your hackles, I think a court would probably want some guidance from an independent professional as to why your husband's method of settling your toddler just isn't good enough.

 

He has bruises on his shins, but they're also pretty likely to be from crawling-- he doesn't walk yet. (Another concern-- very late to not be walking yet.)

 

I would say that if your ex is grabbing your toddler's ankles roughly enough for the veins in his hands to be standing out, then on a balance of probabilities I think it's fair to assume that the bruising on toddler's shins is from that rather than from crawling. Bruising is an injury - and if it's from your ex grabbing toddler's limbs to "settle him" then that's non accidental injury. It's unacceptable for your child's limbs to be grabbed so tightly that marks are left.

 

I think if a professional were assessing this, they would be starting out with a framework of "what are the child's needs? Are they being met and are there any risk factors here?" The fact that your ex grabs toddler's shins and leaves bruising there is a risk factor. Just in itself, it's far from good. The real worry of course is that if this is something your ex does in the context of child care as a matter of course, and without thinking there's anything wrong with it, in front of you - what else might happen?

 

Does he have a proper understanding of the fragility of a small child, or is he likely to adopt an overly rough approach? Might he shake him or perform any of the other actions that can endanger a young child? There seems to be a real lack of instinctive understanding and the instinctive desire to nurture here, and my concern would be whether it's severe enough for your child to be at risk during overnights when your ex is his only carer.

 

You also mention that your toddler still isn't walking. He's 18 months old. Well, that is a bit of a delay really. Certainly by the time he's two you would be expecting him to be walking a bit and even running a little - but your little guy is still crawling. So broadly the main concerns you're presenting here are

 

1) Your ex was abused himself as a child. Which doesn't necessarily mean he'd go on to abuse a child...and in fact, many people who were abused themselves handle it by becoming very conscious of good parenting practice. However,...

 

2) your ex is certainly not demonstrating good parenting by grabbing your toddler's shins as part of settling him down for the night. It's very likely, from the way you describe it, that this is why bruising is appearing on your son's shins. It's a rough method, lacking in emotional warmth....probably feels sore, unsafe and certainly unloving from a small child's perspective.

 

3). Your son is a bit delayed in a specific developmental milestone, and you probably want to watch out for others. For instance, by this stage he should be able to say at least a few words. It's not a disaster if he isn't speaking yet, but again it would be something to be aware of and to discuss with a child care professional.

 

Generally, I would say that you do need to get a child professional more closely involved in your family situation. I don't mean calling in the social workers, but generally in a situation like that I would be asking a person if they had discussed the situation with their health visitor. Possibly a stupid question, but do you have health visitors in the US? Is there a person attached to the medical practice you use who you would tend to discuss child care matters and concerns with?

 

In your situation, I personally would say "I'm not prepared to let you have our son on overnight stays which would result in you being the sole, unsupervised carer - and if it comes to it, I'll be prepared to go to court over this." It just really doesn't sound as though your ex has a good enough understanding of what a small child needs from their carer. The fact that he has sometimes banished you from your son's bedroom when he's "settling him" hints to me that this is a guy who thinks he knows best but who's really fricking clueless.

 

When you add to the equation the fact that he was abused as a child and that your little boy is showing signs of delay in meeting important developmental milestones, I don't think you'd be doing your job as a mother properly if you just went ahead and let your ex have overnight contact on the basis that you don't want to seem difficult or litigious.

[still_an_Angel]

Absolutely not. My husband was LIVID with me when I gently mentioned it, at the time I saw it happening. He hates what he sees as criticism, and he sees everything as criticism, even "Let's research/ask the doctor about this." I'm afraid he is anti-receptive to pretty much all my concerns and was very offended when early on I bought a couple good parenting books for both of us-- just to have, not as any remedial measure or anything.

 

I'm sorry you have so much going on, your plate sounds full. I'm normally a laid-back person and I always try to compromise. I keep coming back to this thread though, there's something not right and as a mum, the instinct to protect leaps to the forefront. I wouldn't back down on this, I understand the situation with regards to the father's temper and mindset but it's a mother's job to protect and nurture. You are not happy with it and the little one cannot speak up. I would risk his anger and pull on my guns to get to the bottom of this. This is your baby who lived inside your body, your instinct can't be wrong.

 

Please consult your family doctor, bring focus on what could be the reasons why his walking is delayed. Maybe get a referral to a specialist, they will get your baby's history and you can divulge the info on what's bothering you and see what they think of it. Like I said, I'm not in the US and procedures are different, but a child specialist can alert child protection services if he thinks there is a cause of concern.

 

All the best.

Angel

[Hope Shimmers]

Absolutely not. My husband was LIVID with me when I gently mentioned it, at the time I saw it happening. He hates what he sees as criticism, and he sees everything as criticism, even "Let's research/ask the doctor about this." I'm afraid he is anti-receptive to pretty much all my concerns and was very offended when early on I bought a couple good parenting books for both of us-- just to have, not as any remedial measure or anything.

 

If I had been in your place I would have not been gentle at all. Not AT ALL. He did not deserve "gentle" and if he is "livid" at what he views as "criticism" then tough crap.

 

It seems to me like you are protecting your husband as you are not willing to stand up to him for your son.

 

This man should not be alone with this child. Ever. No one who has the child's best interest at heart would do such a thing, and I believe this is only the tip of the iceberg. He doesn't let you come in when he puts your son to bed?!?!?! I would have done something about that immediately! What is stopping you from protecting your son from this kind of behavior?

 

Your son isn't walking at 18 months and there is a reason for it. You are seeing the effects of your husband's abuse, in my opinion.

 

I read your other thread so I can see what a nutcase this man really is, in that he thinks he can have 50/50 custody of a child when he has no job or responsibilities. He has NOT proven himself to be a responsible parent. Please stop sticking up for him because your son matters more than whether or not your husband is "offended" by being called out on his abusive parenting behavior or even just your wanting to discuss it! You have every right to do so - you are protecting your son and that is your job!!!

[ja123]

I find it very alarming.

 

 

I'd put some hidden cameras in your ex-husband's home, then use it to sue for 100% custody.

[preraph]

I think you need to at the very least ask a doctor about it and have the baby thoroughly examined and tell the doctor about the leg holding. If there's nothing on the internet about it being a method, it's just him being very controlling, I'm afraid. Him locking you out is bad since you know this isn't a legit way to put a baby to sleep. You probably do need to start reporting it, beginning with the doctor and examination and then maybe the doc can have a chat with him. I believe I'd choose a male pediatrician for that job.

[DaisyLeigh1967]

You might not want to do this. May not be admissible in court. And may be illegal where you live.

[bathtub-row]

This man is weird. Sorry. Why on earth would he hold the kid's legs down like that? And, please don't kid yourself, those bruises are from what he did. Also, closing the door and not letting you in there is a big red flag. He knows that what he's doing - whatever it is - is wrong. It's time for your lioness instincts to kick in and stop being nice and understanding.

Edited November 1, 2014 by bathtub-row

[devilish innocent]

My guess is that your child is in pain when your husband does that, but he's learnt that if he cries your husband will only hurt him worse. It's likely he feels the pain when he tries to stand or take a step which is why he's not walking. If you have to wait to get an evaluation, I'd at least make an emergency appointment with your child's pediatrician to get his shins x-rayed in the meantime. The wounds may be deeper than you realize.

[jakrbbt]

We have an evaluation scheduled with an agency that evaluates very young children for these and other issues. The screening looked very good, no signs of trauma. No more bruises-- but I'm uneasy.

 

The difficulty is that the court looks VERY negatively on a parent who makes unfounded (or fabricated) allegations of abuse. In a "normal" world, if I were just bringing it up with a reasonable spouse or a friend, then being concerned early is one thing. But in a divorce world, bringing my concern to the attention of the court is a whole other thing, and could easily cost me custody and visitation time. So I have to be sure that any concerns are well-founded and possible to show, not just my word, if possible.

 

And I hope that any weird bedtime stuff with my husband has stopped now that he's wanting to step up and be a half-time parent. For those that haven't read my other threads. he filed and is fighting for sole custody-- even though I've been 80 to 95% parent before now. It's because he wants me to support him and also maybe because he's afraid of losing his relationship with our son.

 

I have to just make sure I'm disclosing everything I know, accurately, to the evaluators, and hope that they can detect whether there's anything wrong still going on. My gut instinct is that my child is doing well now, but that my husband isn't very equipped to have him very much of the time long-term.

[stillmind]

This is just... frightening and strange. I would be very worried. I don't know why this would be necessary at all. I have an 18 m.o. daughter, I think she would be terrified if someone pinned her down until she stopped struggling. I just read her a story, put her in bed and leave. She goes to sleep on her own. WTF is he thinking?