Women who don't want children

[evanescentworld]

I came across this article, and would be interested to hear opinions, particularly from women.... for obvious reasons...

 

I have every sympathy with the author, by the way.

[newmoon]

I came across this article, and would be interested to hear opinions, particularly from women.... for obvious reasons...

 

I have every sympathy with the author, by the way.

 

what, exactly, are you wanting to hear from others? her story sums it up, doesn't it?

[preraph]

I agree with her. You either want kids or you don't. Sure, you can be young and just not even ready to have kids and then decide you do later. But I ran a childfree board for some years and the majority knew they didn't pretty much all along. And yes, they have a very hard time getting tubals. Because men still think they should have the final say over what women do and they want women to procreate. I can't think of any other reason to refuse an adult that decision. Many won't do that or vascectomies until someone has had kids. How nuts is that? The whole point is to not have kids by accident when you don't want them for whatever reason, personal or financial.

 

If you google "childfree" you'll find lots of online boards where you can get support and vent. Latest stats show that the biggest percentage of women deciding not to have children are those with the most education. It is a growing percentage overall. Never mind the people who scream "Who will pay for your Social Security." If we got even half the mothers/children off social welfare by cutting the number of births to those who can't afford them, that would make up that deficit. Not to mention the amount of Medicaid used for childbirth and kids.

 

I think anyone who wants kids and can afford them should definitely have them. I think anyone who tries to pressure someone who does not want kids to have kids is thinking about themselves and not about the child, because who would put a child in a home they're not really wanted or able to provide for them? And yet it happens every day with bad advice like "You'll find a way," "You'll love them once you have them." An unhappy parent is a bad parent.

[thefooloftheyear]

I agree with her. You either want kids or you don't. Sure, you can be young and just not even ready to have kids and then decide you do later. But I ran a childfree board for some years and the majority knew they didn't pretty much all along. And yes, they have a very hard time getting tubals. Because men still think they should have the final say over what women do and they want women to procreate. I can't think of any other reason to refuse an adult that decision. Many won't do that or vascectomies until someone has had kids. How nuts is that? The whole point is to not have kids by accident when you don't want them for whatever reason, personal or financial.

 

If you google "childfree" you'll find lots of online boards where you can get support and vent. Latest stats show that the biggest percentage of women deciding not to have children are those with the most education. It is a growing percentage overall. Never mind the people who scream "Who will pay for your Social Security." If we got even half the mothers/children off social welfare by cutting the number of births to those who can't afford them, that would make up that deficit. Not to mention the amount of Medicaid used for childbirth and kids.

 

I think anyone who wants kids and can afford them should definitely have them. I think anyone who tries to pressure someone who does not want kids to have kids is thinking about themselves and not about the child, because who would put a child in a home they're not really wanted or able to provide for them? And yet it happens every day with bad advice like "You'll find a way," "You'll love them once you have them." An unhappy parent is a bad parent.

 

How in the world are you gonna get people off the welfare rolls if only the educated ones(more likely to not need social programs) are opting out of having kids?..Makes no sense...

 

I will agree...Parenthood is great and its the best thing that happened to me, but its certainly not for everyone...

 

TFY

[MsSmurf]

How interesting to read an article about a woman who sounds so much like myself. I'm about her age and like her I've known since I was very young that I was not like all the other girls. I too insisted my Barbie's be career women and always wanted to be the working woman in most childhood roleplays. I completely understand why people brushed off my saying "I don't ever want to have kids" when I was just 5 or 10 or 13 or even 17, but by the time I was 20 it was flat out insulting.

 

It wasn't about needing the right man, needing to grow up, or not being feminine. I simply knew deep down that I didn't long to have children. I was also in my early 20s when I started to ask my doctor about sterilization options. She shut me down quickly saying I was too young to make such a big decision and I'd feel differently when I found the right guy. Yep pretty insulting, but I didn't bring it up again. I just take my birth control religiously, use condoms, and plan to have an abortion if all of that isn't enough.

 

It wasn't until I was 30 that I got a doctor that was willing to talk openly about sterilization. In fact she was happy I brought it up and gave me loads of information including a list of doctors (all male surprisingly) that will perform the procedure without judgment. Together we decided that a tubal isn't the right choice for me, but a partial hysterectomy (meaning they'd leave my ovaries) was better. Unfortunately because it'd be elective insurance won't cover it and it is not in my budget at this time, so I haven't done it as of yet. I still see this same doctor and we revisit this matter every year to see if there are any insurance changes or additional options I can consider.

 

Like the author of the article I find men and women to be equally judgmental. Dating is difficult because this isn't something you just drop on someone in the beginning, nor is it something you want to purposely hide. I should also clarify that while I have no desire to have my own children I am not opposed to children in general. I have a large extended family bursting with children and have dated men with children. I simply will not be producing any of my own. Not once have I ever wavered on that decision, but that doesn't stop the rude comments from others.

 

I especially hate the comments about my needing to have children because other women can't. While their situation is unfortunate, it isn't my problem and I don't need to do something I don't want to for their sake. I also hate the assumption that if a guy gets into a relationship with me then I'm forcing him to give up being a dad. I have never ever told a guy he has to give up being a dad if it is important to him. I just make it clear he'll have to have that experience with someone else. When I date a guy with kids I'm always happy he's had that experience, but if he wants more kids I tell him he needs to find someone else. I've even found that guys who say they don't want children still react negatively when I mention I feel equally. They too are quick to point out that I'm "unnatural" and not "feminine" and don't think they're being sexist.

 

I suppose what bugs me the most about being childfree is that others think its perfectly ok to demand that I explain myself and my choice, but rarely are women who want to be mothers asked to explain themselves and that choice. Like the author said, we're all still women and we should be able to choose whatever option is best for us without judgment.

[pink_sugar]

I've been on the fence about kids. I'd like to have kids later on in my 30's, when I'm more established, but I've never been obsessed with having kids like a lot of other women. If for some reason having kids is not meant to be, I can live with that too.

[Blade96]

I'm CF and am still not accepted by some. Family would ask me what would happen if I got pregnant. I tell them abortion and they don't believe me. They never believed me when I told them I had no desire to go very close to my niece when she was a baby or a toddler (because I really can't stand that age) I was supposed to suddenly turn into some kind of cooing babbling baby lover and "normal" like everybody else just cause it was my brother's baby. Not. Gonna. Happen. I.Am. Not. A. Baby. Person. And although my brother who is 5 years older and knew me all his life, knew all his life how I felt about babies, the mi nute I moved away from then 11 month old, He flipped out, called me a "threat to his daughter" left the house, and disowned me. That was 4 years ago. He and his gf (kid's mom) have both disowned me. Never saw or heard from them in 4 years.

 

That's what many CF people go through. I was disowned by my own sibling and his gf.

 

and yeah I'm a woman.

[thefooloftheyear]

How interesting to read an article about a woman who sounds so much like myself. I'm about her age and like her I've known since I was very young that I was not like all the other girls. I too insisted my Barbie's be career women and always wanted to be the working woman in most childhood roleplays. I completely understand why people brushed off my saying "I don't ever want to have kids" when I was just 5 or 10 or 13 or even 17, but by the time I was 20 it was flat out insulting.

 

It wasn't about needing the right man, needing to grow up, or not being feminine. I simply knew deep down that I didn't long to have children. I was also in my early 20s when I started to ask my doctor about sterilization options. She shut me down quickly saying I was too young to make such a big decision and I'd feel differently when I found the right guy. Yep pretty insulting, but I didn't bring it up again. I just take my birth control religiously, use condoms, and plan to have an abortion if all of that isn't enough.

 

It wasn't until I was 30 that I got a doctor that was willing to talk openly about sterilization. In fact she was happy I brought it up and gave me loads of information including a list of doctors (all male surprisingly) that will perform the procedure without judgment. Together we decided that a tubal isn't the right choice for me, but a partial hysterectomy (meaning they'd leave my ovaries) was better. Unfortunately because it'd be elective insurance won't cover it and it is not in my budget at this time, so I haven't done it as of yet. I still see this same doctor and we revisit this matter every year to see if there are any insurance changes or additional options I can consider.

 

Like the author of the article I find men and women to be equally judgmental. Dating is difficult because this isn't something you just drop on someone in the beginning, nor is it something you want to purposely hide. I should also clarify that while I have no desire to have my own children I am not opposed to children in general. I have a large extended family bursting with children and have dated men with children. I simply will not be producing any of my own. Not once have I ever wavered on that decision, but that doesn't stop the rude comments from others.

 

I especially hate the comments about my needing to have children because other women can't. While their situation is unfortunate, it isn't my problem and I don't need to do something I don't want to for their sake. I also hate the assumption that if a guy gets into a relationship with me then I'm forcing him to give up being a dad. I have never ever told a guy he has to give up being a dad if it is important to him. I just make it clear he'll have to have that experience with someone else. When I date a guy with kids I'm always happy he's had that experience, but if he wants more kids I tell him he needs to find someone else. I've even found that guys who say they don't want children still react negatively when I mention I feel equally. They too are quick to point out that I'm "unnatural" and not "feminine" and don't think they're being sexist.

 

I suppose what bugs me the most about being childfree is that others think its perfectly ok to demand that I explain myself and my choice, but rarely are women who want to be mothers asked to explain themselves and that choice. Like the author said, we're all still women and we should be able to choose whatever option is best for us without judgment.

 

Certainly you and any other woman has the right to not want to have kids, but I think its absolutely essential that you put that on the table very early on and be clear about it so the guy knows where you stand and the can exercise his choice like you did if he thinks this is something thats vital to him, I would thnk that its just about courtesy...

 

TFY

[preraph]

How in the world are you gonna get people off the welfare rolls if only the educated ones(more likely to not need social programs) are opting out of having kids?..Makes no sense...

 

I will agree...Parenthood is great and its the best thing that happened to me, but its certainly not for everyone...

 

TFY

 

It's not ONLY the educated ones. There are people from all walks of life choosing to not have kids, but they've found a growing trend in that sector. But I agree on your point. It's often the ones you aren't old enough to have any idea the responsibility they're taking on who end up having everyone else pay for it so their children don't suffer. I think any mother would agree it's nearly impossible to really know how big a deal it is until you do it. There are exceptions, of course, like I have a friend who ended up being the parent of her siblings when she should have been having a childhood because she had bad parents. So she knew how all-encompassing it was. Plus there are people handing out "have one anyway" advice just because they want their siblings or friends in the same boat they're in and lots of pressure to have kids and some people are very vulnerable to that pressure.

 

That said, for many the all-encompassing role of raising children is their dream and what they feel most rewarded for doing.

[preraph]

Certainly you and any other woman has the right to not want to have kids, but I think its absolutely essential that you put that on the table very early on and be clear about it so the guy knows where you stand and the can exercise his choice like you did if he thinks this is something thats vital to him, I would thnk that its just about courtesy...

 

TFY

 

I agree and the same with men, but what I learned from years on that childfree board is that everyone made it known, but most were ignored and it was assumed they'd change their mind or could be influenced to change their mind. It's important to have a thorough conversation about it before getting too far into the relationship. What happens is they tell the man, and he may truly not care one way or the other, but before long, his mother is asking when they're going to have kids and he's saying they're not and she's saying, Oh, she'll change her mind. Everyone has kids. And then the pressure is on.

[preraph]

I've been on the fence about kids. I'd like to have kids later on in my 30's, when I'm more established, but I've never been obsessed with having kids like a lot of other women. If for some reason having kids is not meant to be, I can live with that too.

 

I always assumed when I was young that I'd probably get the urge later on, too, but I never did. And the more I learned about how much you give up, honestly, after a point, I just never gave it a thought. I just felt I had better things to do and didn't really slow down until I was about 40. Plus I've always been an animal person, not a kid person.

 

But yes, waiting until you are established and can more comfortably care for a child is definitely the smart way to go about it.

[evanescentworld]

what, exactly, are you wanting to hear from others? her story sums it up, doesn't it?

I don't necessarily "want" to hear anything specific from others, apart from their own comments on the article. In fact, see responses after yours....

 

When I was talking about children with an acquaintance, I stated that I had no intention or desire to have children.

This was the response I got:

 

"Why not? Are you a lesbian? Lesbians can still have kids you know...."

 

Even the friend with me, who has children, had the good grace to stare at this woman with a "WTF??" look...

[Taramere]

I don't necessarily "want" to hear anything specific from others, apart from their own comments on the article. In fact, see responses after yours....

 

Well, I don't tend to get many judgements to my face - but no doubt people who are interested enough to make any comment probably say the usual things that are said about childless women behind my back.

 

I was never dead set against kids in the way the woman in the article seems to be. However, the guy I dated at the time of life I'd have been most likely to settle down and have them wasn't a fan of children. Also, in my twenties I worked in kids' homes and I must admit that spending several years trying to manage and support groups of out of control teens whose own parents have given up on them doesn't really motivate you to have your own kids. Even though I did find it very fulfilling work at the time.

 

I would think of long term fostering if I were in a position (ie plenty of money, suitable accommodation and lots of free time on my hands) On the other hand, running an animal sanctuary might be less work.

[MsSmurf]

Certainly you and any other woman has the right to not want to have kids, but I think its absolutely essential that you put that on the table very early on and be clear about it so the guy knows where you stand and the can exercise his choice like you did if he thinks this is something thats vital to him, I would thnk that its just about courtesy...

 

TFY

 

I agree and the same with men, but what I learned from years on that childfree board is that everyone made it known, but most were ignored and it was assumed they'd change their mind or could be influenced to change their mind. It's important to have a thorough conversation about it before getting too far into the relationship. What happens is they tell the man, and he may truly not care one way or the other, but before long, his mother is asking when they're going to have kids and he's saying they're not and she's saying, Oh, she'll change her mind. Everyone has kids. And then the pressure is on.

 

Yes this is a discussion that needs to be had at some point in a relationship. I say some point because there is no "perfect" time and every relationship develops at its own pace. If still in the casual dating stages and I don't think there's a future then I see no reason to bring it up because I'm ending things anyway. But if we've gotten to the point of talking about the future then yes this is a relevant subject.

 

However, every time I have gotten to the point of needing to discuss this I'm brushed off. "Oh you don't mean that," "Well now you're with me and I'll be a great dad, I'm not the aholes you dated before," "You'll change your mind," "How could you say such a horrible thing!" "Oh you just don't get how great it will be, we'll babysit my nephew and you'll see!" "There's no way I could tell my mother you said that, she'd be horrified!"...... and on and on. So while I agree that it is the right thing to do to inform a guy I think has serious potential of my decision I think I should be given the courtesy of being taken seriously and have my choice respected. Unfortunately I have yet to have that happen.

[MsSmurf]

I don't necessarily "want" to hear anything specific from others, apart from their own comments on the article. In fact, see responses after yours....

 

When I was talking about children with an acquaintance, I stated that I had no intention or desire to have children.

This was the response I got:

 

"Why not? Are you a lesbian? Lesbians can still have kids you know...."

 

Even the friend with me, who has children, had the good grace to stare at this woman with a "WTF??" look...

 

OMFG I can only imagine what smarty pants remark would fly out of my mouth if someone said that to me. That is outrageous!

[thefooloftheyear]

Yes this is a discussion that needs to be had at some point in a relationship. I say some point because there is no "perfect" time and every relationship develops at its own pace. If still in the casual dating stages and I don't think there's a future then I see no reason to bring it up because I'm ending things anyway. But if we've gotten to the point of talking about the future then yes this is a relevant subject.

 

However, every time I have gotten to the point of needing to discuss this I'm brushed off. "Oh you don't mean that," "Well now you're with me and I'll be a great dad, I'm not the aholes you dated before," "You'll change your mind," "How could you say such a horrible thing!" "Oh you just don't get how great it will be, we'll babysit my nephew and you'll see!" "There's no way I could tell my mother you said that, she'd be horrified!"...... and on and on. So while I agree that it is the right thing to do to inform a guy I think has serious potential of my decision I think I should be given the courtesy of being taken seriously and have my choice respected. Unfortunately I have yet to have that happen.

 

 

Want to know why I think its so important?

 

My own cousin was dating this woman...He made it clear he wanted a family-numerous times.....After almost three years, he left her literally at the altar when she finally broke the news to him that she wasnt going to(didnt want?) have kids..

 

She nearly committed suicide over it and from what I heard she was so traumatized by the breakup that she needed to be committed to a mental hospital..

 

He felt horrible, but there was just no way he would be able to put that aside..he felt that even if she then changed her mind, that it wasnt something she wanted, just did it to appease him and therefore wouldnt be a good mother..

 

Its vital...get that on the table ASAP....either gender..

 

TFY

[Dontfindme]

Want to know why I think its so important?

 

My own cousin was dating this woman...He made it clear he wanted a family-numerous times.....After almost three years, he left her literally at the altar when she finally broke the news to him that she wasnt going to(didnt want?) have kids..

 

She nearly committed suicide over it and from what I heard she was so traumatized by the breakup that she needed to be committed to a mental hospital..

 

He felt horrible, but there was just no way he would be able to put that aside..he felt that even if she then changed her mind, that it wasnt something she wanted, just did it to appease him and therefore wouldnt be a good mother..

 

Its vital...get that on the table ASAP....either gender..

 

TFY

 

I agree, this information should be communicated early on.

 

This is one of the reasons my relationship ended 2 months back. While we were just friends, I let my ex know that I didn't want kids, and didn't see them in my future. He was okay with this. He apparently didn't want them (at the time). So we pursued the relationship, and I invested in him.

Once we got together, and he knew he 'had' me, he decided to change his mind. Kids became a huge thing to him, and he wanted them soon. He apparently thought he could change my mind. I was willing to compromise for us, and I went so far as to say that I don't know how I'd feel in the future. But that wasn't sufficient for him anymore. So he broke up with me. Had he communicated his desire to be a father, to me earlier, I would never have invested in him, and we would still be friends.

[MsSmurf]

Want to know why I think its so important?

 

My own cousin was dating this woman...He made it clear he wanted a family-numerous times.....After almost three years, he left her literally at the altar when she finally broke the news to him that she wasnt going to(didnt want?) have kids..

 

She nearly committed suicide over it and from what I heard she was so traumatized by the breakup that she needed to be committed to a mental hospital..

 

He felt horrible, but there was just no way he would be able to put that aside..he felt that even if she then changed her mind, that it wasnt something she wanted, just did it to appease him and therefore wouldnt be a good mother..

 

Its vital...get that on the table ASAP....either gender..

 

TFY

 

I seriously had to reread this post a couple of times to make sure I was seeing correctly...... 3 years?!?! While I think that topics like this need to be addressed at the right time I am absolutely certain the right time presents itself well before the 3 year mark! Clearly that woman had a number of other issues going on and it is unfortunate that she deteriorated so much after the painful, but yet completely understandable, breakup.

 

It might have been different if neither ever expressed any feelings about kids one way or the other and just *assumed* they were both on the same page....only to make it to the altar and realize they weren't. That's likely an extremely rare circumstance though. What this woman did was deceptive and manipulative in my opinion. Hopefully your cousin recovered and has either met or is on his way to meeting the right woman for him.

[thefooloftheyear]

I seriously had to reread this post a couple of times to make sure I was seeing correctly...... 3 years?!?! While I think that topics like this need to be addressed at the right time I am absolutely certain the right time presents itself well before the 3 year mark! Clearly that woman had a number of other issues going on and it is unfortunate that she deteriorated so much after the painful, but yet completely understandable, breakup.

 

It might have been different if neither ever expressed any feelings about kids one way or the other and just *assumed* they were both on the same page....only to make it to the altar and realize they weren't. That's likely an extremely rare circumstance though. What this woman did was deceptive and manipulative in my opinion. Hopefully your cousin recovered and has either met or is on his way to meeting the right woman for him.

 

Yep....5 kids...

 

I dont think its that rare....and frankly, it probably is more than likely that the guy is the one that would be pulling that deception..

 

Sure, they discussed it.Many times..She knew they werent going to have kids before marriage so she just gave him the "yeah, sure...itll be great" type of response...It wasnt until she had a gun to her head, so to speak, that she broke the real news...I dont think she was prepared for what he did....he just dropped her cold...instantly ...just weeks before the wedding..she was crushed..

 

You need to be honest and up front..its vital..

 

TFY

[Sarabi]

I've been on the fence about kids. I'd like to have kids later on in my 30's, when I'm more established, but I've never been obsessed with having kids like a lot of other women. If for some reason having kids is not meant to be, I can live with that too.

 

I personally agree with the bolded 1010%

[Sarabi]

Out of interest...what kind of "having children" are you on about? Any way possible...? Because I think that for the majority, the idea of having children really just means being pregnant...(i.e. not adopting or fostering unless situations arise and they have to consider other options for having a family)

 

I don't believe you need to be pregnant to be a parent or have children...

Just my thoughts...

[chimpanA-2-chimpanZ]

I would like to adopt a child if and only if I were in the right personal and financial circumstances for it. Children are too important to have "just because".