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our education system has screwed up priorities!


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I know this is highly debatable but here's what I've been thinking, looking back at my education (and I mean public school education, going to a university or college is different because the purpose is to be trained for a career, in most cases).

 

So I look back at what I've been taught - math, languages, sciences, etc. A pile of knowledge a lot of which I'll never use, and what did they leave out? Basic necessary knowledge such as how to properly take care of one's body (fitness & nutrition), how to manage one's time, how to enjoy life & not let the world control your happiness - all these things are so much more important than some silly derivatives! I know some of these things are available in elective courses, but my point is - these should be mandatory, not calculus, which 9/10 students will never use again.

 

One thing that annoys me in the existing system is the sex-ed class. Trying to scare kids with STDs and pulling condoms over cucumbers just doesn't cut it! Why don't they have human discussions of the positive sides of sex as well as the dangers of it?

 

And even math class - why make it so terribly boring. Problem solving is a great skill - and it can be developed in the shape of games. Laabels like "derivative" and all that make no difference to the process of thinking that should be developed in the class. And instead, most students simply memorize how to solve a few types of problems, and forget it right after the final.

 

I'm not saying that math & sciences & etc should be left out. I'm only saying they're overemphacized, at the expense of leaving out other valuable things.

 

I could go on and on. I may be biased because half of my schooling was done in another country, but as far as I can see, education systems all over the world focus on largely useless knowledge and lacks basic life-skills necessary for every human. Some people are lucky and their parents fill the gap... but how many aren't so lucky?

 

-yes

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although i think your points are valid,. i cannot agree. i think all of the subject are extremely important because its how life is. if you want to go to college and get a great job, you need these subjects. im sorry they were boring for you but i beleive that its the teachers job to stimulate you with these subjects and it will interest you so much that you want to learn it.

there are so many other things that are messed up about our education system- the testing we have to endure starting with third grade....how teachers dont have much say in what goes on in the schools- they basically have to shut up and do their jobs.

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these subjects weren't boring for me at all - i enjoyed all of them, with minor exceptions. but i wish i was taught more about basic living skills and less about electromagnetism and derivatives.

 

In order to get a good job/career, people go to college, where they learn information and skills relevant to their field. All they need as a base for that is a brain that can analyse, solve problems, be creative, etc. So I think schools can develop kids well without overflowing them with information.

 

I agree with you that the testing system is screwed up. There's way too much focus on marks, and while immediate rewards are important, way too many kids study just because they want the good grade and couldn't care less about what they're leaning. That's how they learn to cram the night before - it all goes right out two days later, but they get a good grade - and what's the use of that? Short-term memory training? Hurray :rolleyes:

 

-yes

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Well, why don't we just ship our babies off to public school right from the hospital, let the teachers nurse them, bottle feed them, change their diapers, and take them right on into adulthood? Let's take parents out of the equation entirely. Let's relieve parents of teaching children proper hygiene, to exercise, to eat properly. Hell, the parents went through all the trouble to have intercourse to bring them into the world...why should be expect them to take it any further? I'm with you. Parents shouldn't have any responsiblities whatsoever to their children because we pay our taxes and public schools ought to do it all.

 

Schools should all have living quarters so the kids can sleep there at night and exchange stories. They can also do their sex education homework in vivo...I mean how better to learn a trade than to actually practice it? Better right there in the halls of learning than in the alley behind their house!

 

The schools ought to sort out all the attendees so kids with the same identical learning abilities are in one class with each other therefore teachers don't have to teach at a level for people of many backgrounds and levels to try to understand all at once, like they have to now. The nerve of educators to feel that parents ought to have some input into what their children learn about sex. That really pisses me off. SEX education belongs in the schools. Any parent who sits a child down and gives them information about sex ought to be shot. That's CLEARLY the job for young people to learn in a class of 35 with a teacher who can take questions enmass. And why not a cucumber? You can eat them when the class is over!!! Kids who talk about sex in the schoolyard or come to this forum to see if their dicks are long enough should be separated into classes for the gifted.

 

Children should be released to go home from school once a week to teach their parents what they have learned. We need to free up parents from doing mundane things like teaching their children morals, honesty, trust, loyalty, how to handle money, how to eat in public with class, manners, etc. This is clearly something teachers ought to do and I'm just as pissed as you that they aren't doing enough for the children of our society. The nerve of government to expect parents to take the time our of their busy schedules to deal with child rearing!!!

 

I'm glad you brought this up because I am just as pissed as you are. The schools simply aren't doing enough for our kids. Of course the schools' priorities are screwed up. They actually feel they were set up to teach academics. That's nuts. Everybody knows they're meant for a parental role. Parents are paying big bucks in taxes for them to do that. Academics should be secondary...that's why they call them secondary schools. Raising kids with kindness, decency, proper fitness and eating habits, teaching them to screw correctly without getting pregnant, should always be the absolute priority of our schools. How else can parents live a decent life?

 

God Bless America!

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Parents are SUPPOSED to be a big part of the equation, but look around - they're usually not! Largely, because they don't know these basic things themselves, or don't care to teach their kids. You can't control the parents though, can you?

 

Now, certainly some things are to learned on one's own, but i still that the education system puts emphasis in the wrong spot. And since we go to school every day for many many years, that emphasis gets impinted into ours minds.

 

-yes

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Actually the purpose of structured public education is to instruct and inform in domains that the larger society feels is essential in order to fully participate in the economic and civic life of that society.

 

You live in Canada yes, but I think the education system there largely followed the same course that the American one has followed. Universal primary education was mandated so that all citizens would be able to participate responsibly in a democracy. Illiterate people (especially before radio and television) aren't likely to be well-informed about issues, parties and candidates -- on a local, state or national level. It's in the best interests of the society to educate its population when there is universal voting -- otherwise the illiterate portions will likely vote for a demagogue (although obviously that can and does happen even when most voters CAN read... ahem ... Bush .. ahem).

 

As Western societies went through late industrial phases into post-industrial economies, businesses have had an increasing need for highly skilled labor: people who know math and science principles very well -- engineers, programmers; and people with excellent verbal and analytical skills. Globalization means that language skills are in high demand.

 

The stuff you do in high school is supposed to lay the foundation for working, even if you go on to college before entering the workforce. A few generations ago many people didn't go through high school: they didn't need to. That is simply not the case now. A person without a high school diploma would have a very hard time finding even minimum-wage work. High school curricula are informed by what business leaders report is needed in their workers.

 

The U.S. currently imports highly skilled technical labor, because we don't have enough home-grown. This suggests that, contrary to your perception, schools aren't placing ENOUGH emphasis on science and math skills. I think one big problem is that students don't understand why they're being taught those subjects -- as you indicated. I remember taking French in high school. I took it for four years and the prevailing attitude was that "chances are you're never going to use French but here you go, conjugate some verbs. Maybe someday you'll take a trip to Paris and won't it be nice to know that 'de rien' means 'you're welcome.'" Of course I went to a public high school in a rural, economically depressed area, so that attitude was somewhat grounded in reality -- most of the students weren't heading for careers in international development.

 

As for learning to enjoy life and ask questions and find larger meaning -- I would say that THAT is the duty of parents. Schools have a limited mission -- they are not supposed to provide all the things one needs to know to get through life. Parents' duties to their children's education don't stop at providing lunch money and rides to school.

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... and really yes, do you think that big philosophical questions like the meaning of life and how to enjoy it can be taught with a textbook in a classroom?

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I've been searching for the meaning of life for years. I definitely think schools are the place to learn that stuff. To think that the educational system would expect me to lift a finger to delve into such matters for myself gets me even more angry. In addition to raising our children, I think schools ought to fix our cars, find us jobs when we're out of work, and cook out breakfast too!!! Hell, the schools ought to be able to do just about everything for us.

 

midori, I love your posts when you're in school. Your writing brings back such dear memories for me...when I was in college, cramming for exams, and writing papers so eloquently that their grades offset my D's on the exams.

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yes WRITES: "Parents are SUPPOSED to be a big part of the equation, but look around - they're usually not! Largely, because they don't know these basic things themselves, or don't care to teach their kids."

 

Well, why do they accept the role of a parent if they're obviously unprepared? I wouldn't take a job as an airline pilot if I had to buy my own plane. If people don't know how to raise children properly, then they are obviously not fully understanding the depth and seriousness of bringing a life into this world. It is basic and heinous ignorance for any adult to expect that a school is the right place to mass socialize and teach a child the basics of character and daily life. I think people who have children expecting that ought to receive the death penalty...or, even worse, be sent back to school.

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Originally posted by Tony

 

I wouldn't take a job as an airline pilot if I had to buy my own plane.

 

but otherwise no problem, training is optional. I think it's one of those things you can do just by feeling your way through it, right? Use the force, Tony! And certainly no need for knowledge of math or physics. I think you just push a button and go, right?

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replying to your (Tony and Midori) words in random order:

 

Yes, i think philosophical qns like meaning of life should be brought up in classrooms. There's no need to teach kids THE meaning of life, but simply show them various ways of looking at it -

learning how to think about things is much more useful than memorizing theoretical information.

 

to Tony: OK, all these people shouldn't be parents. What can we do about it, except not become parents until we're ready ourselves? If the current society has so many inapt (sp?) parents, shouldn't something maybe be done about it? Perhaps they should pass an exam before being allowed to get off birth control (assuming they were on it to start with...)?

 

You're all concentrating on my mentioning learning to enjoy life. What about other basic skills like nutrition and fitness? These should be taught even before highschool. But all gym teachers do is - here, play some volleyball.

 

As for science/math skills needed for work - I never said these subjects shouldn't be taught. But the way they're being taught, it comes into one ear, stays there for the test, and goes right out the other ear. Useless, just like Midori's fun with conjugating verbs. It's much more important to teach kids WHY this subject is important, HOW to think about these problems, and not make them memorize a bunch of chemical equations just because.

 

I guess I wish schools developed the brains instead of memories - the emphasis should be on the thinking/analyzing/creating process, not on useless memorization.

 

Another reason I believe nutrition/fitness/life_tips would be good is that it's more obvious why these are useful. Teens all want clear skin & fit bodies - they'll want to learn. Everybody wants to enjoy like - they'll want to learn. No teens care about chemical equations - and they don't remember them!

 

I did years of chem, and don't remember a single beep of it. I also did years of French, and saw a purpose to it (reading in French, travelling and possibly living in a French-spreaking place, etc) - and it's right there in my head.

 

-yes

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I think German education is pretty good (just remembered from German class) - after 8 years or so of mandatory basic schooling, the kids get to choose if they're going to a college-type highschool that'll teach them skills necessary for jobs or going to a highschool that prepares them for further education or - i think there was one or two more options.

 

-yes

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Midori said:

The U.S. currently imports highly skilled technical labor, because we don't have enough home-grown. This suggests that, contrary to your perception, schools aren't placing ENOUGH emphasis on science and math skills.

 

 

OK, i think the disagreement is in where science and math should be taught. I'm all for producing skilled workers - but not everybody needs as much physics/math as a pilot does! That's what colleges are for, and this is why I like the German system I mentioned above.

 

-yes

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What about other basic skills like nutrition and fitness? These should be taught even before highschool. But all gym teachers do is - here, play some volleyball.

 

I think nutrition and fitness is clearly an area where parents should be responsible.

 

As for science/math skills needed for work - I never said these subjects shouldn't be taught. But the way they're being taught, it comes into one ear, stays there for the test, and goes right out the other ear.

 

At least some schools in the U.S. are attempting different ways of teaching science/math. The problem with teaching these subjects, particularly math, is that it is what it is. In an English class you can have big discussions about the symbolism behind the rose in Chapter 2 or the theme of the book or the writing style. In math (and science to a slighly lesser extent)...not so much. You learn a formula and are off to the races.

 

Now, I feel that if something goes in one ear and out the other for you (or anyone else), then that is your/their fault, not the teacher's fault. Some responsibility has to go to the students to make an effort to learn what they are doing. Teachers can only do so much in 50 minues with a class of thirty or forty students. I'm sure if you or anyone else stopped by your teacher's desk after school to discuss math/science issues, the teacher would be more than happy to spend some time. But how many students really do that? How many students really care?

 

I guess I wish schools developed the brains instead of memories - the emphasis should be on the thinking/analyzing/creating process, not on useless memorization.

 

Again, the school does not develop the brain. The student does. The school provides a framework and environment for the student to learn, but in case you haven't noticed, many students choose not to learn. They just don't care. I don't see that as being the school's fault.

 

No teens care about chemical equations - and they don't remember them!

 

I care about chemical equations! :bunny: To be honest, if I would've been forced to take a class about how to eat right and have clear skin, I would have been highly pissed off. That information is all over the place--tons of books have been written, tons of magazine articles, etc. I would've much rather had the Chemistry class. But that's just me...

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yes WROTE: "Basic necessary knowledge such as how to properly take care of one's body (fitness & nutrition), how to manage one's time, how to enjoy life & not let the world control your happiness - all these things are so much more important than some silly derivatives!"

 

Parents who wait until their children learn that stuff in public schools ought to have their children taken by social services and placed in decent foster homes with people who are capable of parenting.

 

This wasn't even a question when I was in school. Parents taught the basics, schools taught the three "r's". Are you listening to what your saying here??? You are pushing more and more onto the schools...stuff that belongs at home. If this is the general thought of people in society today, I want the world to stop in its tracks.

 

I think Charles Manson, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Ted Bundy got their moral training in public schools, by the way.

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Originally posted by yes

I think German education is pretty good (just remembered from German class) - after 8 years or so of mandatory basic schooling, the kids get to choose if they're going to a college-type highschool that'll teach them skills necessary for jobs or going to a highschool that prepares them for further education or - i think there was one or two more options.

 

-yes

 

I agree that the German system has some compelling advantages. Among the disadvantages is that once a kid is placed on a particular track, it's very difficult to get off that track. So you're making a decision at 13 that will affect the rest of your life. I'm not sure that's always a bad thing but I imagine there are a lot of people who really have no clue about what they'll most enjoy and/or be suited for in their adult working life.

 

And systems that have tracking -- like Germany or Japan (where I lived and taught English for a year in 3 public high schools) -- depend heavily on performance ratings (including some exams) in elementary and middle school. In Japan your performance in second and third grade will have much to say about whether you attend an academic high school or a vocational school.

 

Of course some might reasonably argue that the same is generally true even in a system like the U.S.'s -- it's a fact that the kids who are doing well in the second and third grades are largely the kids who will be doing well in middle school and high school, and who will go on to a good university. The difference is that in the U.S. that assumption is not built into the system; in theory a student could radically improve and end up doing well later in their school career. In theory.

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Few things:

 

Parents should, but they don't. Perhaps there should be mandatory classes for parents? I mean I agree that they should, and the reason I brough it up above is that I see that most of them don't. I'd be happy to solve the problem by fixing the parents & not the schools - is that really possible though?

 

 

It's true that it's the students' fault if they don't take the opportunity to develop their brains. But like you said, the framework has to be there, and I feel like schools don't provide it at all. There's a lot more to math than just memorizing formulas - there's a world of problem solving, of ways of approaching problems - things that cannot be memorized, but need to be understood. Now, not everybody needs all that, which is why they probably teach material simple enough to be learned by memorization. So i guess my point is - if you're going to teach math, do more than formula monkeying, and since some people don't need it at all, it shouldn't be mandatory. If the choice is between somebody who knows no math at all & who took the class and vaguely remembers having memorized some formulas i'd prefer option one.

 

Also, being a teen, it's very hard to consciously work on developing your mind, come on. But if your mind is constantly challenged at school (ATTN: mind NOT memory), you're more likely to developing it.

 

But, given the current memorization-based teaching we have, i feel like memorizing more practical things like nutrition is more useful than chem equations.

 

-yes

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Originally posted by Tony

FYI: When I fly large commercial airliners, I always use autopilot. Thanks for your concern.

 

Exactly, autopilot: push a button, and let "the force" do the flying. What airline do you fly with Tony? I'll make sure I start racking up the frequent flyer miles! Can we do some emergency landings? On water? I've always wanted to use my floatation device.

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I guess I wish schools developed the brains instead of memories - the emphasis should be on the thinking/analyzing/creating process, not on useless memorization.

 

First of all, yes, if you read even some of the posts on this board, I can't imagine that you can believe that schools are spending enough time on math and literacy. I understand that there are learning and reading disorders, but the numbers of posts with abysmal grammar, spelling, word use, and punctuation is appalling. Surely there can't be that many LD people all of a sudden. I've been reading boards for several years now and it's gotten worse rather than better.

 

All they need as a base for that is a brain that can analyse, solve problems, be creative, etc.

 

There is a whole field of research dealing with how the brain learns. Certain ages are optimum for people to begin learning certain skills. In fact, in teaching you math and reading, schools ARE teaching you to learn. The missing piece is neither health care nor philosophy; it's music. Science is showing that children who learn music do better academically in all other areas. Learning music seems to help 'wire' the brain better.

 

Yes, i think philosophical qns like meaning of life should be brought up in classrooms

 

Teachers scramble to teach the existing curriculum as it is. It still falls on deaf ears. I'm astonished at how people don't even know basic geographic facts. I agree that more focus on the basics is needed.

 

But all gym teachers do is - here, play some volleyball.

 

Children are getting fatter and fatter. We know that good lifetime habits can be ingrained in childhood. Get kids to enjoy exercise when they're young and they might continue and, as we all know, exercise is even more important to fitness than diet.

 

I guess I wish schools developed the brains instead of memories - the emphasis should be on the thinking/analyzing/creating process, not on useless memorization.

 

You miss the point. You are not just memorizing; you are learning ideas, theories, formulas that you then must apply in different situations. This in itself is a basic thinking skill; one of the most critical ones, in fact.

 

The whole point is that you have been given skills to learn. You've been introduced to libraries and to the internet. You can now use those skills to find out anything you want rather than wait to be spoon-fed it.

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I'm pushing more onto the schools because I don't see a way of changing the parents, and also because a lot of what the schools currently do seems useless to me (i.e. excessive memorization), so why not instead use that time to make up for the poor quality of parenting in this society?

 

-yes

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Teachers scramble to teach the existing curriculum as it is. It still falls on deaf ears. I'm astonished at how people don't even know basic geographic facts. I agree that more focus on the basics is needed.

-----

 

You say yourself that it falls on deaf ears. So perhaps instead of dropping tons of information on these deaf ears that won't be heard, we should drop things that WILL be heard - sure it's not ideal, but it may be more useful!

 

 

Children are getting fatter and fatter. We know that good lifetime habits can be ingrained in childhood. Get kids to enjoy exercise when they're young and they might continue and, as we all know, exercise is even more important to fitness than diet.

-------

 

Oh, talk to Ryan about this. He'll tell you all about playing volleyball not being sufficient at all. Besides, kids DO play all these sports at school, and still are getting fatter and fatter. Time to drop the McD diet, maybe?

 

 

 

You miss the point. You are not just memorizing; you are learning ideas, theories, formulas that you then must apply in different situations. This in itself is a basic thinking skill; one of the most critical ones, in fact.

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I wish! I've been to highschool - all you have to do in most classes is memorize and reproduce what the teacher did on the board. No application in different situations - unless changing x to y counts.

 

Mind you, some memorization IS necessary, i'm not pushing for extremes here, but saying that schools currently overdo it.

 

 

-yes

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If 13 or so is too early to make such a choice is a good question. Even 18 felt like too early to pick a career direction. But, any systems has its pro's and con's - there's no ideal one. It seems to me that this con is worth the pros that the system provides.

 

-yes

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Get kids to enjoy exercise when they're young and they might continue

 

The problem with children is not in getting them moving around....kids are always running around, even the overweight ones. We don't have to convince them to enjoy playtime....they do it spontaneously. Besides, you can't really teach young kids what exercise is - they are too young to understand it and physically too immature to partake in it. The obesity problem lies in dietary factors.

 

we all know, exercise is even more important to fitness than diet.

 

Nah.

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